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388 points pseudolus | 314 comments | | HN request time: 1.584s | source | bottom
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Bukhmanizer ◴[] No.43485838[source]
I’m surprised not many people talk about this, but a big reason corporations are able to do layoffs is just that they’re doing less. At my work we used to have thousands of ideas of small improvements to make things better for our users. Now we have one: AI. It’s not that we’re using AI to make all these small improvements, or even planning on it. We’re just… not doing them. And I don’t think my experience is very unique.
replies(21): >>43486104 #>>43486264 #>>43486456 #>>43487649 #>>43487671 #>>43488414 #>>43488436 #>>43488988 #>>43489201 #>>43489228 #>>43489488 #>>43489997 #>>43490451 #>>43490843 #>>43491273 #>>43491336 #>>43491568 #>>43491660 #>>43492193 #>>43492499 #>>43493656 #
1. baazaa ◴[] No.43488436[source]
I think people need to get used to the idea that the West is just going backwards in capability. Go watch CGI in a movie theatre and it's worse than 20 years ago, go home to play video games and the new releases are all remasters of 20 year old games because no-one knows how to do anything any more. And these are industries which should be seeing the most progress, things are even worse in hard-tech at Boeing or whatever.

Whenever people see old systems still in production (say things that are over 30 years old) the assumption is that management refused to fund the replacement. But if you look at replacement projects so many of them are such dismal failures that's management's reluctance to engage in fixing stuff is understandable.

From the outside, decline always looks like a choice, because the exact form the decline takes was chosen. The issue is that all the choices are bad.

replies(33): >>43488541 #>>43488644 #>>43488809 #>>43488874 #>>43488894 #>>43488954 #>>43489176 #>>43489496 #>>43489529 #>>43489552 #>>43489570 #>>43489702 #>>43490076 #>>43490205 #>>43490296 #>>43491212 #>>43491465 #>>43491538 #>>43491547 #>>43491626 #>>43491950 #>>43492095 #>>43492352 #>>43492362 #>>43492581 #>>43492773 #>>43492829 #>>43492886 #>>43493251 #>>43493711 #>>43495038 #>>43495649 #>>43495778 #
2. WillieCubed ◴[] No.43488541[source]
I don't think the issue is that the West is going backwards in capability; rather, it's that although it has the capability to produce great products (software, media, etc.), it deliberately chooses not to because it's not as cost effective, because the people with expertise are overworked and understaffed, or because management had other priorities (see AAA game development).

In other words, the capitalists won.

replies(3): >>43488707 #>>43489506 #>>43489626 #
3. plondon514 ◴[] No.43488644[source]
In Japan right now and I see a ton of automation everywhere, self checkout at grocery stores and restaurants, but what you also see is a live humanbeing assigned to the machines to help you if you have issues.
replies(2): >>43489037 #>>43489497 #
4. QuadmasterXLII ◴[] No.43488707[source]
that was it even 6 or seven years ago, but the warning signs are there that we’ve chosen not to for so long that the abilities have rotted
5. bee_rider ◴[] No.43488809[source]
I don’t think it is a good standard for judging a civilization, really. But CGI, 20 years ago? A lot of it was really quite bad. CGI has always had bad and good instances because of the interplay between increasing technical skill and totally random director-determined skill at selecting shots.

I mean, like, Disney has been getting worse at CGI, but only because then whole company has given up. This is just normal companies shifting around, though.

replies(4): >>43489736 #>>43489793 #>>43490305 #>>43493282 #
6. SkipperCat ◴[] No.43488874[source]
I feel that the West is backsliding because for the past decade, we've addicted ourselves to social media dopamine hits and we stopped observing the outside world because we've glued our attention to our phones. Seems like this has hit the under 30 group the hardest.

I remember being bored and having to create my own fun. I remember being aware of my surroundings and being curious about it because I didn't have my favorite entertainment media attached to my palm. I remember learning about thing such as what was in my Cheerios because the box was the only thing in front of me when I ate my breakfast.

It would be a joke to say that AI exists to fill the void from what I mentioned above, but it does kinda sorta feel correct in a weird sci-fi conspiracy way.

replies(3): >>43489493 #>>43489737 #>>43491194 #
7. nisa ◴[] No.43488894[source]
My personal theory is that this is the result of an incompetent management class where no self corrections are happening.

In my work experience I've realized everybody fears honesty in their organization be it big or small.

Customers can't admit the project is failing, so it churns on. Workers/developers want to keep their job and either burn out or adapt and avoid talking about obvious deficits. Management is preoccupied with softening words and avoiding decisions because they lack knowledge of the problem or process.

Additionally there has been a growing pipeline of people that switch directly from university where they've been told to only manage other people and not care about the subject to positions of power where they are helpless and can't admit it.

Even in university, working for the administration I've watched people self congratulation on doing design thinking seminars every other week and working on preserving their job instead of doing useful things while the money for teaching assistants or technical personnel is not there.

I've seen that so often that I think it's almost universal. The result is mediocre broken stuff where everyone pretends everything is fine. Everyone wants to manage, nobody wants to do the work or god forbid improve processes and solve real problems.

I've got some serious ADHD symptoms and as a sysadmin when you fail to deliver it's pretty obvious and I messed up big time more than once and it was always sweet talked, excused, bullshitted away from higher ups.

Something is really off and everyone is telling similar stories about broken processes.

Feels like a collective passivity that captures everything and nobody is willing to admit that something doesn't work. And a huge missallocation of resources.

Not sure how it used to be but I'm pessimistic how this will end.

replies(19): >>43489116 #>>43489450 #>>43489478 #>>43489947 #>>43490245 #>>43490642 #>>43490661 #>>43490818 #>>43491877 #>>43491884 #>>43492061 #>>43492066 #>>43492290 #>>43492737 #>>43493477 #>>43494162 #>>43494326 #>>43495162 #>>43501334 #
8. bko ◴[] No.43488954[source]
I was thinking about examples of where things got worse over time. They include some common appliances that use water, due to water use regulations. No reason my dishwasher should take over 2 hours to run. But then there's other things like food delivery.

I used to deliver pizzas in the early 2000s. I would get paid

$4/hour (later bumped to $5 per hour)

$1/delivery (pass through to customer)

+ tips

I had good days / times where I was pretty much always busy and made around $20/hour by the end.

So delivery cost the customer $1 + tip (usually ~$3), cost the business maybe $40 a night (~2.5 drivers for 3 hours), and I made out pretty well.

I can't compare exactly but I feel like today the business pays more, the customer pays more, the drivers get paid less and it's all subsidized by investors to boot. Am I totally wrong on this? But I feel like delivery got so much worse and I don't know where the money is going.

replies(8): >>43489020 #>>43489547 #>>43489652 #>>43489877 #>>43489998 #>>43490199 #>>43492862 #>>43495753 #
9. mym1990 ◴[] No.43489020[source]
Not sure about price comparisons but what I can say is that many experiences feel worse. Paying 50-60$ for 3 tacos to be delivered, going out to basically any restaurant, pricing models on almost any subscription service(Adobe good example).

It’s led me to learn to DIY as much as possible, making my own fun and experiences so to say.

replies(2): >>43489479 #>>43489713 #
10. nicbou ◴[] No.43489037[source]
Japan has a LOT of make-work jobs for the elderly.
replies(1): >>43489210 #
11. baazaa ◴[] No.43489116[source]
While I suspect the root cause is managerial dysfunction ultimately the disease spreads everywhere. I've stopped honing my technical skills because I don't expect to ever work in an organisation sufficiently well-managed for it to matter. So then you end up with the loss of genuine technical expertise from generation to generation as well.
12. throwaway6734 ◴[] No.43489176[source]
The result of boomer cultural and capital domination. Millenials need to grow up and yank power from them, first starting with massive government handouts given to olds
replies(2): >>43489777 #>>43489902 #
13. yoyohello13 ◴[] No.43489210{3}[source]
Isn’t that good?
replies(1): >>43489363 #
14. boringg ◴[] No.43489363{4}[source]
absolutely - far better than any other model I've seen.
replies(1): >>43491186 #
15. fijiaarone ◴[] No.43489450[source]
The cause of an incompetent management class is a subservient worker class. Now a subservient worker class is either that they are incompetent or they don’t have access to capital, meaning that they can’t strike out on their own and leave management to suffer the consequences of their incompetence.
replies(1): >>43518912 #
16. fungiblecog ◴[] No.43489478[source]
this is exactly my experience
17. fijiaarone ◴[] No.43489479{3}[source]
Why bother paying for tacos to be delivered when you can blend the soybean & canola oils yourself and stir in salt, msg, corn syrup, and food dyes yourself and drink it as an emulsified slurry that tastes the same as every restaurant?
18. fijiaarone ◴[] No.43489493[source]
People used to get dopamine hits from writing code that works, fixing cars, climbing mountains, playing music, and asking other people out on dates.

Dopamine addiction isn’t the problem.

replies(4): >>43489536 #>>43489662 #>>43489729 #>>43494832 #
19. giantg2 ◴[] No.43489496[source]
To be fair, the replacement projects we've outsourced to multiple Indian companies have been utter failures too.
20. throwaway150 ◴[] No.43489497[source]
> In Japan right now and I see a ton of automation everywhere, self checkout at grocery stores and restaurants, but what you also see is a live humanbeing assigned to the machines to help you if you have issues.

Isn't that how self checkout happens in every part of the world that has self checkout? I'm failing to see what's special about self checkout in Japan.

replies(2): >>43489624 #>>43490255 #
21. fijiaarone ◴[] No.43489506[source]
Who did the capitalists beat? America wasn’t a socialist utopia 20 years — or even 50 years ago.
22. ergonaught ◴[] No.43489529[source]
I’m sure that’s a factor, however we need to probably also acknowledge that “younger people” (whether developers or managers or etc) lack exposure to things that were genuinely better previously (and where technology is concerned there are many examples), and thus have no mental model for it. They literally don’t know any better, and they’re operating within that framework.

Crude oversimplification: if all you’ve ever known are slow and bloated web app UIs on mobile phones, you’re simply not going to know how to make good design/development choices outside that environment.

replies(1): >>43491321 #
23. SkipperCat ◴[] No.43489536{3}[source]
True, but what you mentioned involves active participation, creation and social interaction. Sitting around scrolling on TikTok feels more like empty calories.
24. rurp ◴[] No.43489547[source]
I'm glad I'm not the only one noticing appliances getting worse across the board. I don't buy enough of them to really know if the trend holds overall but the correlation is pretty much perfect between how new an appliance is and how much I hate it. For example the controls on my new LG washer and dryer are incredible bad. They've made it hard to impossible to just set the run level manually to push you into set programs for bedding or whatever. But they never work right! We've given up on using those programs entirely because they are terrible.

The main culprits I've seen are cheaping out on quality, replacing traditional controls with touch screens or "AI" magic buttons, and squeezing in more monetization streams or adding gimmicky features that actively make the product worse.

Maybe things will turn around someday. There are a few rays of hope, like the touchscreen fad in cars gradually losing its luster, but it seems like we've been on the wrong path for a long time and I'm not sure it will ever correct.

replies(1): >>43489673 #
25. pimlottc ◴[] No.43489552[source]
In many cases, quality is being driven down by automation that’s drastically cheaper and produces results that are deemed “good enough”.

Some of this is inevitable as new products and services move from being high end to mass-market, and it’s perhaps a bit chicken-and-egg to determine whether we accept this because we most people never really cared about quality that much anyway or because we just learn to accept what we’re given.

But it feels like there could be a world where automation still reduces costs while still maintaining a high level of quality, even if it’s not quite as cheap as it is now.

replies(1): >>43489738 #
26. Art9681 ◴[] No.43489570[source]
You're just getting older and looking at the past with rose colored glasses. No one is going backwards in capability. It is about how accessible and cheap the thing is. In the 90's, a license to install Maya or 3D Studio Max, or Lightwave was extremely expensive, those products were not promoted nor available to the general public. They would cost tens of thousands of dollars, for the software alone, not to mention the hardware.

Today it is a commodity. So we are flooded with low effort productions.

With that being said, we have more capability than ever, at the cheapest cost ever. Whether businesses use that wisely is a different story.

There will always be outliers. I see many comments with people who derived value from whatever they perceived as something uncommon and unique they could do. Now AI has made those skills a commodity. So they lose their motivation since it becomes harder to attain some sort of adoration.

In any case, going forward, no matter what, there will be those who adopt the new tools and use them passionately to create things that are above and beyond the average. And folks will be on HN reminiscing about those people, 30 years from now.

replies(4): >>43489580 #>>43490428 #>>43490760 #>>43492946 #
27. yubblegum ◴[] No.43489580[source]
Boeing calls to say hello...
replies(3): >>43489725 #>>43489779 #>>43489869 #
28. OJFord ◴[] No.43489624{3}[source]
Ah, how much you (and we in the west) have to learn! This is the ancient Japanese art of serufuchekkuauto de no ningen no sapōto.
29. baazaa ◴[] No.43489626[source]
AAA games are eye-wateringly expensive though, management aren't imagining it; my point is things becoming more expensive is a symptom of decline. I'm sure the late romans consoled themselves they could build another Pantheon they just cared more about efficiency now.

Where I work in government we've stopped paying for important data from vendors (think sensors around traffic etc.) because the quotes are eye-wateringly expensive. But I've worked in data long enough to know the quotes probably reflect genuine costs, because data engineers are so incompetent (and if it's a form of pricing gouging it's not working because gov isn't paying up). So it looks like we're choosing to be in the dark about important data, but it's not entirely a choice.

Saying we can do stuff but it's unaffordable is imo just another way of saying we can't do stuff.

replies(1): >>43493388 #
30. marcosdumay ◴[] No.43489652[source]
> Am I totally wrong on this?

You are probably getting more, and the difference more than goes entirely into rent.

Real state is destroying the world's economy.

replies(2): >>43493986 #>>43493992 #
31. ◴[] No.43489662{3}[source]
32. throwing_away ◴[] No.43489673{3}[source]
I'm also a software engineer and recently got new LG washer and dryer.

I have not yet figured out how to manually change the settings, as the buttons don't do anything when you press them.

I leave it on "normal" and it seems fine, and surely there is a way to activate those buttons, but I haven't found it.

I could probably install the app on my android device and use it to connect them to wifi, where I could presumably configure them.

Instead, however, I am looking at electronics-free diesel trucks.

replies(4): >>43489929 #>>43491724 #>>43491742 #>>43495956 #
33. hackernoops ◴[] No.43489702[source]
Decline was a set of choices, it's just that the average person didn't make those choices and we're not allowed to discuss them or the people that made them.
replies(1): >>43490763 #
34. jfengel ◴[] No.43489713{3}[source]
The price of a delivery is going to be proportional to the distance, not the cost of the food. The delivery is the same overhead whether it's three tacos or a five course gourmet dinner for eight people.
replies(3): >>43493156 #>>43494155 #>>43510907 #
35. Art9681 ◴[] No.43489725{3}[source]
All I know is more often than not, when I travel by air, I am more than likely going to be in a Boeing aircraft. I also know more planes fly today than ever. So it is no surprise that in a hyper connected world where everyone with a phone and a camera can document every single failure in any service or product, that it would be perceived that things are going backwards. If we had this in the 80's or 90's it wouldn't be much different.

Did our quality and capability get worse or did everyone become a journalist that can document every flaw and distribute it globally in minutes?

Hmmm....

replies(3): >>43489749 #>>43493058 #>>43493067 #
36. jfengel ◴[] No.43489729{3}[source]
We've had TV for decades. Postman wrote "Amusing Ourselves to Death" in the 80s.

We've always been addicted to dopamine and we were always getting it in the easiest way possible.

replies(1): >>43498915 #
37. gtirloni ◴[] No.43489737[source]
Good thing there aren't phones and social media in the East (or whatever you want to call non-West these days).
38. jfengel ◴[] No.43489736[source]
The Pixar division, at least, is extraordinary and continues to push for more.
39. baazaa ◴[] No.43489738[source]
I once found some old price catalogues (early 20c) for shoes etc. and estimated the items there are barely any cheaper today in real terms. Now obviously that's partly because we have cheaper substitutes today, so we've lost economies of scale when building things the old-fashioned way and the modern equivalent has to be made bespoke... but it's still pretty alarming given we should be ~10x richer.

But consider an example which can't be blamed on that. My city (Melbourne) has a big century-old tram network. The network used to cover the city, now it covers only the inner city because it hasn't ever been expanded. We can't expand it because it's too expensive. Why could we afford to cover the whole city a century ago when we were 10x poorer? With increasing density it should be even more affordable to build mass-transit.

Obviously people blame the latter example on declining state capacity, but I'm not sure state capacity is doing any worse than Google capacity or General Electric capacity.

replies(4): >>43490448 #>>43490630 #>>43491328 #>>43491543 #
40. yubblegum ◴[] No.43489749{4}[source]
Hmmm... OK, Airbus calls to say hi, too.
41. hackernoops ◴[] No.43489777[source]
Even worse is the entitlement spending imbalance along racial lines.
replies(1): >>43490723 #
42. anon-3988 ◴[] No.43489779{3}[source]
Yea lets take that flight with airplanes from 30 years ago shall we
replies(1): >>43490099 #
43. 0x1ceb00da ◴[] No.43489793[source]
CGI today is so good that you don't even notice it most of the time.
44. SR2Z ◴[] No.43489869{3}[source]
This is an excellent example. The 737 used to crash a LOT MORE than it does now, and even the version with MCAS is a safer airplane than your average 1990s jetliner (which was also probably a 737, which is kind of my point)[1].

So it's a slightly less safe (in the grand scheme of things) airliner that's vastly more fuel efficient and cheaper to run than any in the past. Obviously this is of no comfort to the families of the people who died in the crash!

But to suggest that Boeing has somehow regressed decades in technical capabilities is just plain wrong.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incident...

replies(6): >>43490090 #>>43490271 #>>43491284 #>>43491896 #>>43491913 #>>43495236 #
45. nradov ◴[] No.43489877[source]
Donald Trump made appliance water use regulations an issue in the 2024 presidential campaign. Of course his opponents mocked him for it, and it probably was a little silly, but the messaging was effective in getting voters fired up about government overreach.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-allies-call-tr...

46. nradov ◴[] No.43489902[source]
Should I take it that you support privatizing Social Security and eliminating Medicare? That probably won't be a winning political platform with any generation.
replies(1): >>43491431 #
47. theendisney ◴[] No.43489929{4}[source]
Maybe a washer can be made without electricity. Have a tank of cold compressed air and use a blow torch to heat it and make new compressed air.
replies(1): >>43490379 #
48. idra ◴[] No.43489947[source]
Sounds like hypernormalisation has now hit the West

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation

replies(1): >>43490345 #
49. maxsilver ◴[] No.43489998[source]
> I can't compare exactly but I feel like today the business pays more, the customer pays more, the drivers get paid less and it's all subsidized by investors to boot. Am I totally wrong on this?

It is exactly that! Food delivery is an excellent example of 'things just got worse'.

In 2019, 'delivery' was a specialty a restaurant would have to focus on to offer. Pizza places (Papa Johns, Pizza Hut, etc) and other specific delivery-focused restaurants (such as Panera Bread, Jimmy Johns, or your local Chinese restaurant) would have actual W2 employees who did delivery driving, as part of their job. The restaurant would want deliveries to go well (for both the customer, as well as the driver), so would make sure their own staff had reasonable access to food, some light training, and would ensure they could deliver it somewhat well. (They would reject orders too far away, they wouldn't serve food that wouldn't survive a delivery trip well, etc)

In post-COVID 2025, "every" restaurant offers delivery, but almost no restaurant still employs their own delivery drivers (locally, Jimmy Johns might be the only one left). Everyone else just outsourced to DoorDash. DoorDash drivers are employees who are 'legally-not-employees' (1099 employees), so they no longer have any direct access to the restaurants, and they can't train well for any specific service, because they might have to visit any-of-50 restaurants on any given day, all of which have entirely different procedures (even if they are the same brand or chain). Restaurants have zero incentive to ensure deliveries go well (the drivers aren't their employees, so they no longer care about turnover, and customers have to use DoorDash or Uber Eats or equivalent, because almost every restaurant uses it, so there's no downside to a DoorDash delivery going bad).

Prices to consumers are double-to-higher than what they were in 2019, depending on the restaurant. Wages are down, employment security is entirely eliminated. Quality and service have tanked.

Presumably, investors make slightly more money off of all of this?

replies(4): >>43491144 #>>43491822 #>>43493916 #>>43495011 #
50. kaycey2022 ◴[] No.43490076[source]
The west isn’t capitalist any more. Sure the number goes up but at what cost
replies(1): >>43492615 #
51. sidewndr46 ◴[] No.43490090{4}[source]
When you look at how type acceptance works, all Boeing planes are going to be a "737". When you actually look at the 737 MAX and compare it to earlier aircraft, it's pretty obvious that they've created a whole new aircraft. Hence MCAS trying to pretend like that didn't happen & dead people.
replies(1): >>43490453 #
52. bronco21016 ◴[] No.43490099{4}[source]
Check the registration on the next aircraft you take a ride on ;)

30 years may be a stretch but 20-25 certainly isn't.

replies(1): >>43490728 #
53. woah ◴[] No.43490199[source]
The money is going to the driver's rent.
54. mjevans ◴[] No.43490205[source]
I suspect a key to success is:

Don't replace an existing solution with exactly the same thing on a different platform.

Think larger. Solve today's / (near) tomorrow's problem's BETTER. That's probably going to require changes to process too. A full evaluation of what's the most effective way with the capabilities and needs that exist now.

Then bring up interfaces that provide what the old system did, verify the data round trips, and when it's approved cut over.

55. roenxi ◴[] No.43490245[source]
> Something is really off and everyone is telling similar stories about broken processes.

There are people out there who are pretty conflict-avoidant by nature, and any group tends to pretty significant levels of cohesion because of it. There are some classic stories out there about when it goes particularly bad and spirals into a bad case of groupthink.

In the economy there are supposed to be some slightly cruel feedback mechanisms where companies (effectively big groups) that get off track are defunded and their resources reallocated to someone more competent. The west has been on a campaign to disable all those feedback mechanisms and let companies just keep trudging on. We've pretty much disabled recessions by this point. A bunch of known-incompetent management teams have been bailed out so they can just keep plodding along destroying value. There is not so much advantage in being honest about competence in this environment, if anything it is a bad thing because it makes it harder to take bailout money with a straight face.

I cite the Silicon Valley Bank collapse as an interesting case study. A looot of companies should have gone bust with that one because they were imprudent with their money. They didn't.

replies(2): >>43491094 #>>43493519 #
56. klausa ◴[] No.43490255{3}[source]
Anecdotally, the staff:machines ratio is much lower here than I've seen in Europe or US, and they also just pay more attention, and are more proactive (you'll get staff at Muji making sure that you're aware that you can't check out tax-free).

The staff will also instantly materialize if they are needed to confirm you can buy alcohol, or there is some kind of problem; which is also not my experience elsewhere.

It's not a worldshattering difference, but it is noticeable.

replies(2): >>43490422 #>>43493504 #
57. gcanyon ◴[] No.43490271{4}[source]
Thanks for that list/link. It's so easy to forget how awful the past was.
58. dgfitz ◴[] No.43490296[source]
> releases are all remasters of 20 year old games

This just isn’t true. It’s not nice to make things up.

replies(2): >>43491249 #>>43496704 #
59. tbyehl ◴[] No.43490305[source]
Anything from 20+ years ago that someone still thinks holds up as great CGI probably wasn't CGI in the first place.

The problem with CGI today is that it's over-used and mis-applied in areas that still have Uncanny Valley type issues (fight scenes, car chases/crashes, etc).

60. no_wizard ◴[] No.43490345{3}[source]
Holy moly. This lead me down a quick read to this gem[0]:

> Aladdin (Asset, Liability and Debt and Derivative Investment Network)[1] is an electronic system built by BlackRock Solutions, the risk management division of the largest investment management corporation, BlackRock, Inc. In 2013, it handled about $11 trillion in assets (including BlackRock's $4.1 trillion assets), which was about 7% of the world's financial assets, and kept track of about 30,000 investment portfolios.

For any one firm to have this much director and/or indirect assertion over the world’s financial assets is ripe for problems of all sorts.

Seems rather indicative of the general consolidation of power and decline of social equality across the west

[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aladdin_(BlackRock)

replies(1): >>43490436 #
61. _heimdall ◴[] No.43490379{5}[source]
Look up the Wonderwash. It basically looks like a small propane tank on an axle that you manually spin to wash your cloths. It works surprisingly well for washing cloths without electricity.
replies(1): >>43494094 #
62. plondon514 ◴[] No.43490422{4}[source]
Exactly, In my local pharmacy in NYC there is no attendant specifically for the self-checkouts, it's usually someone floating around or the same person doing manual checkout. In Japan the person is very present, willing to help, and says thank you very much, which also prompts me to say thank you in return.
replies(1): >>43490756 #
63. mitthrowaway2 ◴[] No.43490428[source]
But for example Toy Story (1995) had a budget of 30 million. Today's Disney box office flops have budgets closer to 250 million.
replies(1): >>43490521 #
64. simpaticoder ◴[] No.43490436{4}[source]
BlackRock is the ultimate moral hazard.
65. mitthrowaway2 ◴[] No.43490448{3}[source]
I often wonder the same thing. My conclusion has been that automobile infrastructure swallowed the budget.
replies(1): >>43490721 #
66. ◴[] No.43490453{5}[source]
67. jkaptur ◴[] No.43490521{3}[source]
I think that’s the rose colored glasses again. What made you choose Toy Story as an example rather than Waterworld or Cutthroat Island?
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68. mitthrowaway2 ◴[] No.43490584{4}[source]
Because the thread was discussing CG becoming a commodity and Toy Story was the first thing that popped into mind for 90s CG; I have a vague recollection that it was the first feature-length full-CG film.

I only checked its production budget while writing my comment.

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69. typewithrhythm ◴[] No.43490630{3}[source]
Melbourne specifically is cooked by the rate of growth, and declining tax revenue per capita.

When we funded the majority of the big infrastructure pushes our rate of growth was lower, and gdppc (and revenue/PC) was exploding. This generally ended with the start of big multicultural Australia policy in the late 60's.

So in comparison, the amount of infrastructure we need to build is greater per capita, as it has to try to cover the future population predictions, it needs to be done over less years as well.

Then we can get into the migration policy that's causing a decline in gdppc.

replies(1): >>43491178 #
70. forgotoldacc ◴[] No.43490642[source]
One big problem is becoming a manager is seen as the end goal, and pay often reflects that.

Being a great engineer or researcher doesn't pay. You won't get your name known for your work. All your achievements will be attributed to whoever manages you at best, or attributed to the corporation above you with not a single human name at worst.

People like being recognized for their work. Every great achiever wants to have their name remembered long after they leave this world. Everyone wants to be the next Isaac Newton. The next Bill Gates. The next Steve Jobs. The next Elon Musk. It's a constant downhill path from being known for using your brain and busting your ass to discover or create something, to being known for managing someone who created something, to being known as someone who bought the company that managed people who created something. Motivations are all fucked up. No matter what you discover or create these days, there's a feeling that you're not going to have your name written in history books. Your best options are join a grift or manage someone who's doing the hard work.

replies(1): >>43494933 #
71. somenameforme ◴[] No.43490661[source]
I think a way to sum this up is simply metric optimizing. As organizations and companies grow larger the need to evaluate people at scale becomes necessary. And so metrics are used, and people then naturally start to optimize around those metrics. But it seems to invariably turns out that any sort of metric you create will not effectively measure progress towards a goal you want to achieve, when that metric ends up being optimized for.

The traditional term for this is cobra effect. [1] When the Brits were occupying India they wanted to reduce the cobra population, so they simply created a bounty on cobra heads. Sounds reasonable, but you need to have foresight to think about what comes next. This now created a major incentive for entrepreneurial Indians to start mass breeding cobras to then turn in their heads. After this was discovered, the bounty program was canceled, and the now surging cobra farm industry mostly just let their cobras go wild.

I think the fundamental problem is that things just don't work so well at scale, after a point. This is made even worse by the fact that things work really well at scale before they start to break down. So we need a large economy that remains relatively decentralized. But that's not so easy, because the easiest way to make more money is to just start assimilating other companies/competitors with your excess revenue. Anti-trust is the knee jerk answer but even there, are we even going to pretend there's a single person alive who e.g. Google (or any other mega corp) doesn't have the resources to 'sway'?

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive

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72. ipsum2 ◴[] No.43490692{5}[source]
You're illustrating his point, that you're using survivorship bias to cherrypick good CGI movies from the 90s.
replies(2): >>43490882 #>>43492934 #
73. ◴[] No.43490712{5}[source]
74. baazaa ◴[] No.43490721{4}[source]
Definitely this is what was happening mid-century (when indeed everyone else was ripping out their tram networks entirely).

But I think if you look at modern light-rail projects there really has been such insane cost-inflation it wouldn't be worth covering the city with trams even with a much bigger budget. Also because such a large fraction of the price is admin etc., it creates a bias towards more expensive infra (heavy rail) because the paperwork overhead is similar either way so you get more bang for your buck.

75. somenameforme ◴[] No.43490728{5}[source]
Counter-intuitively this is especially true with international flights... The main stressor for a plane is not like a car, where it's miles driven/flown. Its in pressurization/depressurization. And so a plane doing domestic skips an hour or two away will wear out way faster than one doing transatlantic trips, and so you're more likely to see the shiny new plane on a short domestic trip than on a big international one.

Incidentally this also applies similarly to risk issues. The biggest risk in a flight is not in flying, but in takeoff/landing. This is why the commonly cited deaths/mile metric is not only misleading but completely disingenuous by the people/organizations that release it, knowing full well that the vast majority of people don't understand this. If some person replaced their car with a plane (and could somehow land/take off anywhere), their overall risk of death in transit would be significantly higher than if they were using e.g. a car. 'Air travel being safer than cars' relies on this misleading and meaningless death/miles statistic.

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76. galaxyLogic ◴[] No.43490756{5}[source]
But in Trader Joe employees are curiously happy, and it seems genuine. I wonder why that is? Some other grocery stores nearby employees are grumpy. Why?
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77. somenameforme ◴[] No.43490760[source]
This is a tangent, but I don't think the cost of things like 3DS or Maya were ever major barriers to entry. They were widely available for 'free' download. I think the companies involved were basically using this as what would eventually become the modern 'free for entities with less than $xxx annual revenue' license as there was seemingly less than 0 effort to ever enforce their copyrights. To say nothing of the countless commercial books available for both, which simply would not have had a market if it was only selling to people who had real licenses for the software.
78. galaxyLogic ◴[] No.43490763[source]
Someone has to shout out: Empteror has no clothes!

In recent years lying has been normalized. Black is White etc. 1984 is here.

79. whatever1 ◴[] No.43490818[source]
This started when companies decided that labor is fungible.

The moment you admit failure as an employee, you are out of the company. And no for most people it is not easy to find a job that will not disrupt their lives (aka move cities, change financial planning, even health insurance).

So employees do what they have to do. They will lie till the last moment and pretend that the initiatives they are working on are huge value add for the company.

In the past you knew you would retire from your company, also the compensation differential was not that huge across levels, so there was little incentive to BS.

Today everything is optimized with a horizon of a financial quarter. Then a pandemic hits, and we realize that we don't even know how to make freaking masks and don’t even have supplies of things for more than a week.

replies(1): >>43492008 #
80. mitthrowaway2 ◴[] No.43490882{6}[source]
Actually, I picked the first CGI movie from the 90s, and it just happened to be good and very cheap.

But more importantly, the other half of my point was that $250 million ought to be enough to pay for a high effort production. It's not like "well Blender is free now so of course theatres are flooded with amateur CG films since their production has been commoditized".

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81. jimnotgym ◴[] No.43491094{3}[source]
I think one issue that exacerbates this is concentration of wealth. This has created such a demand for financial assets that their price is ridiculous, no matter how bad the management of those companies is.
replies(1): >>43492144 #
82. jimnotgym ◴[] No.43491144{3}[source]
Probably not the investors, but the Private Equity managers always win
replies(1): >>43507492 #
83. jimnotgym ◴[] No.43491178{4}[source]
Since the beginning of Australia as a colony it has been: more people=more labour=more production capacity=more wealth.

So did we just run out of useful things to do with people? Or did we concentrate the wealth away from the masses and blame the same immigration that created Australia in the first place?

replies(1): >>43491463 #
84. jimnotgym ◴[] No.43491186{5}[source]
Far better than UBI?
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85. meander_water ◴[] No.43491194[source]
This is largely the conclusion drawn in Stolen Focus by Johann Hari (well worth the read). Although he argues not just in the West, but across the world.
86. whoknowsidont ◴[] No.43491212[source]
>But if you look at replacement projects so many of them are such dismal failures that's management's reluctance to engage in fixing stuff is understandable.

This is most definitely still the fault of management.

87. theshackleford ◴[] No.43491249[source]
Yup. It’s just nostalgia huffing and increasing age.
88. Seattle3503 ◴[] No.43491278{3}[source]
I think there is something to the idea that there are roo many too large firms doing abstract work. People have become detached from their impact.
replies(1): >>43492170 #
89. oxfordmale ◴[] No.43491284{4}[source]
The problem isn't that Boeing is less safe; it is that the company's culture shifted to the extent that technical staff could no longer report perceived safety issues.
90. andai ◴[] No.43491321[source]
I don't think that's the reason.

If it were necessary to have seen something to know it's possible, nothing would ever improve, and nothing new would get made.

91. andai ◴[] No.43491328{3}[source]
What declined is will, which is a function of testosterone (down about 50% since 1970).
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92. laszlojamf ◴[] No.43491333{6}[source]
This is really interesting! Never thought of that. Do you have a source for these facts?
93. throwaway6734 ◴[] No.43491431{3}[source]
As a first step I'd prefer to see both of them dramatically more means tested. There's no reason that someone with millions of dollars of assets should be receiving thousands of dollars a month from the state. I think this position is politically tenable with the looming cuts that will happen automatically over the next decade
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94. typewithrhythm ◴[] No.43491463{5}[source]
No, we really did not have a history like that remotely. It's a bit alarming to see a historical fact states so completely incorrectly.

We had a hugely restrictive immigration policy, (have a look at the rate of growth over time) followed by multiple wars that meaningfully reduced the population... We were winning the Malthusian game, just by having lots of resources per person available.

The policies you have probably heard called "white Australia" were more accurately understood as immigration restriction policy. If you read anything published at the time, there was only slightly less animosity for white english migration as the rest of the world. This was the era of communism and workers rights, and the workers absolutely understood that their labour was being devalued.

95. arkh ◴[] No.43491465[source]
> Whenever people see old systems still in production (say things that are over 30 years old) the assumption is that management refused to fund the replacement.

The problem is not refusing to fund replacements. The problem is refusing to fund maintenance.

A lot of managers in old school business were sold on IT as a tool. And tools? You buy them, use them and replace only when they break. Maintenance is minimal and you sure don't evolve them.

That's how you get couple decade old software chugging along, being so key to operations everything you want to add has to be aware of it and its warts which will then infect what touches it. And replacement projects cannot work because usually they mean changing how things are done.

But 20 years of rot are a symbiosis between users and tools:

- some tool does not allow a workflow, so users manage and find a workaround

- there is a workaround so next version of the software landscape cannot break it

- people want to do some new thing which is not in the software, changing it could break the previous workaround. So either people don't do the new thing or adapt and create other workarounds

Multiple rounds of this and you have a fossilized organization and IT where nothing can be easily changed. The business cannot adapt. The software cannot be modified to allow adaptation because it could break the business. Now a new competitor emerges, the business is losing and that's when everyone starts blaming everyone for the problems. But in reality? The cause is 20 years ago when some management decided to add IT as a cost center.

My solution to this problem? Create your own competitor and kill the old business.

96. milesrout ◴[] No.43491521{7}[source]
But it wasn't very good. It was good for the time but if something of that quality came out today it would be a joke.
97. puzzlingcaptcha ◴[] No.43491525{3}[source]
Perhaps corporations should be organized like terrorist cells then.
98. carlmr ◴[] No.43491538[source]
>But if you look at replacement projects so many of them are such dismal failures

The problem with replacement projects is when and why they're usually started. They're usually started once there's a fixed deadline on some technology ceasing to exist, creating the appropriate urgency.

Usually the people that wrote that original software have long gone, the last few people that were able to maintain it are also nearing retirement age or already gone as well, you have some ancient technologies used for which it's hard to get documentation on the internet today.

Now you're tasked with writing a replacement, and everything that doesn't work on day 1 is deemed a failure. It might have worked if you started earlier. Because if your original codebase is COBOL and assembly written for mainframe, it's really hard to find anyone that can understand what it does fully and rewrite it now cleanly.

If you had updated from COBOL and mainframe assembly to C, and from C to 90s Java, and from 90s Java to modern Java/Go/Rust/Node, you'd have plenty of institutional knowledge available at each step, and you would have people that know the old and the new world at each step. Jumping half a century in computing techonology is harder than doing small jumps every 10-15 years.

99. ViewTrick1002 ◴[] No.43491543{3}[source]
I would say it is because of the Baumol effect.

Construction is not massively more efficient today compared to a century ago, while salaries have massively increased.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect

100. Cthulhu_ ◴[] No.43491547[source]
> Go watch CGI in a movie theatre and it's worse than 20 years ago

Objectively this isn't true as CGI technology has improved by leaps and bounds (think e.g. subsurface skin scattering in new vs old Gollum), however there's a lot of other factors at play; old CGI used film tricks to make it blend better, new CGI uses full CGI and digital whatsits and doesn't care anymore. It also depends on budget and what studio takes care of it. Good CGI is invisible, and there's a number of non-superhero films where the CGI just isn't visible / you're not even aware of it. Anyway, what 20 year old CGI are you thinking about, and what are you comparing it with? I'm thinking The Spirits Within (2001) or Beowulf (2007); the former did not age well, the latter was already panned as having poor CGI when it came out. Avatar (2009) pushed the frontier again I think.

> go home to play video games and the new releases are all remasters of 20 year old games because no-one knows how to do anything any more.

This is a blinkered view of reality; there's thousands of game developers outside of this bubble, from single person developers making modern classics like Stardew Valley or even Minecraft when it first came out, to teams of developers that are bigger than those that made the games of 20 years ago.

Also, your opinion isn't fact; in the top 20 best selling games of 2024 [0] there is only one arguable remaster (GTA 5, which is on its 3rd remaster) and two complete remakes (FFVII Rebirth and CoD 3), with the former being a completely different game compared to the original. I share your cynicism about the "top of the line" video game market today, but you're not correct.

(meanwhile I'm playing 2007 video game (Supreme Commander))

[0] https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/2024s-best-selling-games-in...

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101. physicsguy ◴[] No.43491587{7}[source]
It was the first full CGI movie but others had been using it before that, Jurassic Park used a mix of CGI and puppets for e.g.
102. bloqs ◴[] No.43491626[source]
What's happening with the games and movies is investment has figured out through the decades is that taking big risks often does not pay off, and that 25 to 45 year olds are the biggest consumer group.

Broad changes in the distribution of wealth, and government spending on education sharply declining, levels of critical thinking and open-mindedness have declined.

So now, if something can be made thats part of an existing franchise or consumer favoured products, then thats lower risk. It attracts more capital. Full on remakes again and again with idiots generally accepting bad games on nostalgia value means sales even of a bad game remain palletable.

I dont think the west is going backwards in capability, but people seem incapable of highlighting what has changed

103. ahartmetz ◴[] No.43491724{4}[source]
You can avoid buying crap with obfuscated UIs... mostly.
104. mmierz ◴[] No.43491742{4}[source]
I have an LG washer/dryer as well. On mine, you need to rotate the large central knob by one "click", then the buttons start to work.

Why? No idea.

105. MaPi_ ◴[] No.43491747{6}[source]
Sure, replacing the car with a plane for your grocery shopping would be probably more dangerous, but do you have any data at what distances do the risks flip?

When I see those statistics I think about flights like Austria to Finland and I imagine that is indeed safer by plane.

106. Cthulhu_ ◴[] No.43491822{3}[source]
And on paper the idea for services like Doordash was good - 3rd party delivery company so the restaurant doesn't have that liability, staff, or investment, delivery people aren't working for just one store so they have more work if the one restaurant is quiet, etc.

But since it's all investor and profit driven for the bigger company, costs get cut on every side.

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107. lotsofpulp ◴[] No.43491833{6}[source]
My theory is the mid scale full service grocery stores with huge footprints and multiple specialized departments is on the way out.

They are stuck with expensive legacy union employee contracts, while smaller and more efficient operations like TJs and Aldi and Lidl and Costco and Walmart and Winco eat all the consistent low margin sales, leaving the big grocery stores with only volatile high margin sales.

People per household has been trending down for a long time, which also impacts the amount/variety of cooking.

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108. lotsofpulp ◴[] No.43491869{4}[source]
Land owners and old people are single biggest recipients of government benefits. Specifically, Social Security and Medicare, and the legal/police apparatus for ensuring protection of property.

Also, traveling and routing utilities and police and ambulances and all of society around a larger plot of land costs (in time and energy and materials) at least a power of 2 more than a smaller plot of land.

Not only are there are no marginal tax rates for land value tax, but there are tax breaks for elderly, caps on tax increases the longer the land is owned, and tax deferrals (such as 1031 exchange).

I will leave it to the reader to figure out which “tribe” is most represented amongst land owners. And old people receiving Social Security and Medicare.

replies(1): >>43492716 #
109. choeger ◴[] No.43491877[source]
I can confirm nearly everything you say, and I'd like to add that it's a cultural phenomenon. We don't seem to value competence anymore. I cannot recall when I've heard someone say something positive about another person's competence. Be it a craftsman, industry worker, knowledge worker, or even a teacher. There doesn't seem to be any value in doing a good job.
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110. ekianjo ◴[] No.43491879{7}[source]
30 millions was nowhere cheap in the 90s. I guess inflation makes things look this way.

In the same timeframe Jurassic Park cost twice more to make and it was a very expensive movie at the time.

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111. bsenftner ◴[] No.43491884[source]
This crisis, which it is, is caused by the unrecognized necessity for effective communications within science and technology and business, which is not taught. Not really, only a lite "presentation skill" is taught.

Fact of the matter: communications is everything for humans, including dealing with one's own self. Communications are how our internal self conversation mired in bias encourages or discourages behavior, communications are how peers lead, mislead, inform, misinform, and omit key information - including that critical problem information that people are too often afraid to relate.

An effective communicator can talk to anyone, regardless of stature, and convey understanding. If the information is damningly negative, the effective communicator is thanked for their insight and not punished nor ignored.

Effective communications is everything in our complex society, and this critical skill is simply ignored.

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112. ekianjo ◴[] No.43491896{4}[source]
This is an excellent example of design failure. So in reality, yes, Boeing has regressed as 90s Boeing would never have released a plane like that.
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113. dragonwriter ◴[] No.43491899{7}[source]
> People per household has been trending down for a long time

It was, but 2021-2024 was the first three year period that didn't end lower than it started since the 1960s (starting and ending at 2.51 average per household); it is possible that trend has arrested.

114. uppost ◴[] No.43491913{4}[source]
The market is very wrong if that's the case you can get rich easy buying BA at a discount. Please do!
replies(1): >>43498620 #
115. KaiserPro ◴[] No.43491950[source]
> Go watch CGI in a movie theatre and it's worse than 20 years

Sorry but thats just not true. Sure there are shit VFX films, but I guarantee that the "serious" movies that people hold up as "all in camera effects" have hundreds of shots with digital set extensions and all sorts of VFX magic.

If you look at TV, where there has been huge competition, the use of VFX has exploded, mainly as a cost saving, but also as a story enhancer. stuff that would have cost £20m ten years ago is being done for £500k. Thats huge innovation.

> remasters of 20 year old games because no-one knows how to do anything any more

They are remasters because the people putting the money up are conservative.

Innovation is happening, just not where you expect. Look at the indy games market.

Much as I don't like it, but a huge amount of innovation is happening in the world of youtube and tiktok. New editing styles, almost a complete new genre of moving picture has emerged.

Where there is competition, there is innovation.

116. hansmayer ◴[] No.43492008{3}[source]
Great points. I was also shocked to see on an example recently that even basic computer literacy is gone. We visited a couple of friends of ours recently. And as things go, at some point they (non-tech folks) asked me to help them with some printer settings on their new laptop - I am sure we all had experienced this many times over. So they pass me the notebook, not connected to power source. I noticed the battery was low and ask for the adapter to connect it. I proceed to tell them it was not a good idea to let the notebook battery go so low and that they should operate it on battery only when they don't really have access to power supply. The response - they had thought, they way you use a notebook was analogous to the mobile phone, i.e. you charge it up then use it all the way until the battery drops low, then rinse and repeat, etc. The smartphones have ruined our society in more ways than one.
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117. AnthonyMouse ◴[] No.43492061[source]
> My personal theory is that this is the result of an incompetent management class where no self corrections are happening.

This is really a cultural problem that has infected management along with everyone else.

It used to be that you were expected to be able to fix your own car or washing machine, and moreover that one you couldn't fix would be rejected by the customers. It was expected to come with documentation and be made of modular parts you could actually obtain for less than three quarters of the price of the entire machine.

Now everything is a black box you're expected to never open and if it breaks and the manufacturer doesn't deign to fix it you go to the store and buy another one.

The problem with this is that it poisons the well. Paying money to make the problem go away instead of learning how to fix it yourself means that, at scale, you lose the ability to fix it yourself. The knowledge and infrastructure to choose differently decays, so that you have to pay someone else to fix the problem, even if that's not what you would have chosen.

The result is a helplessness that stems from a lack of agency. Once the ability to do something yourself has atrophied, you can no longer even tell whether the person you're having do it for you is doing it well. Which, of course, causes them to not. And in turn to defend the opacity so they can continue to not.

Which brings us back to management. The C suite doesn't actually know how the company works. If something bad happens, they may not even find out about it, or if they do it's through a layer of middle management that has put whatever spin on it necessary to make sure the blame falls on the designated scapegoat. Actually fixing the cause of the problem is intractable because the cause is never identified.

But to fix that you'd need an economy with smaller companies, like a machine with modular parts and documented interfaces, instead of an opaque monolith that can't be cured because it can't be penetrated by understanding.

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118. amadeuspagel ◴[] No.43492066[source]
If only people were allowed to start their own companies.
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119. whearyou ◴[] No.43492082{3}[source]
Agreed. Don’t know how we balance decentralization with the planetary civilization/economy’s complexity, which requires some kinds of centralization.

That’s doubly difficult because the complexity is what lets the system produce so much output, and if you produced less people would experience that as having less and would riot. The only way out would be if the whole society consumes less, including, visibly, the elites. Feeling taken advantage of is a far more powerful force on the non elites compared to, up to a point, their material ups and downs.

Trump’s ability to create a widely accepted narrative focused specifically on elites who are opposed to his power, but also who are doing extra well relative to the non elites, is what let him harness the raw force of wage stagnation et al for political power

120. anovikov ◴[] No.43492095[source]
Look at space and it was obviously broken 20 years ago in the West: Shuttle that finally proved itself, after 20 years of trying to conceal it, to be a generational, unfixable mistake - and stubborn insistence on pushing through with a replacement based on same technology and same people - burning billions while staying stuck.

Now it is in the best shape ever and progress seems to be unstoppable. And West throughly dominates it in every dimension and that dominance seems to only be accelerating.

Boeing just failed in what was an inherently unfair game: they tried to compete with state-funded Airbus that could just burn unlimited cash not worrying about real profitability, Boeing tried doing it by cutting costs, and failed.

121. MaKey ◴[] No.43492117{3}[source]
I do it. This week I congratulated a dentist on his great job at a gum transplant. I love it when people are highly competent at their profession.
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122. AnthonyMouse ◴[] No.43492144{4}[source]
It's basically the other way around. The companies that are enabled to grow without bound are the cause of concentration of wealth, not the result of it. Who are the billionaires? The early shareholders in megacorps.
123. a_bonobo ◴[] No.43492170{4}[source]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation

>Karl Marx's theory of alienation describes the separation and estrangement of people from their work, their wider world, their human nature, and their selves. Alienation is a consequence of the division of labour in a capitalist society, wherein a human being's life is lived as a mechanistic part of a social class.[1]

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124. corimaith ◴[] No.43492197{4}[source]
To be fair, charging your notebook at 100 all day is going to degrade the battery pretty quick. Using it unplugged until it's low is actually the correct procedure.
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125. johannes1234321 ◴[] No.43492234{3}[source]
You can start your own company, but in today's world you are immediately in a global competition. Not only in software, but also many forms of production a Chinese 3d printed thing will be shipped cheaply to your customers, for many services one competes with cheap labor ...

You got to offer good quality and stand out, which isn't easy without capital.

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126. beowulfey ◴[] No.43492263{3}[source]
>Paying money to make the problem go away instead of learning how to fix it yourself means that, at scale, you lose the ability to fix it yourself.

This is very insightful and, in my mind, a good preview of what is happening with AI right now. We will forget how to use the skills that built these systems in the first place.

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127. __oh_es ◴[] No.43492290[source]
I would caveat with its not affordable to be passionate anymore. The top engineers (mech, chem, civil, etc) I know work in finance or consulting instead of doing things they care about.

Closer to tech, I feel we have had a big influx on non-tech joining the tech workforce and the quality has suffered as a result of a lack of fundamentals and passion

replies(1): >>43492375 #
128. disgruntledphd2 ◴[] No.43492319{4}[source]
> But since it's all investor and profit driven for the bigger company, costs get cut on every side.

These services basically don't work with Western level wages. The economics are just not there.

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129. bluGill ◴[] No.43492326{4}[source]
Is your dentist competent or good at making you think he is? you shouldn't see your dentist enough to know.
replies(1): >>43515093 #
130. corimaith ◴[] No.43492352[source]
At least in terms of media, profits are higher (due to increasing mainstream acceptance rather than opionated subcultures), budgets are also higher (hence more risk), so why put in the effort? It's not the West, same thing is happening in Japan, even in places like mass produced literature and Webtoons in China & Korea. Gacha games/Live-Service unfortunately is alot more profitable for less effort than an ambitious single player game like BG3. Then there's also poignant quote by the Square Enix CEO that any sort of investment into media needs to be compared to with the opportunity cost of just investing in the S&P500 instead. It's not enough to just be profitable, you need to make at least 2x/3x over that 5 year dev time to break even.

So alot unfortunately is a choice that consumers have made. Even in terms of media again, alot of modern viewers watch media more as self-insert fantasies, so quality of writing or novelty is often going to worthless or even detrimental to them. I don't believe that mindset, but having talked to many on /a/, /v/ or reddit, there's many who are just there to consume rather than actual interest.

replies(1): >>43493349 #
131. chii ◴[] No.43492362[source]
> Go watch CGI in a movie theatre and it's worse than 20 years ago, go home to play video games and the new releases are all remasters of 20 year old games because no-one knows how to do anything any more.

None of the things you said are actually true. Only superficially, because you've only seen those mass market crap.

Good movies are still around, and yuo don't even notice the CGI, because they're cleverly done. For crap like the recently released snow white, it's obvious that the CGI is badly done - it doesn't make it an indictment against all movies released of late!

Same with games - just because there's lots of AAA studio flops that look terrible, doesn't mean the medium is all terrible. There's so many good indie games that you can never truly play them all.

But if your exposure to these products are only the mass market crap, then you might certainly feel that way.

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132. no_wizard ◴[] No.43492375{3}[source]
>Closer to tech, I feel we have had a big influx on non-tech joining the tech workforce and the quality has suffered as a result of a lack of fundamentals and passion

In the web development community there is a near linear correlation between the number of “influencers” who sell courses that pray on this influx to make money and the influx of such folks.

I miss the days where developers generally had a passion for this work vs seeing only a big paycheck, though without artificial barriers we should have expected a lot of influx of people given how well it generally paid for a long time

133. hansmayer ◴[] No.43492395{5}[source]
Well, no. It seems to be something that spilled over from the smartphone usage patterns. Because for notebooks which are plugged in, the notebook is supplied from the power network and the battery gets charged only if necessary, by applying intelligent logic. For example my Legion notebook only charges the battery when it's below a certain threshold. Think this is by now the case even with the most low-end notebooks. Plus the non-linear nature of consumption on a developer notebook makes the battery as power supply for serious work un-reliable. Try running a few database containers in your local environment while sitting in a one-hour conference pair-programming with video on and tell me how far you get with that 100% charged battery ;)
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134. KvanteKat ◴[] No.43492406{8}[source]
Correcting for inflation (I used this tool by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics: https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm), 30M USD in nov. 1995 would have a purchasing power equivalent to roughly 62M USD in feb. 2025. This is below half the budget of Moana 2 (150M USD, released in nov. 2024) for instance.
replies(1): >>43495170 #
135. bluescrn ◴[] No.43492581[source]
> Go watch CGI in a movie theatre and it's worse than 20 years ago, go home to play video games and the new releases are all remasters of 20 year old games because no-one knows how to do anything any more.

Even more glaring is TV shows, where you now get an 8-episode 'season' every 2-3 years rather than the old days of 20+ episode seasons every year, often non-stop for 5 or more years.

It's not so much about capability/competence as pushing production values to unsustainable levels. You could get away with much less expensive VFX, sets, and costume when filming in standard definition. Now every pixel is expected to look flawless at 4K.

Another more controversial factor is that everyone brings their politics/activism to work and injects them into everything that they do. Now everything has to be pushing for social change, nothing can just be entertainment for the sake of entertainment.

replies(2): >>43492755 #>>43498057 #
136. sloowm ◴[] No.43492615[source]
This is the absolute opposite take of what is actually happening. We are in the most capitalist time ever. There are a few people who own all the wealth, 2 of them are also in control of the most powerful government. This is capitalism baby, enjoy the full wrath.
137. bluescrn ◴[] No.43492656{4}[source]
This was inevitable, now that people are growing up with touchscreens and app stores. 'Content consumption devices' rather than proper computers. And so much digital content competing for their attention.
138. snozolli ◴[] No.43492702{4}[source]
You're also competing with multinationals that can exploit tax loopholes and attract tax incentives and grants.
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139. ogogmad ◴[] No.43492716{5}[source]
Your use of the word "tribe" suggests you mean Jewish people, whether or not you realise that.

[EDIT] Understood, thanks. It's more like some people could mistake the intention.

replies(1): >>43492742 #
140. zosima ◴[] No.43492737[source]
This is it. There is a mass-hypnosis in the west where reality at best is being completely ignored and at worst actively treated in a very hostile manner.
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141. lotsofpulp ◴[] No.43492742{6}[source]
I find tribe to be a more accurate word than “race”, which is some ever changing confluence of skin tone, ancestry, and other difficult to pin down characteristics.
142. disgruntledphd2 ◴[] No.43492747{4}[source]
> What declined is will, which is a function of testosterone

That's a really interesting claim. Do you have any sources that explain this further?

replies(1): >>43507300 #
143. ngetchell ◴[] No.43492755[source]
Is that a change? George Lucas certainly brought his politics around Vietnam to Star Wars. The 70s were a very radical and political time for movies
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144. snozolli ◴[] No.43492765[source]
Good movies are still around

Compare 1997 to today.

Major hit after major hit was being released that year, and they were overwhelmingly original and creative. There had been a boom in independent filmmaking and many of the big production houses had started up smaller studios to attract the talent. Unfortunately, Hollywood did what Hollywood does and killed everything that made them good.

Nowadays, we have endless releases of super hero sequels that are, fundamentally, the same movie over and over. We have endless remakes and reboots because nobody wants to take a chance.

Yes, you can find creativity if you look hard enough, but in 1997 it was everywhere, and in your face. You can't pretend that it doesn't matter or that it doesn't mark an enormous shift in culture (business and society).

replies(2): >>43494165 #>>43494217 #
145. eppp ◴[] No.43492767{5}[source]
Who have also captured regulators and politicians and use them to cement their advantage by making things too costly and difficult for new startups to compete.
146. jose-incandenza ◴[] No.43492773[source]
I believe it's not related to capability, but to how investment works. Aggregate demand is composed of consumption and investment (I'm referring to the global economy, combining both public and private expenditure). Investment is the money extracted by capitalist actors in the system that is reinvested to generate profits. These capitalist actors need an incentive (the promise of generating more money) to invest the money they have extracted, and this incentive is usually the latest hot technology.

For example, when the internet emerged, everyone wanted to be online; when smartphones appeared, everyone wanted to have an app; and when VR emerged, Facebook changed its name and lost half of its value in the stock market. Now, it's AI. Capitalists do not focus on the details of the technologies; to them, every new technology looks the same. They see new tech as a growing opportunity and old tech as a saturated market. Obviously, this perspective is flawed, but it doesn’t matter.

In my opinion, AI is not going to create more value. The only real impact it will have is reducing the amount of workforce needed to generate that value, which will ultimately push the economy into a recession. As consumption declines, I don’t see what new technology could come after AI to offset this effect through further investment.

147. robertlagrant ◴[] No.43492829[source]
> go home to play video games and the new releases are all remasters of 20 year old games because no-one knows how to do anything any more

People do, but they aren't in AAA studios. They're doing indie games, because their large corporations were captured by the professional glom-onto-success management class.

148. ◴[] No.43492833{8}[source]
149. gmac ◴[] No.43492862[source]
> They include some common appliances that use water, due to water use regulations. No reason my dishwasher should take over 2 hours to run

I don't think this is a great example, because saving water (and thus the energy needed to heat the water) is both a social good and a private good.

Your new dishwasher program might take longer because, for example, (a) it's more efficient to soak residues than keep blasting away at them, but it takes longer and (b) if you alternate between shooting water at the the top and bottom drawers (but not both at once) then you can get away with using half the water, in twice the time.

Most dishwashers have an 'express' programme that uses more water and energy to finish faster, so if that matters you can still have it. If it doesn't matter to you (e.g. because you're running the dishwasher overnight, or while you're at work), you and everyone else benefits from the greater efficiency.

So I think this is an unambiguous improvement. :)

The average quality of appliances is a separate question. Anecdotally, I finally had to replace a 22-year-old Neff dishwasher. I got a new Bosch one (same firm, different logo), and have been pleasantly surprised that the new model is still made in Germany, seems pretty solid, washes well, and is guaranteed for 5 years.

150. exe34 ◴[] No.43492886[source]
> if you look at replacement projects so many of them are such dismal failures that's management's reluctance to engage in fixing stuff is understandable

This makes it sound as if management only decide whether to engage in modernizing or not. I think it's only fair to also give them full credit for the failures - profit over people, dogma over pragmatism, etc is their fault.

151. ◴[] No.43492890{6}[source]
152. ristos ◴[] No.43492934{6}[source]
There does seem to be a sort of sampling bias thing that I've only recently noticed, that I think does come from being older now. I started to get back into old retro games I used to play, and I can't help but realize how many games back then were really bad, like not worth playing at all, and I just cherry picked the good ones. And being older, I'm not into gaming anymore, or really much of a consumer at all besides essential goods, being younger you do consume more entertainment products, like games. So I think there's definitely some sampling bias going on here where things look like they're getting worse. Or it could be both things, like it could actually be getting worse, but also not as much as it looks like because of this sort of sampling bias thing. Like having to have multiple accounts, like a Switch account plus some special Switch account and/or another account to play a game, or you buy a game and then there's an online store as well, or you buy a game in person but you can't get a copy digitally, or you buy a digital copy and you can't get a physical copy made for you for a flat fee, or that increasingly people don't actually literally own things anymore and it's all subscriptions or some sort of permission to use, or that a lot of games are just remakes of older games, or that you can't play single player offline, or that you can't transfer or give your digital game that you "bought" and "own" to someone else (less it be a physical copy, obviously), etc.
replies(1): >>43493024 #
153. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.43492946[source]
If it's a commodity why is everything worse in quality? Commodification doesn't explain drop in objective metrics like performance, security, and complexity. It doesn't even explain the decline in stuff like customer satisfaction.

I don't think talent is the problem either. There's a lot more talent now than in the 90's.

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154. stuartjohnson12 ◴[] No.43492956{3}[source]
I read Moral Mazes recently and what it describes is not a lack of communications skill, to the contrary, the incentives created by managerial social hierarchies place very high praise on difficult communications skills such as the ability to fluidly support contradictory positions on different issues, the ability to manipulate symbols and euphemism to justify necessary actions, the understanding of what makes others in their management circles feel good.
replies(1): >>43493200 #
155. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.43492971{4}[source]
Maybe thst people didn't want to nitpick the most expensive film of its time? We can compare Waterworld to The Force Awakens if you wish, I suppose.
156. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.43493024{7}[source]
I mean, I see no issue with comparing high profile old games with high profile new games. The thing is thst there's less high profile bad games becsuse... Well, back then when you put in that money you werre trying to go for quality, I suppose.

It also was because development budgets were microscopic compared to today, so a bad release from a dev team of 5 people and 12 months won't bomb as badly as a 500 person 5 year "blockbuster" release. So yeah, Superman 64 was laughably bad but didn't sink a company the way Condord or even a not-that-bad game like Saints Row would.

Economy is different, as is the environment. There's still quality, but when a game flops, it's a tsunami level flop and not just a painful belly flop.

157. SecretDreams ◴[] No.43493058{4}[source]
QC hasn't scaled with volume and robustness introduced by better engineers (now retired) has been peeled back by juniors and managers that didn't understand the designs in the first place and are chasing mass and profit instead.
replies(1): >>43493432 #
158. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.43493067{4}[source]
Our capabilities didn't get worse. Management caused a shift in culture to make things worse by cheaper. We call it enshittification these days, but it'd decades in the making.

All this discussion assumes that Boeing engineers didn't catch this stuff and weren't banging the alarm bells over how these completely failed inspection. The problem was the people in power ignored it. This is an entirely social issue constructed by business demands, not one lacking expertise nor standards.

159. akoboldfrying ◴[] No.43493089{3}[source]
> Now everything is a black box you're expected to never open and if it breaks and the manufacturer doesn't deign to fix it you go to the store and buy another one.

Do you own a PinePhone?

Or do you own a higher-spec, more familiar iPhone or Android that can't be opened up?

It's the second one, isn't it. Who made you choose it?

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160. InDubioProRubio ◴[] No.43493100{3}[source]
The management caste was afraid like the devil of holy water that aidealised, socialist society machinery from beyond the iron curtain could produce products better, longer lasting and superior in all aspects. The system people imagined up until the 80s was something similar to atomic heart- and that was what drove systemic competition. It drove quality, it drove investment, it protected the state against subversion and destructive ideologies like liberalism - because the state was the big protector against the thing with even more state. The systemic competition.

Capitalism needs a deadly threat to be good.

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161. teeray ◴[] No.43493104{5}[source]
I think most charging controllers have decided that holding charge around 70% while plugged in is best.
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162. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.43493114{5}[source]
But it worked 20 years ago. That's the issue. We didn't get worse at driving and (apparently...) we didn't get poorer over the last few decades to pay for stuff.

Cost of living from the fallout of '08 simply skyrocketed and most of the country didn't not increase compensation to make up for that. Despite that company simply charged more while cutting costs at the same time. So the driver and the customer lost out.

replies(1): >>43494320 #
163. manishsharan ◴[] No.43493151{4}[source]
Also most of the buyers prefer to buy from their preferred vendors. Good luck trying to get on that list. Your products will have to be priced at a fraction of your competitors for them to even evaluate you.

My employer buys a crap load of crap stuff from Broadcom just because the procurement is easy.

164. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.43493156{4}[source]
It really isn't these days. Ordering tacos down the street has the exact same extra costs as me ordering Burger King across town. Same "service fee", same delivery fee, driver isn't tipped more or less (just the expected % of your order).
165. BOOSTERHIDROGEN ◴[] No.43493165{4}[source]
What you are trying to say? Can you be more explicit.
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166. pc86 ◴[] No.43493192{5}[source]
DoorDash is just a means to extract revenue from users, contractors, and restaurants and give it to the owners of DoorDash. It's not a sustainable business and I'm not convinced it was ever intended to be. COVID was a fluke that made it hang around a lot longer than it otherwise would have.

Edit: ooo someone's mad I don't like DoorDash

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167. bsenftner ◴[] No.43493200{4}[source]
What you're describing is the opposite end of the spectrum, those that do understand communications and language to the degree they can appear to fluidly support contradictory positions, but they are in fact operating at a higher communications level and spinning circles around those less adept in communications. They are masterful language and perception manipulators, in a strategic game of corporate dominance.
replies(1): >>43494017 #
168. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.43493205{6}[source]
Maybe GP hasn't seen UBI at scale. I sure haven't. Maybe one day.
169. nradov ◴[] No.43493214{4}[source]
That's not going to happen so you can forget about it. Means testing entitlement programs has been tried before and never got much political support from any generation or political party. It's unwise to create incentives for old people to be poor because then workers will be less likely to also save for retirement in their own separate private accounts.
replies(1): >>43493445 #
170. Telemakhos ◴[] No.43493251[source]
> Go watch CGI in a movie theatre and it's worse than 20 years ago, go home to play video games and the new releases are all remasters of 20 year old games because no-one knows how to do anything any more. And these are industries

Maybe arts shouldn't have been industries. Look at sculpture or painting from the Renaissance and then postmodern sculpture and painting and you'll see a similar decline, despite the improvement of tools. We still have those techniques, and occasionally someone will produce a beautiful work as satire. We could be CNC milling stone buildings more beautiful and detailed than any palace or cathedral and that would last for generations, but brutalism killed the desire to do so, despite the technology and skill being available. There's something to industrialized/democratized art being sold to the masses that leads to a decline in quality, and it's not "because no-one knows how to do anything any more." It's because no one care nor wants to pay for anything beautiful, when there are cheaper yet sufficient alternatives.

171. calvinmorrison ◴[] No.43493264{3}[source]
> > My personal theory is that this is the result of an incompetent management class where no self corrections are happening.

> This is really a cultural problem that has infected management along with everyone else.

Because every time a natural correction happens, the government bails them out

172. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.43493282[source]
>I mean, like, Disney has been getting worse at CGI, but only because then whole company has given up.

I think that's the main point, yes. There's a sense before that companies were trying to push the envelope. These days it's just a shrug and cynical minmaxing of funds to the shareholders. CGI 20 years ago was objectively worse but you can tell they had way to hide the flaws or redirect the eye away from them. Now... Ehh, who cares? Just get the first pass through.

If you want a relevant example: some people say Lili and Stitch's life action has a weird looking stitch model. Part of thst is because way back in 2005, the original Stitch was simply never meant to be looked at in a side profile for an extended time. Art directors made sure to avoid that angle in every frame they drew. 20 years later... meh. Ship it. Screw the outsourced CGI trying to model something better, the cinematography begin careful of angles, nor any reaction from "nitpickers". We got the IP, it'll make money.

It's not a franchise killer but it'd just one example of the many broken windows

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173. ourhouse509 ◴[] No.43493309{5}[source]
I think they're trying to convey "don't throw stones at glass houses." It sounds like they're trying to make the argument that if you're not practicing what you're preaching then you shouldn't preach. Not saying I agree with the sentiment; but I think that's what they're going for.

The reality is that you can have it both ways. I own an iPhone, I know how to build a computer, I buy software, and I know how to code. There is value in understanding how the things you have work, but that doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't buy a high quality product just because you can't take it apart.

174. InDubioProRubio ◴[] No.43493333{4}[source]
Dont worry mate, AI can teach us if we ever need it again.
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175. Spivak ◴[] No.43493340{4}[source]
The fact that the best phone is a black box for the financial benefit of the corporation that made it isn't exactly the point you think it is.
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176. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.43493349[source]
It's hard comparing GaaS to Single player ganes. It's not less effort, it's different effort.

Your average gacha may look lower effort, but it has to sustain thst effort longer instead of patching the game for a few months and moving on. It has to do a lot more marketing to get players in, because many are this pseudo-MMO experience, completely with PvP and Guild content to manage.

At the highest end, Hoyovervese's operating costs would even make Activision blush. But those games make billions to compensate.

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177. dkislyuk ◴[] No.43493367{3}[source]
I think commodification is directly tied to a perceived drop in quality. For example, if the barriers to making a video game keep going down, there will be far more attempts, and per Sturgeon's law, the majority will be of low quality. And we have a recency bias where we over-index on the last few releases that we've seen, and we only remember the good stuff from a generation or two ago. But for every multitude of low-effort, AI-generated video games out there, we still get gems like Factorio and Valheim.
replies(1): >>43493707 #
178. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.43493388{3}[source]
They are, but they don't have to be. This is definitely an example of the West faltering where the East is really flourishing. They aren't trying to make the next Fortnite nor GTA 6 or whatever billion dollar day one hit. They pick a more modest scope and budget, reuse assets smartly, and get reliable releases out.
179. Cheer2171 ◴[] No.43493405{5}[source]
They are trying to make the argument that is parodied in this meme: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-som...
180. trollbridge ◴[] No.43493432{5}[source]
QC is one of the first things to get cut. In software eventually customers punish you when your software is so bad that they can’t really use it at all. Aircraft used to be regulated, but Boeing somehow carved out “self regulation”. It’s the same problem as how washing machines don’t last as long as they did 20 years ago.
181. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.43493445{5}[source]
How is that an incentive? It's a fallback. You're not gonna love comfortably off SS payments alone in this day and age.

Treating this mentality of "taking money out that you put in" as "taking handouts" is the exact reductive mentality being used to try and have the government steal the money you earned from under your nose.

182. akoboldfrying ◴[] No.43493471{5}[source]
The comment I responded to implies a lack of availability of repairable devices. I'm trying to make the point that the market does in fact offer them, but that consumer choice is overwhelmingly in favour of locked-down shiny things -- leading to wild proliferation of the latter. This preference is so strong that even those who complain about the lack of repairability choose locked-down-and-shiny over repairability, perhaps without even consciously realising it.

It's tiring to read again and again about evil external forces wrecking the world, when the choices are our own, and right in front of our faces.

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183. jimnotgym ◴[] No.43493481{3}[source]
If they have the capital...
184. trollbridge ◴[] No.43493504{4}[source]
In US self checkouts the grumpy staff member is mostly there to stop people from stealing and acts annoyed when you try to get them to help you when the machine inevitably doesn’t work.
185. bix6 ◴[] No.43493519{3}[source]
Companies should go bankrupt because a trusted bank had a bank run thrust on it by competitors? I don’t agree with that.
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186. trollbridge ◴[] No.43493547{4}[source]
Means testing SS would result in elderly people transferring their assets to other people, much as already happens so they can get free nursing home care. Medicare isn’t means treating but Medicaid is, so we can see exactly what happens.

Means testing will also make paying into these programs even less popular. Upper middle class people will ask why, exactly, they’re expected to pay more into a retirement program they will get less out of. That’s a recipe for political change from a party who promises not to do that.

187. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.43493707{4}[source]
Surgeon's paw was true in the 90's and is true in the '20s. There's not much point in comparing the crap to the crap. The only big difference is that it is easier to see the bottom of the barrel in your most popular storefronts with a click l(even on "curated" ones these days woth PSN and the eShop) instead of going out of your way to find some shareware from a Geocity that barely functioned.

Thing is those high profile disasters are still supposedly the "cream of the crop". That's why they get compared to the cream of before.

Popular examples are easier to exemplify as well instead of taking the time to explain what Blinx the Cat or Midnight Club are (examples of good but not genre-defining entries)

188. nindalf ◴[] No.43493711[source]
> go home to play video games and the new releases are all remasters of 20 year old games

This annoyed me, because it's so manifestly untrue. The games of the year of the last few years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Game_of_the_Year_award...)

- 2024: Astro Bot

- 2023: Baldur's Gate 3

- 2022: Elden Ring

- 2021: No consensus pick, but It Takes Two stands out to me

- 2020: Hades

All of these, with the exception of BG3 are original IP. A lot of them have really unique game mechanics that I haven't seen before. Hades has some of the tightest combat that never gets old even after hundreds of runs. It also has extraordinary music and voice acting. Truly a labour of love.

It Takes Two is a co-op story adventure. Every single level has a new fun mechanic. In one of them you literally control time. Please, do tell me which game from 20 years ago was a co-op adventure where every level was unique? The best co-op was probably Halo 2 (2004), but that's just shooting from beginning to end.

You're thinking "well, ok there's one sequel in there. That's proof that video game companies want to play it safe". But you'd still be incorrect. BG3 is inspired by its prequels BG1 and 2, but those released 20 years ago. Open YouTube and check out how different they are in every single way. I'll bet there isn't even a single line of code common between the BG3 and the originals. BG3 exists because the developers grew up playing BG1 and 2 and wanted to make a homage to the games that shaped them. And they succeeded, good for them.

I will admit that I didn't play Elden Ring. I didn't even attempt to, because I already have a full time job. But that's great too, because it shows that there are games being made for people who love a punishingly difficult challenge. That's not me, but you can find that now if you want.

Your comment is just rose-tinted whingeing. It's so easy to write a comment like "man, the good old days were really good weren't they". But ... no. I can play all of the games from the good old days and I can also play Hades, It Takes Two and BG3. And that's just the surface! There are so many incredible games being made and released. Factorio is great in many ways, but the most remarkable part is how they've optimised their game to a mind-boggling extent.

No one knows how to do anything anymore? Then how did these incredibly innovative, flawlessly executed games get made?

replies(2): >>43493813 #>>43493860 #
189. nyarlathotep_ ◴[] No.43493716{4}[source]
> was also shocked to see on an example recently that even basic computer literacy is gone.

Even with people that work with/in software roles there's often shocking knowledge gaps in areas that they work in. I've worked with more than one front-end "engineer" that only understood React--they had no conception of DOM APIs or that React was an abstraction on top of that whole underlying environment.

Even creating a static page with a simple form was create-react-app for them.

replies(1): >>43494039 #
190. zahlman ◴[] No.43493718{4}[source]
Your point is well taken, but I wouldn't call your anecdote a matter of "basic computer literacy". I've been using desktop computers regularly since the Apple ][ era, but I've never owned a laptop or had to worry about charging one.
191. alabastervlog ◴[] No.43493725{3}[source]
My dad worked his way up to middle management in a large railroad.

Management and executives had almost all worked their way up the ladder. Toward the end I think some of the higher-up ones were encouraged to get an MBA as they advanced, but they didn't do much hiring of MBAs.

The company got bought by another in IIRC the late 90s, and this other one had already been taking over by the "professional managerial class", and they quickly replaced most of the folks from the top down to the layer just above him with their own sort.

His description of what followed was incredible amounts of waste. Not just constant meetings that should have been emails (though, LOTS of that) but entire business trips that could have been emails. Lots of them fucking things up because they had no idea how anything worked, but wouldn't listen to people who did know. Just, constant.

The next step was they "encouraged" his layer to retire early, for any who were old enough, which was lots of them since, again, most of them had worked their way up the ladder to get where they were, not stepped straight into management as a 25-year-old with no clue how actual work gets done. I haven't asked, but I assume they replaced them with a bunch of young business school grads.

There are sometimes posts on HN suggesting that our dislike of business school sorts is silly or overblown, but if anything I think it's too weak. The takeover by them and, relatedly, the finance folks has been disastrous for actual productivity and innovation. Companies should be run by people who've done the work that the company does, and not just for an internship or something.

replies(2): >>43494663 #>>43494993 #
192. ViktorRay ◴[] No.43493740[source]
Actually I think your examples show that it is you who may be incorrect.

Stardew Valley is 9 years old.

Minecraft is almost 16 years old. The current version of the game has not dramatically changed in terms of the experience of most players of the game in over 10 years. (Hardcore players of any game will always make a big deal of any minor changes).

I was born in the 1990’s. I was playing games regularly in the 2000’s and the 2010’s although I don’t play as much today.

Hardly anyone in 2005 was playing 1996 games or 1989 games regularly.

Even in 2015 not many were playing 2006 or 1999 games regularly. (I think World of Warcraft was the only very popular old game in 2015)

But now in 2025 you bring up a 2016 game and 2009 game to argue with that other guy?

Hell what happened to the major big budget games? I remember playing Witcher 3, Red Dead Redemption 2 and Cyberpunk 2077…but even those games are ancient now. Witcher 3 is 10 years old, RDR 2 is 7 years old, Cyberpunk is 5 years old…

In 2015 I was playing games more often but I was playing games that were more recently released…. Not really games from 2010, 2008 and 2005….

Hell the most popular game for kids now is Fortnite which is 8 years old and came out in 2017! I wasn’t playing Mass Effect (2007) too much in 2015. The difference between Mass Effect 1 or Elder Scrolls Oblivion and The Witcher 3 is the same time difference as when Fortnite was released and 2025!

replies(1): >>43496162 #
193. zahlman ◴[] No.43493753{4}[source]
I don't think that's a fair characterization of what happened. See e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WowVQ4rhbt8 .
replies(1): >>43493988 #
194. ViktorRay ◴[] No.43493813[source]
I posted a reply to another user here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43493740

I don’t want to retype everything I posted in that reply but it kind of applies to your comment as well.

In 2015 if we were having this discussion I could easily pull out dozens of groundbreaking innovating games from 2010 to 2015.

In 2005 if we were having this discussion I could have easily pulled out dozens of groundbreaking innovating games from 2000 to 2005.

But we are having this discussion in 2025 and I know both you and I would struggle to pull out a dozen high quality new innovating games that have come out in the past 5 years.

Clearly things have gone worse.

replies(2): >>43494284 #>>43494338 #
195. nottorp ◴[] No.43493860[source]
> All of these, with the exception of BG3 are original IP.

Elden Ring is just Demon's Souls 4 from 2009. It's good to the point that I'll still preorder its successor, but nothing is original there any more.

Edit: not 4, more like 7?

Edit 2: Hades seemed more difficult to me than Elden Ring. Maybe you shouldn't trust the marketing and check for yourself.

replies(1): >>43494480 #
196. bluecheese452 ◴[] No.43493916{3}[source]
The obvious solution should be people stop using it and the system collapses. I haven’t had food delivered since 2020. Sadly it seems most people feel it is good enough.
197. SoftTalker ◴[] No.43493939{5}[source]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues
198. bix6 ◴[] No.43493988{5}[source]
My comment is somewhat tongue in cheek. I understand the underlying issue. The back channeling during that time was crazy though.
199. mlyle ◴[] No.43494017{5}[source]
But, there's a hyperparameter here; we culturally and organizationally get to choose how much of this game exists and how effective it is.

And certainly some of these games are useful; abilities of this kind are highly correlated with other abilities, and having masterful language and perception manipulators act for the interest of your company or nation is valuable.

But it's not the only useful skill at the upper tier of organizations, and emphasizing it over all else is costly. So are internal political games-- when your organization plays too many of them, the benefits one gets from selecting these people and efforts are dwarfed by the infighting and wasted effort. It can also result in severe misalignment between individual and organizational incentives.

replies(1): >>43494268 #
200. hansmayer ◴[] No.43494039{5}[source]
I feel your pain, the quotation marks are spot on. It does not help that they are usually former political science or media graduates who decided they will make big bucks in "tech". Very hard to work with those people, just because they entire background is do damn orthogonal to a classic engineering background.
replies(1): >>43495353 #
201. pcthrowaway ◴[] No.43494042{5}[source]
Poe's law in action. I assume this is sarcasm but you never know
202. Workaccount2 ◴[] No.43494049{6}[source]
The killer feature of doordash/ubereats/grubhub/whatever is the ability to shop for food from a ton of different restaurants in one place with one payment button.

Back when I was doing food delivery before the pandemic, we would actively promote placing orders with our restaurant directly. I would tell repeat doordash customers that they can save 15% if they just call or use the website.

None of them converted. The convenience of the app is just too strong for people to care.

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203. rurp ◴[] No.43494094{6}[source]
How long does it take to manually dry a normal load with that thing? My dryer takes at least an hour to dry a modest sized load of normal clothes so I would expect a non-powered one to take many hours, but maybe my modern dryer is really so bad it doesn't save much time.
replies(1): >>43494992 #
204. Workaccount2 ◴[] No.43494138{6}[source]
Trader Joe's has narrow selection, leverages economies of scale for relabeling, does it's own distribution, and forgoes any form of ready made/ready prepared foods (instead leaning on a large frozen meal selection).

I love trader joes, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't be happy if it was the only grocery store I had access to. For me it's an awesome second-in-line grocery store, more like a specialty grocery than a main grocery.

205. mym1990 ◴[] No.43494155{4}[source]
Eh, I technically pay 0 in delivery fees due to uber one or whatever but the fees somehow pile up anyways…the menu price of an item somehow doubles or triples I kid you not by the time I check out.
206. nostrademons ◴[] No.43494162[source]
They're responding to incentives. The only user that matters is the marginal user, the person who didn't previously use your product but now does. They even teach this in MBAs and economics classes. And so the only efforts that matter are those that create a customer, and hence management spends a great deal on promotions, marketing, new customer discounts, advertising, gamification, addictive usage mechanics, lock-in, etc but basically zero on making existing customers happy. It's almost better if they aren't happy - an "ideally run" company is one that has users who hate your product but don't hate it quite enough to quit using it (or if they do, they have no alternatives).

Enshittification in action.

207. bitwize ◴[] No.43494165{3}[source]
What's more, the biggest hit of 1997 swept the Oscars the following year. I'm not the biggest Titanic fan in the world, but it gave moviegoing masses what they craved: spectacle and pathos. And it was considered the best film of the year just for doing that with aplomb. It was very Old Hollywood in a sense. These days, "blockbusters" are thought of as just expensive-to-produce slop for the lumpenproletariat, so the studios treat them as such. No one wants to produce a blockbuster with the sort of care and attention to detail that went into, say, Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope. Or even Titanic.

What's worse is that comedy is a minefield, as somebody somewhere is bound to be offended and launch a cancel campaign. So comedy films, including the once-beloved rom com, just don't get produced anymore like they used to. Any attempts at humor in movies has to be rolled in to something else -- superheroes talking in aggressively annoying Whedonese and the like -- and housewives must content themselves with Hallmark Channel glurge. And what humor is there is cringey as fuck because it's either entirely toothless or it's a "Straight white men, am I right?" type of thing because you are still allowed -- and encouraged -- to mock that group.

I mean, the normally sequel-averse Jim Carrey came back to do three movies about a video game hedgehog because those are the only movies being made in which he gets to flat-out do Jim Carrey stuff.

208. pcthrowaway ◴[] No.43494217{3}[source]
Yeah, but compare television of today to that of 1997. I think the real difference is that priorities shifted in the industry with streaming. Serializing a television show weekly at a regular slot, multi-episode narratives were more difficult to follow (viewers would be out of luck if they missed an episode, and they couldn't just stream it later)

So there has been something of a renaissance with television, starting around the time of the Sopranos release in 1999 I think, which there was a market for shows which didn't 'reset' somewhat between episodes.

replies(2): >>43502283 #>>43505944 #
209. al_borland ◴[] No.43494222{4}[source]
There was a South Park special about this. I think it was Into the Panderverse as a 2nd plot line.

The handy men of the future were like today’s tech bros. They were loaded, because people couldn’t perform basic tasks around the house. When a father was looking to teach his son how to fix the oven, he showed him how to call the handy man.

210. dominicrose ◴[] No.43494248{3}[source]
but Star wars didn't get a 1.8 rating on IMDB and the CGI was good for the time
211. Teever ◴[] No.43494263{6}[source]
But you understand that the quality of those repairdble devices that exist on the mark is far less than the quality of the standard devices on the market because more money goes into their R&D due to the scale of entrenched players and that this means that these goods aren't directly comparable.

I would prefer a scenario where monopolists were broken up and regulators mandated open designs that can be repaired.

212. bsenftner ◴[] No.43494268{6}[source]
There is a misunderstanding that being an effective communicator equals political gaming of situations. That is possible with or without effective communications, and largely misses the point that effective communications is not playing games, it's avoiding them. It is not trying "to win", it is seeking shared understanding and consensus. If one's management is playing political games, they are failing in their communications, trying to win in some personal game, not for the betterment of the company.
replies(1): >>43494646 #
213. Workaccount2 ◴[] No.43494284{3}[source]
I don't know about you, but as I have grown older video games in general have just become less appealing. However I can see the same glee in younger coworkers eyes when talking about games today.

In 2005 I could play a game for 12 hours straight and then hardly be able to sleep I would be so excited about playing it the next day.

Today, even for a game like BG3 that is objectively an incredible game, I can do maybe 2 hours every few days and feel fulfilled.

I don't think this an outlying example either. Most of my friends are now the same way, and frankly when you login to play games online, it's not exactly overflowing with the 35-40yr olds who saturated servers 20 years ago.

replies(2): >>43494540 #>>43495633 #
214. nbaugh1 ◴[] No.43494320{6}[source]
I think by "these services" they mean apps like Doordash, not delivery as a concept
replies(1): >>43495784 #
215. lenerdenator ◴[] No.43494326[source]
> My personal theory is that this is the result of an incompetent management class where no self corrections are happening.

Close. They're not incompetent; we just redefined competence.

It used to be that competence was a mix of a lot of distinct, but interdependent, qualities. The end result was synergy that allowed for people and organizations (including companies) to compete and move society forward.

In the 1970s, we started to allow a bunch of psychopaths (I'm saying this in the clinical sense) to redefine competence. Instead of this array of distinct qualities, they just defined it in terms of ability to create monetary value, particularly if that value was then transferred to shareholders. That was it.

We also switched to quarterly reporting for for-profit companies, shrinking the window to evaluate this new definition of competence to 90 days. Three months.

An end result of this was that you could simply do whatever made the most money in 90 days and be considered competent.

Jack Welch was the paragon of this. GE shareholders saw massive gains during the latter half of his tenure at the helm. This wasn't because of groundbreaking new products or services; quite the opposite: Jack realized that selling off divisions and cutting costs by any means necessary was a good way to make money in the 90 day period. Institutional knowledge and good business relationships in the market - two of the elements of the former definition of competence - were lost, while money - the sole element under which competence was judged in the new definition - went up.

You also had managers doing a lot of the avoidance of real management, like you speak of. Instead of betting on a new product or trying to enter a new market, they took a Six Sigma course, learned a bunch of jargon, and cut costs at the expense of business past the 90 day period.

If you do this enough (and we did, far beyond just GE), that expense is taken at the societal level. Existence extends beyond 90 days. You can't mortgage the future forever. It's now the future, the payment is due, and we have an empty account to draw from.

Theoretically, we could go back to a more in-depth evaluation of competence and reward its display over the long term. In practice, there are a bunch of people who got unfathomably wealthy off of the shift to the "new" competence, and now they're in charge and don't want to switch back, so we won't.

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216. nindalf ◴[] No.43494338{3}[source]
It's unclear what you want, exactly. Look at the list of Games of the Year I shared. There are dozens of incredible games. Have you played the games I mentioned - BG3, Hades and It Takes Two? Hit games can be similar to previous hits. That's not a bad thing though. That's just successful innovations spreading.

What I suspect is the problem is that you also want them to be groundbreaking and innovative. This is an impossibly high bar to meet in a mature industry. There are some games that still meet this bar. Half Life Alyx is from 2020, ever played anything like it? Have you truly built all the possible contraptions in Tears of the Kingdom (2023)? Last of Us Part II (2020) is going to premiere on TV in a couple of weeks. How many older video games have a story that was shot so perfectly that they be translated shot for shot into a hit TV or movie?

Check out these two videos of a guy horsing around in Tears of the Kingdom - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpFXlkjAurc and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyQdn5bwF_Q. Look at how much fun he's having! Yes, it takes an incredible game to enable such creativity. But he's having fun because he wants to have fun.

If you're finding less joy in games than you used to, you should be open to the idea that it's not the games that are causing that effect.

217. alabastervlog ◴[] No.43494467{3}[source]
Star Trek (1960s), MASH (1970s)—shit, the entire history of sitcoms that are regarded as decent-or-better is mostly just one fairly "political" series after another, going back to the earliest days of TV. I mean FFS today people'd probably complain that the first Star Wars movie (not just ROTJ, to which you allude) is "woke" because Leia's the only consistently-competent character out of the three leads, and is by far the least-whiny. "Boo! Why is the elite-educated noble woman who's also already deeply involved in an armed resistance so much cleverer and more-effective and cool under pressure than our farmboy hick hero who's away from home for the first time and wallowing in a whole pile of recent trauma and grief, and this random flaky braggart scumbag they picked up?"

Anyway, stuff like Dirty Harry or a bunch of traditional Westerns are extremely political in the same ways that "woke" movies are (presenting and normalizing certain roles and behaviors, presenting politicized views of history and of certain groups, ways of life, and attitudes, and using caricatures of their political opponents as bad guys), they're just not liberal so that means they "aren't political".

Hell, most of the silent films that were good enough that anyone still gives a shit about them are plenty political, and often (but not always) rather liberal.

replies(1): >>43495007 #
218. nindalf ◴[] No.43494480{3}[source]
Nah, I'm good. I've seen people play Elden Ring and it's definitely not for me. I don't even like the art style.
219. bee_rider ◴[] No.43494481{3}[source]
I don’t completely disagree, but I think it is, at least, going to require a lot of work to generalize from “American large corporations” to “the West” (which has always been a fuzzy concept, but at least includes Europe, which seems to be getting better over time).
220. ◴[] No.43494540{4}[source]
221. mlyle ◴[] No.43494646{7}[source]
> If one's management is playing political games, they are failing in their communications, trying to win in some personal game

Is this not A) ubiquitous, B) rich with incentives, and C) not downright implied in "They are masterful language and perception manipulators, in a strategic game of corporate dominance." and "the understanding of what makes others in their management circles feel good."

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222. hylaride ◴[] No.43494663{4}[source]
> The takeover by them and, relatedly, the finance folks has been disastrous for actual productivity and innovation.

The fact that so many companies play tricks with CAPEX and OPEX completely misses the point that almost all corporate spending should be seen as investment or spending to support investment at some level.

The past 50 years of business school has taught people that outsourcing your core competency is a good idea because it gets things "off the books" and makes quarterly reports look better. The end result was shifting huge swaths of our economy to a hostile country.

Here in tech, I've literally seen companies shift stuff into the cloud even though it's more expensive, because OPEX can be written off right away and they don't want CAPEX on the books, only for a year later to want to shift back because they decided it's now better to optimize for actual cashflow. It's infuriating.

223. havblue ◴[] No.43494703{3}[source]
Saying that Stormtroopers are bad or that the Vietnam war was bad isn't really that controversial or partisan.
replies(1): >>43498610 #
224. jobs_throwaway ◴[] No.43494832{3}[source]
> People used to get dopamine hits from writing code that works, fixing cars, climbing mountains, playing music, and asking other people out on dates.

Those all sound vastly more positive both on a personal and societal level vs getting dopamine from your phone

225. bee_rider ◴[] No.43494933{3}[source]
Maybe…

I dunno, there’s something in the fact that Isaac Newton the imaginary cultural figure was hit on the head by an apple, and then invented calculus.

Meanwhile Isaac Newton the actual guy (recalling from memory so feel free to correct) was a bit eccentric (dabbled in alchemy and other mystic arts), had some academic posts, some government jobs, and built Calculus on work that was ongoing in the academic community…

The imaginary Isaac Newton and the imaginary Elon Musk look sort of similar. Because we ignore the boring work that Newton did and the fact that Musk just bought his way around it—their real versions look very different of course! But if you want the actual day to day experience of being Isaac Newton, you can, just go be a professor and make some quirky friends.

replies(1): >>43496046 #
226. _heimdall ◴[] No.43494992{7}[source]
With the first few loads I wrung cloths out by hand and tossed them in the dryer. I didn't notice it being longer, but I also didn't time it so 20-30% longer wouldn't surprise me.

After a few loads I bought a hand crank cloths wringer, basically two rollers that squeezes the water out. That thing honestly works better than a spin cycle, cloths are more dry than coming out of the washer and I have noticed the dryer finishing faster (I usually run it on an auto sense mode rather than a timer).

227. EFreethought ◴[] No.43494993{4}[source]
There are a lot of companies out there (HP, Intel, Boeing, GM, Xerox) where if you dive into the history, at some point somebody says something to the effect of: "This used to be a great engineering firm until the finance guys took over."
228. bluescrn ◴[] No.43495007{4}[source]
> I mean FFS today people'd probably complain that the first Star Wars movie (not just ROTJ, to which you allude) is "woke" because Leia's the only consistently-competent character out of the three leads

Compare+contrast with 'The Last Jedi'. Turning the male characters into total idiots and sending them off on a massive wild goose chase, before the day is saved by completely breaking the physics of the Star Wars universe, making all the previous heroes look like idiots for not using a relativistic kill vehicle against the Death Star!

I don't remember hearing any complaining about strong female characters in the era of Leia, Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, Major Kira, Susan Ivanova, and so on.

229. msabalau ◴[] No.43495011{3}[source]
Based on your description, consumers also get a wider range of delivery options.

Also, it is a little odd that people are dining out more often if the experience is worse.

But, yeah, wages and employment being down is the most relevant change.

230. trashtester ◴[] No.43495038[source]
With all due respect, this attitude typically comes with age. I see it in myself, too (I'm over 50).

You're right that an important reason why it's hard to replace those 30+ year old systems, and that part of the reason is that the current devs are not necessarily at the same level as those who built the original. But at least in part, this is due to survivorship bias.

Plenty of the systems that were built 30-50 years ago HAVE been shut down, and those that were not tend to be the most useful ones.

A more important tell, though, is that you see traditional IT systems as the measuring stick for progress. If you do a review of history, you'll see that what is seen as the measuring stick changes over time.

For instance, in the 50's and 60's, the speed of cars and airplanes was a key measuring sticks. Today, we don't even HAVE planes in operation that match the SR-71 or Concorde, and car improvements are more incremental and practical than spectacular.

In the 70s and into the 80s, space exploration and flying cars had the role. We still don't have flying cars, and very little happened in space from 1985 until Elon (who grew up in that era) resumed it, based on his dream of going to Mars.

In the 90s, as Gen-X'ers (who had been growing up with C64/Amiga's) grew up, computers (PC) were the rage. But over the last 20 years little has happened with the hardware (and traditional software) except that the number of cores/socket has been going up.

In the 2000s, mobile phones were the New Thing, alongside apps like social media, uber, etc. Since 2015, that has been pretty slow, too, though.

Every generations tends to devalue the breakthroughs that came after they turned 30.

Boomers were not impressed by computers. Many loved their cars, but remained nostalgic about the old ones.

X-ers would often stay with PC's as the milennials switched to phones-only. Some X-ers may still be a bit disappointed that there's no flying cars, Moon Base and no Mars Colony yet (though Elon, an X'er is working on those).

And now, some Milennials do not seem to realize that we're in the middle of the greatest revolution in human history (or pre-history for that matter).

And developers (both X'ers and millennials) in particular seem to resist it more than most. They want to keep their dependable von Neumann architecture computing paradigm. The skills they have been building up over their career. The source of their pride and their dignity.

They don't WANT AI to be the next paradigm. Instead, they want THEIR paradigm to improve even further. They hold on to it as long as they can get away with it. They downplay of revolutionary it is.

The fact, though, is that every kid today walks around with R2D2 and C3PO in their pockets. And production of physical robots have gone exponential, too. A few more years at this rate, and it will be everywhere.

Walking around today, 2025 isn't all that different from 2015. But 2035 may well be as different from 2025 as 2025 is to 1925.

And you say the West is declining?

Well, for Europe (including Russia), this is true. Apart from DeepMind (London), very little happens in Europe now.

Also, China is a competitor now. But so was the USSR a couple of generations ago, especially with Sputnik.

The US is still in the leadership position, though, if only barely. China is catching up, but they're still behind in many areas.

Just like with Sputnik, the US may need to pull itself together to maintain the lead.

But if you think all development has ended, you're like a boomer in 2010, using planes and cars as the measuring stick that thinks that nothing significant happened since 1985.

231. Hoasi ◴[] No.43495042{5}[source]
Competition is for losers. All you have to do is create value in an entirely new niche category that you will own by offering something that didn’t exist before and that people want.
replies(1): >>43497127 #
232. hylaride ◴[] No.43495097{5}[source]
> You're also competing with multinationals that can exploit tax loopholes and attract tax incentives and grants.

Not only that, but often with whole government backed companies where the government will gladly support them and even participate in espionage to gain competitive advantages. Huawei is the classic example, but is just the tip of the iceberg.

Meanwhile in most of the western world, executives are focusing on the next quarterly results...

233. ◴[] No.43495139{3}[source]
234. ◴[] No.43495162[source]
235. ekianjo ◴[] No.43495170{9}[source]
I would never use the official inflation numbers (they underestimate the actual inflation). It's easy to see that the most expensive movie ever made back in the day has a much lower budget that the most expensive movie made now, even adjusted for the official inflation rate.
236. pc86 ◴[] No.43495190{7}[source]
The only time I've seen people care is if you lay out an identical order and show the percentage increase over ordering delivery through the restaurant, or picking it up yourself.

DoorDash adds upwards of a couple dollars to every item. They charge a 5-10% service fee depending on if you pay them monthly. The default tip options are pretty egregiously high - it's not uncommon to see double-digit tips in all three options. I once saw a $22 tip in the top option for a single bag of food with no drinks less than a 10 minute drive away but that's likely an outlier.

All in if you don't have DashPass you're easily looking at a 30-40% increase if you get cheaper items which are more likely to be marked up only $.5-1 but represent a larger percentage of the total.

Nobody in their right mind would tip a delivery driver 40% of their entire meal, why are you happy to give most of that to a corporation that is doing very little for the transactions?

Edit: I just did this for an example order for a nearby restaurant - 1 appetizer and 1 entree so probably good for two people not super hungry to share or one hungry person to eat.

$31.59 in food, $2 delivery fee and $5.50 in fees (I subtracted sales taxes manually). This restaurant is 5 miles away and it's 11:30 local time. Tip suggestions are $9.50 (30%), $11.50, and $13.50 (42%). So at the lowest suggested tip amount, which is offensively high, you're looking at $49 before sales tax.

The exact same order is $26.36 including an online order service fee but before sales tax. Even if you were going to get it delivered and tip the driver 30% you're still saving a ton of money and this is on one meal with enough food for 1-2 people.

The appetizer alone is $10 on their website and $14 on DoorDash. It's a crazy system and I can't believe how much money people burn on this every year.

237. hylaride ◴[] No.43495236{4}[source]
It wasn't that the 737 MAX isn't (or can't be) a safe aircraft, but that Boeing prioritized making it fly like its predecessor over all else - including safety.

The fact that two brand new MAX's crashed killing all aboard within 2 years of its commercial introduction (out of only ~600 models flying at the time) is a brutal safety record for the jet age, especially as the cause of the crash was the plane itself. That list you post includes any and all reported incidents that merely involve 737s (and involve incidents that were caused by factors that aren't necessarily related to the safety of the place itself).

replies(1): >>43499858 #
238. nisa ◴[] No.43495312{3}[source]
Strangely enough my experiences are mostly from smaller companies that are not public traded in Germany - so very different from a typical US public company, my bosses might had sociopathic traits but I doubt that it's true for all of them - it's more the complete disregard for the product quality and disregard for investing in your employees and the inability to solve more complicated issues that is pervasive through all these gigs. I'm talking about terrible UI and software bugs. Not some small debatable things.

Maybe it's really about wrong incentives and lack of technical excellence.

Government money keeps coming in and making it broken and buggy actually assures ongoing contracts. Investment in skilled workers or solving technical issues is not paid for and everyone - company and customer are completely disconnected from the end user and feedback mechanisms are broken or manipulated.

It's maybe a mix of all the different answers my post got.

239. gen220 ◴[] No.43495319{3}[source]
In the Haudenosaunee system of governance, whenever they needed to make a consequential decision, the family-clan-appointed leaders would nominate some sub-group of the circle to represent the interests of the unborn 7 generations in the future. That's far enough into the future, ~100+ years, that the youngest person alive today to experience decision would certainly be deceased before the generation is born.

On a long enough time scale, short-term oriented systems naturally-select themselves out of existence. The U.S. Constitution didn't survive 7 generations. The Civil War was in 1865 (77 years, ~4 generations). Reconstruction Era made it maybe 60 years (3 generations), as far as the Great Depression / Dust Bowl.

The current post-war ordering of the interest of short-term capital above all else doesn't have a well-defined start date, but 1968 (MLK Jr, RFK, nomination of Humphrey) is a solid one. We're hardly 3 generations in, and it doesn't feel great.

Really, when you look at American history, the periods endowed with bouts of long-term thinking are really quite rare (1770-1810, 1880s-1900s, 1930s-1950s). Maybe we're due for another one.

replies(2): >>43496203 #>>43507420 #
240. whatever1 ◴[] No.43495353{6}[source]
Which company is willing to develop employees in deep technology for the long run? All of the frameworks were built with the explicit goal of abstracting the engineering part and ensuring they are easy enough for someone with a bootcamp experience to start contributing. Aka chew employees till they burn out and spit them. Rinse and repeat.

From an employee perspective, lets say I am a computer scientist, why should I spend precious time to develop myself in the fundamentals of Web when my manager just wants me to pump out React and Express.js code 24/7?

And for my promo? Well I will just point out that the system became slow and unmaintainable, propose adopting a new set of frameworks, cash the checks and move on to other pastures.

All the incentives are wrong.

replies(1): >>43503347 #
241. corimaith ◴[] No.43495447{3}[source]
Well in the same vein, we can directly compare the decline of fully fledged MMORPGs to the psuedo-mmos that are Gacha games with essentially all the ambitious parts of the mmo that is stripped off.

That very much is an indictment of ambition and progress here.

242. saturn8601 ◴[] No.43495521{4}[source]
>Do you own a PinePhone?

Yes. Its a piece of junk. Why do I own it? I like to throw my money away on ideals I never actually follow. Its sitting next to my unplayed guitar, my list of books on how to effectively get A's in college (I ended up a C+ student) and my Raspberry Pi that has only ever been powered on once.

243. wing-_-nuts ◴[] No.43495615{4}[source]
lmao what? I don't know of a single consumer product by a truly communist nation that has ever been considered a 'threat' to western companies
replies(1): >>43503985 #
244. getpokedagain ◴[] No.43495630{4}[source]
Waterworld is my partners favorite film of all time.
245. tarentel ◴[] No.43495633{4}[source]
I think that's just life. I felt the same way in 2005 as you did. By 2015 when this person is talking about I had other life priorities and stopped playing games as much. I still play games from time to time and even get addicted here and there but, at least for me, I didn't stop playing because the quality of games went down. I can't really say they've gone up either though. If anything people have made about the same amount of great games, and bad ones, each year for a while now.
246. anonzzzies ◴[] No.43495649[source]
I think in the west all c-level /managers (but it happens on all levels, including workers, they just tend to not get very far) just want to get rich (and/or power; same thing) and have 0 pride or vision: they just pick the path that makes them most; if that's good for the company/country/etc that's a nice coincidence, but if not, fine. Enough examples around and they are not even ashamed or whatever that it costs lives; as long as they get the $ it is fine. There is no vision, no real plan beyond what they think they will stay on for.
247. wing-_-nuts ◴[] No.43495660{6}[source]
Look, there is a large difference between certain state of the art devices that I would not have a hope of repairing, and things that can be simple to repair like major appliances, cars, etc. I'm currently doing a load of clothes in my washer and drier. They're commercial grade beasts from the 90's, and when they've broken, we've been able to fix them with cheap replacement parts.
248. avidiax ◴[] No.43495739{5}[source]
If you were storing a laptop, it would best be at 50% or so. The battery is under less stress at that state of charge (SoC), so the battery will age more slowly.

If you have OSX, you can use Al Dente[1] to limit SoC to 70 or 80% while using it to reduce battery aging. There may be similar settings on Windows depending on your laptop's manufacturer.

If you can maintain a limited SoC rather than running the battery down, that's most preferable.

Otherwise, discharging lightly (but not below 20% or so) then charging to 80% or so would be a good usage pattern.

It's helpful to know that many chargers are designed to achieve 1C charge rate (this excludes "fast chargers"). That essentially means they go from 0 to 100% SoC in one hour. So start a 30 minute timer when you plug in electronics to charge, and you'll gain about 50% SoC.

[1] https://github.com/AppHouseKitchen/AlDente-Charge-Limiter

249. boringg ◴[] No.43495745{6}[source]
Definitely. UBI doesn't give you any connection to the world or meaning just money.
250. immibis ◴[] No.43495753[source]
AFAIK the reason that newer dishwashers (new more than a decade ago) take a 2 hour cycle is that it's a more efficient cycle in both energy and water, but not in time.
251. antifa ◴[] No.43495778[source]
"Don't fix what isn't broken" is often becoming a survival tactic these days. You never know what new modern puchase you could make is spying on you, only works online (when no useful reason for that), made of cheaper materials, planning to remotely disable a feature and charge you for it, vendor locks resupply/maintenance, etc..

It increasingly applies to nearly all aspects of the economy. Everybody wants to lock you in and take a cut. Almost all new innovation these days is just rent seeking gatekeeping. Even genuine innovations are unable to get their innovations out without either recreating entire software stacks (or supply chains) that's under feudalistic/parasitic control, they often remain niche and undermonetized. This will have an effect on the economy like a % yearly reduction in atmospheric oxygen will destroy biodiversity.

252. resize2996 ◴[] No.43495782{6}[source]
It is true that ~70% is a good idea, but most charging controllers are designed to give a full charge because they have no way of knowing when the user wants a 100% battery because they're about to go out or 70% because they're going to be plugged in for a while.

This can be changed in software, setting it to 70-80% or having a toggle is best for the battery.

253. immibis ◴[] No.43495784{7}[source]
And they're saying: Why couldn't Doordash work when pizza delivery worked 20 years ago? Doordash is just pizza delivery scaled up, right? If pizza delivery had continued, it should work the same way as doordash for the same price as doordash but limited to pizza restaurants (by definition), right?
replies(2): >>43497941 #>>43503192 #
254. getpokedagain ◴[] No.43495919{7}[source]
The killer feature of this and like 90% of apps in this market capture model is laziness. They realize if you can make something easy for someone they will do it even if it’s not quite what they want.

Users want good fresh food delivered at a reasonable price. But they are willing to tolerate shitty cold food at an expensive price because it’s a tiny bit easier to do than picking up the phone.

We are lazy by nature to preserve energy and many many companies have just perfected finding the right ratio of how fucked we will allow our selves to be to tickle that lazy button.

255. resize2996 ◴[] No.43495956{4}[source]
How's that diesel truck research going? I've thought about getting into auto repair as a hobby, but wrenching on modern cars would basically be my day-job with added wire fiddling.
replies(1): >>43512066 #
256. ttw44 ◴[] No.43496046{4}[source]
This is actually a very interesting point and highlights the fact that most of the famous polymaths only started being talked about long after they were dead (good example is Maupertuis and his work on action in physics).
257. maxsilver ◴[] No.43496159{5}[source]
> These services basically don't work with Western level wages. The economics are just not there.

Only because the service is disrupting the business model for those wages.

It worked well(ish) in 2019, it failed by 2022. It's not some kind of mystery around wages or inflation, the introduction of these services (and their popularity and growth, due to COVID closing in-person restaurants for a while) is the thing that killed the economics around delivery, for much of the US.

258. ttw44 ◴[] No.43496162{3}[source]
Don't forget roblox as well. It's past the 20 year old point if you count development time. Although it is slightly different because the platform has changed substantially since 2006.
259. ViktorRay ◴[] No.43496203{4}[source]
The U.S. Constitution didn't survive 7 generations. The Civil War was in 1865 (77 years, ~4 generations).

I know the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments to the US Constitution are often considered America's Second Founding because they legally eliminated [1] all the elements of racism within the United States Constitution, but saying that the Constitution "didn't survive" doesn't see accurate...

[1] That being said we all know that it took many many decades after those 3 amendments for the laws in the United States to accurately reflect the principles embodied within these amendments.

replies(1): >>43497431 #
260. bsenftner ◴[] No.43496231{8}[source]
This is the very difficult part: people adept at manipulation tend to be highly intelligent. Simply spending time with a good manipulator is dangerous. The only good metric I know here is the old saying "the key purpose of an education is to be able to recognize one in others." Good communicators also sort out weasels via their lack of distinct language and similar tells.
261. bigstrat2003 ◴[] No.43496453{3}[source]
What has changed is not so much that writers' work is influenced by their politics. As you said, that has always been the case. What has changed is that writers these days don't recognize that their work needs to be a good work of art first, and a way to express their views second. They lack any skill in subtlety or nuance, so the work becomes little more than a soapbox for the writer that is off-putting to all but the most ideologically aligned audience.

I like to use Star Trek in the 90s as a good example of what I mean. While there are episodes where the writers got preachy (they're only human I suppose), most of the time the writers were very careful to not openly take sides on the issues they raised. Even if you got the sense that the writer for an episode might feel a certain way about the topic, the characters wouldn't tell the audience how to feel. They didn't call other characters who disagreed with them names. They didn't just bully their way to victory in the story. The topics were treated as complicated issues where reasonable adults could disagree.

Compare that to shows/movies/books today. The writers treat the story primarily as a vehicle to express their opinions on issues. They have characters tell people "this is how a decent person behaves", with the understanding that the message is really meant for the audience. They have characters who agree with them call their opponents bigots or worse insults. They portray said opponents as villains or morons who only hold their beliefs because of how evil/stupid they are. They have the "good guys" run roughshod over anyone who disagrees with them, and they get to win despite their bad behavior. And often, the writers (and even other people involved like actors) will openly express their contempt for their audience when speaking about the work. They pick fights where none needed to happen, saying stuff like "if you don't like this then I don't want you as an audience member anyway". They are, in short, bad writers who don't have the skill to successfully let their social views influence their work.

The result of all this is that these writers don't succeed at persuading anyone. In years past writers could actually make progress on advancing the things they believed in because they had the wisdom to not openly preach to people and call them names. They respected people enough to let them draw their own conclusions, and as a result were successful. But writers today aren't good enough to persuade people to continue breathing, let alone something more controversial than that.

There is also an uptick in how much politics get forced into art, with people trying to claim "everything is political" and the like. But that isn't nearly as big a factor as how bad today's artists are at using political themes in their work.

262. mathteddybear ◴[] No.43496543{7}[source]
Yeah, but this convenience goes well beyond the "one payment button".

If you order food directly, you won't have the delivery tracking on the map. Even within the app, if the restaurant provides their own couriers, you lose the visibility and arrival ETA info.

And 15% might look impressive, but if you are getting your food from a delivery app, you probably don't care that much about food price in the first place.

263. bigstrat2003 ◴[] No.43496704[source]
It's far less nice to accuse people of lying without any evidence. If someone is wrong, say so. But there's no reason to call people liars.
replies(1): >>43497505 #
264. johannes1234321 ◴[] No.43497127{6}[source]
Till the multinational corporation with deep pockets decides to go after your niche. They don't have to be profitable inside that niche, while you have to.
265. gen220 ◴[] No.43497431{5}[source]
The systems of governance pre-ACW and post-ACW were two distinct systems. The pre-ACW was essentially two competing systems of power duct-taped together with the 3/5ths amendment. The post-ACW was one dominant system of power that had beaten another into submission and annexation.

The 3/5ths compromise, and its implicit enshrinement of slavery as an American institution, is as an example of short-term thinking (compromising on the legal definition of a human being, in order to get the constitution ratified) that eventually caused the greater system to unravel. Hundreds of thousands of people died in the civil war, millions of people experienced slavery. It could have been avoided if longer-term thinking prevailed.

I hear you that the Constitution (inclusive of its self-mutating property) survived as a useful document of federal governance. This purported maintenance of a federal union was a huge legitimizer of northern domination of the post-ACW United States. But, I think you'd agree that the "system of governance" that begat the constitution did not survive, that's more what I was getting at. That each successive system of governance can still legitimately claim to be implementing the U.S. Constitution is indeed impressive.

replies(1): >>43498624 #
266. dgfitz ◴[] No.43497505{3}[source]
Elden Ring by _itself_ destroys the whole point.

If someone is wrong, say so? I said "this just isn't true"

That doesn't count?

267. iamtedd ◴[] No.43497736{4}[source]
The PinePhone still has to be good enough to make it a sensible choice over the iPhone. Ideology can't be the only selling point.

Compare the market success of the PinePhone to the Framework laptop. Their laptops are technically competitive with the Dells and the HPs of the world, while also being repairable.

The PinePhone doesn't even beat the until-recently-current iPhone SE in performance. It's a terrible choice, technically speaking.

268. neuralRiot ◴[] No.43497880{5}[source]
The thing is that most of the public demand 2025 technogic “marvels” with the accessibility of the 80’s, for a device like a phone to be able to fit in your pocket and have a battery that can make it run the whole day and beyond some compromises need to be made. https://cdn.pressebox.de/a/48cf30b132272045/attachments/0663...

That is what a 0201 capacitor looks like.

269. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.43497941{8}[source]
It is odd.. It's such an easy middlemen to apply and should theoretically be operated on modest margims. Instead it sounds like they for this stupid extortion of a cut behind the scenes which ruins it for everyon. Based on Cowto's operations, few would complain about a 14% uptick on delivery (and the tip was already culturally accepted. No more work to do there). Instead, you can double your meal price nowadays.

I know much of the answer is a mix of private equityb and an overload of debt taken from insane evaluations.

270. mattgreenrocks ◴[] No.43498048{3}[source]
The full embrace of anti-reality is now quite obvious, with social media's perceived relevance being a symptom of that. Many can't and don't want to cope with reality because it doesn't bend to their will.
271. BeFlatXIII ◴[] No.43498057[source]
> Even more glaring is TV shows, where you now get an 8-episode 'season' every 2-3 years rather than the old days of 20+ episode seasons every year, often non-stop for 5 or more years.

That's often a good change. Less filler for the sake of having another full season.

272. casey2 ◴[] No.43498069{5}[source]
If the neighbor kid (Sidney "Sid" Phillips) from toy story appeared in a modern movie of a similar budge (not even inflation adjusted) people would comment about the bad CGI.

Toy Story was a good idea because attempts at depicting humans with CGI at the time had a very plastic look.

273. skyyler ◴[] No.43498102{5}[source]
One of my favourite things about internet forums is watching people re-invent Marxist theory by being mad at the current state of things.

It's been like this for a while now.

I think I even saw someone in a conservative subreddit suggest that everyone should work on a farm for a few years after college before they get real jobs. I'm still unable to determine if this was a troll or if a well-meaning conservative actually reinvented Mao's Down to the Countryside movement.

replies(4): >>43498255 #>>43500185 #>>43501372 #>>43521795 #
274. AnthonyMouse ◴[] No.43498174{4}[source]
> Do you own a PinePhone?

So this is why it's a cultural issue.

Let's consider a market that still works basically like it's supposed to: Desktop PCs. You have your ATX standard PC, it came with a Core i3 processor which is getting a little long in the tooth, but you can drop in a Core i7 and double the number of cores. Not only that, the parts are all modular and standard. You take your ten year old i3 6100 dual core, swap out the motherboard and CPU and now it's a 16-core Ryzen 9 5900XT from 2024, but it still supports the same memory, GPU, SSD, chassis, power supply, etc., any of which you could also have independently replaced before or after this.

So now I go and buy a PinePhone, and after a couple years the CPU seems a little anemic. No problem, it's modular, I'll just buy one of those fancy chips they put in the iPhones and put that in there. Or at least the top end things from Samsung or Qualcomm. No? That's not available?

Okay, but at least I can put whatever software I want on it. Now the way this works is, people can improve their own devices in collaboration with other people. Adding a new subsystem to your phone would be a full time job, but it could also be a dozen part time jobs. Somebody does a barebones implementation and throws it on github, then you personally only need it to do one extra thing and all you have to do is add the extra thing instead of starting from scratch, which is a tractable problem instead of a hopeless pipe dream. But when each person contributes a little part, you ultimately end up with a complete implementation. Most of the users don't even have to contribute anything, as long as there is a large enough community of people who do.

Except that 99% of people have locked down devices, so the community is suppressed and then even if you buy the device that allows you to do it, you're the only one working on that subsystem and it's too much work for you to do yourself, so you don't even make the attempt. And then what good is the device?

It's an ecosystem problem. A cultural issue. It can't be just you. You need the default attitude of the common customer to be "this despotism will not stand" and to give the finger to any company that locks you out of your own property. Regardless of whether you personally actually upgrade your own device or write your own code, you need everyone to have the ability to do it, because the alternative is a friction that erodes the community and in turn destroys a backstop against involuntary captivity.

275. silverquiet ◴[] No.43498255{6}[source]
My favorite was some comment on Reddit or other observing how often people had to resort to paying medical bills via GoFundMe. They had the idea to create one large pool of money in order to pay the medical bills of all citizens. It is often hard to tell trolling from genuine incompetence.
276. ozmodiar ◴[] No.43498610{4}[source]
Maybe not now. I wasn't alive for the Vietnam war but I remember saying anything bad about the Iraq war 2 was a quick way to get fired and a bunch of death threats for a few years. Now things have flipped, but you've got to keep in mind that attitudes change and people like to pretend they never supported viewpoints that have become unpopular.
277. echoangle ◴[] No.43498620{5}[source]
Maybe the world has just moved on and standards from the past just aren't as valuable now as they once were?

Boeing being better now than in the 90s doesn't mean that the stock shouldn't drop, because competitors and expectations are higher now than in the 90s.

278. ViktorRay ◴[] No.43498624{6}[source]
Ah I see what you’re saying. That makes sense.

I am not a lawyer but many years ago I read about the following doctrine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_of_the_Bill_of_R...

Basically prior to the American Civil War the Bill of Rights was considered to only apply to the Federal government and not the state governments.

After the Civil War, the US Supreme Court interpreted the 14th amendment such that overtime all the amendments of the Bill of Rights were considered to apply to the states as well.

So what you are saying about one system being dominant over the other system (Federal government being dominant over the state governments) makes sense and it is something that seems to have happened more extensively after the Civil War.

279. kevin_thibedeau ◴[] No.43498915{4}[source]
TV wasn't as engrossing when there were only three channels. Fewer people would be full time couch potatoes. Cable's growth in the 80s changed how society allocated their leisure time on passive activities.
280. SR2Z ◴[] No.43499858{5}[source]
> It wasn't that the 737 MAX isn't (or can't be) a safe aircraft, but that Boeing prioritized making it fly like its predecessor over all else - including safety.

It's misleading to say they prioritized making it fly like its predecessor over safety.

In theory there was absolutely nothing wrong with a system LIKE MCAS. In fact the 737 MAX is still approved to fly with it.

The flaws were in the specific implementation and documentation around it, not with the idea of the system itself.

> The fact that two brand new MAX's crashed killing all aboard within 2 years of its commercial introduction (out of only ~600 models flying at the time) is a brutal safety record for the jet age, especially as the cause of the crash was the plane itself.

If you want to be pedantic about it, the reason for the crashes is that the pilots failed to recognize trim runaway during takeoff. The trim runaway was caused by MCAS, but this is not a new failure mode for ANY aircraft and pilots get extensive training on how to manage it [1].

MCAS failing was not an unrecoverable error [2]. It failed several times in the US, as well, but American pilot training standards are very high compared to the places where there WERE disasters and the pilots recognized and recovered quickly.

I say this not to deflect blame from MCAS. Its original implementation was unsafe and should never have been approved.

A large part of why modern jetliners are so safe is exactly because of flight control augmentations like this - both Boeing and Airbus have been implementing these for decades and they have made flying much safer. Your suggestion that any system like MCAS is always unsafe (or that Boeing was somehow doing something wrong by adding it) is totally wrong.

1: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/july/pilot... 2: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/18/magazine/boeing-737-max-c...

replies(2): >>43505337 #>>43505378 #
281. a_bonobo ◴[] No.43500185{6}[source]
While that may be classic Marxist stuff, modern philosophers like Byung-Chul Han give a great twist on the whole thing in a digital age, I should've linked to his works too, especially for the self-optimising HN crowd.

Just quoting from Wikipedia:

>Han argues that subjects become self-exploiters: "Today, everyone is an auto-exploiting labourer in his or her own enterprise. People are now master and slave in one. Even class struggle has transformed into an inner struggle against oneself."[12] The individual has become what Han calls "the achievement-subject"; the individual does not believe they are subjugated "subjects" but rather "projects: Always refashioning and reinventing ourselves" which "amounts to a form of compulsion and constraint—indeed, to a "more efficient kind of subjectivation and subjugation." As a project deeming itself free of external and alien limitations, the "I" subjugates itself to internal limitations and self-constraints, which are taking the form of compulsive achievement and optimization.[13]

282. roenxi ◴[] No.43501047{4}[source]
You can agree with whatever you like. But if your stance is people should be able to just give money to whoever and it all works out in the end then you aren't supporting an environment where management are honest, because they are being supported in being wilfully blind.

They're managing capital. If they get bailed out because they turned out to be completely irresponsible in managing their capital then nobody can claim to be surprised that management tend not to be of the highest standard on any axis.

What is supposed to be the incentive here for appointing competent managers for most companies? It literally doesn't matter. Even company-bankrupting performance will turn a profit once the effects of money printing are factored in.

replies(1): >>43523758 #
283. mitjam ◴[] No.43501334[source]
It’s the age of thinking instead of doing. Thinking doesn‘t solve doing problems but we can think and talk them away or at least outsource the doing. —- Hmm, what an interesting thought. Let‘s think about it some more.
284. somenameforme ◴[] No.43501372{6}[source]
Marx doesn't make any real sense in modern times because of his obsession on class divides. In contemporary society there's no real difference between a capitalist and a worker. This is true even in his own terms since we all literally own one of the most valuable 'means of production' - a computer. Obviously I'm in no way saying that there aren't invisible classes in society, but that these don't define our possibilities in ways at all comparable to the early 19th century.

People also seem to try to shoe horn him into every topic, even when it really doesn't fit. For instance this issue is not one about some group of melancholy workers being alienated from the product, but 'capitalists' who have become so detached from their product that they are left looking at things through a sort of compression lens that leaves them with a deeply distorted view of reality. Even with your example - I agree that learning 'life skills' is extremely important for a solid development, but Mao wasn't doing that - he was effectively exiling people to rural areas, largely to replenish populations after massive famines that were created by his other harebrained schemes.

replies(1): >>43506678 #
285. bitwize ◴[] No.43502283{4}[source]
Television today consists of a few bangers like Severance mixed with an awful lot of slop. Serialized or not, it's telling that the term Netflix coined for most of its output is "second-screen content", meaning stuff you have on in the background while you scroll your phone. I had been rewatching Max Headroom recently, and the difference it makes when you make a television show to be watched -- as most television was in the 80s and 90s -- vs. simply filling time, really struck me.
286. disgruntledphd2 ◴[] No.43503192{8}[source]
For a few reasons:

1. Pizza travels very very very well

2. Pizza is pretty cheap to make

3. Wages (and costs of transportation) were lower 20 years ago.

More generally, delivery as a model can work, but not when you have an organisation of really expensive engineers/salespeople working on a frontend to it.

287. hansmayer ◴[] No.43503347{7}[source]
Well, that's the problem - too many people motivated only by the paycheck/career. It used to be different, people without deep technical background were largely doing things they are more competent in, and the software, for all it's troubles, without idealising the past, was a few notches higher quality than today. Myself and a lot of people I know, became engineers because we liked working with the machines. Not because someone offered us a lot of money, that came as a consequence. I couldn't imagine for example retraining myself e.g. to become a lawyer if I had a guaranteed 2x the income I have now. It must be horrible for people who force themselves like that. More than once I've heard frontend "engineers" complaining bitterly about supposed 'unpredictability' of computers, whenever they accidentally switched off some environment variable or something to that order. Just do what you enjoy, money will follow.
288. InDubioProRubio ◴[] No.43503985{5}[source]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicator_(Star_Trek)

Note: The implementation is out of sight, the vision of what it could be is the actual competitor.

289. hylaride ◴[] No.43505337{6}[source]
> It's misleading to say they prioritized making it fly like its predecessor over safety.

The internal Boeing emails literally say otherwise.

> In theory there was absolutely nothing wrong with a system LIKE MCAS. In fact the 737 MAX is still approved to fly with it.

I never said that MCAS had any issues in theory. And the 737 MAX was mostly "approved" by Boeing's self-regulators, where emails trails (again literally) had anybody raising questions or concerns sidelined.

> The flaws were in the specific implementation and documentation around it, not with the idea of the system itself.

Yes, because Boeing's top priority was making it so that no expensive extra training was required to fly the MAX, despite the fact that MCAS was designed to deal with some situations that could cause the plane to fly differently.

> If you want to be pedantic about it...

Yes, I am being pedantic about it. The trim issues in the crashes were (intermittently) caused by MCAS, but there was no specific documentation or specific training as to how to deal with it in the case of faulty MCAS sensors. There were indeed several MCAS incidents in western flights, but they were different as the failures were different. The two crashed pilots did indeed attempt disabling MCAS but the intermittent failures masked the problem and there were insufficient checklists by boeing, because had they existed it could have allueded to the fact that such situations may need new simulator time.

The MCAS issue was totally and completely recoverable if it were properly documented, but doing that would have almost certainly guaranteed the simulator time that was Boeing's top priority to avoid.

Almost all the reports about pilot capability differences had more to do with experience than it did training. These "developing" countries have younger airlines and pilots who don't have the same pipeline of pilots with decades of experience, including the military like in the US. MCAS "acted up" on several other Lion Air flights that the pilots corrected for as well, but again those were different failure modes.

The fact that the Ethiopian Airlines had perfectly acceptable safety record on other planes negates that these are "poorly trained" pilots. They've had one major accident in 2010 that was attributed to pilot error, but most of the rest were due to bad luck (eg bird strikes) or hijackings.

> A large part of why modern jetliners are so safe is exactly because of flight control augmentations like this...

I never even mentioned MCAS by name. Yes, modern jetliners are safe because of these kinds of systems. Airbus planes will not allow pilots to do many things no matter what, even. But these systems are documented, pilots trained on them, and go through rigorous testing because in most cases they're designed to make a plane safer, not try to deal with aerodynamic changes.

Boeing wanted no new simulator training despite the MAX being a very different aircraft due to changed engine placement. That was the cause. If Boeing wasn't trying to avoid new simulator training the 737 MAX is a perfectly fine aircraft as far as we know.

The 787 had similar issues as the overriding goal of the program was to get as much capital expenditure off of Boeing's books, but all of the outsourcing led to a nightmare when trying to assemble the plane and there was no unified quality control program, or even a straight line of responsibility.

290. ApolloFortyNine ◴[] No.43505378{6}[source]
>A large part of why modern jetliners are so safe is exactly because of flight control augmentations like this - both Boeing and Airbus have been implementing these for decades and they have made flying much safer. Your suggestion that any system like MCAS is always unsafe (or that Boeing was somehow doing something wrong by adding it) is totally wrong.

The common person often doesn't realize this at all. Every modern plane is flying itself essentially, with hints from the pilot on what to actually do.

>MCAS failing was not an unrecoverable error [2]

Also this is frustrating, especially in the case of the second crash where every max pilot knew the procedure (including the one that crashed), they even performed the procedure but then disabled it a minute later. Both the NTSB and the BEA (French equivalent) agreed pilot error/CRM played a role in the second.

291. snozolli ◴[] No.43505944{4}[source]
compare television of today to that of 1997.

Uh. 1997 had Oz, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Stargate SG-1, King of the Hill, Just Shoot Me, Ally McBeal, The X-Files, Friends, 3rd Rock from the Sun, and MTV still showed music videos. Cable television hadn't yet been completely overrun with 'reality' television. We joked about The History Channel becoming the WWII channel, but it hadn't yet become the Ancient Aliens, cheap, pseudo-reality parody of itself.

I get your point about serialized stories, but I'd still take the great entertainment of the 90s over today's over-reliance on digital effects and low-quality writing to generate cheap drama. Besides, most shows aren't written with a set arc, they just keep writing more so long as the numbers stay up. So we get a couple of seasons of increasing drama and mystery, then it gets cancelled with no payoff. I'd rather have the amnesia-based reset system than that!

292. drumdance ◴[] No.43506062{3}[source]
For a while I thought about starting a nonprofit or foundation or whatever whose goal was get universities to adopt the coop model for all majors, not just engineering. The idea was to take a year and learn how the world actually works. We're talking literally basic business skills like how to run a meeting, how to do an effective presentation, etiquette for email and slack etc. Also give exposure to different types of work (office vs frontline vs outdoors etc) and industry types. 1/3 business, 1/3 nonprofit, 1/3 government.
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293. skyyler ◴[] No.43506678{7}[source]
I want to focus on something you said here: >In contemporary society there's no real difference between a capitalist and a worker.

The difference is access to capital. Just like it was 150 years ago. Workers don't have enough holdings to sustain themselves without selling their body. Capitalists have enough holdings to not have to sell their body and can instead put their money to work through various means like entrepreneurship.

Also, I didn't even bring up the Down to the Countryside program as a good aspect of Mao... But since you brought it up, I figured I'd mention that his "harebrained schemes" doubled the life expectancy in China rather quickly. Like all world leaders I've studied, he did great things, and he did horrible things.

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294. andai ◴[] No.43507300{5}[source]
Thanks. I spent a few minutes reflecting on this and googling papers.

Turns out that "will" is a vague concept and doesn't have great neurological or animal models.

However, we can use some reasonable proxies!

I would argue that "libido" is the most obvious one. I recently heard a multimillionaire admit (with some embarrassment) that "we really do all this to get girls."

( I assume "libido is a function of testosterone" requires no citation ;)

Testosterone directly affects dopamine levels, dopamine sensitivity, and willingness to engage in competitive behavior:

https://www.edenclinic.co.uk/post/testosterone-and-the-brain

Another factor is "goal-directed behavior", which is mediated indirectly by "increased sense of agency"

> these results further imply that through an embodied SoA, testosterone can ultimately modulate higher-order experiences of social power and goal-directed behaviour.

https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Effect-of-Testoste...

At the societal level there is a fascinating (and deeply disturbing) book by J. D. Unwin, who studied thousands of civilizations:

>The book concluded with the theory that as societies develop, they become more sexually liberal, accelerating the social entropy of the society, thereby diminishing its "creative" and "expansive" energy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_Culture

Notably, conscientiousness and executive function are not enhanced by testosterone. However, deficiency is associated with fatigue, depression, brain fog etc. So it supports "will" by supporting overall health, and a population-wide ~50% decline does not sound healthy to me.

295. immibis ◴[] No.43507420{4}[source]
And the current incarnation of capitalism began in the 2008 financial crisis.
296. kccqzy ◴[] No.43507477{7}[source]
Yes but having one payment button doesn't mean the service needs to manage its own delivery.

Consider the example of Amazon marketplace. You still have one payment button and you can still shop for things from different vendors. Yet the order fulfillment can be done by Amazon or the seller directly.

If such an arrangement is possible on Amazon, it must mean that there are shops that trust their own fulfillment more than they do Amazon's. It is entirely possible that some restaurants will want to own that delivery experience as well.

297. kccqzy ◴[] No.43507492{4}[source]
There are plenty of other businesses wrecked by Private Equity but DoorDash isn't one of them. It's publicly traded.
298. ◴[] No.43508177{8}[source]
299. somenameforme ◴[] No.43508213{8}[source]
I wrote a lengthier post, but in writing it I realized there's a simple way to cut to the heart of this issue. Many workers in various fields (tech, legal, medicine, and more) now tend to make substantially more money than many business owners, and often for far less hours worked. In this world how does the notion of capitalist vs worker make any sense? Let alone with the stereotypes Marx depended upon for his arguments?
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300. skyyler ◴[] No.43508742{9}[source]
>In this world how does the notion of capitalist vs worker make any sense?

Well paid workers can amass the means to become capitalists.

>Let alone with the stereotypes Marx depended upon for his arguments?

Marx called these types of people that make enough money to own their own means of production "petit bourgeoisie". This is in contrast to the "haute bourgeoisie".

This isn't some exception to Marxist thought; this is literally one of the core components of Marxist thought.

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301. immibis ◴[] No.43510907{4}[source]
Yet these companies add a few dollars to each item and then make shipping cheap - for presumably the same reasons Amazon does.
302. throwing_away ◴[] No.43512066{5}[source]
I learned that most diesel cars and trucks are still dependent on electronics for fuel injection and also have a higher minimum-quality of diesel.

The prepper nerds seem to advocate for Cummins 12-valve engines from the 1990s or the Toyota 1HZ.

There's a whole lot of old diesel LandCruisers out there. I'm guessing that's the sweet spot for it still being a normal car that mechanics can maintain while still being comfy and looking cool.

303. somenameforme ◴[] No.43512686{10}[source]
Wiki tends to be obsessively fond of Marxist stuff, and gives a very different definition for petit bourgeoisie:

---

"Karl Marx and other Marxist theorists used the term petite bourgeoisie to academically identify the socio-economic stratum of the bourgeoisie that consists of small shopkeepers and self-employed artisans.

The petite bourgeoisie is economically distinct from the proletariat social-class strata who rely entirely on the sale of their labour-power for survival. It is also distinct from the capitalist class haute bourgeoisie, defined by owning the means of production and thus deriving most of their wealth from buying the labour-power of the proletariat..."

---

The critical distinction being that they aren't 'selling their labor-power' to others.

And I just don't see how one can claim this makes any sense in modern times! Proles selling their 'labor power' are out-earning the bougies, anybody (even relatively low wage workers) can hire the 'labor-power of the proletariat' with things like Fiverr (amongst many others). And basically everybody owns the most valuable means of production in modern society - a computer. If you don't, you can buy one with a day or so of minimum wage work.

For that matter bougies in modern times don't make wealth their from buying labor power - they mostly just dump money into investments, bonds, and other such financial vessels. Bonds right now are at near 5%! And again the distinctions really fail because the same is also true of retail investors with a a Robin Hood or whatever.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petite_bourgeoisie

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304. dragonwriter ◴[] No.43512758{11}[source]
> And I just don't see how one can claim this makes any sense in modern times! Proles selling their 'labor power' are out-earning the bougies

No, they generally are not. There is obviously overlap, as there was in Marx's time, in income, but that’s not a problem with the theory—class isn’t about income but mode of participation in the economy.

> For that matter bougies in modern times don't make wealth their from buying labor power - they mostly just dump money into investments, bonds, and other such financial vessels.

The “financial vessels” are instruments of other entities, most of which exist by rented labor power.

> And again the distinctions really fail because the same is also true of retail investors with a a Robin Hood or whatever.

The distinctions have never been hard lines. In the most simplistic analysis class is determined by the predominant mode of interaction with the economy, while a more nuanced view sees class membership as essentially a fuzzy membership function, depending on the degree to which one interacts in the manner (selling labor to capitalists vs applying your own labor to your own capital vs. owning capital to which rented labor is applied) archetypical of a given class (both these modes of a analysis have been around for quite a while, thougj the fuzzy membership function language would only be used fairly recently.)

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305. somenameforme ◴[] No.43512962{12}[source]
> "that’s not a problem with the theory—class isn’t about income but mode of participation in the economy."

We can challenge this assertion by reductio ad absurdum. Imagine somehow all bougies earned less than all workers. Everything Marx said would be absolutely and completely nonsensical. There's nothing inherently impossible about such a world existing and it makes clear the point that income levels do absolutely matter. And in Marx's time I think it is fairly safe to say there would have been exactly 0 proles earning more than bougies. The concept of a 'factory' worker earning more than a factory owner would have been entirely alien to him, and most of the world, until fairly recently.

The most paradoxical thing about all of this is that the people most drawn to Marxist stuff are disproportionately in tech, the exact sort who, in many cases, already earn more than many, and likely most, business owners, work far fewer hours, and generally have dramatically nicer working conditions. I think it's mostly misidentified discontent. It's not the economic system that's at fault, but somehow building things in the digital world is fundamentally unsatisfying and unfulfilling, even if you get drowned in money, massages, bean bag chairs, and ping pong tables.

If people want fulfilling lives (so far as work as concerned) don't work in ad-tech. If you want stupid amounts of money work in ad-tech. You get the stupid amounts of money precisely because the work is awful and empty. It's a rather dramatically different world from Marx's time where, in general, work was awful and compensation was awful.

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306. dragonwriter ◴[] No.43513155{13}[source]
> Imagine somehow all bougies earned less than all workers. Everything Marx said would be absolutely and completely nonsensical.

I mean, it wouldn't, if they still exercised power. But...they don't, while there is overlap on the boundaries, the classes defined by modes of interaction do, across every capitalist economy (including modern mixed economies, which are not the same system as the capitalism that Marx named and addressed, but share important features with it) form on aggregate hierarchy of both power and income in the same order that as the heirarchy of power Marx describes them in, even though the ranges of individual incomes overlap.

> And in Marx's time I think it is fairly safe to say there would have been exactly 0 proles earning more than bougies.

No, definitely the most well-paid person-living-by-rented labor would have had a higher income than the least-successful owner of capital to which rented labor applied. Capitalists (then no less than now) are capable of losing money continuously, eventually reaching the point where they fall out of the bourgeoisie entirely, and even among those that are more fortunate than that, there would have been many who were technically haut bourgeois because they relied primarily on renting others labor to apply to their capital, and many more who were petit bourgeois and applying their own labor to their own capital--like homesteaders with small holdings--who would earn less the most successful hired experts.

> It's a rather dramatically different world from Marx's time where, in general, work was awful and compensation was awful.

Yes, in modern mixed economies the condition of the median worker is better than in the capitalism of Marx's time, but, in general, work is awful and compensation is awful. Sure, the small percentage of the workers in well-compensated positions like the ad-tech you point to may do amazingly well -- but that's a minute fraction of workers.

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307. somenameforme ◴[] No.43513960{14}[source]
I just looked up the exact stats and it turns out my hypothetical world isn't hypothetical. Currently the average "small business" owner takes home less than $70k a year. [1] Small business in quotes because that term has been distorted so politicians can give handouts to big business and claim they're supporting small business. 99.9% of all businesses in the US are classified as "small business" which includes companies with hundreds of employees and revenue in the tens of millions of dollars, so the "average" there is misleadingly high.

Factor in the fact that a business owner is going to be working far more hours on average, than a 'worker', and it turns out that we do live live in this apparently not-so-hypothetical world where proles make more than bougies if we just define classes by their 'modes of economic interaction'! We can argue/nitpick the specifics in Marx's time, but I don't think you can claim in good faith that the situation was even remotely like this, and his logic was largely based on the conditions that he lived in. Even the most fundamental concepts like means of production are obsolete because in modern times everybody owns the most valuable (by a very wide margin) means of production.

And the pleasure or pain of labor is always relative to itself. For most people there's about a million things they'd rather be doing than working (including for business owners), but everybody has to put food on the plate and in modern times that's so much more pleasant an endeavor that it can't really be overstated, and this applies even to relatively recent times. When I, and I assume you, were growing up don't you remember getting endlessly spammed on TV with the non-stop 'Hurt on the job? Call Mr. Ambulance Chaser at 123-4567 today, and get what you deserve!'

[1] - https://altline.sobanco.com/small-business-revenue-statistic...

308. MaKey ◴[] No.43515093{5}[source]
He's a periodontist, I've only seen him for the two gum transplants I had. It's a delicate procedure and the results were great both times, so to me he is competent.
309. Buttons840 ◴[] No.43518912{3}[source]
Disconnecting most benefits from employment would be a good start, especially healthcare. Imagine if small companies could focus on their product and customers instead of on being the entire social safety net for their employees.
310. Seattle3503 ◴[] No.43521795{6}[source]
I'm not sure why you think I was unaware of Marx.
311. bix6 ◴[] No.43523758{5}[source]
Managing capital is a vital part of any business but a small team of 5 does not have the same resources or requirements as a team of 500 or 5000.

SVB has been a vital supporter of startups for decades. Why would a resource constrained startup spend time worried about it? Money goes in and out the bank, great, that’s all most startups should need to worry about.

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312. roenxi ◴[] No.43529282{6}[source]
If you support a culture where people look at $250,000 and don't care what happens to it, then I hope you aren't surprised when it turns out the management class are serially incompetent. Their literal responsibility is to look at large amounts of capital and decide what happens to it.

The startups had a strategy of pooling their money - their huge amount of money, as it turns out - into a fund run by people who couldn't keep a bank solvent. If you want to shield the people doing that from consequences then, frankly, you don't have an interest in running a high-integrity system geared to competence. Because there need to be direct and painful consequences to an action that stupid. Oh there are only 5 of them! Well there is only 1 of me and I can tell you how dumb they were in isolation. The only reason to act this way and keep all the eggs in one high-risk basket is because of an assumption that the government will come in and conduct bailouts if any risk eventuates. IE, a management class that doesn't ever expect to succeed on their own merits. Although since the bailouts did happen that suggests that sticking to a dumb strategy is what winners should do.

The entire capital management system here is out of control.

313. skyyler ◴[] No.43534889{11}[source]
>For that matter bougies in modern times don't make wealth their from buying labor power - they mostly just dump money into investments

Investments into what? Businesses?

Businesses that have employees? Employees that are selling their labour? Who are they selling their labour to?

314. bsenftner ◴[] No.43535150{4}[source]
What happened to this line of thinking? Did you pursue?