Too little and too late. Draconian measures are necessary to push automakers into compliance and to push consumers to buy. It's expensive unless we want to sell out to China completely, but necessary and in the end, affordable.
replies(8):
sell out to China completely
Sell what each region is best at. Mutual benefits. Crazy idea right?
In 50 years there will be literally nothing left that China doesn't do better than the west, it would be better to build trust and commerce now than attempt to delay it with artificial borders (tariffs, export bans, &c.), we're just delaying the inevitable and making a (commercial) enemy for no reason
We Europeans have sold tens of millions of cars in China for decades. The string attached was that you had to make a joint venture with a local company (which, by the way, shared the risks and increased the margins).
Why can't they do so the same here?
And I don't want to hear no "because Chinese EV industry got help by government, it's unfair", so what? In Italy alone we've given more than 200B euros to Fiat, which milks governments from Serbia to Poland out of taxpayer money. Tesla has received 16B+ in direct funding from taxpayers in US alone, got more in foreign countries to open plants there.
European and American auto industries shouldn't rely on artificially gatekeeping foreign automakers.
We've tried with Japan in the 80s forcing them to produce here, now it's China.
I don't like any of this, it's against taxpayers, it's against consumers. Free market goes both ways.
Convert public fleets. It's much more reasonable to mandate that local councils and public servant staff cars should be EV-only first; these tend to have short turnover periods of three to five years anyway. That forces the public bodies to actually address the details of adoption.
Not to mention buses and public works vehicles like refuse lorries. Expensive, but if the transition has to happen it has to happen.
But I think the momentum is there on its own:
> In August alone, 154,582 EVs were snapped up, accounting for 20% of all new car sales. Analysts note that a 20–25% share is enough to meet the EU’s emissions targets for 2025–2027 and Europe has just reached that milestone.
There's a self-reinforcing circle that as more people have EVs, they become more "normal", and the more car-centric policy caters to their needs. People who are irrationally scared speak to friends who own one or ride in EV taxis (actually, taxis are nearly always hybrids at the moment?)
> ASML Holding N.V. (commonly shortened to ASML, originally standing for Advanced Semiconductor Materials Lithography) is a Dutch multinational corporation
This is not at all obvious or inevitable. The exact same concerns where voiced when much of the electronics industry moved to Japan 30 years ago, but "Japan doing everything better than the west" never really happened.
China is facing the exact same challenges that made US, EU, Japanese and Korean industry stumble before: Your own success raises wages and living standards, which inevitably decreases competitiveness. China still has a lot of catching up to do (in living standards/median income) and despite that it already struggles in some sectors to compete with countries like Vietnam or Indonesia.
Tesla was somewhat different. People bought Teslas not for their promised "self driving" capabilities (I know no Tesla driver that took those promises at face value or got the FSD option FWIW), but one motivation was to "stick it" to snobbish arrogant european manufacturers wanting to develop "clean" ICEs with "green fuels" or other non-sensical crimes against thermodynamics like H2-cars.
Now, Tesla (and the US in general) has a brand toxicity problem, and it is worsening. People I know that would consider a Tesla some years ago now drive electric VWs or BWMs or KIAs, often times much more expensive cars than the comparable Tesla 3 / Y model.
This trend will probably continue the next years, and I don't see a way for Tesla to repair the brand image.
I think what we are seeing is that electric car interest isn't as strong as governments hoped for. I used to own an electric car now I'm back to a hybrid.
Q4 sales in the US will be interesting because of the removal of the tax credits and the increasing electricity prices that AI is causing. Low prices of fuel in the US means that it's not exactly cheaper to run an electric car in the US.
They .. ARE?
Dacia Spring is essentially a Chinese EV from Renault's joint venture with eGT New Energy Automotive.
VW's Cupra Tavascan is made in China and is the product of VW's joint venture with Anhui Jianghuai Automobile Group.
And many EU EVs that are of domestic design and production use Chinese developed and manufactured powertrains and batteries.
EU EVs are using more and more Chinese tech.
EU tried that with Russia, then we were dependent on oil/gas, and somehow the dictatorial regime fscked us on Ukraine, and now all of us are wasting so much more time and money.
Everybody already knows China is going to invade Taiwan. The global chip market is not going to like that, and this will happen only because we played the good guy with a dictator.
And then all of this will be retroactively be seen as aiding and collaborating with evil, again.
"Curse your sudden and inevitable betrayal", again and again.
That's why they were anti-EV for so long, since that threatened their lucrative ICE dominance.
Making cars in Europe is getting near impossible, "draconian" measures mean that indeed no European Automaker will make ICE cars any more, because they will all be bankrupt.
The real problem regulators can't regulate away is that people are not buying EVs, even when manufacturers are selling them at prices where they barely break even.
In France, there is a wide anti-electric campaign. From the "leftist-green" media such as Reporterre, to the right wing ones.
Same for political parties, from the left PCF to the right RN.
It's a battle.
Since they cost less to run and are generally better than the alternative, poor people will appreciate the step up just as everyone else does.
- First they went "camera only", alienating people who knows the tech.
- Then they mocked car industry for so long. It was a necessary poke at first, but they didn't get prepared, and the elephant proved that it can run.
- Then Elon's Trump affair and all the shebang happened.
The broken FSD promises, using non-auto rated parts (and related failures), being negligent of their own errors and acting like they are deaf to the criticism is the cement between the layers.
The German economy can not survive that. There is no "mutual benefit" when what you are doing is an existential risk to the other side.
I don't think that is rational at all. Have you ever looked at vintage car regulations in Europe? There are none, basically-- if your car is old enough, neither accident nor emission mitigation/prevention are required at all.
Why would you expect that this is going to change?
But I believe you're wrong. Lots of startups tackle old problems and succeed.
The best example would be Alan, for health insurance. They're a startup in a traditional field dominated by half-a-century players.
Indy is another example : enterprise accounting is very old. It wasn't industrial, now it is, online.
Decathlon's bikes did destroy old players of this field.
Mistral crushed every French decade-old IT companies in the LLM domain. Etc.
How so? Tesla doesn't produce a compact car by any european standard. Their smallest car, the Model 3, is the same size of a VW Caddy, an utilitary/7s seat Family VAN, bigger than a more refined VW Touran, another 7 seater family van or the popular VW Tiguan, a large (by euro standards) SUV.
You have to start somewhere.
26% growth on 20% pace is incredible market share gains in one year for virtually any market or company.
There are no ICE manufacturers reading this news and genuinely saying, "oh wow, who cares, this is nothing, only started at 20%, next."
There are a few electric-only brands but for smaller vehicles.
Continuing the trend only BEVs would be sold by 2032 which is in line with goals to phase out production of new ICEs.
But yes, also, the naive hope of many politicians was that the huge, thorny issue that is traffic emissions would just resolve itself by everybody magically switching to EVs, because actually effective measures to curb emissions are rather unpopular.
He needed the car to tide him over to a work based EV scheme.
A year later the dealer said he'd be lucky to get £8kfor private sale and that the dealership didn't want the car as had 5 on forecourt already.
He's kept the car and loved it, but 2nd hand EV prices here can be great (or bad if you are a seller) - I saw a 10year old Nissan Note EV for £1K the other day - if I already had a charger I would have snapped it up, even if the range was less than 50 miles now.
It wasn't (just?) a compliance car. It was a testbed for EV development by VW. The ID Models have had serious software problems, the ID.7 is the newest and best one. An even smaller car than the ID.3 was announced some weeks ago.
For example, according to this source, people bought less BEVs in May because... they want to benefit from the government subsidy later this year. So maybe the headline will read "incredible success" six months after having read "terrible failure". [1]
Surprisingly, BEVs are _more_ visible in the country side (where many smaller models make complete sense as a "second car" for a household that needs to drop kids at school, get the groceries, etc...) than in cities. Never mind.
Even more surprisingly, people do buy some French EVs, even though, well... our glorious national brands have spent the last few years working hard on removing the knobs from the autoradio, and that justified all the "R&D tax rebate" they could get, but sadly none was left for chemists and physicists to increase range, lower prices, etc... Again, go figure.
[1] https://www.go-electra.com/fr/newsroom/ventes-voitures-elect...
Also, given that polluted air affects poor people the most, getting rid of all that exhaust of old worn out cars with ICEs will be a good thing in any case.
https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2025-half-year-euro...
This gives a much much more nuanced look, and it doesn't look as completely clear cut as the headline implies.
For example: Spain saw an increase of 83.9% and France a decline of 6.9%
... And then you see that Denmark bought as many EVs as spain, although Spain has 10x population.
It is not Trumpian completely insane tariffs applied without thought. It is a scalpel applied to ensure fair competition.
Not detecting overturned semis, road debris, and swerving to road dividers is even more impressive with that tech.
Where a relatively simple radar can prevent without running a slow-motion camera rig and a wannabe supercomputing cluster on the car.
To be frank, I'm not against 2000 FPS cameras, but I can't come into terms with not adding a simple radar to detect something unknown is dangerously close and the land missile needs to stop.
As the middle class shrinks it becomes clearer that these sort of heavy handed policies are almost exclusively peddled by what marx would call the bourgeois. You don't see the "my car is a significant expense" or "home ownership isn't a given" class people going off advocating for policy like this on minor issues.
I don't know about reporterre though, I've heard of them but I don't think they really have any influence on anyone other than Greenpeace afficionados.
Also? The R5 is great, and I bet the backlog is really long.
To quote the article: Analysts note that a 20–25% share is enough to meet the EU’s emissions targets for 2025–2027 and Europe has just reached that milestone.
BEVs are like the best consumers imaginable for our grids. Their owners get hourly contracts and perfectly time their charging when the prices are low helping stabilize the grid.
Some even grid companies even support adding cars charging to the ancillary markets further increasing grid reliability - while also paying the BEV owners for their service.
Taking in the supply chain from producing oil, refining it and transporting it the change in electricity consumption is negigible because especially the refining step is quite electricity intensive.
But if no refining happens in a market then something like a 20-30% increase in electricity usage is expected.
Please do tell me how that entails a "collapse"?
2000 can be good for doing multiexposure and maybe detecting fine movement, but assuming that everything running 2000FPS (and processing 16000 frames/sec) is not a simple thing, esp, if you're running in an uncontrolled and chaotic environment.
Then why are they not doing it? Isn't it in the national interest? Why not create a US company that makes EUV machines like ASML does? Why is there only one company in the world capable of doing it if they are "just steppers"?
btw what is used now in EUV machines are step and scan scanners and ASML builds the whole EUV scanner system (stages, metrology, controls, system integration). Scanners replaced steppers for leading edge nodes.
Oh and Cymer is owned by ASML from 2013, so it’s ASML's own US light source business working with TRUMPF (Germany) for the CO2 drive lasers.
Fine, so maybe you think this is too much. But 10x this still gives you 14cm between frames, at what is already speeding in most jurisdictions I know of.
2000 FPS seems to my untrained eye like a problem, not a feature.
I can't immediately find reference to them licensing from Sandia, although I do see a mention of a collaboration with LLNL.
How'd you work this out and can you link a resource or publication?
Most of the world is playing catch up with Norway (97% EV market share) - if their grid will handle the transition then it is possible. If it will not then others will prepare better.
Not that surprising; countryside folks own houses and can charge at home for cheap, while city dwellers generally can't and have to use overpriced, inconvenient public charging.
The ID.3 was never sold in the US (too "small"), so you wouldn't have seen it in CA.
The ID series is a ground-up electric platform with a lot more space inside. The e-Golf is just a Golf with a (poor) electric engine and battery bolted on.
Of course not at all engaging with the point about BEVs acting like demand response for a grid. Scheduling their charging to not add more load when the grid is already strained, unless forced to do so due to e.g. being on a roadtrip without possibility of timing the charging and therefore paying a premium for expensive electricity.
All in all I see a lot of hand waving and little substance.
Did you miss the portion where on average the refinement of raw crude to gasoline/diesel is neutral in terms of electricity usage compared to just driving a BEV?
TSMC (taiwan) is the only company that has reached the latest and greatest chips tech. Apple gets their chips from Taiwan only. AMD. Intel. Everyone.
Taiwan does not let TSMC export the latest tech, exactly because they would lose USA protection.
...basically it's a 160B$ industry with something like 70% of the global output, as per last year data.
Now imagine Taiwan blowing up the industry to prevent China from controlling it, or China destroying the industry to crash the global economy, weaken the USA protection and come back a few years later.
China will not be affected much by the sudden non-existence of Taiwan Chip industry. They produce everything internally. The rest of the world would be thrown 5+ years back in terms of tech, and I don't even want to know how much it will take to ramp up older production elsewhere.
Remember the problems caused by Covid, where the car industry had problems getting chips? That was a mere shift in who gets the chips first, the production was still there.
70% less global chip production? Buy a cars/computers/whatever as soon as China invades, it's going to last you for a while.
That price range for Ford and Chevy trucks or SUVs for example are outrageously luxurious by comparison (not even considering their additional utility).
https://www.blogordie.com/2023/09/hw4-tesla-new-self-driving...
So all the European societies need to be forced and pushed with draconian measures and punishments, while racist excuses are made for why other groups are exempt from these climate punishments.
It is textbook abusive guilt shifting of narcissism. It’s not like most politicians are not grandiose, especially the ones who not only think they are some form of special one’s chosen by God, but have even just effectively declared themselves to be the only God they need (i.e., some form of external regulation). Talk about peak grandiose narcissism, this time with robots and AI.
Tesla was different because it was no gas-guzzling V8 behemoth that takes at least 20l/100km like what you used to associate with "US cars".
For one, cars old enough to be without emissions or safety equipment are becoming more rare, to the point that they are now worth a significant amount of money. Anything that is currently in that grey, "pre-classic" area is already a very complicated machine that is very hard to maintain without OEM spares and support. Anything newer is designed from the ground up to hit a specified lifetime then get ground up into flakes for recycling. Opinions vary on the positive outcomes of this.
For two - regulations are constantly changing. Many cities have low-emissions zones. The EU is making significant changes to their vehicle end-of-life laws.
"Poor people" are not going to be maintaing classic old cars as a cheap form of transport, like some rose-tinted view of Cuba. They already lease brand-new cars.
Pretty much world-wide. The cost of new cars has risen several times faster than inflation for at least a few years now.
Which have inflated one size/class bigger than they used to 25 years ago.
The people who now drive these kind of cars today used to drive A6, BMW 5 series and E-Class Mercedes Benz. Cars lass/segments have slided both in size and luxury over a few decades.
If you look at car sales number you will see that the cars that sell the most are in the small and compact segment categories. Here is the top10 in Q1 in Europe:
Rank Model Units Sold Manufacturer Segment
1 Dacia Sandero 42,913 Renault Group Supermini
2 Citroën C3 34,064 Stellantis Subcompact
3 Peugeot 208 33,821 Stellantis Supermini
4 Volkswagen Golf 33,663 Volkswagen Group Compact
5 Renault Clio 31,754 Renault Group Supermini
6 Dacia Duster 31,217 Renault Group Compact SUV
7 Volkswagen T-Roc 30,949 Volkswagen Group Crossover
8 Volkswagen Tiguan 29,733 Volkswagen Group SUV
9 Toyota Yaris Cross 29,226 Toyota Motor Europe Crossover SUV
10 Peugeot 2008 28,072 Stellantis Subcompact SUV
This of course does not answer the question about which draconic measures the car industry should be subjected to.
Additionally, long delays can be for other reasons than high demands.
This study https://www.oecd.org/content/dam/oecd/en/publications/report... (page 95) sees nowhere near 5 fold increase of particles from tire wear with EVs, for lightweight EVs you get a significant reduction in overall particle emissions.
While you're at it, you can also imagine an alien invasion. You would have to be out of your mind to destroy your country's economy on purpose this way. Did Hong Kong destroy its financial sector when it was politically overtaken by China? China depends on the global economy, it needs to avoid any crash because it is an exporting country. This argument is so irrational that I really don't know where people are getting it from. This is a total misunderstanding of Asia in general, Taiwan, Chinese culture, economy and geopolitics.
> China will not be affected much by the sudden non-existence of Taiwan Chip industry. They produce everything internally.
Of course they will! In 2024 China imported $385 billion worth of integrated circuits.
About the process in court in German: https://teslaanwalt.de/autopilot-als-sicherheitsrisiko/
What do you mean by "sees"? I'll bet you that you can't walk around wearing a VR headset running at 25 FPS for more than 30 seconds without violently emptying your stomach. Trying to watch a movie on a display that doesn't exhibit motion blur also makes me motion sick.
Human brain doesn't see in terms of frames at all. There's a limit where an increase in FPS likely becomes imperceptible to most people but that limit is at least 10 times higher (from personal experience), likely more.
Eh? Most European manufacturers (maybe not Stellantis) had at least one BEV by the time any Tesla was available in Europe. I'm not sure any European manufacturer has ever released a production hydrogen car? That's mostly Toyota.
And where did you get this 1 year per tire metric? I see anecdotal reports that on EV with normal tires they last as long as on typical ICEs. I can't find any comprehensive report for either side for now.
Nobody cared that the build quality is "a little worse" all around because it doesn't meaningfully affect the vehicle's fitness for purpose like the internet comment sections will pretend it does.
As long as the vehicles were meaningfully different in other ways, those other ways were the dominating variables in the equation that make/break the purchase decision. Only when all else is within spitting distance of equal do Nth order variables like "muh door feel" and upholstery texture and speculative comments about reliability long after it's projected to replaced (gotta throw that one in there for the Toyota fanboys) start mattering....because they don't actually result in a seriously different ownership experience for the average user and the average user knows this.
I see quite the opposite trend tho.
Hybrids are great this is where the push should have been. Dacia is doing really great in Europe. The old manufactures are again not in the loop. Dacia rebranding is quite something[2] their new Duster/Bigster line looks super cool and modern. The market is already starting to slowly shift less digital more analogue[3]. The whole TV screen cockpit, piano black plastic, AI everywhere is monstrosity its atrocious this is not luxury its grotesque.
[1] - A negative emission internal combustion engine vehicle? - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S135223102... [2] - 2024 All-New Dacia Duster: Reveal Video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QtOa7cP6MQ [3] - Hypercar Boss Chat! Fixing Jaguar, Horsepower Wars & More… | 4K - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6lAhRqHmuw&t=329s
A typical commute of 50km/day at 20kWh/100km means you have to put 10kWh into you car (per day). A 230V outlet can deliver 3,7kW at 16A, so your car would be topped up again after about 3h.
Tesla Supercharger prizes at 20kWh/100km are in the same ball park as Diesel at 5l/100km. Charging at home should approach half that, and charging with PV will amount to <2€/100km.
What you originally said is that there is little variance along any dimension.
What you're saying now is there is variance along different dimensions and different people care about different dimensions.
This is also what the original comment that you replied to said: build quality is bad (Dimension A), people were willing to accept it due to being an EV (Dimension B).
BMW in cooperation with Toyota has/had H2 cars (currently iX5), but it is some sort of pilot phase.
Tesla with their model 3 and supercharger network demonstrated that electric vehicles indeed are viable, and that got the ball rolling.
First one is dependent on the manufacturing process, and the second one is dependent on your sensor size.
Currently, the leading sensor manufacturers (namely Sony Semiconductor and Canon) are doing very low noise sensors. However, to get both these low noise levels and convincing images needs full frame sensors, at least. APS-C can somewhat close, but it can't be there (because physics).
Even in that case, you can't do 2000FPS and get meaningful images from every one of them.
There's no way that a Tesla car cam sports full frame or APS-C sensors.
So, it's physics.
Because ASMR is doing fine by keeping its stuff out of the hands of the Chinese Communist Party.
Operating on US soil, in US jurisdiction under US laws.
They had a stepper manufacturer, Silicon Valley Group (SVG), and ASML bought it, that's how ASML got the EUV license from the US.
Yeah Model 3 base is £40k for claimed 323 miles, or £45 for 436 miles.
BYD Dolphin is £30k for claimed 265 miles. Dolphin Surf (which is a lot smaller than a Model 3) is £19, £22, £24k for 137, 200, 193 miles.
I guess £22k for 200 mile range is not as bad as I was expecting actually. But still you can see why people who can afford it would still buy a Tesla. (Or an equivalent not sold by a twat.)
That's a case by case basis and not valid blanket-wide over everyone in every city on the whole continent. Outside of HN bubble, not everyone lives in big cities with high speed rail, underground subways or working remotely in small villages with amazing bicycle paths
A lot of tier 2 cities are heavily underdeveloped in that regard and need a car for commute to work outsider or inside the city, unless you wanna spend 1-2+ hours/day, each way, on public transit switching and waiting on buses since such cities sprawled out and grew in size a lot, but public transit infra is still stuck in the 90s with slow busses and no trains. Car ownership is still the only way you can have some free time between work, sleep and commute.
When you manufacture something which computes, power consumption and internal noise improvement is more drastic with improved manufacturing processes. When you are measuring something, you don't need or want too small pixels or features to begin with.
So having a small gigapixel sensor just because your process allows creates more disadvantage over having a sensor same size with a lower resolution, from light capturing angle. So, low-light sensitivity and resolution is a trade-off.
Back-illuminated sensors used by all contemporary cameras created this leap rather than reducing feature size via improved processes. You already pack the sensor as dense as possible (you don't want gaps or "smaller" pixels w/o increasing resolution either), and moving data/power plane away from pixels is the biggest contributor to noise in the sensor.
See the link [0]. Top left image is full frame, top right is APS-C, bottom left is M4/3, and bottom right is full frame / high-res (60+MP) sensors.
When you look at the images, smaller the sensor, worse the noise performance. When you compare full-size images of top left to bottom right, top left image is better in terms of noise. I selected RAW to surface "what sensor sees" The selected spot is the darkest point in that scene.
You can select JPEG to see what in camera image processing does to these images. Shutter speed is around 1/40s and ISO is fixed at 12800 since it's the de-facto standard for night photography.
> Also you bypassed the possibility of timing multiple sensors separately to achieve 2000fps.
Working on an image which doesn't reflect real world is a bit dangerous, isn't it?
[0]: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison?attr18=low...
Tesla is also leading in the amount of luggage (important for me), however the interior of EU cars looks much better (with exception for model S, which has actual hud, not a wooden plank under the windshield)
Even the "punitive" vocabulary is political and mostly comes from right-wind politicians.
Yes the R5 is great and way cheaper than the mean car price.
I never said that.
What I meant was that once ASML acquired SVG, it also become a US-based operation, which gave them the leverage over Canon and Nikon when acquiring a EUV license from the US gov as it was now also a US company, not just a Dutch one.
Afaik they only seem to operate in France and Belgium not in whole of EU. So how is that a "best example" ?
>Mistral crushed every French decade-old IT companies in the LLM domain. Etc.
Mistral didn't crush anything, Legacy French SW companies are still there doing business.
EDIT: Actually, looks like the eGolf was a few months after the Tesla Model S.
The long tail is long no matter what. Which is why the most robust solutions deploy sensors with orthogonal sensing modalities that can compliment one another. By relying on only one sensor type, Tesla has made it hard for their system overly brittle, which has resulted in avoidable deaths and destruction.
> LiDAR is much slower, more difficult to process
LiDAR in my experience is much easier to process, as the sensor stream is just an array of distances. Camera in my experience is much harder to process, as the sensor stream is an array of RGB values from which you have to infer distances. So by what metric are you alleging LiDAR is more difficult to process?
> sensor fusion adds its own errors.
You'll have to do a degree of sensor fusion across all the camera sensors anyway, so going camera-only don't absolve you of having to fuse sensor streams and come up with a belief. Sensor fusion in general tends to decrease overall system error as more sensors are added.
That the Netherlands adds 500 jobs making EUV machines is a tiny consolation for mass unemployment in Germany, Italy, the Czech Republic, Hungary and France with millions of jobs lost.
Again, free trade is an insane idea when the proposition of one side is an existential threat to the other side.
I'm not trying to diminish EV capabilities btw. I'm just saying that "tire scare" is waaay overblown in media.
Reading your first comment in full, it seems like you actually did, at least that's the impression I got from the wording you used. Then you toned it down and didn’t address the other arguments.
What I meant is that simply giving a license to company Y is not the same as being capable of producing the EUV machines that ASML produces. It's similar to TSMC, anyone can buy an ASML machine, but there is only one TSMC, because it's not just about the machine and not just about the light source.
He is an anti-nuclear troll, randomly posting nonsense about nuclear everywhere he goes. It's always emotionally driven bullshit, crafted to create a reaction.
Just google his pseudo. I wouldn't be surprised if he was sponsored by a foreign agency to destabilize political discourse. Considering he is from Sweden, the potential of Russian influence isn't negligible.
In any case, whatever he says, is at best, extremely idealistic and based on wishful thinking about the true capabilities of renewables (we are still waiting on reliable and cost-effective storage, if that's even possible at scale for European weather patterns).
Like if every OEM sets out to build a car of the same specs, they're gonna all be within spitting distance of each other. You'll have to scrape the bottom of the barrel (i.e. "muh build quality) to find differences.
Tesla was winning before because they were the only ones who set out to build a car of that nature, build quality was a non-issue because it simply isn't an issue. It only became a meaningful one after the fact when more cars of the same sort arrived on scene and people went looking for minutia.
Personally, I don't think media puts enough focus on tyre pollution for all types of cars - 6PPDQ is extremely toxic.
It goes both ways as well. German cars are already suffering in China as tariff retaliation.
China is facing the exact same challenges that made US, EU, Japanese and Korean industry stumble before: Your own success raises wages and living standards, which inevitably decreases competitiveness. China still has a lot of catching up to do (in living standards/median income) and despite that it already struggles in some sectors to compete with countries like Vietnam or Indonesia.
When Tesla came out, its build quality was awful but it succeeded because people wanted EVs.
Now there are EVs that don’t feel like Mattel toys, and Tesla is doing very very badly, in part because its build quality is still very bad which is now a glaring problem in a more competitive field.
You truly are completely out of your depth here. As evidenced by your previous attempt [1] where you didn't know that China so far has finished 0 reactors in 2025.
Not for long though; the EU fleet emmission rules and fines are clear in this regard. If the fossil lobby does not manage to nerf them, no big mfg will build ICE passenger cars for the EU market after 1.1.2035, while since this year the rates got higher and will get higher again in 2030. In some countries ICEs will have only marginal marketshare in a few years already. The manufacturers are preparing accordingly.
Certainly the preferable alternative.
Still going to be far more expensive for being overall larger, higher range, better tech. There's no real ways for Tesla to cut cost without building smaller car (all while Americans are demanding larger model lol).
To start you are comparing wrong segments (premium vs luxury), wrong platform (ice vs ev) and wrong generations (plush shitbox vs self driving sports spacemobile).
Compare to Rivian or Lucid and Tesla is actually cheapest (and yes worst interior).