EverQuest

I absolutely loved EverQuest and it’s still probably holds some of my fondest gaming memories. My favorite feeling about it is that it felt like a real world first, gameplay second. It had a real sense of danger and wonder that I think will be almost impossible to recreate.

Going from Qeynos to Freeport, or crossing the ocean on a boat felt absolutely epic and dangerous. It was wonderful, but not something I would want to play today now that I have real life obligations.

Totally, me and my friend used to share an EQ account in school. His parents paid for it so he got to play during the day, and I would play at night from midnight until 6am, then I'd go to school. It was profoundly unhealthy, which is why that game earned the name "Evercrack".

Last weekend I played a beta game called "Monsters and Memories" that's trying to be an EQ clone, and it's very faithful in that it's carried forward all the terrible parts of EQ.

Just the amount of sitting around waiting that you have to do in EQ that I had forgotten about is incredible. Managing your water and food levels, having to go find your corpse when you die and it taking 5 hours just to get there, pitch black nights so you're forced to walk around with a lantern, camping a spawn with 100 other people trying to get the same items as you to complete the same inane quests, broken quests that you can't even complete to progress the game forward...

And yeah, one weekend was enough. I got real shit to do, I have time for nonsense, but not THAT kind of time.

There's a musician named Richie Truxillo who made so many comedy songs about EQ back in the day, but your comment just reminded me of "Has Anybody Seen My Corpse." I haven't thought about corpse runs and dragging folks' corpses back to them in ages!

Your perception of time is profoundly different when you are a kid with no job.

Painful death makes you try hard to avoid it ensuring real stakes.

It was also at the perfect moment in time where you couldn't just pull up the game's wiki on a second monitor and have fully detailed maps and quest details on hand. You actually had to learn things for yourself by exploration and trial and error. You had to learn things from other people by talking to them in game.

In my mind back then, I was in awe of people that even had the knowledge of how to get across certain zones safely. You know it took effort/skill for them to gain that knowledge. You couldn't just look it up.

I've been thinking how you could possibly replicate a similar thing nowadays, but unless the world constantly randomly changes over time, rendering any created guides/maps/etc moot, I think that window has closed.

I hated EQ for me the reason was it was not UO nor was it even trying to recreate the vibrancy & real world that UO's designers had gone for. *BUT* I also recognized that EQ represented a game that was much more aligned to what a normal gamer would want, one could already see that path being forged in UO as time went on. And then of course WoW came along and perfected the art.

I still lament how UO played out. It quickly became apparent that most players binned into one of two categories, and neither category really fit in with the original UO vision. And of course, one of those two categories drove away the customers in the second category. The rest is history.

ohh if i had a million platinummmm

wow that's a memory i had lost for many years. thanks

The inter-city travel was my favorite part of EverQuest. (The rest of the game, I didn't find too interesting.) The level of challenge was about right: if you looked at maps and planned your route, you could generally get to where you wanted to go, but it was hazardous.

I wonder if there's a game that focuses on that sort of travel experience.

Depending on what you do and how you play, Eve Online has a harrowing navigation system.

You should look at Noita!

It makes it more realistic. At this age, it would mean I just quit the game - like my character died for real!

And part of the joy of Eve Online is that if you want, you can be a reason travel is dangerous.

Streaming also changed the landscape.

The game meta/knowledge spreads through realtime video and incidental entertainment instead of through slow message boards only frequented by power users who would do something as lame as spend time on a 2005 message board.

It's amazing how deeply knowledgable everyone is about every game because of it.

I guess it's not good or bad. It's nice that gaming is mainstream instead of being a stereotypical loser activity it was when I was in high school.

My first memory of EverQuest was leaving the tutorial quest, running along a road at night, and being eaten by a lion.

I had no idea what I was doing but I was hooked on figuring out.

Oh my, that long journey is one of my fondest memories of the game as well. Absolutely terrifying as a low level with barely any information on how to pull it off, having to ask strangers for help. The fear of losing all of your stuff on the way and having to run all the way back. Magical. I was just a humble human paladin on the Mithaniel Marr server.

I agree with everybody else commenting here, it was a truly unique experience that I would love to be able to re-live, but our expectations as players have moved on a long while back, you can no longer capture that magic because it's now all rote and routine. In 1999 it was the first time many of us had ever experienced anything like it, it flooded the senses and it felt like a world full of interesting people and epic adventures. It was the frontier at the time.

> I've been thinking how you could possibly replicate a similar thing nowadays, but unless the world constantly randomly changes over time, rendering any created guides/maps/etc moot, I think that window has closed.

How about a simple NDA to prevent players sharing this kind of info?

I've made an effort in recent years to actively avoid researching wikis and guides on games as I play them. I've come to think that a lot of the joy in gaming is the discovery and unraveling the systems that make the game tick. Finding the optimal ways to level or complete some mission through exploration and experimentation is always so much more fulfilling than finding the first result the comes up in google where the answer is already there for you.

Admittedly, it does take a degree of willpower and sometimes I will still do some online research when a game gets particularly frustrating. The biggest obstacle to my approach of avoiding online information is that some games feel like they're designed with that in mind and don't provide enough information in the games for an isolated player to really figure everything out.

i remember doing the staff of the wheel quest as a newbie level 16 wizard who had barely seen any of the world

i met so many people who helped me get into some really scary places (lguk at 16 is terrifying) as i wondered in all sorts of climates and places, what a fantastic place!

looking back the world felt so different and huge and alive with life

i will never get that experience again

For me, I made a high elf, didn't know page up/page down were needed to control swimming, and died in the water by the bridge leaving Felwithe, I didn't even get beyond the city gate.

I too formed memories by playing EQ in a way that was, in retrospect, dumb, and learning from the experience.

e.g. I created an Erudite wizard (who could not see in the dark) and insisted on leveling up in Toxxulia forest, the default "newbie" zone for Erudites. It was dark there, even during the day, and pitch black at night. I kept my monitor at the calibrated brightness level because I didn't want to "cheat". Monsters of an appropriate level were spread out and often hard to find. A troll NPC roamed the forest and randomly killed players. I spent many hours getting lost (and killed) there before leaving the island, only to discover the comparatively easy newbie zone that stood outside Qeynos, a short, safe, free, ship voyage away.

The game was full of stuff like this. If you wanted to do something, there was usually a very bad way to go about it and other ways that were much better. Finding those gave you a sense of accomplishment that was far sweeter than mere levels.

Modern games tend to be more balanced so you can be assured that, however you're doing something, there probably isn't another way to do it that is vastly easier unless you're doing something really weird. This "wastes" less of your time, but somehow feels less realistic. In real life, different strategies for doing things are seldom equal.

UO had such a huge influence on me. It was amazing.

How would you enforce that?

You have to make the world big and uncharted enough that it can't be picked over quickly. I have some hope that Light No Fire might pull it off.

Probably an uncommon experience, but I felt something similar playing Final Fantasy XV. The semi-realistic scale and emptiness of the world map that people complained about actually contributed to the consistent feeling of being out in the wilderness, stumbling on dungeons and whanot. Most open-world games feel like theme parks, Eos felt like a national park. I'm told RDR2 and Death Stranding carry similar vibes.

I'd like devs to get a bit more bold about real-world scaling environments. Let a long-ass walk between towns be a long-ass walk between towns. And no mini-maps.

100% agreed with games being designed for online aids. Some of the quests in Oldschool Runescape make me wonder if I'd ever have completed them without guides - it's like they're designed to be a challenge for the whole community upon release, rather than for individual players.

The various tank games can’t keep people from violating military secrets laws to post tank diagrams. A game NDA ain’t gonna do shit.

Another aspect that differs from many of today's game is just how long it took to progress. Every upgrade felt earned. Today, rewards are tossed at players.

Interesting that progression was massively eased in later versions.

Noita is the last thing that comment suggests he wants. Most of Noita's content can only be learned by consulting the wiki, which I assume is an intentional legacy of the designers' love of Nethack. And the world is the same every time.

Perhaps death stranding and its sequel might be the closest?

> And the world is the same every time.

The overall layout (e.g. the progression of zones) and some set pieces are fixed, but the details are randomized.

Fun fact: the overall layout is configured by a PNG file, with the color of each pixel controlling which "biome" is used.

Both of these games are still going. Atlantic has a huge player base. It’s not the cutthroat game it once was but it’s still very much exciting. You can still die and all your shit poof. Housing on Atlantic is still in demand and hard to get if that gives an idea how healthy it is.

Eq has of course had some major server merges but your old account will still be on both UO and EQ.

To me UO is a breath of fresh air after 20 years of trash games except for a stand out few. Seeing my old wood elf ranger with swift wind and lupine dagger still glowing was magical. Almost as magical as re-exploring kelethin.

There sure isn't much information on Light No Fire online. Hello Games must be keeping the cards close to the chest with this one.

Hit the nail on the head (note: you can even look at long-running MMOs like WoW or Runescape and compare how they were played in 2004 and how they are played now, to see this in action). The data-mining and hyperoptimisation and looking everything up on the wiki means the _exploration and wonder_ that did make the MMO experience so unique is gone. Even chatting is not done in-game, at the same location in the physical world, but just on a discord chat you alt-tab to...

At this point, even if a good MMO were to come out (incredibly, this has not happened for close on two decades), recreating that experience is entirely on the player. It's on the player to forgo looking things up, or to forgo using external tools to chat, find groups, trade items, calculate strategies, etc. But since players doing that will be at a disadvantage, that is unlikely to happen in an online game...

2007 Quest Cape with no guides is a long-standing childhood dream of mine. One I think I will never complete, but still!

Unfortunately as an early NMS player with hundreds of hours, I have seen nothing that gives me hope that LNF will have the depth that is needed for the world to feel like that. Mile wide, inch deep.

What made EQ an experience was those areas were static and took real skill to uncover how to do things.

It's legitimately insane that perhaps the best MMO, or at least the one which came closer to fulfill the MMO's promise of a shared, persistent, virtual world, was also the first. How come in three decades of technological and creative development did nobody do it better?