I see apple as like LVMH, but for phones. It has a minority of overall sales, but a majority of the “luxury” part of the market. This gives them influence over the whole market, but not a real monopoly.
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Both of these companies need to have their asses handed to them. Not just by the US DOJ, but by every country. What we do with our phones is bigger and more important than two companies that got there first. They'll still have their trillions dollar market caps after the DOJ tells them they must allow web installs.
Apple and Google's only role should be to provide a hermetic sandbox with permissions layer and do occasional malware scans. That's it. Once we buy the devices, they're ours, and these companies should have no say as to what innovation takes place and what customer relationships are built after the initial sales are made.
Tim Cook made it a juggernaut that holds more than half the market in many areas, can buyout whole supplies of a specific technology (e.g. TSMC and their 3nm process?), influences the relationships with a whole country (China) and has the size to weather most battles (e.g. the fight with the EU).
That's why DOJ (same DOJ that let Epstein walk because he "belonged to intelligence") won't do any such thing.
I have an iPhone. It just does its job. Updates in the background. Repairs are a peach, especially by mail. They don’t spam me.
If you’re asking why it’s luxury, it’s a combination of the materials, machining and service experience. Luxury products aren’t necessarily better, certainly not for someone who can’t afford them. They’re simply more luxurious. Easier, more comfortable, et cetera.
So what makes an iPhone more luxurious than say, a Galaxy S24 Ultra, Z Fold 6, Pixel 9 Pro XL or 9 Pro Fold?
The machine quality is totally different.
> what makes an iPhone more luxurious than say, a Galaxy S24 Ultra, Z Fold 6, Pixel 9 Pro XL or 9 Pro Fold
Start with the BOM.
This notably doesn't even achieve it's supposed goal of keep anything secure from anyone - bypasses are found usually days after it's "fixed". That only leaves the conclusion that Google wants to make it painful so as to discourage anyone from stepping out of line. Because that's the only thing it actually achieves, and it does so remarkably well.
I've had this while trying to install apps on an iPad (you need a payment method if the free app you're downloading has extra paid stuff you could buy from it, but why would they need to tell you that) and with their TV+ service where downloading too many (how much? who knows) things at the same time, like you're about to board a long haul flight, gets them stuck in a loop without downloading.
Another one of my favourites is "A USB device is consuming too much power, try disconnecting and reconnecting it" without any way of identifying which device it is.
I haven't found the need to root mine, there's plenty of flexibility in unrooted Android. I use the browser (actual browser, with its own engine), password manager, search engine, PWAs, email app, launcher of my choice. I use F-Droid for generic apps (like QR code reader).
When I say machine quality, though, I’m referring to their titanium and aluminum. I’ve machined some aluminum and know people who have done titanium. It’s really hard, and they do it well.
What does that add to the user experience? I can’t say it’s anything tangible. But I appreciate it. That’s luxury. It’s orthogonal to utility in many ways.
Nevertheless it’s nowhere near the powerful experience that was palm OS when it was selling palm pre and the like
- Please tell me, what's stopping us from being seen as a true luxury brand?
- More than one calculator window.
Computers (Macs) - Lenovo, HP, Dell, Microsoft, etc.
Tablets (iPads) - Samsung, Microsoft, etc.
Phones (iPhones) - Samsung, Google, etc.
Smart Watches (Apple Watch) - Samsung, Garmin, etc.
Cloud Storage Services (iCloud) - Google, Microsoft, Amazon, etc.
Bluetooth Audio Devices (AirPods) - Samsung, Sony, Bose, etc.
Bluetooth tracking tags (AirTags) - Tile
TV Streaming Boxes (AppleTV) - Roku, Amazon, Google, etc.
VR Headsets (Apple Vision Pro) - Meta/Oculus
Am I missing any major product categories for Apple here? They aren't even close to holding majority market share in most of those categories I listed.
(I’m not interested in the green-bubble stuff; that argument holds no weight with me - especially since iOS supports RCS now)
I'm used to actual luxury goods, watches and clothing for example, where the quality is very much noticeably better. A Rolex or Audemars has way more attention to detail than, say, a Tissot or Tag which has far nicer materials than a Timex. Or suits, the kinds of fabric on higher end suits are very noticeable.
Or luxury restaurants. Where the ingredients, techniques, staffing levels and attention to detail far surpass normal restaurants.
Whereas with iPhone versus Samsung S24 Ultra, both are titanium, Samsung has nicer glass, less bevel and more utility (also costs more). The only real difference is Apple has much better marketing and their stores are nicer. Better logo too. Beyond that, there's no quantifiable quality advantage.
For instance if the EU or the DOJ were to require Apple to change their policies, we could say Apple isn't forced to do so, as they still can refuse and "just" pay enormous fines until bankruptcy.
I'm not sure what we would call "force" if we take that definition.
Apple knows that they are a premium fashion brand. It was what Jobs was aiming for from day one.
Can tech fashion be its own market segment?
How unchivalrous of them.
I have no earthly idea what Apple has done to earn 30% of the sale of an eBook by Amazon for the Kindle.
I have no idea if the cut is 30%, but that's the same cut that Amazon takes from an author when they sell a Kindle eBook (and sometimes that goes as high as 70%). What on earth did Amazon do to earn that much of an author's sale...
I have little sympathy for Amazon, the largest retailer in the world, trying to play in someone else's playground. You can buy directly from your Kindle if you really have to have that browse-and-buy experience, but the iPhone app really is more convenient, isn't it?
For instance if Apple had to pay a global total of 2 millions of fine every year for their AppStore policy, it would be rolled in as cost of doing business and they'd keep ignoring the rulings for decades. If Amazon only had minor punishment for breaking AppSore rules they'd do it yesterday.
A binding contract is only as strong as its penalties, and in that regard we can see laws a form of contract and vice versa.
About as hard as opening a new phone network rivaling ATT back in the days, apparently.
If neither Amazon nor Microsoft couldn't do it you know it's not a matter of money and willingness to do it.
I don't know how much it made sense when it was to allow blind UI navigation (could have been a "navigation" or "interactions" setting).
But nowadays with the amount of stuff in there, including permissions for password managers, animation reduction, audio EQ etc., it just makes less and less sense.
This is not meant to be an Android vs iOS debate. I am trying to point out that your perspective is incredibly dismissive of the real reasons iOS is gaining market share.
However, even that doesn’t fit what we see. Their pricing isn’t luxury - compare Google or Samsung’s flagship phones and it’s basically equal, nothing remotely like the significant cost differential we see between normal and luxury clothes or other personal goods, and that’s before you factor in the lead they have on features like performance or security. Buying a Mercedes costs multiple times more and won’t get you to work faster but buying an iPhone will load every web page faster than an Android phone at the same price point, for example.
No, I mean luxury good. I upgraded my phone for satellite-based emergency SOS and the titanium form factor. Those are luxuries. Same for my 2020 Mac and M1.
Apple’s products aren’t priced high enough to function as Veblen goods in most developed-country social circles. They’re a mass market product.
Yes. Me too. We’re rich and accustomed to luxury on HN. News at 11.
I don’t like the S24. Part of that is familiarity with iOS, which makes Android’s interface and design language feel clunky. Part of that is the squared-off look. I don’t deny that it’s a luxury product, too.
> Rolex or Audemars
Good example. I know plenty of watch connoisseurs who don’t believe Rolex makes a luxury product. They use similar arguments to yours, down to details of the movement and price. I think they’re wrong on designation even if I, too, don’t like Rolex either. (Patek and Vacheron Constantin.)
I do not know the real reasons, but I have heard 2 things repeated often:
1 -- the ability to work smoothly with other apple products, which is sort of a circular argument, but it makes it harder or costlier to switch away from apple, so could tend to increase market share.
2 - There were a ton of recent articles about teenagers being made to feel inferior for having an android phone instead of an iphone, which fits with the fashion aspect.
There are of course other reasons why people say they prefer iphone, but I find it difficult to distinguish what people think is better from what they are simply already accustomed to.
If you're referring to the Nokia acquisition, it was way past prime and relevance, at a time when Chinese makers were already on the rise.
Fines are not an exchange of value, even if some firms attempt to treat them that way. They are also not subject to agreement. They are risk and can be arbitrary.
So no. They are not the same.