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650 points clcaev | 34 comments | | HN request time: 1.288s | source | bottom
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voidUpdate ◴[] No.45063021[source]
I'm still convinced that it being called "full self driving" is misleading marketing and really needs to stop, since it isn't according to Tesla
replies(7): >>45063088 #>>45063277 #>>45063334 #>>45063570 #>>45063571 #>>45063584 #>>45066589 #
acdha ◴[] No.45063088[source]
Why do you think Musk put so much money into helping Trump win? Tesla was under multiple investigations for safety and unkept promises, and he knew that he would not have leverage to halt those under a Harris administration.
replies(2): >>45063255 #>>45063332 #
1. myrmidon ◴[] No.45063332[source]
I'm absolutely not a fan of Trump, but this is a highly questionable assumption.

The much more likely hypothesis in my view is that he was helping Trump because of personal conviction (only in small parts motivated by naked self-interest).

You should expect rational billionaires to tend politically right out of pure self-interest and distorted perspective alone; because the universal thing that such parties reliably do when in power is cutting tax burden on the top end.

replies(3): >>45063429 #>>45063451 #>>45066199 #
2. antonvs ◴[] No.45063429[source]
Musk is on record saying to Tucker Carlson that “If [Trump] loses, I’m fucked.”

So this isn't so much of an assumption, as taking him at his word.

replies(2): >>45063530 #>>45064001 #
3. blizdiddy ◴[] No.45063451[source]
That’s insane. Do you remember DOGE or Elon taking his cronies into the same departments investigating him? Do you even remember?
replies(1): >>45063923 #
4. unnamed76ri ◴[] No.45063530[source]
The Left was coming after Musk pretty hard before the election. I don’t know the context of the quote you pulled but it’s not hard to see how if Trump lost, there was going to be consequences for Musk.
replies(1): >>45063613 #
5. Swenrekcah ◴[] No.45063613{3}[source]
He has committed a lot of fraud and was facing consequences for that. That has nothing to do with left or right.
replies(4): >>45063681 #>>45063758 #>>45063864 #>>45064854 #
6. walls ◴[] No.45063681{4}[source]
It does actually, because only one side is interested in finding or fighting fraud.
replies(2): >>45063801 #>>45063897 #
7. unnamed76ri ◴[] No.45063758{4}[source]
Fraud has nothing to do with vandalizing Tesla dealerships last I checked.
replies(2): >>45063821 #>>45064423 #
8. Swenrekcah ◴[] No.45063801{5}[source]
Currently yes, but it is not inherently so. The problem with the US regime is that it is compromised, corrupt and heading towards fascism.

The problem is not that the republican party used to be a conservative right party.

What I’m saying is this is not a sports competition where Musk is automatically an opponent of the Democratic party because he supported Trump. He supported Trump in order to improve his chances with the legal system because he knew Trump would be willing to be so corrupt.

Another world might be imagined in which the Democratic party was taken over in 2016 but that is not the world we live in.

9. Swenrekcah ◴[] No.45063821{5}[source]
You are right it doesn’t. That is (wrongly) done by people who are (rightly) mad at him for making american life harder and global life more dangerous, in a self serving attempt to evade the justice system.
10. terminalshort ◴[] No.45063864{4}[source]
Can you give an example of these many instances of fraud?
replies(2): >>45063932 #>>45064150 #
11. terminalshort ◴[] No.45063897{5}[source]
Both are interested in finding and fighting fraud, but only from the other side. Leticia James charged Trump with a rack of felonies for putting false info on a loan application. The Trump DOJ charged Leticia James for doing exactly the same. Both sides claim the charges against them are politically motivated and the charges against the other side are completely legitimate.
replies(1): >>45064038 #
12. myrmidon ◴[] No.45063923[source]
What would Elon even be in court for? Being a politically incorrect dumbass on ex-twitter is not punishable by law.

Sending a bunch of scriptkiddies around and having them cut government funding and gut agencies is not really how you make evidence "vanish", how would that even work?

And, lastly, jumping in front of an audience at every opportunity and running your mouth is the absolute last thing anyone would ever do if the goal was to avoid prosection. But it is perfectly in line with a person that has a very big ego and wants to achieve political goals.

replies(2): >>45064135 #>>45067990 #
13. scott_w ◴[] No.45063932{5}[source]
We can start from the linked article?
replies(1): >>45063997 #
14. terminalshort ◴[] No.45063997{6}[source]
Yeah, that's where I started, and I would recommend you do the same:

> U.S. District Judge Beth Bloom, who presided over the case, said in an order that she did not find “sufficient evidence” that Tesla’s failure to initially produce the data was intentional.

15. myrmidon ◴[] No.45064001[source]
All the context I have for this is that he was grandstanding in front of a rightwing audience (after Trump was shot at, notably) and playing the "surely I would get unjustly prosecuted for my political incorrectness under the democrats".

What is your actual point? What would he stand in front of a judge for, right now, if Harris had won?

replies(1): >>45064754 #
16. walls ◴[] No.45064038{6}[source]
> Both sides claim the charges against them are politically motivated and the charges against the other side are completely legitimate.

This is how conservatives keep people going 'both sides!' even though they manufacture whatever is required to be that way.

replies(1): >>45064976 #
17. blizdiddy ◴[] No.45064135{3}[source]
Labor violations, taxes, National Highway traffic safety administration investigation Tesla.. are you willfully ignorant or a troll?
replies(1): >>45064450 #
18. Swenrekcah ◴[] No.45064150{5}[source]
For instance he has made fraudulent statements regarding the current and near future capabilities of Tesla in an effort to inflate stock prices numerous times. He was in fact ordered by a judge to stop making such statements but he didn’t obey that.

He used to be quite charismatic, I believed him up until about 2017 or so. Then I figured he was just a bit greedy and maybe money got to his head but still a respectable innovator. However during 2020 or 2021 (I don’t exactly remember) he started to get quite unpleasant and making obviously short-term decisions, such as relying only on cameras for self driving because of chip shortages but dressing it up as an engineering decision.

replies(1): >>45065200 #
19. throwway120385 ◴[] No.45064423{5}[source]
We were talking about Tesla's fraud cases, not some vandalism cases last time I checked.
replies(1): >>45064612 #
20. myrmidon ◴[] No.45064450{4}[source]
I'm not a troll.

I scrutinise beliefs and assumptions even if they are convenient, and you should, too.

I don't believe that Musks main motivation to participate in the 2024 election was to avoid prosecution, because his actions are not really compatible with this, and there is a much more plausible alternative hypothesis that he preferred (possibly no longer) the republican platform for non-prosecution reasons/personal conviction instead, which his actions are very compatible with.

> Labor violations, taxes, National Highway traffic safety administration investigation Tesla

Let me say it like this: Billionaires generally don't have to care about minor infractions like this at all. The whole system is set up to shield them from liability, and wealth is an excellent buffer against effective prosection regardless of who is president. There have been a plethora of infinitely more serious infractions with zero real consequences for the CEOs involved, and this is not because they participated in past presidential election campaigns. See: the VW diesel emission fraud or much worse, leaded gas in the last century (and what associated industry did to keep that going).

replies(3): >>45065296 #>>45065947 #>>45071371 #
21. unnamed76ri ◴[] No.45064612{6}[source]
Actually we were talking about personal consequences to Musk.
22. antonvs ◴[] No.45064754{3}[source]
My actual point is that when someone tells you who they are, you should consider believing them.

You'd have to ask Musk what he feels so guilty about that he had to buy an election.

replies(1): >>45065984 #
23. immibis ◴[] No.45064854{4}[source]
Why do you believe it has nothing to do with left or right?

(Democrats aren't left btw)

24. terminalshort ◴[] No.45064976{7}[source]
Please explain how one person lying on a loan application is manufactured and another person lying on a loan application is a serious felony.
replies(1): >>45070519 #
25. terminalshort ◴[] No.45065200{6}[source]
I just can't take the accusation of lying to increase stock price seriously because Elon has on occasion come right out and said the stock is overvalued https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1256239815256797184

You will basically never hear another CEO of another publicly traded company say this. I just don't believe that the same person who cares so little about his stock price that he sends a tweet like that (and the stock dropped 10% on it) also is making fraudulent statements to inflate the price. A better explanation is that he just says what he thinks without regard for the stock price, which is also something you won't see any other CEO of a publicly traded company do.

26. DonHopkins ◴[] No.45065296{5}[source]
Oh, so you're willfully ignorant.
27. rcpt ◴[] No.45065947{5}[source]
Meetings with Vlad, election interference, a pile of books at the SEC. Even rich people go to jail for these kind of things
replies(1): >>45066474 #
28. rcpt ◴[] No.45065984{4}[source]
Somehow the right has this incredible ability where none of their words matter.

On the left the details of your sentence structure get criticism for weeks from the public and the press (remember "garbage people"?)

29. ikrenji ◴[] No.45066199[source]
the rich already pay next to no tax thanks to loopholes aka living on loans.
30. myrmidon ◴[] No.45066474{6}[source]
Does not pass the smell test, those accusations hardly even qualify as a crime to be honest. If we had a fully democrat-controlled administration at every level (with every judge being a stout democrat), then I would still give you a <5% probability for Musk to end up behind bars for any of those (!!).

There is a pretty recent precendent on the other side of the political spectrum: Hillary Clinton. Republicans went on and on for how she belonged in prison. Anyone with half a brain was able to tell that this was not gonna happen, because there simply was no case. Republicans got basically absolute power since, and --surprise-- Hillary did not go to prison.

What makes you so confident that you are right about Elon, while the people back then were obviously wrong with Hillary (even without hindisght!).

replies(1): >>45068094 #
31. acdha ◴[] No.45067990{3}[source]
> What would Elon even be in court for? Being a politically incorrect dumbass on ex-twitter is not punishable by law.

Look at the things he’s already been in court for: labor and environmental violations, safety problems. A really big one for him is the exposure to suits over his statements as the CEO of a public company: anyone who’s bought TSLA in the the last decade or so could, for example, claim that he was knowingly misleading investors about FSD’s readiness or safety record.

Each of those are areas where he absolutely does not want someone with government investigatory powers talking to his employees, demanding internal documents, etc. and in several of them he could have business activities blocked if, for example, they linked approvals to more comprehensive evidence (imagine if they couldn’t sell FSD for use on public roads until it was safer and had to compensate past buyers).

32. rcpt ◴[] No.45068094{7}[source]
There was no case against Hillary you're correct.

But that doesn't mean that there is no case against Elon. I'm not sure why you would draw an equals between the two. The SEC really does put people in jail, the stuff with Vlad is bordering on treason.

I think you may have forgotten that we actually used to have a government and there was rule of law.

33. walls ◴[] No.45070519{8}[source]
Scale, intent, history... so many things make two crimes that sound the same, not the same.
34. mlsu ◴[] No.45071371{5}[source]
A government that seriously investigated the claims that Tesla has been making and stop them from selling cars with it? Maybe causing their stock price to reflect their status as a mediocre electric car company, causing the entire house of cards to come down?

You can’t seriously think it’s just politics. Elon’s _entire_ fortune is built on these misrepresentations. A competent government that forces them to stop selling self driving, after a series of high profile lawsuits, is something Elon would pay very close attention to, probably even more than the day to day operations of the (mediocre electric car) company that he runs.

Elon is about the stock, the stock price, and the yarn he spins to keep it up. There is nothing else for him.