The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

I recently bought a framework laptop for a daily driver when I'm not on my desktop. For context I was running NixOS on an old 2014 macbook air, and I work on the glasgow haskell compiler in my day job so I do a lot of CPU heavy tasks.

I've got to say, as long as these things are being produced I'll never go back. They are just too good and I cannot recommend them highly enough. One of the things that didn't occur to me before I bought it was that _because_ of the modular design I can switch the side the power port is on. That may not seem like much but it was a revelation the first time I sat on the couch and thought "huh I really wish this was over on that side....wait a minute!".

I've also had absolutely no problems with NixOS on my machine, even my apple earbuds easily connect via bluetooth, something that I never quite got working on my macbook.

10/10 This is damn close to my dream laptop and I'm excited a new version is on the way.

You can basically do this with macs if you still use the usb-c charger. Even with the new ones they still charge through those ports on either side.

But yeah, being able to swap those ports is great. I'm feeling the pain of having only 1 hdmi out on my laptop and the ability to just add one on sounds amazing.

Isn't there an issue if you plug in on the wrong side? I remember something about CPU and throttling.

Do Macs still favor charging via the USB-C ports on the right side? IIRC charging on the left caused overheating/throttling. I'd be interested to know if the Framework also favors a specific port for charging.

I can't even imagine how good these'll be on Alder Lake... might have to grab that i5 model.

Oh Idk actually. I was happy to learn it still works on the magsafe ones so I can still use the old charger though.

Agreed! Got one from work, and it's a beast on Fedora 36 with the 11th gen. Even the discrete-ish Iris Xe graphics are surprisingly fast. So cool that we'll actually be able to update the innards in a few years as necessary to keep it feeling fresh.

Edit: A small but nice design feature is the light that comes on to imply whether the usb-c port is charging properly. Coming from a mac that removed this feature when usb-c charging was introduced, this is a huge luxury.

This sounds like a thing that happened on the Intel ones. The M1 laptops have a large cooling overhead that would render the point moot.

That was the Intel models.

That was an intel mac thing.

FYI, we've added support for the framework to nixos-hardware. I appreciate any feedback or improvements anyone has! https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-hardware/blob/master/framewor...

The new revision with the 12-gen chips does it fix the complaints people have had about loud fan noise?

I am super on the fence between this and an arm mac - this is super customizable but the arm chips in the air are silent — no fan.

One other difference is that the M1 MacBook Pros only have one port on the right side and two on the left now, which has been annoying a few times

Not anymore. The latest Intel and all of the M1 based ones work fine from either side with no heat issues.

Ditto.

Thank you!!!

This is interesting: over the last several months, a friend has been running NixOS on a Framework and has been told by Framework employees that they can’t help him with Linux kernel issues because he’s using an unsupported OS and he’s also had lots of complaints about battery life and power management.

I love the idea of the Framework, but it seems to suffer from all the issues that made me switch to MacBooks in the first place.

Same. Only things I wish were slightly better build quality and also I've had issues with Wi-Fi disappearing of late [0], fast battery drain during suspend, as well as battery refusing to charge from zero but there's a workaround involving a dumb USB charger. Kind of hoping these are just early adopter issues and that they'll be dealt with over time.

I really hope some community hardware experts can design more modules for this thing. I want an IMU+GPS+Barometer module among other things, but I'm a software person and don't know how to design PCBs.

[0] https://community.frame.work/t/wi-fi-disappeared-and-reappea...

doyougnu was previously running NixOS on a Macbook so their bar for "working" is probably much lower than a normal person's.

I'm on Windows, but if a Linux could give me reliable power management I would switch in a heartbeat. I don't know what it would take to have sensible power management on Linux without major issues.

> if a Linux could give me reliable power management I would switch in a heartbeat

More than `powertop --auto-tune`?

I get six to eight hours on my Thinkpad, running Arch Linux.

This did not happen out of the box. I think I got like two hours of battery life before I began tuning parameters. As usual, the Arch wiki is an excellent resource even if you're running a different distro: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Power_management

Try Pop OS.

That's impressive. I've done the equivalent of tuning everything and still wound up with battery lifetime half of what it should be on Windows.

There's also specific programs that are really bad. Edge used to add 2-4 hours extra battery life when using my Surface to read PDFs. If I used Firefox, it was shorter by a very noticeable amount.

> 10/10 This is damn close to my dream laptop and I'm excited a new version is on the way.

Agreed, with the seemingly-trivial but actually real elaboration: I’m excited because there’s a new version on the way and _I can decide, piece by piece, which parts of the upgrade I want._.

Having the upgrade be a literal circuit board I can swap out is 100% the value prop for Framework and I am likewise a very happy customer to see it, even if I’m happy with the current performance of my laptop and don’t need to upgrade.

We would love to be able to provide more personalized service for different Linux distros, but we unfortunately just don't have the necessary expertise to be able to do that well.

For Linux-related service requests, we first ask that folks try an Ubuntu 22.04 or Fedora 36 Live USB (the distros we have done the most internal testing with and created setup guides for) to be able to determine whether there could be a hardware issue. Once we have verified there isn't a hardware issue, we ask that folks post in the community thread for their distro for help: https://community.frame.work/c/framework-laptop/linux/91

In practice, this works well because we have an extremely helpful and engaged community (including in many cases maintainers for that distro). Additionally, because that debugging happens in the open, any answers from it are publicly visible for future users to see.

All of that said, we'd love to find better ways to provide deeper support ourselves and are open to input. A more official path would likely still start with the most popular distros.

To be fair when MacBook move to typec one can charge on both sides for many years, and I kind of look forward to a future when all port use typec But when it comes to inside Mac by no mean compares to framework

Does suspend work reliably? Is battery life ok? Does the trackpad suck?

I’m tempted but every time I’ve tried so far to leave Mac hardware I regret it - seems even harder now with M1 performance.

Still, the framework laptop is super cool. Might be worth trying anyway.

You know, not to promote NixOS too much but the reproducibility of it makes this specific OS especially easy to support. There's already a community driven hardware support module to use [1]. If you look at it it doesn't hold a lot of things though, since NixOS is quite bleeding edge (Wi-Fi already supported) and you Framework is otherwise quite Linux friendly (Please make a 1080p-ish display tho, until Wayland is 4 real).

LPT: NixOS installs by themselves aren't good for much, use NixOS-hardware and look into power configurations if you have specific requirements.

1: https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-hardware/blob/master/framewor...

If you’re on Linux, this does the job https://community.frame.work/t/linux-fan-speed-controller-wi...

Except the M1 Air and 13 inch M1 Pro reverted to left side only (the new models with M1 Pro/Max chips have an extra USB-C on the opposite side). It's my only real gripe with the M1 laptops compared to older Intel Macs.

Of course, the Framework is the polar opposite of the M1 Macs' locked down "appliance" feel. I'm enjoying the progress being made with OpenBSD and Asahi Linux on the M1 platform, but the hardware itself remains impossible to upgrade or repair for mere mortals. The Framework is the pinnacle of truly owning your laptop while not sacrificing speed and a crowd pleasing design.

Yeah it's hard to beat just running linux in a VM on a Mac, especially with Mac's new hardware. Framework's modularity is probably the most compelling alternate value proposition, though.

I wondered. It looked very Windowsy, and I'd guessed the Linux support was non-existent. Sounds like I'm going to stay away then.

Does straight chrome have similar battery performance?

On System76...

Pop OS on a Dell XPS is giving me good battery life. If you already have your machine and files are backed up, worth a shot.

Don't most laptops with type-c power inputs support charging through any of them? My Asus does.

Have a look at thinkpads. I used x280 and x1 over the past 5 years with more than a week’s worth in folded lid sleep state.

I didn't have the same experience with pop on a newer XPS. I wasn't able to get more than 4 hours on a full charge.

I still haven't been able to get suspend to work on my high-spec last-gen Framework, despite following all the troubleshooting and disjointed recommendations in the forum because the company won't just publish fixes for common problems directly.

Suspend will sap 30% of my energy by morning, even in "deep" sleep, and the computer won't wake properly. The trackpad will work intermittently or really fast after sleeping.

I have to turn the thing all the way off every time I use it. Which, alright, forced asceticism. Maybe a growth opportunity.

It's just frustrating and disappointing to find out so much work has gone into making a new one instead of fixing the pile of garbage I ended up with supporting them with the first version.

Ubuntu 22.04 fixed none of the problems I've had since 21.04. Not a single one is better in any respect.

Even "deep" suspend saps 30%+ of battery overnight. And it won't wake right.

If this is the best testing you've done, people just shouldn't buy this thing.

Suspend hasn't failed me yet but I run suspend+hibernate.

Trackpad seems good to me but my setup is not trackpad heavy. In fact I have a hotkey binding in xmonad that disables the track pad because everything I do is keyboard based including my browser. So I find I rarely need to use the mouse and it just gets in my way.

Battery depends on usage, with nothing (nothing is emacs daemon, wifi on, bluetooth on, xmonad and syncthing running, I don't use a desktop environment) running my battery reports a discharge rate of 5-6W, with normal usage (firefox and chrome open, slack and spotify open) the battery discharge is ~9-10W which is easily 6 hours, of course when I'm compiling GHC with all cores firing away this shoots up to ~30W and battery tanks to 1-2 hours but I can't really blame the machine for that :)

battery life with that laptop was always better on the mac, but I regularly got 4-6 hours on that machine for years, first with Arch linux, and then with NixOS.

Thanks for the heads up - this is exactly the kind of thing I would be annoyed about if I bought it and why I abandoned laptop linux after college.

Maybe one day, but unlikely soon as apple just accelerates their lead.

I’m happy others are buying it though and funding them - I hope they get there.

The article says:

    We continue to focus on solid Linux support, and we’re happy to share that 
    Fedora 36 works fantastically well out of the box, with full hardware
    functionality including WiFi and fingerprint reader support. Ubuntu 22.04
    also works great after applying a couple of workarounds, and we’re working
    to eliminate that need. We also studied and carefully optimized the standby
    power draw of the system in Linux. You can check compatibility with popular
    distros as we continue to test on our Linux page 322 or in the Framework 
    Community 39. [0], [1]

There's semi-official Linux support it sounds like!

[0] https://frame.work/linux [1] https://community.frame.work/

Yea and the best part was that installing NixOS was dead easy. I followed Graham Christensen's instructions[1] and had nix create a personalized image with the latest linux kernel and some other stuff. Then I just flashed and booted from that image after partitioning. Honestly it was dead simple and its so hard to go back to the ad-hoc system config style a la Arch linux and other distros.

I'm probably a lost cause now because I think I'm going to convert my entire raspberry pi cluster to NixOS from ubuntu.

[1]: https://grahamc.com/blog/nixos-on-framework

"Good battery life" is not my measure of good power management. I can leave my windows laptop sitting out, it will sensibly turn off the screen and eventually hibernate, I don't need to worry about it. A Linux laptop will need babying when it's not plugged in.

Just tried on my Framework with Ubuntu 22.04:

$ sudo powertop --auto-tune modprobe cpufreq_stats failedCannot load from file /var/cache/powertop/saved_results.powertop Cannot load from file /var/cache/powertop/saved_parameters.powertop File will be loaded after taking minimum number of measurement(s) with battery only RAPL device for cpu 0 RAPL Using PowerCap Sysfs : Domain Mask d RAPL device for cpu 0 RAPL Using PowerCap Sysfs : Domain Mask d Devfreq not enabled glob returned GLOB_ABORTED Cannot load from file /var/cache/powertop/saved_parameters.powertop File will be loaded after taking minimum number of measurement(s) with battery only Leaving PowerTOP

> seems even harder now with M1 performance

If it helps with the decision at all, certain 12th gen Intel mobile chips are competitive with the M1 in terms of performance. They do use more power to achieve that though if I remember correctly, but it's not an order of magnitude difference.

I'm stoked that mobile chips are getting as powerful as they are, even though I'm very much an Apple user. Higher perf low wattage parts are good for everyone, and competition will keep Apple moving forward which is good for me!

Not necessarily

"semi-official" is pretty far away from full support.

But just as far away from no official support, which is where we stand with most hardware that I'm interested in.

I’m on a 2020 XPS17. At the time I was having a hell of a time and it took almost a year for everything to be supported out of the box.

Yes it’s horrible when I’m not plugged in and you have to shutdown before closing the lid for transportation.

But if you want off windows and aren’t willing to go Mac, you take what you can get.

Why do people keep doing this to themselves?! I really don't get it. Just buy a laptop from a vendor that actually supports linux, like System76.

> Yes it’s horrible when I’m not plugged in and you have to shutdown before closing the lid for transportation.

Why? Does it not hibernate?

> Suspend will sap 30% of my energy by morning, even in "deep" sleep, and the computer won't wake properly

That's just unacceptable: without wake timers (so outside "connected standby"), S0ix on a Intel 11th or 12th gen should use at most 0.7% of the battery per hour, so 7% over 10h (assuming you like long nights!). A well configured system should aim for about half as much, so between 3 and 4% over 10h.

You are getting about 5x worse power consumption during sleep than a normal modern system, and 10x worse than a well configured system.

One day? I have heard the same thing for almost 20 years.

Framework boards has its own compilation of battery tweaks for linux, though I'd also recommend the Arch wiki another user posted in this thread.

https://community.frame.work/t/linux-battery-life-tuning/666...

I don't get why you're not interested in hardware that fully supports Linux, and which comes with great support, but you do you I guess.

Are you running a Linux distro built for ARM in a VM on Mac?

The consolidated steps in our setup guides on Ubuntu 22.04 and Fedora 36 should result in good standby behavior on 11th Gen Intel: https://guides.frame.work/c/Framework_Laptop#Section_How-to

Digging into the community forum should only be needed if you are using a different distro or if you want to micro-optimize beyond what is in the guides.

Following our setup guides for Ubuntu 22.04 and Fedora 36 (https://guides.frame.work/c/Framework_Laptop#Section_How-to) we see around 0.8%/hour on 11th Gen and around 0.4%/hour on 12th Gen Framework Laptops in s0ix.

I replied to one of your other comments, but you should follow the latest version of the Ubuntu 22.04 guide, setting nvme.noacpi=1, with which we see around 0.8%/hour in s0ix: https://guides.frame.work/c/Framework_Laptop#Section_How-to

I own/have owned multiple Thinkpads, a couple of which run Linux. The power management on Linux is bad.

because this hardware is uniquely repairable and upgradable and it has better linux support than most of the industry. Unless you just want another rebranded clevo laptop this is very good.

I did say most.

Next time I buy a laptop, it will be System76 or Framework, depending on which offering I like better at the time.

No, some laptops with type-C inputs on both sides only support charging on one side (typically marked with a power icon), because they don't want to route power input to both sides of the laptop. It adds a bit of cost and complexity.

Higher-end laptops either support it on all ports, or just put ports on one side of the laptop.

Framework is not that different from System76 afaict. Except Framework has no CoreBoot and no Linux support.

I just played through Mass Effect 2 & 3 on mine (Intel i5) with no problems, using Wine. When I do upgrade my main board, I may get the i7 for better graphics performance.

Another huge + is setting battery charge limit with a console command (1). When I’m connected to power at home, I run `ectool fwchargelimit 60` to keep the battery at 60%. If I’m going out, I set it to 100% in the morning and let it charge.

1: https://community.frame.work/t/exploring-the-embedded-contro...

This is why most people just buy a MacBook: it should not be necessary for the user to read, do, or configure _anything_ to make suspend mode work properly and not drain 30% of your battery overnight.

First, "no linux support" is disingenuous. Second, with a Framework you can replace a USB-c port with a 1TB expansion card, or with an Ethernet port, or whatever is in stock. Those who bought the first model can now upgrade to a next-gen processor and/or reinforced lid, without throwing the whole laptop away. While System76 has surprisingly lower prices than I expected, it does not appear to have similar features--you still have to replace the entire system whenever your Pangolin becomes obsolete in 3 years. Framework was always more about sustainability. They didn't anticipate the demand for Linux/FOSS stuff, but they're adjusting for that. Hopefully some future motherboard will have Coreboot, and I can buy that motherboard and pop it in my laptop.

My MacBook hasn't been suspending itself properly for ages. Love it when my bluetooth headset decides to connect to my MacBook that's been closed and unplugged for 3 hours.

Not that Windows is any better.

I understand the sentiment, and for users who don’t want to do any configuration, we do have systems preloaded with Windows 11 that work out of the box with everything you’d expect a laptop to do. WSL has even gotten good enough to be a reasonable substitute for many people. For folks who do want Linux, in practice we have not seen following the steps in the setup guides be a constraint for usability.

Yeah, honestly when folks roll over to Nix, it's just not a walled garden anymore and there are too many deviations for a support team, it really needs community/forums where people talk to you in a way that teaches as you go.

MS and OSX are locked down enough that you need to be fairly clever to begin with just to get off the beaten path.

I think community is always the way to go when heading down the Nix road, you all are doing an incredible job with it!

powertop --auto-tune is kind of annoying to use, it usually winds up tuning something that shouldn't be and there's no convenient way to filter what it does, and then suddenly your mouse stops being responsive if you leave it alone for more than 2 seconds.

Also on a laptop you might have stuff being plugged and unplugged all the time. Tbh it's kind of surprising systemd hasn't grown a "powertop that remembers things" arm.

I've set aside this afternoon to update my macbook because it refused to do the 12.4 update by itself. Then it refused when I asked it to restart manually. Then it looked like it worked and was restarting but actually it just kernel panicked or something I'm not sure. Then it wouldn't acknowledge an update existed. Then it wouldn't check for an update.

So now, I'm watching it download and prepare an update in real time in safe mode, while doing absolutely nothing else, because apparently a light breeze will knock this update process over. Preparing the update has so far taken 30 minutes. No doubt installation will take another 30 mins to an hour.

"Just buy a macbook" doesn't work anymore.

Chrome was worse compared to MS's Edge, but Chrome based Edge seems worse than previous Edge. My testing isn't as exhaustive on the new Edge.

No it does not. If you’re not careful you’ll open your laptop bag to a hot and barely touchable laptop.

Because there are countries out side of America. You may have heard of them.

I still am unable to get resume from deep sleep to be less than 12-15 seconds. I dug the forums, contacted support, did all the things, but nothing works. If I go to s2idle it is instant, but that takes way too much battery.

Even with deep sleep the battery life feels very short. I haven't done formal tests, but I also have a macbook for work, and the difference is quite noticeable. I very often come to open the framework after a few hours of sleep and it just ran itself out of battery. This never happens with the macbook.

Don't get me wrong, I love the framework, and I love that it's "open", and fixable - so I'm willing to live with that. But just comparing it to another laptop, I'm not sure I'd give it 10 out of 10.

(I run archlinux on framework w/ 11th gen i7)

I don't get why the Apple wins? You'd have plenty of issues on a MacBook running an unsupported OS.

My work-issued X1 Carbon with Windows 10 came with busted sleep out of the box. So yes, Windows is no better.

Will you guys ever produce a "wide screen" version of your laptop? If so, you have another customer.

This doesn't seem useful based on what I know about LiIon batteries: they don't benefit from partial charges, since their capacity loss comes from discharge behaviour.

Suspend works flawlessly on my Librem 15 for many years. Every new hardware needs some time to get a proper support with Linux.

LiIon batteries apparently benefit a lot from not never being at 100% and 0%.

I think there is a reason why car manufacturers over-provision (i.e. the better designed electric vehicles never charge to real 100 %)

>Even the discrete-ish Iris Xe graphics are surprisingly fast. So cool that we'll actually be able to update the innards in a few years as necessary to keep it feeling fresh.

Isn't Intel graphics always been the best bet for Linux due to their excellent driver support? I'm excited for their discrete GPUs just for the sake of proper Linux support.

I have an 15W haswell machine in the corner decoding & encoding multiple HD camera feeds from motion on integrated GPU using intel_vaapi while the CPU is free for postgres, redis and a qemu VM - 24*7.

Yep. Plan to run Fedora 36

Thank you!!!

Obviously manufacturers haven't been eradicating useful screen ratios for no reason, I've just never seen anyone publicly admit to being the cause. Would you also like to take the blame for glossy screens, chicklet keyboards, and non-replaceable batteries?

Gnome has power management features like that, didn't even enable them. It's the most installed DE I think, so your characterization of Linux is pretty off.

I like Gnome and its newest incarnation Gnome 40, but at least on Nixos it has some issues so I often rebuild to an i3-based environment instead.

Its a shame they don't have the option of AMD processors, the rdna2 igpu's included in the new ones would be more than sufficient for me, whereas my understanding is that the intel igpu's leave a lot to be desired.

As game dev is one of the main things I do with a personal PC, sadly this means Im somewhat tied down to having a decent gpu. RDNA2 would be perfect for me, powerful enough to dev on and weak enough to test on (so I dont need a seperate low-spec machine for testing low-end performance).

To be fair, do macbooks and frameworks really share a target market? Apple defines itself by "do it the Apple way and everything just works." Framework is all about "customize it your way and it works." The Venn diagram in my head doesn't have a lot of overlap.

If you want the Mac experience on a Linux device, perhaps you'd be happier with an ubuntu preinstalled Dell or Thinkpad. If you do things the ubuntu way, I'd say the Apple "just works" guarantee applies.

Fucking "connected standby" is the worst thing to happen to ACPI since ACPI. In every OS it's a battery draining backpack heater that provides features nobody wants. In every OS you'd better hope the firmware still supports hybrid suspend or suspend-to-hibernate.

Intel GPUs have been the best bet for Linux laptops for a long time (over 10 years), but for the last two or three, AMD has been just as good. Just avoid dual GPU laptops ("Optimus" or whatever), it's very problematic on Linux and somewhat problematic even on Windows.

What counts as sensible for you?

Experience differs depending on hardware. My Dell XPS 13 got 7hrs out of the box on Manjaro, which I tweaked to get to 8.5-9. On ubuntu I didn't have to bother with the tweaks. That's comparable to Windows on this device...

I do have a laptop with one of those early intel/AMD 6000 series dual GPU laptops, I remember setting up GPU drivers for it (AMD GPU) used to be troublesome but nowadays even Ubuntu sets it up by default and the devices could be switched with just DRI_PRIME.

But of course the performance is awful and intel GPU is better for most tasks; Newer AMD GPU and open-source drivers are likely much better as you say.

> Obviously manufacturers haven't been eradicating useful screen ratios for no reason

For me 16:9/10 is way more "useful" than 3:2/4:3 ever was (had that for ages, wouldn't go back). I love being able to have two different things side-by-side, e.g. an editor and a terminal, on a 13" screen, at a font size I can still read well. I definitely wouldn't buy a square-ish laptop screen.

> Even the discrete-ish Iris Xe graphics are surprisingly fast

Anyone have any idea how well this stacks up against RDNA2? I'd love it to be close enough to not have to worry much about, but from what I hear AMD have it significantly better

On my thinkpad, I've found it most useful to additionally set a start charge threshold much lower than the charge limit. My use case only sees a handful of minutes without charger per day. With charging starting at 40% and ending at 80%, the battery gets charged sometimes as seldom as once per week.

Source: https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-...

Exposing the battery to high temperature and dwelling in a full state-of-charge for an extended time can be more stressful than cycling.

Most Li-ions charge to 4.20V/cell, and every reduction in peak charge voltage of 0.10V/cell is said to double the cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically delivers 300–500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 600–1,000 cycles; 4.0V/cell should deliver 1,200–2,000 and 3.90V/cell should provide 2,400–4,000 cycles.

On the negative side, a lower peak charge voltage reduces the capacity the battery stores. As a simple guideline, every 70mV reduction in charge voltage lowers the overall capacity by 10 percent. Applying the peak charge voltage on a subsequent charge will restore the full capacity.

And I'll take anything that's more square than 16:9 personally.

16:9 is great if I wanna watch movies all day, unfortunately for the apparently unaware laptop industry, I need to also work a little bit sometimes.

Thankfully Apple never jumped on the stupid 16:9 bandwagon with their laptops. Now if only some monitor manufacturer would wake up and start making 27"+, 16:10, 4K+ monitors with 120hz+ refresh rate then I'll literally instantly buy 5.

They also can get these devices. You may have heard that.

Huh. Wonder what the secret sauce is that apparently they can't release upstream. Open source FTW?

> First, "no linux support" is disingenuous

Nope. If I can't file a ticket or call and get an issue fixed, that's not support.

> with a Framework you can replace a USB-c port with a 1TB expansion card, or with an Ethernet port, or whatever is in stock. Those who bought the first model can now upgrade to a next-gen processor and/or reinforced lid, without throwing the whole laptop away.

Ah, that _is_ a great difference then.

Hopefully they get their Linux act together.

Ouch.

The Airs with usb-c always only had them on one side, didn't they? So did the low-end (two port) 13" MBPs; I have a 2016 Intel one with the same issue.

I’m curious: why do you set the max battery percentage?

> One of the things that didn't occur to me before I bought it was that _because_ of the modular design I can switch the side the power port is on.

I'm not really sold on the integrated dongle design of the framework. Doesn't this argument speak more to the design of USB-C than it does to the integrated dongles?

I'm daily driving NixOS both at home and work, but to be honest I don't really use the Nix features all that much, I just have a system that's predictable.

Every now and then I spin up an OS container w/ Ubuntu or the likes, forward X if I'm doing something that isn't supported in NixOS yet.

Of course, depends highly on the value of "they". Because the "you may have heard..." pattern is worse than useless, here's actual info to compare and decide whether either of these may work for you:

https://knowledgebase.frame.work/de/in-welche-lander-und-reg...

https://system76.com/shipping

Sadly, protectionism is a thing. Launching in new countries is hard and expensive. Perhaps there's a company in country that would do it better than some giant international megacorp.

The other way to look at it with regards to the framework is to just not worry about it. Replacing the battery is trivial and only $60 https://frame.work/products/battery

Once the ecosystem picks up speed and there are multiple vendors, perhaps the price or even capacity will improve. Although this may be possible with the thinkpad as well.

Are you running Ubuntu, Fedora, Windows or something else?

If what you're seeing is happening on one of those three that's bad, if it's happening on Arch or something - that's not really on them imo.

A question I should have asked before, but just assumed.

They usually suspend when the lid is closed by default rather than hibernating.

A poor cope for being forced to use a media consumption format. In order to make full use of the ratio ill-suited to productive work, you are compelled to adopt a specific workflow involving two windows being open at all times. Great, that stackoverflow search page can stay open. Do yourself a favor: pivot one of your cursed resolution monitors and open a source file on it in full screen. That is how many text rows you lost in the war on general purpose computing.

> Apple never jumped on the stupid 16:9 bandwagon with their laptops

This is not entirely true :) The MacBook Air 11" was 16:9.

Sucks that you had this issue, but the 12.4 update went smoothly for me (unattended) on both an Intel MBP and an M1 Mac Studio. I’ve never experienced an update issue on the Mac (Windows is an entirely different story).

Windows XP, my laptop hibernated when lid was closed, very simple, very reliable.

Things have just gotten worse since then. :(

Widescreen laptops were a phase, but they're rapidly falling out of fashion.

Being able to see more text (webpages, news articles), and longer lists (email inbox, code) is more important to more people than having a laptop that can watch movies. Split-screening on a laptop is rough no matter the dimensions. In the best case scenario you have a wide laptop and you see two panes, but a miniscule amount of rows on each pane.

Squarish laptops have been a breath of fresh air for me.

Framework does not ship internationally yet. System 76 does.

But if I’m buying a laptop for work why would I get a laptop from a manufacturer that has no presence in my country? What am I going to do when things go wrong? Unfortunately, it may be better to take a punt on a manufacturer with global presence.

Then you get what you choose.

It's really a deal breaker for me if they do not Start Offering Ryzen options for the Mainboard Module as Intel's Integrated graphics is currently lacking compared to AMD's Ryzen 6000 series Mobile APUs with RDNA2 Graphics(680M).

But I want Linux and the Blender 3.2 version released and all that ROCm/HIP support shipping with the Linux Distro/Kernel so I can Have Cycles-X GPU accelerated rendering for Ray Tracing/Rendering as Eevee lacks Ray Tracing currently.

It's just too bad the Intel and AMD have gone with some non standard GPU compute APIs instead of supporting Vulkan Compute. Intel's got its OneAPI while AMD's gotten its ROCm/HIP for GPU Compute API support as the Blender Foundation's no longer supporting OpenCL there for Blender 3.0/later editions.

AMD's Ryzen 6000 series APUs with RDNA2 integrated graphics are just great there for rendering capabilities but it's strange the laptops that ship with the Integrated 680M Graphics are mostly only available on laptops that also Include Discrete Mobile GPUs, as if the OEMs are force up-selling Ryzen 6000 based laptops that come with discrete mobile GPUs only, even if one can get buy with the Integrated 680M graphics alone.

But ETA Prime's YouTube channel has already Reviewed an Unnamed Mini Desktop PC Unit that sporting a Ryzen 6000HX series APU and that 680M integrated graphics but that product is not scheduled for release just yet. There is also a just released Minisfourm Ryzen 5000 series Mobile APU based Mini PC that's still Vega Integrated Graphics but that Mini PC also has a Radeon 6660M discrete Mobile GPU.

I actually hate that I don’t have many options for glossy screens for the desktop, who can I blame for that?

I'd expect every new laptop to have at least one Usb-c on both sides by now.

It'd be great if they could make an extension with more than one port on it, they're wide enough for more.

I couldn't get Wifi working reliably when trying to use my Framework on Linux, even trying multiple distros, it would just disappear and not come back. Eventually I gave up and switched to Windows which has worked perfectly.

My main complaint are that the built in speakers are not good, they just simply cannot get loud enough. I'm also a little annoyed that I bought mine and a month and a half later the 12th gen version comes out. I would have happily waited for it.

Thank you for doing this! I've been following different posts on NixOS and how different folks have managed to get things working on NixOS.

Apologies, I am new to HN, could you please share a write-up of your experience and process in case you haven't already? I'm moving from an MacBook Pro to a Framework and before the MBP, I used Slackware as my daily driver. Would appreciate any tips on using NixOS as a daily driver.

Fair enough, and that may not be the only machine for all I know, but what I meant was that in general Apple tends to go for 16:10 which I love.

I tested this yesterday.

After being off for 24 hours, it dropped from 100% to 47%.

That's more than 2% per hour, and still unacceptable for a device that's supposed to be sleeping.

It doesn't work.

I have 3 other machines running the same version of Ubuntu. Not one of them would have lost more than 7% in the same amount of time.

This is because the people who want a Unix-like operating system that doesn't require manual following of guides after purchase to get basic features working all self-select out of your user pool and go buy a MacBook.