I'm the Canadian who was detained by ICE for two weeks

Smart immigrants shouldn't migrate to US anymore, period. Not if you have more than just very short-sighted dollar signs on your eyes. Its just plain out stupid thing to do, to be treated worse than garbage. This is how institutionalized xenophobia looks like.

The fact is, I've read very similar articles about how US treats any non-US citizens a decade or two ago. Nothing changed dramatically, people just bring these up now due to current admin. In US, if you are not a citizen, you are subhuman and treated as such, directly by government. Why the fuck would anybody with any amount of dignity cause it upon themselves willingly?

Europe can offer you tons of opportunities and treat you with dignity. Good quality of life and happiness is much easier to achieve, much less stress, your health and education of your kids will be taken care of. Or Australia. Heck, almost any other free place but current US, and many places experience much more actual personal freedom currently.

We can certainly do more than just boycott some nazi ev cars.

As a Brit: be careful about bigging up how Europe treats immigrants, because the Mediterranean issue has really upped the brutality of immigration enforcement and has resulted in some countries making it illegal to rescue drowning people.

Thanks, the EU is full and has enough immigrants. Why should EU citizens pay outrageous rents, compete against the whole world with their degrees, get lower wages and have prime property bought up by Chinese and Russian oligarchs?

(This does not mean that people should be treated brutally at the border.)

> Smart immigrants shouldn't migrate to US anymore, period. Not if you have more than just very short-sighted dollar signs on your eyes. Its just plain out stupid thing to do, to be treated worse than garbage. This is how institutionalized xenophobia looks like.

No. The US is still the best place in the world for immigrants. There's no other place in the world (barring maybe Canada) where as many people from as many other countries and ethnicities can feel welcome and a part of society. I have several friends who move to European countries (mostly Germany but also the Netherlands) and they never felt like they belonged, while in the US I feel like everyone else. What's going on right now is a temporary shift in this policy, but hopefully the pendulum will swing back.

Guess I'll die, can't find a country that will take me and my partners

> Why the fuck would anybody with any amount of dignity cause it upon themselves willingly?

Presumably because their home country treats them even worse? At least that's the point of the refugee program.

Nonsense.

Saying that as a European who lived in the US for a few years, now residing in Australia.

You're European - you don't understand what it's like as an immigrant from the third world.

> Thanks, the EU is full and has enough immigrants

EU is full of old people and not enough children. The population pyramid looks like a bullet:

https://www.populationpyramid.net/europe/2024/

It's not difficult to see where that leads to, if we stop accepting immigrants.

The charges are that they facilitated trafficking by rescuing people that didn't need rescuing:

https://www.euronews.com/2023/06/30/these-people-face-20-yea...

Ironically somewhat corroborated by the photo in the article. What is the solution for Italy and Greece with these massive coast lines and islands? The refugees deliberately lose their passports. If the rescuers dumped them in a random North African country, everything would be fine. But they want to import as many as possible for ideological reasons.

> Presumably because their home country treats them even worse

True or not, the important part of why people emigrate is because they believe it to be better. US has been really good at propaganda for a long time, and many outsiders (used to) believe that the US truly is the land of the free, although all the evidence pointed in the other direction.

I hate this new world and the rise of selfishness.

If the rents go up and a native couple that still remembers the living standards of their parents is forced to raise a family in two rooms, they will not have children. Immigrants used to that situation might.

There are other solutions, e.g. that the wealthy boomers pay with their houses for their retirements or are forced to rent out their huge properties.

The retirement ponzi scheme needs to stop at some point anyway. With automation one might also need fewer workers.

Most importantly, many immigrants receive social security and are not employed.

Which has now become a political programme ("(We won't do what is right, ) we will do what is in our interest").

There are multiple simultaneous problems:

- A political unwillingness to reign in private capital that's exacerbating resident housing shortages / rent increases (read: AirBnb)

- An infrastructure underinvestment in building sufficient new housing (or motivating current housing owners to densify)

- An underappreciation (Germany) that one can't switch energy mix at nation-scale without first building replacement capacity

- (Europe at least has far more child-rearing-friendly policies than the US)

But all of that is a "maintain demographic shape AND ___" problem.

Countries with inverted demographic pyramids go financially south very quickly.

At best, there are some extremely hard compromises to make (higher taxes on a smaller working base, or decreased social/retirement benefits).

At worst, there are no solutions to balancing a budget and things spiral out of control quickly.

It's underappreciated that "young immigrant labor is funding the country".

> What is the solution for Italy and Greece with these massive coast lines and islands?

The solution is to once again enable applying for asylum at the embassies and consulates. Then nobody has to drown.

> If the rescuers dumped them in a random North African country, everything would be fine.

Apart from the many people being killed by random North African country, like what is happening currently with migrants in Libya. That's not fine at all.

> But they want to import as many as possible for ideological reasons.

Humanitarian reasons, not ideological.

Isn't it obvious that this has more to do with oligarchs hoarding wealth than it does with "being full" of immigrants? Immigrants are nowhere near numerous enough to be doing the kind of damage you claim, but the extremely wealthy do have a stranglehold on resources.

People don't want the responsibility of having kids and raising them properly, so they substitute their posterity for foreigners as a bandaid fix. EU is truly a yikes.

The "immigration crisis" is silently saving the retirement programs of EU countries. People are xenophobic to the point of willingly engaging in self sabotaging their countries.

London at this point is mostly immigrants from the third world. Huge swaths of Frankfurt and Paris are the same way.

Sure, if you immigrate to a random town (population = 1500) in the French Alps from Africa, I grant that you'll never fit in. But the same goes if you immigrate to a small Iowa farming town (population = 1500) from Ecquador.

>Europe can offer you tons of opportunities and treat you with dignity. Good quality of life and happiness is much easier to achieve

I was wondering how long it would take for this post to generate comments from the smug "as a European" crowd of people with deluded notions of superiority for the complex European continent.

I detest the screaming orangutan politics of Trump and his hardcore followers but the U.S. as a whole mostly remains a fantastic melting pot destination for immigrants like it's always been. One 4-year presidency (after a largely ineffectual and sometimes laughable previous one) does not have to mold the history or legacy of a country. By that logic, barely a state in Europe would be worth recommending at all given the continent's none too distant history or barbaric mistreatment of immigrants.

Even in modern Europe, no, treatment with dignity is not very guaranteed. The old racism of many European countries is seething just below the surface and if it¿s applied even to other Europeans, you can imagine how it might be felt by immigrants from the many countries that have for decades migrated to the U.S and integrated amazingly well for the most part.

Shitting on the U.S has always been de jure in certain circles, and now more than previously (partly deserved thanks to Trump) but it shouldn't happen at the expense of reality.

> Presumably because their home country treats them even worse? At least that's the point of the refugee program.

I personally know multiple non-US citizens who did their PhD at MIT. Most of them faced the requirement to temporarily move to the US as a major but necessary nuisance. I also know others who explicitly opted to skip their MIT application to enroll instead in an European program, with all the hoop jumping required to apply for visas being a major factor.

This was a decade or so ago. I assure you that right now things are not looking at better.

Also, people like you should really try to touch grass and try to learn how things are back in the real world. For a few decades now the US is far from being the top choice. In fact, the US doesn't even feature in the world's top 20 in quality of life, in spite of everything. What exactly do you think is happening?

People would literally rather die impoverished, uncared for, and with no dignity in a failing system than maybe have a few brown people around who casually speak a different language and yet, by the testimony of everyone I've ever asked work ten times harder than any local for literally anything.

Like, it's not a perfect solution, there are growing pains, but an adult someone else paid to give a high school education is an insanely good resource. The US's entire gimmick and history has been getting millions of poor immigrants with different ideas and a shred of hope and putting them to work building our country.

But nononono we definitely didn't do this bullshit already with chinese, japanese, german, italian, irish, african, jewish, polish, etc etc etc people. Don't you know it's utterly impossible for people from another country to ever get along with locals? They definitely don't consider themselves just "American" after three generations very reliably, no that would be too easy!

God forbid people in ten generations have slightly darker skin I guess.

"One 4-year presidency does not have to mold the history or legacy of a country." What actually happens after 4 years though? Isn't the concern, the supreme court ruling that the president is above the law? So laws like, you can't run for more than 2 terms, you must have a democratic election where everyone gets a vote, basically all laws around elections, no longer need be followed. Or for that matter any other laws. A president could seemingly behave like Hitler and face no justice. Trump won't live forever, but what's to stop him handing over to someone similar? (BTW to your main point, I agree indeed Europe has its major issues too)

> we will do what is in our interest

if that at least was true, but often it is not

That is an extremely simplistic view.

> Its just plain out stupid thing to do, to be treated worse than garbage.

My home country and the EU treat me even worse because of the lack of 200k+ USD jobs for my experience level

Excellent summary of how a us-american think

>I was wondering how long it would take for this post to generate comments from the smug "as a European" crowd of people with deluded notions of superiority for the complex European continent.

Dozen of country are better than US, people point that out, us-american get offended lmao, relax, we didn't even started pointing to oceania and Asian as better alternative than US

> The solution is to once again enable applying for asylum at the embassies and consulates. Then nobody has to drown.

So you think if those countries don't accept everyone that wants to enter then it's ok for people to try to enter illegally? That's not how borders work.

> Apart from the many people being killed by random North African country, like what is happening currently with migrants in Libya. That's not fine at all.

They can go to a neighboring country without being "stranded" at sea where they need "rescuing".

> Humanitarian reasons, not ideological.

Humanitarian reasons do not require you to pick up people near the coast of Africa and and instead of taking them back back to where they came from bring them to ports much further away. That's purely ideological. One could even call it treasonous.

That's a real first world problem. Most of the world, including most people in western countries don't earn that much.

Lack of offspring is a direct result of cultural and financial policies that tell people they shouldn't settle down and prevent them from affording it. You can fix that instead of giving up your country's identity.

> People would literally rather die impoverished, uncared for, and with no dignity in a failing system

False equivalence. You don't have to give up your country to fix it.

> than maybe have a few brown people around who casually speak a different language

The state of most larger european cities is already well beyond that, bringing with it tons of problems.

> "work ten times harder than any local for literally anything"

That's literally saying they help companies regress the standard of living that locals have fought for.

Meanwhile overall these economic migrants are a net negative financial impact overall because most of them do not come to work but to benefit from generous social programs that they have never paid into.

It's both. And immigrants help the wealthy class become even richer by providing cheap labor while everyone makes up the rest in social security payments.

> The solution is to once again enable applying for asylum at the embassies and consulates. Then nobody has to drown. > So you think if those countries don't accept everyone that wants to enter then it's ok for people to try to enter illegally?

Right, so let's unpack this. There is no way to apply for asylum at embassies. It was previously possible, but it's not possible anymore. If you want to apply for asylum, you have to be physically present in the country where you want to apply. Since applying for asylum is legal (it's a guaranteed human right and some countries try to respect at least a subset of human rights, wonder for how long), it is also legal to enter a country for the purpose of applying for asylum, no matter what everyone else says.

> countries don't accept everyone

This is not about accepting anyone. Asylum is a totally different legal concept than migration. Asylum is granted (or not), not accepted. People that are drowning in the Med. sea are applying for asylum, if they survive. For most of them, it will not be granted, but they are exercising their rights. People have a right to apply for asylum, countries have a right to grant or refuse at will.

> They can go to a neighboring country without being "stranded" at sea where they need "rescuing".

Everyone has the right not to be killed. Just a basic respect to other human beings would be welcome at this stage.

> Humanitarian reasons do not require you to pick up people near the coast of Africa...

Yes they do, there are again legal reasons for that. The laws can be changed, but until then it is indeed the only legal thing to do. And also some people don't enjoy seeing other people drowning.

I like that people are starting to realize that their first world countries should not give up their resources and power altruistically

How the plunders are divided domestically is another issue but I’d be damned if my country was altruistic internationally

Are you making the frequently repeated but always false assertion that immigrants don't pay into social security?

You know who's not paying their fair share into social security in any country? It's the rich, yo! It's the rich! By a wide margin!

To be perfectly clear, I don't care one way or the other about more immigration or less immigration.

What I am saying is that compound interest and the ability to purchase assets is going to continue to draw wealth away from everyone except the ultra wealthy, and immigration policy has effectively nothing to do with that.

Calling on everyone to hate each other is going to prevent us from acting together to solve this problem. We could instead work together, unionize, vote for policies and politicians that won't let the ultra wealthy continue to hoard their gold like dragons.

What country are you even talking about? You seem very determined to tell everyone this is the way the world is, but steadfastly fail to show any evidence.