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    EverQuest

    (www.filfre.net)
    173 points dmazin | 20 comments | | HN request time: 0.836s | source | bottom
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    mike1o1 ◴[] No.44466395[source]
    I absolutely loved EverQuest and it’s still probably holds some of my fondest gaming memories. My favorite feeling about it is that it felt like a real world first, gameplay second. It had a real sense of danger and wonder that I think will be almost impossible to recreate.

    Going from Qeynos to Freeport, or crossing the ocean on a boat felt absolutely epic and dangerous. It was wonderful, but not something I would want to play today now that I have real life obligations.

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    1. thegrim33 ◴[] No.44467016[source]
    It was also at the perfect moment in time where you couldn't just pull up the game's wiki on a second monitor and have fully detailed maps and quest details on hand. You actually had to learn things for yourself by exploration and trial and error. You had to learn things from other people by talking to them in game.

    In my mind back then, I was in awe of people that even had the knowledge of how to get across certain zones safely. You know it took effort/skill for them to gain that knowledge. You couldn't just look it up.

    I've been thinking how you could possibly replicate a similar thing nowadays, but unless the world constantly randomly changes over time, rendering any created guides/maps/etc moot, I think that window has closed.

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    2. dmbche ◴[] No.44467216[source]
    You should look at Noita!
    replies(1): >>44468934 #
    3. hombre_fatal ◴[] No.44467369[source]
    Streaming also changed the landscape.

    The game meta/knowledge spreads through realtime video and incidental entertainment instead of through slow message boards only frequented by power users who would do something as lame as spend time on a 2005 message board.

    It's amazing how deeply knowledgable everyone is about every game because of it.

    I guess it's not good or bad. It's nice that gaming is mainstream instead of being a stereotypical loser activity it was when I was in high school.

    4. normie3000 ◴[] No.44467520[source]
    > I've been thinking how you could possibly replicate a similar thing nowadays, but unless the world constantly randomly changes over time, rendering any created guides/maps/etc moot, I think that window has closed.

    How about a simple NDA to prevent players sharing this kind of info?

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    5. MBlinow ◴[] No.44467636[source]
    I've made an effort in recent years to actively avoid researching wikis and guides on games as I play them. I've come to think that a lot of the joy in gaming is the discovery and unraveling the systems that make the game tick. Finding the optimal ways to level or complete some mission through exploration and experimentation is always so much more fulfilling than finding the first result the comes up in google where the answer is already there for you.

    Admittedly, it does take a degree of willpower and sometimes I will still do some online research when a game gets particularly frustrating. The biggest obstacle to my approach of avoiding online information is that some games feel like they're designed with that in mind and don't provide enough information in the games for an isolated player to really figure everything out.

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    6. ◴[] No.44467749[source]
    7. beloch ◴[] No.44467777[source]
    I too formed memories by playing EQ in a way that was, in retrospect, dumb, and learning from the experience.

    e.g. I created an Erudite wizard (who could not see in the dark) and insisted on leveling up in Toxxulia forest, the default "newbie" zone for Erudites. It was dark there, even during the day, and pitch black at night. I kept my monitor at the calibrated brightness level because I didn't want to "cheat". Monsters of an appropriate level were spread out and often hard to find. A troll NPC roamed the forest and randomly killed players. I spent many hours getting lost (and killed) there before leaving the island, only to discover the comparatively easy newbie zone that stood outside Qeynos, a short, safe, free, ship voyage away.

    The game was full of stuff like this. If you wanted to do something, there was usually a very bad way to go about it and other ways that were much better. Finding those gave you a sense of accomplishment that was far sweeter than mere levels.

    Modern games tend to be more balanced so you can be assured that, however you're doing something, there probably isn't another way to do it that is vastly easier unless you're doing something really weird. This "wastes" less of your time, but somehow feels less realistic. In real life, different strategies for doing things are seldom equal.

    8. hnlmorg ◴[] No.44467886[source]
    How would you enforce that?
    9. h2zizzle ◴[] No.44467943[source]
    You have to make the world big and uncharted enough that it can't be picked over quickly. I have some hope that Light No Fire might pull it off.

    Probably an uncommon experience, but I felt something similar playing Final Fantasy XV. The semi-realistic scale and emptiness of the world map that people complained about actually contributed to the consistent feeling of being out in the wilderness, stumbling on dungeons and whanot. Most open-world games feel like theme parks, Eos felt like a national park. I'm told RDR2 and Death Stranding carry similar vibes.

    I'd like devs to get a bit more bold about real-world scaling environments. Let a long-ass walk between towns be a long-ass walk between towns. And no mini-maps.

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    10. rhines ◴[] No.44468012[source]
    100% agreed with games being designed for online aids. Some of the quests in Oldschool Runescape make me wonder if I'd ever have completed them without guides - it's like they're designed to be a challenge for the whole community upon release, rather than for individual players.
    replies(1): >>44469302 #
    11. bombcar ◴[] No.44468326[source]
    The various tank games can’t keep people from violating military secrets laws to post tank diagrams. A game NDA ain’t gonna do shit.
    12. slashdave ◴[] No.44468849[source]
    Another aspect that differs from many of today's game is just how long it took to progress. Every upgrade felt earned. Today, rewards are tossed at players.

    Interesting that progression was massively eased in later versions.

    13. thaumasiotes ◴[] No.44468934[source]
    Noita is the last thing that comment suggests he wants. Most of Noita's content can only be learned by consulting the wiki, which I assume is an intentional legacy of the designers' love of Nethack. And the world is the same every time.
    replies(2): >>44469260 #>>44469568 #
    14. duskwuff ◴[] No.44469260{3}[source]
    > And the world is the same every time.

    The overall layout (e.g. the progression of zones) and some set pieces are fixed, but the details are randomized.

    Fun fact: the overall layout is configured by a PNG file, with the color of each pixel controlling which "biome" is used.

    15. tacocataco ◴[] No.44469289[source]
    There sure isn't much information on Light No Fire online. Hello Games must be keeping the cards close to the chest with this one.
    16. andrepd ◴[] No.44469297[source]
    Hit the nail on the head (note: you can even look at long-running MMOs like WoW or Runescape and compare how they were played in 2004 and how they are played now, to see this in action). The data-mining and hyperoptimisation and looking everything up on the wiki means the _exploration and wonder_ that did make the MMO experience so unique is gone. Even chatting is not done in-game, at the same location in the physical world, but just on a discord chat you alt-tab to...

    At this point, even if a good MMO were to come out (incredibly, this has not happened for close on two decades), recreating that experience is entirely on the player. It's on the player to forgo looking things up, or to forgo using external tools to chat, find groups, trade items, calculate strategies, etc. But since players doing that will be at a disadvantage, that is unlikely to happen in an online game...

    17. andrepd ◴[] No.44469302{3}[source]
    2007 Quest Cape with no guides is a long-standing childhood dream of mine. One I think I will never complete, but still!
    18. shostack ◴[] No.44469307[source]
    Unfortunately as an early NMS player with hundreds of hours, I have seen nothing that gives me hope that LNF will have the depth that is needed for the world to feel like that. Mile wide, inch deep.

    What made EQ an experience was those areas were static and took real skill to uncover how to do things.

    19. dmbche ◴[] No.44469568{3}[source]
    I dont know it's the last thing he wants.

    I feel like the same "most" of the content which lives on the wiki is very secondary to the gameloop and that the designers did a wonderful job at not letting the player optimize the fun out of the game.

    The game teaches you nothing and is very cryptic, but the gameloop is simple (go down, don't die). You naturally learn how the sandbox interact (i'm on fire but I have a water flask, water clear up sludge) and the randomized (and shuffle) wands expose you to spell interactions.

    You can easily spend multi hundred hours just learning through the sandbox and trying to break the game.

    The cryptic stuff (34 orbs, impressing the gods, the messages) is also very cool and I think motivating to keep playing with the sandbox even after having "mastered" the mechanics of the game. (As in you never know what you could manage to find if you try to break the game)

    I don't think people play noita with a guide on a second monitor.

    Sorry if poorly worded, tired

    20. dgfitz ◴[] No.44469765[source]
    I will always be in awe of the folks that figured out all of Elden ring without a guide. Some of those quests were just bananas.