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Europe's EV sales surge 26% in 2025 while Tesla faces decline

(www.notebookcheck.net)
65 points doener | 13 comments | 23 Sep 25 10:42 UTC | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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anovikov ◴[23 Sep 25 10:47 UTC] No.45345257[source]▶
Too little and too late. Draconian measures are necessary to push automakers into compliance and to push consumers to buy. It's expensive unless we want to sell out to China completely, but necessary and in the end, affordable.
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aurareturn ◴[23 Sep 25 10:51 UTC] No.45345279[source]▶

  sell out to China completely
Let China sell tens of billions of affordable EVs to Europe. Let Europe sell tens of billions of ASML EUV machines and Airbus planes to China.

Sell what each region is best at. Mutual benefits. Crazy idea right?

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porridgeraisin ◴[23 Sep 25 11:39 UTC] No.45345590[source]▶
EUV machines are not europe's to sell. It's all american owned IP and the "EUV part" itself is american manufactured.
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1. pjc50 ◴[23 Sep 25 11:44 UTC] No.45345625[source]▶
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASML_Holding

> ASML Holding N.V. (commonly shortened to ASML, originally standing for Advanced Semiconductor Materials Lithography) is a Dutch multinational corporation

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2. yostrovs ◴[23 Sep 25 12:05 UTC] No.45345799[source]▶
You missed this part in the History section: "In 1997, ASML began studying a shift to using extreme ultraviolet and in 1999 joined a consortium, including Intel and two other U.S. chipmakers, in order to exploit fundamental research conducted by the US Department of Energy. Because the Cooperative Research and Development Agreement (CRADA) it operates under is funded by the US government, licensing must be approved by Congress."
3. FirmwareBurner ◴[23 Sep 25 12:11 UTC] No.45345874[source]▶
ASML just makes the steppers. The EUV secret sauce is made by Cymer in the US and uses US R&D licensed of Sandia Labs. US can always retract the EUV license and sell the Cymer light sources to Canon or Nikon if they wish. ASML has no EU golden goose of its own that's why it has to obey US rules and policies.
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4. lossolo ◴[23 Sep 25 12:31 UTC] No.45346114[source]▶
> US can always retract the EUV license and sell the Cymer light sources to Canon or Nikon if they wish

Then why are they not doing it? Isn't it in the national interest? Why not create a US company that makes EUV machines like ASML does? Why is there only one company in the world capable of doing it if they are "just steppers"?

btw what is used now in EUV machines are step and scan scanners and ASML builds the whole EUV scanner system (stages, metrology, controls, system integration). Scanners replaced steppers for leading edge nodes.

Oh and Cymer is owned by ASML from 2013, so it’s ASML's own US light source business working with TRUMPF (Germany) for the CO2 drive lasers.

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5. 0_____0 ◴[23 Sep 25 12:33 UTC] No.45346136[source]▶
Cymer is now a business unit of ASML.

I can't immediately find reference to them licensing from Sandia, although I do see a mention of a collaboration with LLNL.

How'd you work this out and can you link a resource or publication?

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6. blargthorwars ◴[23 Sep 25 14:35 UTC] No.45347645{3}[source]▶
>Then why are they not doing it?

Because ASMR is doing fine by keeping its stuff out of the hands of the Chinese Communist Party.

7. FirmwareBurner ◴[23 Sep 25 15:05 UTC] No.45348105{3}[source]▶
>Cymer is now a business unit of ASML.

Operating on US soil, in US jurisdiction under US laws.

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8. FirmwareBurner ◴[23 Sep 25 15:05 UTC] No.45348114{3}[source]▶
>Why not create a US company that makes EUV machines like ASML does?

They had a stepper manufacturer, Silicon Valley Group (SVG), and ASML bought it, that's how ASML got the EUV license from the US.

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9. lossolo ◴[23 Sep 25 15:24 UTC] No.45348370{4}[source]▶
SVG didn’t hand ASML a magic EUV license. ASML bought SVG lithography two decades ago to expand in dry/immersion optical litho and US market access. EUV matured later. SVG had momentum in DUV and still couldn't sustain at 193nm while EUV is an order of magnitude more complex. ASML builds the whole scanner and owns the integration IP that makes the parts actually produce yield at scale. The light source matters but without ASML's stages, metrology, optics integration, contamination control, control software etc etc you've got a science project instead of a tool a fab can run. ASML won because the integration problem beat almost everyone else.
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10. porridgeraisin ◴[23 Sep 25 15:57 UTC] No.45348836{4}[source]▶
And it's a JV with DoE meaning all the usual security rules and in practice the dutch are completely firewalled from everything, they don't even have access to the EUV tech.
11. porridgeraisin ◴[23 Sep 25 15:58 UTC] No.45348851[source]▶
Just read further into the history section of the same page, you don't have to be obtuse and post the full form of the company, everyone here knows this. The world is nuanced, and this is not reddit.
12. FirmwareBurner ◴[23 Sep 25 15:59 UTC] No.45348856{5}[source]▶
>SVG didn’t hand ASML a magic EUV license.

I never said that.

What I meant was that once ASML acquired SVG, it also become a US-based operation, which gave them the leverage over Canon and Nikon when acquiring a EUV license from the US gov as it was now also a US company, not just a Dutch one.

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13. lossolo ◴[23 Sep 25 16:43 UTC] No.45349493{6}[source]▶
> I never said that.

Reading your first comment in full, it seems like you actually did, at least that's the impression I got from the wording you used. Then you toned it down and didn’t address the other arguments.

What I meant is that simply giving a license to company Y is not the same as being capable of producing the EUV machines that ASML produces. It's similar to TSMC, anyone can buy an ASML machine, but there is only one TSMC, because it's not just about the machine and not just about the light source.