Most active commenters
  • seanmcdirmid(11)
  • lazide(5)
  • epistasis(3)
  • david-gpu(3)
  • JumpCrisscross(3)
  • (3)
  • dangus(3)
  • ghaff(3)

←back to thread

437 points Vinnl | 107 comments | | HN request time: 1.076s | source | bottom
Show context
philipallstar ◴[] No.43985073[source]
The increased speeds are excellent for those who can afford the toll. This is a universal benefit of toll roads for those people.
replies(11): >>43985179 #>>43985221 #>>43985275 #>>43985330 #>>43985416 #>>43985492 #>>43985546 #>>43990037 #>>43990827 #>>43991040 #>>43994900 #
bryanlarsen ◴[] No.43985179[source]
And the investments in public transit and bike paths are excellent for those who can't. Such unalloyed win-wins are hard to find.
replies(4): >>43985193 #>>43985280 #>>43992158 #>>43993536 #
lokar ◴[] No.43985193[source]
I lived in Manhattan, and was very well paid. I did not own a car, and loved it. This would have been great for me as well.
replies(1): >>43989879 #
1. timewizard ◴[] No.43989879[source]
Did you have children or did you live alone?
replies(7): >>43989923 #>>43990006 #>>43990154 #>>43990171 #>>43990543 #>>43991841 #>>43994594 #
2. epistasis ◴[] No.43989923[source]
As someone with children, I can not imagine the bliss of living in Manhattan and being able to do things without needing a car.

Car-centric urban planning is hell with kids. You have to load them up into the car for any small trip. You can't walk or bike anywhere because cars make it so dangerous.

My only regret about living in the US is this car hellscape that is so hard to avoid. It's mandated by law, not chosen by the market.

replies(11): >>43990148 #>>43990307 #>>43990698 #>>43991140 #>>43991245 #>>43992028 #>>43992079 #>>43992259 #>>43993909 #>>43995624 #>>43998539 #
3. andrepd ◴[] No.43990006[source]
I'm already imagining what kind of arguments you are preparing. Kids are infinitely better off somewhere they can just bike places with their friends, compared to a car-centric hellhole: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHlpmxLTxpw
4. grugagag ◴[] No.43990148[source]
Having a dinky appartment that is still expensive is not worth it unless you’re young and don’t have kids and want to be around everything you care about. Or you’re rich and don’t mind paying a fortune to live in a nicer appartment in Manhattan. If I had the money I would still prefer something outside Manhattan just to be able to avoid the noise pollution, the crowds and all that Manhattan commotion.
replies(2): >>43990555 #>>43990624 #
5. donohoe ◴[] No.43990154[source]
I live in Brooklyn with kids and do not have a car. Equally possible in Manhattan - have car-less friends with kids there too.

Just saying it is possible, and certainly not everyone’s choice.

replies(1): >>43990742 #
6. weeksie ◴[] No.43990171[source]
I live in Manhattan with a kid and I love not needing a car. I walk my daughter to school and I walk to work from there. It's great.
7. seanmcdirmid ◴[] No.43990307[source]
You can live in an urban neighborhood and only use your car a few times a week (mostly on weekends and for yearly kid doctor visits). Its not just Manhattan, Seattle supports this as well (well, you still "need" a car, but you can get away with not driving it very often). You need to be strategic about where you live (e.g. buying the house 7 minutes away from your kid's K-8 and 10 minutes away from his future 9-12, with grocery stores and dentists nearby).
replies(3): >>43990790 #>>43990799 #>>43990807 #
8. 9283409232 ◴[] No.43990543[source]
Car-centric design is hell for parents and kids alike.
replies(1): >>43991084 #
9. david-gpu ◴[] No.43990555{3}[source]
I hear that noise pollution in Manhattan has gotten better since congestion pricing started.

Cities aren't loud; cars are loud.

replies(2): >>43990600 #>>43990887 #
10. SecretDreams ◴[] No.43990600{4}[source]
> Cities aren't loud; cars are loud.

EVs have entered the chat

Still, I'd always prefer less cars and more transit.

replies(3): >>43990651 #>>43990690 #>>43990889 #
11. toomuchtodo ◴[] No.43990624{3}[source]
Almost 60% of US households have no kids in them [1]. We can infer demand for Manhattan housing stock by vacancy rates and rent levels [2] [3] [4] [5].

[1] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/how-american-households-hav...

[2] https://www.mns.com/manhattan_rental_market_report

[3] https://inhabit.corcoran.com/nyc-residential-rental-market-r...

[4] https://www.brickunderground.com/rent/nyc-manhattan-brooklyn...

[5] https://www.elliman.com/corporate-resources/market-reports/n...

12. david-gpu ◴[] No.43990651{5}[source]
In my experience, EVs are nearly as loud as IC, as the majority of the noise at typical stroad speeds comes from the tires, not the engine.
replies(2): >>43991050 #>>43991682 #
13. tekla ◴[] No.43990690{5}[source]
The engine noises in cities are generally not a huge problem outside of trucks (or POS cars modified to make noise).

The issue that people apparently think that the horn makes the red light turn green faster or will magic away the car blocking the box.

14. danbmil99 ◴[] No.43990698[source]
One word: baby carriages up and down stairs
replies(5): >>43990903 #>>43990971 #>>43992041 #>>43992553 #>>43992570 #
15. vb234 ◴[] No.43990742[source]
Same. We live in Manhattan with two kids and owning a car is just an added expense without much benefit. To be fair, if you lived further out in Brooklyn (Bayridge, Sussex Beach and Coney Island) you probably need a car for the day to day.
replies(2): >>43990980 #>>43991205 #
16. scuol ◴[] No.43990790{3}[source]
s/strategic/wealthy/

I agree there are places in Seattle one can do this, but boy one certainly needs the paper to do this.

replies(2): >>43991259 #>>43991268 #
17. gertlex ◴[] No.43990799{3}[source]
> You need to be strategic about where you live (e.g. buying the house ...

I wonder what % (presumably low) of the population can live in SFHs and achieve this cities like Seattle.

I should try finding if there's available work that's made visualizations of this sort of things ("How many homes could be within X miles or minutes of A B and C" for SFH, Quadplex, 5-over-1s etc.)

replies(2): >>43991072 #>>43991893 #
18. echelon ◴[] No.43990807{3}[source]
Self-driving cars are going to turn America's car-centric "hellscape" into a superpower with untold second order benefits.

Everything will be connected and commutable, especially the suburbs. Automated, on-demand delivery will become a part of everyday life.

Instead of busses and semis, we'll have small pods for smaller cargo and small parties. Highways will turn into logistics corridors, and we'll route people and goods seamlessly.

All the clamor for trains and rail will go away when our roads become an even superior version of that. Private commuting to any destination, large homes with lots of land, same day delivery of everything.

replies(4): >>43990939 #>>43990965 #>>43991087 #>>43991708 #
19. nradov ◴[] No.43990887{4}[source]
Cars aren't nearly as loud as sirens and garbage trucks. Whenever I stay in a dense city those tend to keep me up at night.
replies(3): >>43991046 #>>43991180 #>>43991520 #
20. dogsgobork ◴[] No.43990889{5}[source]
I first heard the phrase used by parent in a video [1] by youtube channel Not Just Bikes, which found EVs to be similar to ICE cars at typical speeds.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTV-wwszGw8

replies(1): >>43992203 #
21. parpfish ◴[] No.43990903{3}[source]
That’s six words
22. sorcerer-mar ◴[] No.43990939{4}[source]
just one more lane bro I swear that's it it's just one more lane then the traffic will go away
replies(1): >>43991634 #
23. nick_ ◴[] No.43990965{4}[source]
lol
24. lokar ◴[] No.43990971{3}[source]
Elevator
replies(1): >>43991365 #
25. askafriend ◴[] No.43990980{3}[source]
Overall, would you recommend Manhattan (or nearby) with kids? What's your experience been like and do you see staying long term?

Hope you don't mind me asking, I'm just super curious about this topic!

replies(1): >>43997798 #
26. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.43991046{5}[source]
> Cars aren't nearly as loud as sirens and garbage trucks

Guess what forces emergency vehicles to fire their sirens, or garbage trucks to linger.

replies(1): >>43993942 #
27. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.43991050{6}[source]
> the majority of the noise at typical stroad speeds comes from the tires, not the engine

It comes from honking.

28. seanmcdirmid ◴[] No.43991072{4}[source]
You aren’t exactly going to find an SFH in the suburbs that is much cheaper. So you have a point, but you have to choose between an SFH, a similar priced townhome (basically an SFH without a yard), or a condo with an HOA, all basically unaffordable unless you want to commute from Kent or Marysville. Seattle still has density (the townhome I live in in Ballard is one of three that used to be one SFH).
replies(1): >>44001752 #
29. efavdb ◴[] No.43991084[source]
FWIW I like driving my kid to school in my car. YMMV
replies(2): >>43991190 #>>44000442 #
30. seanmcdirmid ◴[] No.43991087{4}[source]
China is going to reap more benefits from self driving cars, but they also have (in many cities at least) mass transit in place to truly do multi-modal trips (self driving cars at the end tips of subway rides).

The problem with self driving cars is that they can only optimize road bandwidth a bit more than they are now (and even then, only if you outlaw human drivers), they aren’t a magical shortcut to increasing bandwidth beyond indicated demand (like mass transit can).

replies(1): >>43991188 #
31. mancerayder ◴[] No.43991140[source]
Oof. I know people with kids in the city, and it seems like if you're taking public transit, it's a nightmare when they're little.

(When they're teenagers who knows, you have new problems)

People who live outside of Manhattan have more space and sometimes the optional car.

The professionals are paying an absolute fortune for child care, a salary's worth, and more for bigger apartments in nice neighborhoods.

It's no joke. You'd better be obsessed with the city, or a short commute, because otherwise you're moving to Westchester or NJ or LI.

replies(1): >>43991270 #
32. SchemaLoad ◴[] No.43991180{5}[source]
Without cars, emergency vehicles could have their sirens at 10% of the volume. Garbage trucks and busses are slowly being replaced by electric versions which are much quieter.
replies(1): >>43991293 #
33. fallingknife ◴[] No.43991188{5}[source]
The multi-modal hassle is why cars are so popular in the first place.
replies(1): >>43991253 #
34. SchemaLoad ◴[] No.43991190{3}[source]
I hated feeling completely stranded as a kid since nothing was accessible by foot or PT. Even today visiting my parents outer suburban house feels like being dumped on an island.

My social life as a teenager was incredibly limited by the fact that I couldn't just jump on a bus and meet up with everyone else who lived in areas with PT coverage.

replies(1): >>43994428 #
35. whoodle ◴[] No.43991205{3}[source]
Any rough guess the min income to raise a kid in manhattan nowadays?
replies(1): >>43992195 #
36. tetromino_ ◴[] No.43991245[source]
> As someone with children, I can not imagine the bliss of living in Manhattan and being able to do things without needing a car.

Lifting a 2 toddler stroller up and down narrow, crowded NYC subway stairs is the exact opposite of bliss. Perhaps you are unaware that many subway stations still don't have elevators (or escalators, for that matter) - only stairs. And where the elevators exist, it seems half the time they are out of order...

replies(5): >>43991302 #>>43991361 #>>43991400 #>>43992246 #>>43992410 #
37. seanmcdirmid ◴[] No.43991253{6}[source]
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. I just got back from Beijing and long journeys across the city in a taxi...they aren't really feasible. Yes, comfortable, but no, the traffic is still really really bad. Subway is much quicker, but the routes are often indirect and require one or two changes, but at least you know you'll get where you need to go.
replies(1): >>43991911 #
38. bobthepanda ◴[] No.43991259{4}[source]
Seattle is weird in that drive til you qualify is not a thing unless you start getting really far out. Some inner ring neighborhoods and suburbs are comparable or more expensive than the core.
replies(1): >>43991775 #
39. seanmcdirmid ◴[] No.43991268{4}[source]
You make a tradeoff. You are still going to plop down $1 million for a home unless you live way out there, but instead of a 2000 foot SFH in Bothell or Lynwood, you make do with a 1250 foot townhome in Ballard (same price, less property taxes, more urban). Ballard isn't exactly Capitol Hill or Queen Anne either (we thought about Magnolia just across the locks, but it made me think that I would at least need an electric cargo bike to make most days work without a car).
replies(1): >>43996060 #
40. epistasis ◴[] No.43991270{3}[source]
My little kids looove transit. We take the bus all the time in my small town. We visit San Francisco almost weekly it's how we get around after parking. And we usually start our day in SOMA, an area that is not the nicest. We also frequently take the new central subway. I have not experienced a nightmare yet. Maybe Manhattan is more of a nightmare.

I have no doubt that Manhattan is expensive, but my greater point is that it would be great. A lot of very expensive things are great.

replies(1): >>43991717 #
41. nradov ◴[] No.43991293{6}[source]
Electric garbage trucks aren't much quieter. I've heard them. Most of the noise comes from the machinery and the reverse beeping, not the engines.
42. bluGill ◴[] No.43991302{3}[source]
The nyc subway is incompetent at building and has been for decades. But since nobody cares they get buy with ignoring disability and calling it hard even though cities around the world with things just as hard have managed. Those other cities have also done subway expantion is much harder situations at far less cost.
43. epistasis ◴[] No.43991361{3}[source]
We bought a very fancy and expensive 2 toddler stroller when we had two toddlers and it saw almost no use because it was a hassle pretty much everywhere. I advise all new parents to avoid purchasing one until there's a proven need, and I don't know any other parents that thought it was a good idea to purchase one. I'm sure it's great for some kids, but certainly not mine or even most kids. I honestly don't understand the use case for it except for nap-time strolls around the neighborhood (and how often do they both sleep at the same time?) or maybe amusement parks when there's 3+ hours on your feet.
replies(2): >>43991598 #>>43991960 #
44. TylerE ◴[] No.43991365{4}[source]
Only 26% of NYC due way stations have elevators.
replies(1): >>43992056 #
45. WalterBright ◴[] No.43991400{3}[source]
When I can, I always take the stairs. It's usually vacant, while the escalator is packed.

I used to work on the second floor. My colleagues would all push the button for the elevator, and wait, wait, wait. I'd be at my desk before they reached the 2nd floor. (Some of them were jocks.)

In my 20s, I worked a stint on the 6th floor. I'd run up the stairs to try and beat the elevator. I'd poop out on the 5th and have to walk the last flight.

I don't understand why I am the only such person. It's just pure joy to run up and down the stairs. One day I won't be able to anymore, and that will make me sad.

replies(2): >>43991755 #>>43993115 #
46. tetromino_ ◴[] No.43991598{4}[source]
> I honestly don't understand the use case for it

You have 2 toddlers. You frequently wish to take them to visit friends / parks / supermarkets / libraries / doctors / coffee shops / whatever other places near your location. Such places happen to be 10-20 minutes adult-speed walk from you. Kids are young enough that they cannot reliably walk towards a fixed goal for 10+ minutes, and certainly not at adult speed; they often get either tired or distracted or decide they want to go somewhere else. Kids are old and heavy enough that neither of them can be carried in a carrier. Optimal solution: 2 toddler stroller.

47. KingMob ◴[] No.43991634{5}[source]
Road lanes are like CPU cores. And like CPUs, adding more cores does not linearly scale up traffic capacity.

In the case of CPUs, there's sync and communication overhead; for highways, there's more turbulence and slowdown generated by lane-switching.

replies(2): >>43991737 #>>43992402 #
48. KingMob ◴[] No.43991682{6}[source]
Isn't that mostly applicable to highway speeds? Does tire noise have much of an effect at city speeds?
replies(2): >>43991728 #>>43997600 #
49. jcranmer ◴[] No.43991708{4}[source]
Self-driving cars are the magic pixie dust of transportation planning, brought out to justify noninvestment in public transit.

As a mode of transportation, self-driving cars already exist--they're basically a taxicab service, the main difference being that some people hope that self-driving might magically make the cost of providing a taxi service cheaper.

> Instead of busses and semis, we'll have small pods for smaller cargo and small parties. Highways will turn into logistics corridors, and we'll route people and goods seamlessly.

"Lots of small things going point-to-point" is a much more difficult problem to route, especially at high throughput, than "bundle things into large containers that get broken apart near their destination." In the space of transit, your idea is known as Personal Rapid Transit (PRT), and PRT systems have invariably underwhelmed every time they've been built, as they struggle to live up to their promise.

Rail transit is incredibly efficient at moving large numbers of people--a metro line can easily move a dozen lanes of highway traffic--and there is nothing that you can do to roads to make them approach that level of efficiency, in part because the routing problems are insurmountable.

50. Spooky23 ◴[] No.43991717{4}[source]
SFO Muni is a better system than New York.

For all of the doom and gloom that I expected on my trip there, I thought that system was amazing. The rest of the city was too, if anything there’s more vacancy in Manhattan, but more crazy people in SFO.

51. Spooky23 ◴[] No.43991728{7}[source]
Yes. I live in a small city. Along a moderately busy avenue with speeds around 25 mph, it’s hard to carry a conversation. 30 feet down a side street, totally different story.
52. seanmcdirmid ◴[] No.43991737{6}[source]
That's why we are focusing on adding GPU cores instead, but they can only do the same operation on a lot of data in parallel (much like mass transit).
53. deinonychus ◴[] No.43991755{4}[source]
>I don't understand why I am the only such person. It's just pure joy to run up and down the stairs. One day I won't be able to anymore, and that will make me sad.

this was charming to read!

54. bitmasher9 ◴[] No.43991775{5}[source]
If you want to head straight south or straight north you won’t have to go further out than 1 hour before rents and property values fall significantly from city center Seattle. Tacoma is 30 minutes away without traffic and has a median home price 40% less than Seattle. Drive till you qualify is real.

If you want to head east, you’re running into the real estate aftermath of Microsoft making tens of thousands of millionaires in the 90s and 00s. You won’t save much money there.

replies(3): >>43991974 #>>43992330 #>>43995339 #
55. throwaway2037 ◴[] No.43991841[source]
The children part I understand, but why is it important is the OP lived alone?
56. divbzero ◴[] No.43991893{4}[source]
Walk Score can provide an estimate of walkability for any given address.

https://www.walkscore.com/

57. throwaway2037 ◴[] No.43991911{7}[source]
If you ride the subway enough in Beijing or Shanghai, eventually you will come to the conclusion that both cities are just way too big. No matter how many subways that you build, getting from one place to another takes a minimum of 45 mins (including some walking on both ends). New York, London, Seoul, and Tokyo all suffer from similar problems -- giant metro systems, but these cities are huge.
replies(2): >>43992644 #>>43995980 #
58. jaza ◴[] No.43991960{4}[source]
My twins spent several hours in their stroller (bugaboo donkey) on many days, back when they were toddlers (a lot of that time being spent having their afternoon nap in the stroller). Living in Sydney Australia. Similar car-centric problems to most US cities. But I guess we're lucky to live walking distance from parks, supermarkets, childcare centres (and now school), and a train station. And the stroller fitted folded-up in the boot (aka trunk) of our (small hatchback!) car. And our train station (and our most common destination stations) has a lift (aka elevator - Sydney has successfully been rolling out a project [1] to install lifts in more and more of its ageing train stations over the past decade). I couldn't imagine having managed, back then, without a 2-toddler stroller.

[1] https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/transport-access-p...

replies(1): >>43992186 #
59. lelandbatey ◴[] No.43991974{6}[source]
Yeah, the Eastside is a real estate hellscape. Everything east of Lake Washington till highway 203/18 is genuinely quite bad. I had cheaper rent on top of Queen Anne, 1 block from the Trader Joe's, than any place of comparable walk/transit on the east side ($2065/month for a 2 bedroom 1.75 bathroom apartment+1 parking place, ~950sq/ft).
replies(2): >>43992230 #>>43995825 #
60. ◴[] No.43992028[source]
61. ◴[] No.43992041{3}[source]
62. dangus ◴[] No.43992056{5}[source]
This statistic looks really bad but a large number of subway stations are very close to each other, so it's rather easy to find an alternative accessible station somewhat nearby in many cases (especially in Manhattan)

When the MTA prioritizes accessibility projects they take this into consideration and prioritize stations that have few options for alternatives.

I will also point out that buses exist in NYC.

replies(2): >>43994401 #>>44001526 #
63. doctoboggan ◴[] No.43992079[source]
I live in Chicago and use a cargo ebike with a child seat for probably 90% of my trips. I can take my kid to school, go shopping, and go to my office on my bike, often quicker than if I were to take a car.

Chicago has (recently?) put a lot of focus on their bike infrastructure (protected bike lanes, bike signals, bike only paths, etc) and it seems pretty widely used.

replies(2): >>43993916 #>>43995303 #
64. baq ◴[] No.43992186{5}[source]
The donkey is an amazing stroller. We also used a double decker trike with larger wheels, worked very well. Can’t remember the exact model, unfortunately.
65. baq ◴[] No.43992195{4}[source]
More
66. Symbiote ◴[] No.43992203{6}[source]
I find EVs noticeably quieter, but the "typical speeds" here in Copenhagen are properly lower than where you live.

At 30km/h or so, the main noise is the engine, so EVs are quieter (as the video says).

67. lodovic ◴[] No.43992230{7}[source]
Really curious what would amount to 1.75 bathroom, I'm unfamiliar with the concept. One full bathroom and a second with just a a toilet/sink combination?
replies(1): >>43992346 #
68. occz ◴[] No.43992246{3}[source]
How great then that a large injection of revenue from the congestion pricing is coming to help add disability accommodation to the subway stations in NYC.
69. CalRobert ◴[] No.43992259[source]
Being able to raise kids without a car is why we moved to NL. The US is a hellscape
70. seanmcdirmid ◴[] No.43992330{6}[source]
With traffic, Tacoma isn’t very viable. Also I have a relative who commuted to his job in Tacoma from…west Seattle (granted they bought in the late 80s). It was an easy reverse commute (so close to actually 30 minutes?), going the other way is hard and you can only win with the train (sounder) or maybe bus. Link is making its way down to federal way soon (or already?) but that assumes you work near a station or it quickly becomes not competitive with driving.

My mom commuted to Redmond from Bothell when I was in high school, horrible traffic…and that was early 90s. You don’t want to do anything on 405 during rush hour.

You can also head west if you dare. I have a coworker commuting in from Vashon Island. I don’t think prices are that great on the islands though, maybe 30-20% less than Seattle, but you live by the ferry schedule and if you want something near the ferry dock you’ll pay a lot more for that walk on convenience.

replies(1): >>43992521 #
71. seanmcdirmid ◴[] No.43992346{8}[source]
That is 1.5. A 1.75 is usually a small bathroom with a shower. The space would have no room for a tub. These often get counted as full baths anyways.
replies(1): >>43995378 #
72. rcpt ◴[] No.43992402{6}[source]
Adding more lanes encourages more driving. That's why it never reduces traffic
replies(1): >>43993624 #
73. rcpt ◴[] No.43992410{3}[source]
I did that it wasn't so bad. Definitely preferable to not finishing work because you need to drive one kid to gymnastics and the other one to jiu jitsu
74. bobthepanda ◴[] No.43992521{7}[source]
The ferry is also so expensive that you’d probably eat up a lot of savings using that as your commute method.
replies(1): >>43992547 #
75. seanmcdirmid ◴[] No.43992547{8}[source]
It depends how often you need to show up at the office. Honestly, if you live near the dock and work downtown, and only need to show up 2 days a week, it can work. Otherwise it sounds like too much if a hassle to me..
76. ◴[] No.43992553{3}[source]
77. walthamstow ◴[] No.43992570{3}[source]
In London we just help each other. Someone approaches stairs with a pram and they'll get a "would you like a hand with that?"

The only people I see carrying a pram up/down stairs without help are dads who were happy to do it themselves.

78. lazide ◴[] No.43992644{8}[source]
That’s why you often end up with ‘cities within a city’ (ala wards, boroughs, districts, etc) and in those cases it’s easier to mentally model the overall city more like a small state.

If you’re sensitive to commute time, you’ll want to live in the same ‘city’ as you work, for instance, or at least nearby. But it will cost you a lot of money, and you’ll get a closet.

If you want the ‘big house with a lawn’ experience, you’ll pick a distant ‘city’ or even another ‘state’ (in this case, a city in a nearby suburb).

Typical case, it’s an hour+ end to end from one side to the other even on the fastest transit for Tokyo or London, and they have really good transit systems.

Singapore similar when it’s busy (which is actually quite a feat considering how small of an island it is).

It’s been awhile since I’ve been in Manhattan, but I remember it being roughly 1-2 hrs too.

Mega cities like Mumbai? Double that.

79. Thlom ◴[] No.43993115{4}[source]
The only life advise I've ever taken seriously is to always take the stairs.
replies(1): >>43996998 #
80. ceejayoz ◴[] No.43993624{7}[source]
Same with computers. More power and bandwidth and storage space has largely meant our apps and websites have grown to fill it.
81. lazide ◴[] No.43993909[source]
It depends on the age of the kids - if the kids can effectively self ambulate (8+ is usually old enough to have the stamina for a lengthy trip on public transit), then your options aren’t super limited by dealing with them.

Younger kids, you need to live where you can reach everything you’ll need to acceptable quality within walking distance or a limited number of subway stops, unless you really like dealing with a Stroller in the subway. Not always an easy feat.

Areas like that tend to be very expensive, and be very difficult to actually find spots. You then are susceptible to quality changes hurting your ‘investment’. People who can afford that can also afford one or more Nannies and other helpers.

In my experience, a lot of the skill set required is to be very competitive and have a lot of money to throw around, which requires a mindset that most would not call ‘cushy’ or easy going.

The ‘mandated by law’ bit is a bit of a misnomer. It’s structural due to a number of other market conditions, including available land (leading to lower population density, etc), which are impacted by laws, which also impact market conditions.

It’s an ouroboros, not an arrow.

South Asia has ~ 8x US pop density, Western Europe ~4x, and East Asia roughly 3x.

It’s no surprise it is how it is. The US is low density. The math generally works out differently.

82. lazide ◴[] No.43993916{3}[source]
I’ve experienced Chicago winters.

Do you put the kid in that seat?!?

replies(2): >>43995027 #>>43996448 #
83. lazide ◴[] No.43993942{6}[source]
bwahaha this is so ridiculous.
replies(1): >>43998954 #
84. dangus ◴[] No.43994401{6}[source]
I also think it’s funny that people bring up NYC transit accessibility statistics when it’s not like the cars that people are forced to drive in just about every other city are accessible.

And of course there are different types of disability. You’d much rather be blind in NYC than blind in Omaha Nebraska in regard to your ability to get around.

85. hombre_fatal ◴[] No.43994428{4}[source]
Yeah, most of us have no idea how bad we have it until we live somewhere where it's different.

The idea of walking/biking to school or walking with your friends to the cafe after school to hang out, or bumping into friends while walking home from a bar is so alien to Americans that it's not even on their radar.

We get a glimpse of it when we go on vacation to Prague or Disneyland or something. But when we return home, we immediately relegate the experience to something exotic you do on vacation rather than something you can actually have.

86. throw0101c ◴[] No.43994594[source]
> Did you have children or did you live alone?

With regards to children, some couples do have them and concluded that a car in the city is not worth the hassle; famous example:

* https://www.instagram.com/cargobikemomma/

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PoKcQRlDGs (interview)

Car share would also be handy in some situations. Or even going from two cars to one.

87. doctoboggan ◴[] No.43995027{4}[source]
Yes, with a warm coat and this full enclosure[0] she was happy in the winter.

[0]: https://betterabound.familybikeride.org/img/winter-kit.jpg

88. ghaff ◴[] No.43995303{3}[source]
>protected bike lanes

I'm certainly not opposed. But my observation in the relatively nearby city when I go in and sit on the sidewalk at a restaurant is that the fairly new protected bike lanes have a fairly terrifying combination of transportation modes (bikes, ebikes, things that I guess are ebikes but look almost like small motorbikes, escooters, and pedestrians crossing). And then, because they're in a bike lane, many seem to assume the signal at the next street doesn't apply to them.

Not sure of the best answer.

89. ghaff ◴[] No.43995339{6}[source]
Yeah, it varies in a lot of cities. I live about an hour (given not a lot of traffic--hah!) west of Boston and the real estate prices aren't cheap but not crazy. A lot of the tech industry was out that way anyway historically until pharma and outposts of west coast companies took over Kendall Square. But certainly a lot of the coastal towns north and south of the city are pretty pricey.
90. ghaff ◴[] No.43995378{9}[source]
Yeah. A lot of us prefer a shower to a bathtub with shower anyway. But it's probably an important distinction for people with kids especially.
91. dfxm12 ◴[] No.43995624[source]
What is the danger compared to riding in cars, which is dangerous too? What about other alternatives like bus or subway?

With fewer cars on the road, thanks to the congestion pricing, we'll probably see safer roads for all users, as well.

92. int_19h ◴[] No.43995825{7}[source]
Why stop at WA-18, though? I-90 is wide and not particularly busy past that point even at peak times, so you can easily get to North Bend in only a few more minutes.

The real cutoff point for commuting to Seattle is just past exit 34, because that's where they close Snoqualmie Pass when there's too much snow.

93. seanmcdirmid ◴[] No.43995980{8}[source]
At least you can often sit down in Tokyo if you aren't traveling on peak. In Beijing, you never get to sit unless you are clever about your route (e.g. taking the line 10 the long way around when going to West Beijing, rather than transferring to line 1 in guomao). A 1 hour+ trip standing feels a lot longer than 1 hour.

As you say, the solution of course is to not go that far on a daily basis. You can make your life convenient, as long as you are living alone.

94. scuol ◴[] No.43996060{5}[source]
Totally agree. I'm renting on the eastside at the moment, but places like Ballard and Magnolia are on my list of places to look to buy for the very reasons you mentioned. Having more space in these exurbs is "nice", but you pay the time tax every time you want to do something.

I remember coming here mid-pandemic and having white picket fences in my eyes as the company pointed me to a real estate agent. Thank god I didn't pull the trigger and buy because I would've been financially trapped (upside down) in some very unsafe urban area (e.g. south Seattle) or far-flung place (like Sultan).

replies(1): >>43996620 #
95. ty6853 ◴[] No.43996448{4}[source]
The bigger problem in the winter is the drivers get even crazier and the roads can occasionally get icy.

When I was bike only I had my arm damaged in a way that it took close to a decade to get back to normal. On another occasion I was knocked unconscious. Both occasions were drivers who left turned into a parking lot without looking, crossing a lane then going right into me in the bike lane.

A car provides a nice cushion for those sorts of happening. I think if I had a child in either case there is a good chance they would be dead.

While I support the right of people to make their own risk assessments for their family, I fear it is only a matter of time until they come to understand what I did about Chicago biking.

96. seanmcdirmid ◴[] No.43996620{6}[source]
You probably wouldn't be upside down in south Seattle, just maybe not that happy. But if you don't have kids, Georgetown is (or at least was) the hip area to be in ATM.
97. WalterBright ◴[] No.43996998{5}[source]
A friend of mine when I worked at Boeing advised me to always take the elevator, because one is only allocated so many heartbeats, and he wanted to conserve his.

He passed away from a heart attack.

replies(1): >>43997976 #
98. david-gpu ◴[] No.43997600{7}[source]
Yes, it is very noticeable at city speeds. Source: my hears every day I go out.
99. donohoe ◴[] No.43997798{4}[source]
You didn't ask me, but I can say that Manhattan and Brooklyn both are great for kids. It does vary be neighborhood though and I can speak to Brooklyn the most. Overall great parks, good schools, lots of culture and things to do. Beaches accessible by subway etc.

If you are considering a move to NYC with young kids the real thing to look at are the public elementary schools and the zones for them. That should be the north star for choosing where to live unless your kids are older.

100. Sohcahtoa82 ◴[] No.43997976{6}[source]
That line of logic to me was always just absolute wild.

Like, yeah, eventually you will die, so yes, the number of heartbeats you'll have is finite. But it's not like you get some limited allocation and when you consume them all, you're toast.

The reality is the opposite which is counterintuitive to those folks: The more heartbeats you use, the more you get. At least, that's true if your extra heartbeat usage is from aerobic exercise, not just being unhealthy and having a high resting heart rate.

101. immibis ◴[] No.43998539[source]
And, presumably, you have to take your children to places, because they can't drive.
102. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.43998954{7}[source]
You’re really claiming that a congested street isn’t meaningfully more noisy than an uncongested one, including in terms of frequency and duration of horns and sirens?
replies(1): >>44002809 #
103. Mawr ◴[] No.44000442{3}[source]
A meaningless statement unless you've tried a reasonable number of alternatives. As it is, you're just stating that you've grown accustomed to what your environment forces you to do, e.g. "I like breathing air". Good for you, but not relevant.
104. danbmil99 ◴[] No.44001526{6}[source]
The NYC buses require you to take the kid(s) out of the pram and fold it up. A total PITA

Another kvetch: using car seats in taxis. Maybe it's different now with Uber but 20 years ago the drivers hated it because you have to find the seat belt and secure the car seat...

replies(1): >>44014295 #
105. gertlex ◴[] No.44001752{5}[source]
Indeed. My intended purpose of such a tool would be to crudely illustrate the impracticality of everyone aspiring to such housing ;)
106. lazide ◴[] No.44002809{8}[source]
More noisy? Of course. But even in nice places like Chelsea - at 2am when there are no cars or congestion at all - the cops/ambulances and garbage trucks have no problem being incredibly noisy.
107. dangus ◴[] No.44014295{7}[source]
NYC parents already know this and have strollers that fold up to backpack size. The stroller market has progressed incredibly in recent years, there are strollers designed to fold with only one hand.

Ubers/taxis with car seats are no big deal as long as you’re quick about setting them up. And even then, kids are only in full blown car seats for a few short years.