←back to thread

Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

(www.nytimes.com)
437 points Vinnl | 5 comments | 13 May 25 10:43 UTC | HN request time: 0.783s | source
Show context
philipallstar ◴[14 May 25 14:36 UTC] No.43985073[source]▶
The increased speeds are excellent for those who can afford the toll. This is a universal benefit of toll roads for those people.
replies(11): >>43985179 #>>43985221 #>>43985275 #>>43985330 #>>43985416 #>>43985492 #>>43985546 #>>43990037 #>>43990827 #>>43991040 #>>43994900 #
bryanlarsen ◴[14 May 25 14:45 UTC] No.43985179[source]▶
And the investments in public transit and bike paths are excellent for those who can't. Such unalloyed win-wins are hard to find.
replies(4): >>43985193 #>>43985280 #>>43992158 #>>43993536 #
lokar ◴[14 May 25 14:47 UTC] No.43985193[source]▶
I lived in Manhattan, and was very well paid. I did not own a car, and loved it. This would have been great for me as well.
replies(1): >>43989879 #
timewizard ◴[14 May 25 22:33 UTC] No.43989879[source]▶
Did you have children or did you live alone?
replies(7): >>43989923 #>>43990006 #>>43990154 #>>43990171 #>>43990543 #>>43991841 #>>43994594 #
epistasis ◴[14 May 25 22:40 UTC] No.43989923[source]▶
As someone with children, I can not imagine the bliss of living in Manhattan and being able to do things without needing a car.

Car-centric urban planning is hell with kids. You have to load them up into the car for any small trip. You can't walk or bike anywhere because cars make it so dangerous.

My only regret about living in the US is this car hellscape that is so hard to avoid. It's mandated by law, not chosen by the market.

replies(11): >>43990148 #>>43990307 #>>43990698 #>>43991140 #>>43991245 #>>43992028 #>>43992079 #>>43992259 #>>43993909 #>>43995624 #>>43998539 #
seanmcdirmid ◴[14 May 25 23:35 UTC] No.43990307[source]▶
You can live in an urban neighborhood and only use your car a few times a week (mostly on weekends and for yearly kid doctor visits). Its not just Manhattan, Seattle supports this as well (well, you still "need" a car, but you can get away with not driving it very often). You need to be strategic about where you live (e.g. buying the house 7 minutes away from your kid's K-8 and 10 minutes away from his future 9-12, with grocery stores and dentists nearby).
replies(3): >>43990790 #>>43990799 #>>43990807 #
echelon ◴[15 May 25 01:03 UTC] No.43990807[source]▶
Self-driving cars are going to turn America's car-centric "hellscape" into a superpower with untold second order benefits.

Everything will be connected and commutable, especially the suburbs. Automated, on-demand delivery will become a part of everyday life.

Instead of busses and semis, we'll have small pods for smaller cargo and small parties. Highways will turn into logistics corridors, and we'll route people and goods seamlessly.

All the clamor for trains and rail will go away when our roads become an even superior version of that. Private commuting to any destination, large homes with lots of land, same day delivery of everything.

replies(4): >>43990939 #>>43990965 #>>43991087 #>>43991708 #
seanmcdirmid ◴[15 May 25 01:52 UTC] No.43991087[source]▶
China is going to reap more benefits from self driving cars, but they also have (in many cities at least) mass transit in place to truly do multi-modal trips (self driving cars at the end tips of subway rides).

The problem with self driving cars is that they can only optimize road bandwidth a bit more than they are now (and even then, only if you outlaw human drivers), they aren’t a magical shortcut to increasing bandwidth beyond indicated demand (like mass transit can).

replies(1): >>43991188 #
1. fallingknife ◴[15 May 25 02:09 UTC] No.43991188[source]▶
The multi-modal hassle is why cars are so popular in the first place.
replies(1): >>43991253 #
2. seanmcdirmid ◴[15 May 25 02:28 UTC] No.43991253[source]▶
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. I just got back from Beijing and long journeys across the city in a taxi...they aren't really feasible. Yes, comfortable, but no, the traffic is still really really bad. Subway is much quicker, but the routes are often indirect and require one or two changes, but at least you know you'll get where you need to go.
replies(1): >>43991911 #
3. throwaway2037 ◴[15 May 25 04:40 UTC] No.43991911[source]▶
If you ride the subway enough in Beijing or Shanghai, eventually you will come to the conclusion that both cities are just way too big. No matter how many subways that you build, getting from one place to another takes a minimum of 45 mins (including some walking on both ends). New York, London, Seoul, and Tokyo all suffer from similar problems -- giant metro systems, but these cities are huge.
replies(2): >>43992644 #>>43995980 #
4. lazide ◴[15 May 25 07:24 UTC] No.43992644{3}[source]▶
That’s why you often end up with ‘cities within a city’ (ala wards, boroughs, districts, etc) and in those cases it’s easier to mentally model the overall city more like a small state.

If you’re sensitive to commute time, you’ll want to live in the same ‘city’ as you work, for instance, or at least nearby. But it will cost you a lot of money, and you’ll get a closet.

If you want the ‘big house with a lawn’ experience, you’ll pick a distant ‘city’ or even another ‘state’ (in this case, a city in a nearby suburb).

Typical case, it’s an hour+ end to end from one side to the other even on the fastest transit for Tokyo or London, and they have really good transit systems.

Singapore similar when it’s busy (which is actually quite a feat considering how small of an island it is).

It’s been awhile since I’ve been in Manhattan, but I remember it being roughly 1-2 hrs too.

Mega cities like Mumbai? Double that.

5. seanmcdirmid ◴[15 May 25 15:22 UTC] No.43995980{3}[source]▶
At least you can often sit down in Tokyo if you aren't traveling on peak. In Beijing, you never get to sit unless you are clever about your route (e.g. taking the line 10 the long way around when going to West Beijing, rather than transferring to line 1 in guomao). A 1 hour+ trip standing feels a lot longer than 1 hour.

As you say, the solution of course is to not go that far on a daily basis. You can make your life convenient, as long as you are living alone.