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The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

(community.frame.work)
1680 points etbusch | 12 comments | 19 May 22 12:19 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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doyougnu ◴[19 May 22 17:07 UTC] No.31437263[source]▶
I recently bought a framework laptop for a daily driver when I'm not on my desktop. For context I was running NixOS on an old 2014 macbook air, and I work on the glasgow haskell compiler in my day job so I do a lot of CPU heavy tasks.

I've got to say, as long as these things are being produced I'll never go back. They are just too good and I cannot recommend them highly enough. One of the things that didn't occur to me before I bought it was that _because_ of the modular design I can switch the side the power port is on. That may not seem like much but it was a revelation the first time I sat on the couch and thought "huh I really wish this was over on that side....wait a minute!".

I've also had absolutely no problems with NixOS on my machine, even my apple earbuds easily connect via bluetooth, something that I never quite got working on my macbook.

10/10 This is damn close to my dream laptop and I'm excited a new version is on the way.

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fiddlerwoaroof ◴[19 May 22 19:36 UTC] No.31439099[source]▶
This is interesting: over the last several months, a friend has been running NixOS on a Framework and has been told by Framework employees that they can’t help him with Linux kernel issues because he’s using an unsupported OS and he’s also had lots of complaints about battery life and power management.

I love the idea of the Framework, but it seems to suffer from all the issues that made me switch to MacBooks in the first place.

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nrp ◴[19 May 22 21:02 UTC] No.31440130[source]▶
We would love to be able to provide more personalized service for different Linux distros, but we unfortunately just don't have the necessary expertise to be able to do that well.

For Linux-related service requests, we first ask that folks try an Ubuntu 22.04 or Fedora 36 Live USB (the distros we have done the most internal testing with and created setup guides for) to be able to determine whether there could be a hardware issue. Once we have verified there isn't a hardware issue, we ask that folks post in the community thread for their distro for help: https://community.frame.work/c/framework-laptop/linux/91

In practice, this works well because we have an extremely helpful and engaged community (including in many cases maintainers for that distro). Additionally, because that debugging happens in the open, any answers from it are publicly visible for future users to see.

All of that said, we'd love to find better ways to provide deeper support ourselves and are open to input. A more official path would likely still start with the most popular distros.

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smeej ◴[20 May 22 00:10 UTC] No.31441853[source]▶
Ubuntu 22.04 fixed none of the problems I've had since 21.04. Not a single one is better in any respect.

Even "deep" suspend saps 30%+ of battery overnight. And it won't wake right.

If this is the best testing you've done, people just shouldn't buy this thing.

replies(1): >>31442503 #
1. nrp ◴[20 May 22 01:59 UTC] No.31442503[source]▶
I replied to one of your other comments, but you should follow the latest version of the Ubuntu 22.04 guide, setting nvme.noacpi=1, with which we see around 0.8%/hour in s0ix: https://guides.frame.work/c/Framework_Laptop#Section_How-to
replies(2): >>31443040 #>>31471564 #
2. pjlegato ◴[20 May 22 03:31 UTC] No.31443040[source]▶
This is why most people just buy a MacBook: it should not be necessary for the user to read, do, or configure _anything_ to make suspend mode work properly and not drain 30% of your battery overnight.
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3. com2kid ◴[20 May 22 03:46 UTC] No.31443130[source]▶
My MacBook hasn't been suspending itself properly for ages. Love it when my bluetooth headset decides to connect to my MacBook that's been closed and unplugged for 3 hours.

Not that Windows is any better.

replies(1): >>31443990 #
4. nrp ◴[20 May 22 03:54 UTC] No.31443171[source]▶
I understand the sentiment, and for users who don’t want to do any configuration, we do have systems preloaded with Windows 11 that work out of the box with everything you’d expect a laptop to do. WSL has even gotten good enough to be a reasonable substitute for many people. For folks who do want Linux, in practice we have not seen following the steps in the setup guides be a constraint for usability.
replies(1): >>31500345 #
5. fphhotchips ◴[20 May 22 04:22 UTC] No.31443330[source]▶
I've set aside this afternoon to update my macbook because it refused to do the 12.4 update by itself. Then it refused when I asked it to restart manually. Then it looked like it worked and was restarting but actually it just kernel panicked or something I'm not sure. Then it wouldn't acknowledge an update existed. Then it wouldn't check for an update.

So now, I'm watching it download and prepare an update in real time in safe mode, while doing absolutely nothing else, because apparently a light breeze will knock this update process over. Preparing the update has so far taken 30 minutes. No doubt installation will take another 30 mins to an hour.

"Just buy a macbook" doesn't work anymore.

replies(1): >>31450805 #
6. grumpyprole ◴[20 May 22 06:24 UTC] No.31443990{3}[source]▶
My work-issued X1 Carbon with Windows 10 came with busted sleep out of the box. So yes, Windows is no better.
replies(1): >>31445327 #
7. ohthehugemanate ◴[20 May 22 09:57 UTC] No.31445306[source]▶
To be fair, do macbooks and frameworks really share a target market? Apple defines itself by "do it the Apple way and everything just works." Framework is all about "customize it your way and it works." The Venn diagram in my head doesn't have a lot of overlap.

If you want the Mac experience on a Linux device, perhaps you'd be happier with an ubuntu preinstalled Dell or Thinkpad. If you do things the ubuntu way, I'd say the Apple "just works" guarantee applies.

8. ohthehugemanate ◴[20 May 22 09:59 UTC] No.31445327{4}[source]▶
Fucking "connected standby" is the worst thing to happen to ACPI since ACPI. In every OS it's a battery draining backpack heater that provides features nobody wants. In every OS you'd better hope the firmware still supports hybrid suspend or suspend-to-hibernate.
replies(1): >>31450839 #
9. ChristianGeek ◴[20 May 22 18:17 UTC] No.31450805{3}[source]▶
Sucks that you had this issue, but the 12.4 update went smoothly for me (unattended) on both an Intel MBP and an M1 Mac Studio. I’ve never experienced an update issue on the Mac (Windows is an entirely different story).
10. com2kid ◴[20 May 22 18:21 UTC] No.31450839{5}[source]▶
Windows XP, my laptop hibernated when lid was closed, very simple, very reliable.

Things have just gotten worse since then. :(

11. smeej ◴[22 May 22 19:02 UTC] No.31471564[source]▶
I tested this yesterday.

After being off for 24 hours, it dropped from 100% to 47%.

That's more than 2% per hour, and still unacceptable for a device that's supposed to be sleeping.

It doesn't work.

I have 3 other machines running the same version of Ubuntu. Not one of them would have lost more than 7% in the same amount of time.

12. pjlegato ◴[25 May 22 03:38 UTC] No.31500345{3}[source]▶
This is because the people who want a Unix-like operating system that doesn't require manual following of guides after purchase to get basic features working all self-select out of your user pool and go buy a MacBook.