Most active commenters
  • trelane(10)
  • 2muchcoffeeman(7)
  • lukeschlather(3)

←back to thread

The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

(community.frame.work)
1680 points etbusch | 34 comments | 19 May 22 12:19 UTC | HN request time: 1.669s | source | bottom
Show context
doyougnu ◴[19 May 22 17:07 UTC] No.31437263[source]▶
I recently bought a framework laptop for a daily driver when I'm not on my desktop. For context I was running NixOS on an old 2014 macbook air, and I work on the glasgow haskell compiler in my day job so I do a lot of CPU heavy tasks.

I've got to say, as long as these things are being produced I'll never go back. They are just too good and I cannot recommend them highly enough. One of the things that didn't occur to me before I bought it was that _because_ of the modular design I can switch the side the power port is on. That may not seem like much but it was a revelation the first time I sat on the couch and thought "huh I really wish this was over on that side....wait a minute!".

I've also had absolutely no problems with NixOS on my machine, even my apple earbuds easily connect via bluetooth, something that I never quite got working on my macbook.

10/10 This is damn close to my dream laptop and I'm excited a new version is on the way.

replies(16): >>31437287 #>>31437337 #>>31437716 #>>31437892 #>>31438110 #>>31438737 #>>31439099 #>>31439412 #>>31440128 #>>31440447 #>>31440557 #>>31441497 #>>31445239 #>>31447230 #>>31458294 #>>31465000 #
fiddlerwoaroof ◴[19 May 22 19:36 UTC] No.31439099[source]▶
This is interesting: over the last several months, a friend has been running NixOS on a Framework and has been told by Framework employees that they can’t help him with Linux kernel issues because he’s using an unsupported OS and he’s also had lots of complaints about battery life and power management.

I love the idea of the Framework, but it seems to suffer from all the issues that made me switch to MacBooks in the first place.

replies(4): >>31439419 #>>31440130 #>>31441178 #>>31443963 #
1. lukeschlather ◴[19 May 22 20:00 UTC] No.31439419[source]▶
doyougnu was previously running NixOS on a Macbook so their bar for "working" is probably much lower than a normal person's.

I'm on Windows, but if a Linux could give me reliable power management I would switch in a heartbeat. I don't know what it would take to have sensible power management on Linux without major issues.

replies(7): >>31439552 #>>31439600 #>>31439685 #>>31441547 #>>31441902 #>>31442362 #>>31445346 #
2. echion ◴[19 May 22 20:10 UTC] No.31439552[source]▶
> if a Linux could give me reliable power management I would switch in a heartbeat

More than `powertop --auto-tune`?

replies(2): >>31441957 #>>31443233 #
3. loudmax ◴[19 May 22 20:14 UTC] No.31439600[source]▶
I get six to eight hours on my Thinkpad, running Arch Linux.

This did not happen out of the box. I think I got like two hours of battery life before I began tuning parameters. As usual, the Arch wiki is an excellent resource even if you're running a different distro: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Power_management

replies(1): >>31439882 #
4. 2muchcoffeeman ◴[19 May 22 20:22 UTC] No.31439685[source]▶
Try Pop OS.
replies(2): >>31441210 #>>31447434 #
5. R0b0t1 ◴[19 May 22 20:39 UTC] No.31439882[source]▶
That's impressive. I've done the equivalent of tuning everything and still wound up with battery lifetime half of what it should be on Windows.

There's also specific programs that are really bad. Edge used to add 2-4 hours extra battery life when using my Surface to read PDFs. If I used Firefox, it was shorter by a very noticeable amount.

replies(1): >>31441205 #
6. trelane ◴[19 May 22 22:53 UTC] No.31441205{3}[source]▶
Does straight chrome have similar battery performance?
replies(1): >>31443364 #
7. trelane ◴[19 May 22 22:54 UTC] No.31441210[source]▶
On System76...
replies(1): >>31441350 #
8. 2muchcoffeeman ◴[19 May 22 23:07 UTC] No.31441350{3}[source]▶
Pop OS on a Dell XPS is giving me good battery life. If you already have your machine and files are backed up, worth a shot.
replies(2): >>31441551 #>>31441939 #
9. ay ◴[19 May 22 23:29 UTC] No.31441547[source]▶
Have a look at thinkpads. I used x280 and x1 over the past 5 years with more than a week’s worth in folded lid sleep state.
replies(1): >>31442610 #
10. 420official ◴[19 May 22 23:29 UTC] No.31441551{4}[source]▶
I didn't have the same experience with pop on a newer XPS. I wasn't able to get more than 4 hours on a full charge.
replies(1): >>31442027 #
11. doyougnu ◴[20 May 22 00:18 UTC] No.31441902[source]▶
battery life with that laptop was always better on the mac, but I regularly got 4-6 hours on that machine for years, first with Arch linux, and then with NixOS.
12. lukeschlather ◴[20 May 22 00:22 UTC] No.31441939{4}[source]▶
"Good battery life" is not my measure of good power management. I can leave my windows laptop sitting out, it will sensibly turn off the screen and eventually hibernate, I don't need to worry about it. A Linux laptop will need babying when it's not plugged in.
replies(3): >>31441980 #>>31442039 #>>31445033 #
13. 1over137 ◴[20 May 22 00:25 UTC] No.31441957[source]▶
Just tried on my Framework with Ubuntu 22.04:

$ sudo powertop --auto-tune modprobe cpufreq_stats failedCannot load from file /var/cache/powertop/saved_results.powertop Cannot load from file /var/cache/powertop/saved_parameters.powertop File will be loaded after taking minimum number of measurement(s) with battery only RAPL device for cpu 0 RAPL Using PowerCap Sysfs : Domain Mask d RAPL device for cpu 0 RAPL Using PowerCap Sysfs : Domain Mask d Devfreq not enabled glob returned GLOB_ABORTED Cannot load from file /var/cache/powertop/saved_parameters.powertop File will be loaded after taking minimum number of measurement(s) with battery only Leaving PowerTOP

14. trelane ◴[20 May 22 00:29 UTC] No.31441980{5}[source]▶
Not necessarily
15. 2muchcoffeeman ◴[20 May 22 00:37 UTC] No.31442027{5}[source]▶
I’m on a 2020 XPS17. At the time I was having a hell of a time and it took almost a year for everything to be supported out of the box.
replies(1): >>31442187 #
16. 2muchcoffeeman ◴[20 May 22 00:39 UTC] No.31442039{5}[source]▶
Yes it’s horrible when I’m not plugged in and you have to shutdown before closing the lid for transportation.

But if you want off windows and aren’t willing to go Mac, you take what you can get.

replies(1): >>31442203 #
17. trelane ◴[20 May 22 01:03 UTC] No.31442187{6}[source]▶
Why do people keep doing this to themselves?! I really don't get it. Just buy a laptop from a vendor that actually supports linux, like System76.
replies(1): >>31443461 #
18. trelane ◴[20 May 22 01:06 UTC] No.31442203{6}[source]▶
> Yes it’s horrible when I’m not plugged in and you have to shutdown before closing the lid for transportation.

Why? Does it not hibernate?

replies(2): >>31443405 #>>31449356 #
19. prophesi ◴[20 May 22 01:32 UTC] No.31442362[source]▶
Framework boards has its own compilation of battery tweaks for linux, though I'd also recommend the Arch wiki another user posted in this thread.

https://community.frame.work/t/linux-battery-life-tuning/666...

20. lukeschlather ◴[20 May 22 02:16 UTC] No.31442610[source]▶
I own/have owned multiple Thinkpads, a couple of which run Linux. The power management on Linux is bad.
21. stormbrew ◴[20 May 22 04:05 UTC] No.31443233[source]▶
powertop --auto-tune is kind of annoying to use, it usually winds up tuning something that shouldn't be and there's no convenient way to filter what it does, and then suddenly your mouse stops being responsive if you leave it alone for more than 2 seconds.

Also on a laptop you might have stuff being plugged and unplugged all the time. Tbh it's kind of surprising systemd hasn't grown a "powertop that remembers things" arm.

22. R0b0t1 ◴[20 May 22 04:31 UTC] No.31443364{4}[source]▶
Chrome was worse compared to MS's Edge, but Chrome based Edge seems worse than previous Edge. My testing isn't as exhaustive on the new Edge.
replies(1): >>31446429 #
23. 2muchcoffeeman ◴[20 May 22 04:38 UTC] No.31443405{7}[source]▶
No it does not. If you’re not careful you’ll open your laptop bag to a hot and barely touchable laptop.
replies(1): >>31446502 #
24. 2muchcoffeeman ◴[20 May 22 04:47 UTC] No.31443461{7}[source]▶
Because there are countries out side of America. You may have heard of them.
replies(1): >>31446415 #
25. str34m ◴[20 May 22 09:16 UTC] No.31445033{5}[source]▶
Gnome has power management features like that, didn't even enable them. It's the most installed DE I think, so your characterization of Linux is pretty off.

I like Gnome and its newest incarnation Gnome 40, but at least on Nixos it has some issues so I often rebuild to an i3-based environment instead.

26. ohthehugemanate ◴[20 May 22 10:01 UTC] No.31445346[source]▶
What counts as sensible for you?

Experience differs depending on hardware. My Dell XPS 13 got 7hrs out of the box on Manjaro, which I tweaked to get to 8.5-9. On ubuntu I didn't have to bother with the tweaks. That's comparable to Windows on this device...

27. trelane ◴[20 May 22 12:27 UTC] No.31446415{8}[source]▶
They also can get these devices. You may have heard that.
replies(2): >>31448364 #>>31452452 #
28. trelane ◴[20 May 22 12:28 UTC] No.31446429{5}[source]▶
Huh. Wonder what the secret sauce is that apparently they can't release upstream. Open source FTW?
29. trelane ◴[20 May 22 12:34 UTC] No.31446502{8}[source]▶
Ouch.
30. ◴[20 May 22 13:56 UTC] No.31447434[source]▶
31. trelane ◴[20 May 22 14:58 UTC] No.31448364{9}[source]▶
Of course, depends highly on the value of "they". Because the "you may have heard..." pattern is worse than useless, here's actual info to compare and decide whether either of these may work for you:

https://knowledgebase.frame.work/de/in-welche-lander-und-reg...

https://system76.com/shipping

Sadly, protectionism is a thing. Launching in new countries is hard and expensive. Perhaps there's a company in country that would do it better than some giant international megacorp.

32. likeclockwork ◴[20 May 22 16:08 UTC] No.31449356{7}[source]▶
They usually suspend when the lid is closed by default rather than hibernating.
33. 2muchcoffeeman ◴[20 May 22 21:01 UTC] No.31452452{9}[source]▶
Framework does not ship internationally yet. System 76 does.

But if I’m buying a laptop for work why would I get a laptop from a manufacturer that has no presence in my country? What am I going to do when things go wrong? Unfortunately, it may be better to take a punt on a manufacturer with global presence.

replies(1): >>31452990 #
34. trelane ◴[20 May 22 21:53 UTC] No.31452990{10}[source]▶
Then you get what you choose.