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946 points giuliomagnifico | 297 comments | | HN request time: 1.388s | source | bottom
1. mmaunder ◴[] No.25606123[source]
You’re angry. I’ve felt this in a trademark lawsuit. You think the world should get behind you and change the corrupt system.

My advice is to immediately rebrand as gracefully and effectively as possible and use all that activist energy to effect the transition.

They kind of have a point which doesn’t make them right, but they hold all the cards and you will lose this one and regret the wasted bandwidth.

replies(33): >>25606208 #>>25606212 #>>25606283 #>>25606293 #>>25606297 #>>25606321 #>>25606344 #>>25606360 #>>25606390 #>>25606393 #>>25606407 #>>25606449 #>>25606498 #>>25607021 #>>25607059 #>>25607219 #>>25607787 #>>25607915 #>>25608000 #>>25608011 #>>25608017 #>>25608073 #>>25608099 #>>25608152 #>>25608166 #>>25608206 #>>25608337 #>>25608771 #>>25608889 #>>25614737 #>>25615210 #>>25618043 #>>25620562 #
2. dstick ◴[] No.25606208[source]
Unfortunately I concur, if this is your main thing. If you can outsource it: let the lawyers duke it out. If this feels personal: follow mmaunder’s advice. There are no winners in that scenario so just take back control.
3. valuearb ◴[] No.25606212[source]
I like “Up All Night” as a new name. Icon image could be people partying in their pajamas.

While taking amphetamines.

replies(2): >>25607097 #>>25608055 #
4. sschueller ◴[] No.25606283[source]
No, how will this ever fix a corrupt system if you play by their rules?

This is why it keeps getting worse and worse. People just comply!

replies(3): >>25606502 #>>25606548 #>>25606771 #
5. DoofusOfDeath ◴[] No.25606293[source]
Agreed. I've found that there's a meta-skill in life: accepting that one can't right every injustice, and to not let that fact prevent you from being happy.
replies(2): >>25606838 #>>25607446 #
6. Spivak ◴[] No.25606297[source]
Yeah, I’m sure this rule is applied inconsistently but that doesn’t mean you don’t have to pay your speeding ticket just because everyone speeds.

This app associates itself with the recreational use of amphetamines in much the same vein as candy cigarettes. Is the rule kinda stupid? Yep. Is it ultimately a cultural thing? Yep. But it’s Apple’s sandbox and you’re playing in it.

There’s always going to be issues of where to draw the line. “Columbine. A bulk process killer.” is obviously over it but amphetamines could go either way. Just rebrand to something else and get back to actually making useful stuff.

replies(1): >>25606668 #
7. ffhhj ◴[] No.25606321[source]
But the controversy is giving them media attention.
8. dj_mc_merlin ◴[] No.25606344[source]
That advice is better for the individual, but these constant complaints that reach social platforms do eventually add up and cause change. The author doesn't have as much to lose here as if he were running a business. Choosing to die on this hill is respectable.
9. DubiousPusher ◴[] No.25606360[source]
> They kind of have a point

How is just using the word or a charicature of it encouraging drug use? This puritanism is a mind disease.

replies(4): >>25606392 #>>25606423 #>>25606990 #>>25608170 #
10. Bodell ◴[] No.25606390[source]
Honestly if your name your product stupid things I would think that some of us might be choosing not to download your product as a result. And if a store decides not to sell your product because of this it’s really their prerogative. Saying you violated their terms with impunity for 6 years doesn’t mean they lose the right to correct the mistake.

This name is pretty rings rather badly in my ears, though I’m not offended by such things. I’d feel similarly if they had named it “fuck sleep”. I’m not offended by the word “fuck” but I don’t really want to buy products that are named that. Do apps need energy drink names to be successful? I’ve noticed a trend in talking about men’s balls in ads, manscaping, underwater fart jokes. It’s seems so much like idiocracy more then something offensive.

On the other hand a rose is still a rose. So I agree they should probably just rename it. I doubt there would be any major loss from doing so.

replies(9): >>25606579 #>>25606628 #>>25606797 #>>25606852 #>>25606882 #>>25606920 #>>25606925 #>>25607172 #>>25607194 #
11. burnthrow ◴[] No.25606392[source]
Puritanism? These are Macs, this is a classy place, we take our drugs to the bathroom thank you very much. Amphetamine.app is so gauche!
12. xwalltime ◴[] No.25606393[source]
I disagree. First, I recommend sending this to the following people: - Any congressional representatives that target Apple for antitrust - Facebook's PR team. - Various tech new outlets

If anyone is willing to make a big case out of this then you can use that media attention to grow your application's user base. This has potential for easy free advertisement through media controversy.

After you have gotten enough free advertisement, go forward with this recommendation of changing your branding.

replies(1): >>25607189 #
13. karaterobot ◴[] No.25606407[source]
They don't have a point based on the wording of their own rule, because amphetamines are not a class of controlled substances.

They don't have a point based on basic common sense either, because this application isn't telling people to use amphetamines. It's a metaphor.

replies(3): >>25606556 #>>25606565 #>>25606642 #
14. tgsovlerkhgsel ◴[] No.25606449[source]
> They kind of have a point

They don't (the claim is the app promotes drug use, which it doesn't), and it's quite likely that it's a reviewer mistake that will be overturned once the stink on social media gets big enough to reach the right person.

replies(4): >>25606876 #>>25606935 #>>25608027 #>>25619793 #
15. RedditKon ◴[] No.25606498[source]
Exactly. I use something identical called "caffeine". Just rebrand to Jolt and be done with it.
16. hshshs2 ◴[] No.25606502[source]
They’re a $2 trillion dollar company, unless you have an incredibly strong case (this isn’t one) then you will lose a war of attrition every time... even sometimes if you do have a strong case. Choose your battles wisely, live to fight another day, etc...

Pound for pound you’d likely be better off putting your energy into policy. The scale is still tilted there, but there is some traction behind fairer app marketplaces.

replies(2): >>25606807 #>>25607020 #
17. xiphias2 ◴[] No.25606548[source]
You change it by going for the weakest point in a peaceful way under the radar.

I believe it's Bitcoin, which is a silent, non-violent libertarian protest against the whole central banking system that produces huge powers, but I know that I am in the minority.

replies(3): >>25606633 #>>25607013 #>>25607276 #
18. philwelch ◴[] No.25606556[source]
> amphetamines are not a class of controlled substances

My pharmacist would disagree with that statement.

19. issamehh ◴[] No.25606565[source]
Amphetamine is very much a controlled substance in the US. You can receive it legally with a prescription of course but that does not mean it isn't controlled.

Of course it's just a name. There shouldn't be an argument that it's encouraging use

20. bserge ◴[] No.25606579[source]
[Sorry, I'm a bit hyped up at the moment]

This is all ridiculous and I don't like where we're headed as a society.

replies(8): >>25606613 #>>25606671 #>>25606702 #>>25606719 #>>25606722 #>>25606726 #>>25606749 #>>25606909 #
21. tshaddox ◴[] No.25606613{3}[source]
I don’t buy your claim that there’s a double standard here. “Beer bong” would be another bad name for this app that I wouldn’t blame Apple for restricting. This isn’t about the arguably mixed up public policies that treat certain drugs as more dangerous than other drugs.
22. ◴[] No.25606628[source]
23. eecc ◴[] No.25606633{3}[source]
Well, I can’t help questioning the “non-violent” part: it takes incredible amounts of energy to maintain that is quite literally taken away from other - possibly more helpful at social scale - purposes.
replies(4): >>25606787 #>>25606858 #>>25607137 #>>25608548 #
24. pflats ◴[] No.25606642[source]
To add a little detail to what others said, amphetamine and its salts are explicitly a Schedule II controlled substance in the US.

https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/21cfr/cfr/1308/1308_12.ht...

replies(1): >>25606898 #
25. bserge ◴[] No.25606668[source]
Yeah, the real lesson here is stop giving Apple et al control. You play on their ground, they own you. It's getting really hard to do these days, sadly.

Rename it to "AppToKeepMacAwake" heh

replies(1): >>25606788 #
26. shawnz ◴[] No.25606671{3}[source]
Anything that could have offensive connotations could also be trivialized as "just a [noun]". That doesn't make it any more or less likely to be taken badly by the intended customer base
27. Bodell ◴[] No.25606702{3}[source]
I’m very glad you brought up weed actually. See I have no problem with weed and like to smoke a joint every now and then. However what I don’t want is to have to buy weed called dumb things like “bro down”, “the obliterator”, and “brain destroyer”. I’d much rather you just named something not so click baity.

Sure it’s just a chemical. Everything is just chemicals but I don’t need “meth” for my computer. Same reason our kids don’t need toys advertised as “crack for your baby”.

Agin not offended its just not a good name. Even if let’s say you build an app that’s hooks into some other program and you sell said app for two dollars, you may think it’s hilarious to call it “two dollar hooker”, hell I myself might even chuckle. But only once, then I’ll just get annoyed every time I see “two dollar hooker” in startup, “two dollar hooker has crashed” etc.

I also would not buy your product if it were called alcohol poisoning. I love alcohol. I’m drinking a beer right now (happy New Years everyone). But naming a computer program after it sounds like an odd thing to do. And more to your point would also be a violation of the same rule Apple is using in this case.

replies(3): >>25607075 #>>25607353 #>>25607951 #
28. Kattywumpus ◴[] No.25606719{3}[source]
> For God's sake, is this where we're headed? Just ban anything that sounds offensive?

Headed?

29. wruza ◴[] No.25606722{3}[source]
It doesn’t sound offensive, just stupid and provoking. Along the lines of Condom Antimalware Suit or Holocosta Firewall. Condoms are great for protecting you and holocaust just means “burn all” - had nothing to do with burning people. It only burns network packets, look at the context, it’s fire wall! No need to come the raw prawn here, simply rename it.
30. rualca ◴[] No.25606726{3}[source]
> Amphetamine is a chemical. What is wrong with that?

This disingenuous take on the term does not help your case nor reflects positively on your reputation as a honest person. Amphetamines have a long reputation as recreational and illicit drugs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphetamine

Amphetamines, much like cocaine and heroin, are not a mere chemical, nor do they convey a mental image of chemists doing science in a lab to the public. And please don't try to pass everyone as a bunch of stupid idiots by claiming that an app designed to keep a device awake is named after a mere chemical, with a long track record of being used as an euphoriant, without any popular connotation with drug abuse.

31. asddubs ◴[] No.25606771[source]
you don't fix anything if you don't pick your battles. it has to be worth it, otherwise you will expend all your energy on doomed causes that ultimately don't even matter all that much
32. asddubs ◴[] No.25606787{4}[source]
not to mention the environmental impact
replies(1): >>25607112 #
33. bravoetch ◴[] No.25606788{3}[source]
MacQuake.
34. bambax ◴[] No.25606797[source]
> I’m not offended by the word “fuck” but I don’t really want to buy products that are named that.

Then don't. How is this relevant? They say the app has been downloaded 500,000 times, so many people are fine with the name.

These stories keep coming; they should remind us that nothing is more precious than the open web, and all those stores or walled gardens, their "rules" and vague TOS are the ennemy.

replies(7): >>25606844 #>>25606918 #>>25606977 #>>25607100 #>>25607185 #>>25607701 #>>25609581 #
35. Yetanfou ◴[] No.25606807{3}[source]
You do this by leaving the platform. There are plenty of alternatives for Apple's products so those who get tired of the ever-increasing censorship inside the walled garden are better off outside of its walls. Eventually the Apple world will become something akin to Disneyland, nothing but "wholesome" infotainment without anything that could give offence.
replies(1): >>25607050 #
36. webmobdev ◴[] No.25606838[source]
Sure, but that also doesn't mean you should stop voicing your concerns publicly at injustice. Being angry at some injustice doesn't automatically make you unhappy too, if the anger is used constructively and positively. You can voice your concern and be practical too.

The article is actually quite well written and even highlights, with examples, how Apple applies such naming rules arbitrarily.

I've said this before - all developers who distribute their apps through the macOS / ios app store should feel like a JACKASS for not only giving Apple control over distribution, but also paying them for the same. YOU DEVELOPERS ARE THE ONE WHO CREATE MORE VALUE FOR THESE APPLE PLATFORMS - why in the hell do you think it is some kind of "privilege" to PAY them for it??

With its exclusive app store, Apple acts like a CORRUPT bureaucrat who unnecessarily imposes himself in the middle of you and your clients, demanding a bribe from both to connect you and them. Thus, increasing costs for your clients, and reducing your profits!

Especially on the macOS, which Apple is desperately trying to turn into a closed platform like ios, developers are being incredibly SHORT-SIGHTED by distributing apps on its app store and adding more value to something that will end up hurting them when everyone's choice is ultimately limited to it.

replies(1): >>25606871 #
37. warent ◴[] No.25606844{3}[source]
In my mind maybe this is something like an HOA. Sure, your friends might love your house parties, but your neighbors have to deal with the consequences
replies(3): >>25606907 #>>25607222 #>>25607277 #
38. huffmsa ◴[] No.25606852[source]
What if it was "caffeine"?

A stimulant drug, just happens to be legal.

Or Coca? A plant that release a stimulant when chewed.

Now if the app was called "Sweet Meth", you'd have a better parallel with "fuck sleep", but it's not.

replies(2): >>25607109 #>>25608092 #
39. xiphias2 ◴[] No.25606858{4}[source]
I think we use a different definition of violence.
replies(1): >>25607205 #
40. DoofusOfDeath ◴[] No.25606871{3}[source]
> Being angry at some injustice doesn't automatically make you unhappy too

I guess I was assuming that anger and happiness are somewhat mutually exclusive.

replies(2): >>25607029 #>>25608464 #
41. Angostura ◴[] No.25606876[source]
> the claim is the app promotes drug use, which it doesn't

You don't think it could reinforce the idea that Amphetamines could be a useful tool to preserve wakefulness?

replies(8): >>25607022 #>>25607042 #>>25607074 #>>25607080 #>>25607113 #>>25607145 #>>25607317 #>>25607582 #
42. wincy ◴[] No.25606882[source]
I know a very intelligent software engineer who told me he had never used Exercism (despite him using other similar tools) simply because he’s a practicing Catholic and thought the name to be in poor taste. You definitely alienate people at the fringes by naming things something even slightly risqué.
replies(2): >>25607252 #>>25607678 #
43. ardy42 ◴[] No.25606898{3}[source]
> To add a little detail to what others said, amphetamine and its salts are explicitly a Schedule II controlled substance in the US.

Though, Schedule II means it has accepted medical uses, so it is not illegal. For instance, lots of kids are prescribed amphetamines for ADHD.

The part of the policy that actually references "controlled substances" only forbids apps that facilitate their sale by non-pharmacies.

I think the GGP has a point if you replace "controlled substances" with "illegal drugs." The reviewer obviously seems to think the terms are synonymous (which is false), and banned the app under the clause that forbids "encourag[ing] consumption of ... illegal drugs."

Leaving everything else aside, this reviewer pretty clearly failed to understand and reasonably apply the policy as written. Reference != promotion and "controlled substance" != "illegal drugs" (all illegal drugs are controlled substances, but the reverse is not true).

44. smnrchrds ◴[] No.25606907{4}[source]
Aren't HOAs widely hated?
replies(4): >>25607002 #>>25607098 #>>25607148 #>>25607541 #
45. drivingmenuts ◴[] No.25606909{3}[source]
There are lots of software that I won’t touch simply because if I ever had to explain the name, I would immediately be put on the defensive, regardless of how useful they may be. It’s a conversation that would waste my time.

Similarly, I would avoid naming something potentially weird or offensively for much the same reason, no matter how appropriate or funny it might seem at the time.

While rebranding might be a pain, I suggest just doing it. This not a free speech hill worth dying on, in my opinion.

replies(1): >>25607144 #
46. Bodell ◴[] No.25606918{3}[source]
I agree. Which is why I use a non walled garden operating system. Maybe the same should apply to these complaints. I don’t get mad at wal-mart because of what they choose to stock on the shelf and not stock.
47. hugi ◴[] No.25606920[source]
Americans being American. "We love freedom of speech but fuck you if your product name mentions a chemical compound or a word I or someone else might find offending".
replies(3): >>25607070 #>>25607086 #>>25607399 #
48. throwaway201103 ◴[] No.25606925[source]
> Saying you violated their terms with impunity for 6 years doesn’t mean they lose the right to correct the mistake.

Well it gives you an argument I think. Along the lines of a trademark infringement -- if you have let people use your trademark name for years without protest, that can work against you if you suddenly start demanding that it be enforced.

Not sure it would hold much weight here, since it's a case of Apple deciding what they want to allow in their own store.

49. antiterra ◴[] No.25606935[source]
I think the argument, however tenuous, is that naming a utility after a drug generates a positive association for that drug. It’s not even so much that Apple has to believe this as much as there’s an elevated potential for negative PR. This sort of thing is given even more scrutiny with food items:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine_(drink)

https://m.riverfronttimes.com/foodblog/2010/01/20/the-beerte...

50. teej ◴[] No.25606977{3}[source]
500k may seem like a lot, but it’s not in the context of the Mac App Store. Apple has sold over 100M Macs in the time this app has been around. Also, Apple’s policies are distinctly not driven by “if enough people are fine with it”.

Apple’s policies are bullshit, don’t get me wrong, but let’s not act like download numbers give the developer any leverage.

51. TedDoesntTalk ◴[] No.25606990[source]
Agreed.

Learning not to be offended by things is a skill that is worth learning.

It is also the road the tolerance.

52. incongruity ◴[] No.25607002{5}[source]
As are dentist visits and prostate exams - but even those things ultimately add value. HOA’s arguably do so as well even if they’re often hated.
replies(1): >>25607147 #
53. lukifer ◴[] No.25607013{3}[source]
I'm pro-crypto, but so long as Apple maintains absolute hegemony over their ecosystem (backed in part by an artificial state monopoly on ideas!), even the rosiest scenario for Bitcoin doesn't change the power dynamic. Apple could literally add support for buying apps with BTC tomorrow, yet still disallow sideloading or competing stores, while kicking out apps they don't like on a whim.
54. chrischen ◴[] No.25607020{3}[source]
Not every fight is a 2-trillion dollar fight. If you say decide to commit some fraudulent chargeback against an Apple purchase they are unlikely to pursue it, for example, even though they are a 2-trillion dollar company that could crush you. Spending $5000 of lawyer time to recover $50 may not be worth their time and they know it.
replies(1): >>25607473 #
55. permo-w ◴[] No.25607021[source]
Caffeine would be an easy answer to the rebranding question
replies(4): >>25607111 #>>25607115 #>>25607138 #>>25607184 #
56. nyx_ ◴[] No.25607022{3}[source]
Like the original post says, they are in fact a useful tool to promote wakefulness, and if you have a problem with wakefulness or attentiveness, you can go to a doctor, get diagnosed, and be prescribed with amphetamines perfectly legally if you so wish.
57. TedDoesntTalk ◴[] No.25607029{4}[source]
Learning not to be offended is a great skill to learn.

It applies to both sides here: Apple could continue to choose not to be offended after 6 years. The developer could choose not to be offended at Apple’s decision and rebrand.

Having said that, this is censorship any way you look at it. Whether it’s “valid” censorship depends on your point of view.

58. ◴[] No.25607042{3}[source]
59. Hnrobert42 ◴[] No.25607050{4}[source]
Do you really believe the app developers should close their doors and stop making the app rather than change their name, all as part of an ideological fight? I just want to make sure that is really your good faith argument.
replies(1): >>25607494 #
60. webmobdev ◴[] No.25607059[source]
> My advice is to immediately rebrand as gracefully and effectively as possible and use all that activist energy to effect the transition.

Apple will definitely appreciate it if all of us would just shut up and let them screw us.

While I appreciate your well-meaning advise to the author - pick your battles in life carefully - I'd like to add that using your anger constructively at some injustice is a positive move too. You do have to accept some things in life are beyond your control. But it does not mean you should not be an advocate for necessary change. Speaking up is the beginning. (And in fact, more positive to your well-being). And you can even stop with that. But speak up.

The author has made some good arguments and I urge everyone to read it. Irrespective, of what the author ultimately decides to do, he should be glad for having the courage to speak up. And that many of us appreciate it and support him.

Apple shouldn't forget that while it may have hoodwinked many developers to pay them for the "privilege" of creating and distributing apps on their platform, it is the developers who are the ones adding more VALUE to their platform. And that there's a limit to how much you can abuse and gauge them (one would have that all the law suits on the app store would have made them realised that by now).

replies(3): >>25607433 #>>25607485 #>>25608255 #
61. powersnail ◴[] No.25607070{3}[source]
I don't see how any of these contradict freedom of speech. We are talking about 1) people being offended by a name; 2) a company banning an app on their own app store.

Whether you find the situation distasteful, it has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Neither the offended people nor Apple is infringing on the developer's freedom speech.

62. incongruity ◴[] No.25607074{3}[source]
Well - they do actually do that and under certain circumstances, they are used precisely for that. I find the puritanical mindset a little bit of an overreach here.
63. randallsquared ◴[] No.25607075{4}[source]
The application keeps one's Mac from going to sleep. Its name is basically a direct analogy, and doesn't imply any wrongdoing or illegality, as far as I can see.

> I also would not buy your product if it were called alcohol poisoning. I love alcohol. I’m drinking a beer right now (happy New Years everyone). But naming a computer program after it sounds like an odd thing to do. And more to your point would also be a violation of the same rule Apple is using in this case.

What about an application that assists in force-quitting other programs? One might call that "Scotch", since that's what it does ("It 'scotches' other processes, you see..."), and the application might have a cutesy whiskey glass as its icon. Would that run afoul of your sensibilities?

replies(1): >>25607234 #
64. zamadatix ◴[] No.25607080{3}[source]
You can refrence a truth without promoting it. E.g. Darik's boot and nuke wipes everything but you'd be off your rocker to say it's promoting nuclear war as a result.
65. GCA10 ◴[] No.25607086{3}[source]
Freedom of speech isn't the same as freedom of distribution. There are lots of edgy things that you can say somewhere. You just can't say them everywhere.

We can have lots of lively debate about how to draw the boundaries. But we'll get a lot farther if we can move beyond the two-state absolutism of "allowable everywhere" vs. "outright banned with breath-taking severity."

replies(1): >>25607190 #
66. Hnrobert42 ◴[] No.25607097[source]
I wonder if that phrase is still protected by the USA network, for those of you old enough to remember when regular ol’ cable would show topless women. Now you can’t name an app Amphetamine. It is interesting to watch the pendulum swing.
67. ufmace ◴[] No.25607098{5}[source]
No. Certain internet communities have a culture of dunking on them, but they do not represent any kind of real majority. The housing market continues to show a preference towards communities with HOAs.
replies(3): >>25607263 #>>25607868 #>>25608069 #
68. freehunter ◴[] No.25607100{3}[source]
I download and use the app despite the name. I’m not okay with it, but I need the features it offers and there isn’t a better alternative with a better name. There used to be (called Caffeine) but it disappeared from the store and I’m not sure why.

Just because people use the app doesn’t mean they like the name.

replies(7): >>25607149 #>>25607159 #>>25607282 #>>25607295 #>>25607457 #>>25607574 #>>25607821 #
69. renewiltord ◴[] No.25607109{3}[source]
There's an app called Caffeine that does the same thing. It's what I use.
replies(2): >>25607301 #>>25607585 #
70. canofbars ◴[] No.25607111[source]
I just did a search and found multiple apps with that name already.
71. lukifer ◴[] No.25607112{5}[source]
Yet another reason to implement a Carbon Tax & Dividend [0] ASAP. There's certainly an argument that the intentional waste of Proof of Work is more efficient than the overhead of existing banks; but I suspect the whole crypto world would migrate to Proof of Stake if forced to pay for their externalities. As is it, they simply borrow against the planetary credit card (probably at a rate of ~100x interest), sticking future generations with the bill for their "innovation".

[0] https://clcouncil.org/economists-statement/

replies(1): >>25613306 #
72. dack ◴[] No.25607113{3}[source]
Not op, but no; the app has nothing to do with drugs.

I don't think we as a society should be this sensitive/prone to suggestion. If anything, I believe the censorship promotes the idea that people have no responsibility to make their own choices, and we must build to the lowest common denominator.

Note, I'm not really making a judgement about whether Apple should be allowed to do this - I think that is harder question.

replies(1): >>25607873 #
73. glerk ◴[] No.25607115[source]
There is already an app called "Caffeine" that serves the same purpose.
74. ◴[] No.25607137{4}[source]
75. redwall_hp ◴[] No.25607138[source]
Caffeine was the old application that Amphetamine replaced. It was a long-standing utility that went unmaintained after Apple switched to the retina displays.
replies(1): >>25607229 #
76. jethro_tell ◴[] No.25607144{4}[source]
I'd set up a mastadoon server but I don't want to tell my friends to check out my toots.

Hehe your fucking five, but then it just gets annoying.

replies(1): >>25608066 #
77. dempseye ◴[] No.25607145{3}[source]
They are. Militaries around the world agree. So do doctors who prescribe them for narcolepsy and other disorders. I think it is a good name.

The fact remains that in most places amphetamines are an illegal drug when acquired without a prescription.

I think he should just rebrand. A name change is not a big deal, given the app has low name recognition in the first place. News of the rebrand will be the first Google result for people who are unaware of it.

Apple holds all the cards here. There is little to be gained if he wins, and if he loses he will have to rebrand anyway after much wasted effort.

replies(2): >>25607884 #>>25608438 #
78. smnrchrds ◴[] No.25607147{6}[source]
But do most people consider them as such, i.e. painful but necessary/beneficial? My understanding was that they are widely regarded as parasitic organizations full of busybodies who are there to advance their personal agenda and to feel a sense of power over people at the expense of all the reasonable people who just want to live their lives; they are considered the polar opposite of live and let live.

I personally have never dealt with an HOA, so my understanding of their popularity is shaped solely by what I have read online. I must say your comment is the only one I have ever seen that has put them in a positive light.

replies(3): >>25607358 #>>25607359 #>>25608134 #
79. jkmcf ◴[] No.25607148{5}[source]
The HOA stereotype definitely is, but all HOAs are not the same. My HOA is generally hands off but you do need to ask permission for structural or cosmetic changes -- the neighborhood doesn't want to look like an amusement park. But, no one is going around measuring the height of your grass or other overly strict things I've read about.

However, I did just get a nasty gram to take down my political "Giant Meteor for 2020 - just end it already" yard sign.

replies(1): >>25607319 #
80. webmobdev ◴[] No.25607149{4}[source]
But do you believe Apple should be the ultimate arbitrator of such silly things like the name of an app you create?
replies(2): >>25607418 #>>25608860 #
81. mcpherrinm ◴[] No.25607159{4}[source]
(edited due to inaccuracy)

There is a command line tool called caffeinate that ships with Mac OS. Maybe Apple didn’t like somebody using something so similar their system utility name.

Originally I thought it was the same name, so this seems much less likely now that they're merely similar.

replies(1): >>25607290 #
82. croes ◴[] No.25607172[source]
Amphetamine is a drug to keep one awake. So the name is appropriate.
83. rwc ◴[] No.25607184[source]
Not so easy: https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/24120/caffeine
84. young_unixer ◴[] No.25607185{3}[source]
> These stories keep coming; they should remind us that nothing is more precious than the open web, and all those stores or walled gardens, their "rules" and vague TOS are the ennemy.

Yes. And the solution is:

1. Creating a viable alternative.

2. Promoting it.

Which is the opposite of what TFA is trying to do: They just want Apple to make an exception for them. Not to solve the root problem.

replies(2): >>25607326 #>>25607341 #
85. medium_burrito ◴[] No.25607189[source]
Epic's PR team too.
86. jethro_tell ◴[] No.25607190{4}[source]
This is still not it. He's not facing a government warrent.

Freedom of speech means the government won't/can't prosecute you for what you say. It doesn't have anything to do with how companies or private citizens respond to your words.

You're (usually) legally allowed to say you'll fuck my mom but I don't have to bring you over for family dinner.

One could contend that apple's refusal to host this app on it's store is in itself free speech.

Either way, the government jasent gotten involved so nothing here treads on free speech issues.

replies(2): >>25607681 #>>25620475 #
87. webmobdev ◴[] No.25607194[source]
This just detracts us from the actual discussion - do you think Apple should be the ultimate arbitrator to decide what you name your app?
replies(1): >>25607675 #
88. crusty ◴[] No.25607205{5}[source]
Yeah, you use the one that fits your narrative, and it works wonders until you try to pass it off to people who haven't latched onto that narrative, and then you come to a crossroads, do you summarily discount their perspective and go on your merry way unfazed and unchanged, or do you reconcile this new perspective and potentially confront issues with your narrative.

I don't know you but based on that facile response, I'm guessing you're more down for the former - considering the deleterious externalities of bitcoin mining at scale are pretty well known.

89. A4ET8a8uTh0 ◴[] No.25607219[source]
I hate to agree with you, because I think I know what the 'right' thing is from my perspective. Sometimes to make a change, you have to fight and, likely, lose. You don't always effect change by winning. That said, I am not sure I would be willing to make that kind of decision.. and thankfully that is not my decision to make here.

I too recommend live to run another day approach ( ala Rincewind ).

..then again, this may be the right time to do stand up to Apple. Current upheaval in tech, clear battle lines being drawn over everything from section 230 to app store could stack up things in your favor..

Still, it is only a chance.

replies(1): >>25607322 #
90. drzaiusapelord ◴[] No.25607222{4}[source]
How could this analogy work? There's no consequences to having a app with the word 'fuck' in it. Meanwhile throwing big parties obviously does to neighbors. I don't feel a lot of meatspace analogies work to things that are purely digital and can be filtered or ignored, while a houseparty with 100+ people and its noise and drunk drivers obviously cant be.
replies(1): >>25607311 #
91. dempseye ◴[] No.25607229{3}[source]
Really? I am still using it. It works fine with a Retina display, which is the only Apple display I've ever had.

2014 MBP 15 here.

92. Bodell ◴[] No.25607234{5}[source]
I don't think it implies wrongdoing, just sounds like a silly joke.

Scotch vs scotch whiskey is more of a word play joke as well than a direct analogy. But I see your point and your totally right that one sounds less bad to me. I'm only stating that as a matter of taste I do not like this particular apps name.

And since it's apple's store they have the right to not like it either. I just don't think this is a profound "free speech argument" like some do in these comments.

Personally I think it's really odd that someone would need an app to keep their computer from sleeping. This says far more about macs than the arbitrary naming policy.

replies(1): >>25607645 #
93. webmobdev ◴[] No.25607252{3}[source]
And do you really want Apple to be the arbitrator of such silly things?
replies(1): >>25607618 #
94. smnrchrds ◴[] No.25607263{6}[source]
> The housing market continues to show a preference towards communities with HOAs.

Is it the housing market as homeowners who favours HOAs, or is it the builders who favour them? Are HOAs opted in by homeowners in existing communities because of their benefits, or do builders create them force them upon new communities because it benefits them somehow?

I am asking because while I do not have any knowledge of HOAs, I have been following the saga of rental water heaters/furnaces/ACs in Ontario for a while. Long story short, construction companies sign a long-term contract with an appliance company instead of buying and installing necessary appliances like furnaces for new houses. They get a nice kickback for this. If you want to buy a new house, odds are you will be bound by a long-term contact. If you want to terminate it early, you end up paying 30k for an appliance that is worth 10k new and installed. If you keep your contact, you will pay the same over many years.

It is a deal that is very much to the benefits of the builder and very much against the interest of the homeowners. But they have been exploding in popularity. There are relatively more and more homes with rented water heaters and fewer and fewer homes with owned water heaters every year. It would still be wrong to conclude that "water heater rental is beneficial. See, the market has spoken."

replies(2): >>25607477 #>>25607639 #
95. ineedasername ◴[] No.25607276{3}[source]
This situation would not be solved by a change of payment mechanism, currency choice, monetary policy, or anything like that. It's not what makes Apple a large powerful corporation. The entire world could switch to bitcoin, but if millions of people still buy iPhones, Apple will still have power over what is done on those phones.
96. pixelatedindex ◴[] No.25607277{4}[source]
Except in this case there are no “neighbors” to speak of. Every app is kind of like an island in an archipelago and don’t have a means of communicating to each other.

It’s more like the government of the archipelago decided that they don’t like the name of the island as people interested in such an island are promoting narcotics.

97. frob ◴[] No.25607282{4}[source]
You can still get caffeine directly from the developer's website: https://intelliscapesolutions.com/apps/caffeine
98. htfu ◴[] No.25607290{5}[source]
No, that's called caffeinate.
replies(1): >>25607455 #
99. sillysaurusx ◴[] No.25607295{4}[source]
Why aren’t you okay with Amphetamine?
replies(1): >>25608950 #
100. huffmsa ◴[] No.25607301{4}[source]
Next on the chopping block.
replies(1): >>25607468 #
101. owenmarshall ◴[] No.25607311{5}[source]
> There’s no consequences to having a app with the word ‘fuck’ in it

I suspect that Apple has done studies and has a projected “likely lost sales” figure attributable to having an app store overrun with “mature content” apps.

(Edited: tried to clean up a clunky sentence :))

102. outspeak ◴[] No.25607317{3}[source]
If that was the case, health classes would censor the names of any recreationally-illegal substance. The fact is that Amphetamines are `a useful tool to preserve wakefulness`. Knowing that fact isn't inherently a promotion for the use of them.
103. pixelatedindex ◴[] No.25607319{6}[source]
> the neighborhood doesn't want to look like an amusement park.

I do think this is where a lot of the HOA problems come from - if someone wants to put something up on their front yard or lawn, then neighbors can intervene and say you can’t do that there.

Since you bought the property and it’s yours, why do others get to have a say in it? I know I don’t give two hoots about what the neighbor does to their own home.

replies(3): >>25607436 #>>25609026 #>>25610851 #
104. webmobdev ◴[] No.25607322[source]
Yes, you should accept things over which you have no control, and you should speak up against injustice. Acceptance doesn't have to mean you can't advocate for change.
105. rhizome ◴[] No.25607326{4}[source]
> Which is the opposite of what TFA is trying to do: They just want Apple to make an exception for them. Not to solve the root problem

They name several apps which would seem to violate the same guideline, at worst they're asking for the same exception Apple has already given to others. An argument can be made that they're snitching on the others, but it's also an argument for consistency that one could say is the root problem.

106. ◴[] No.25607341{4}[source]
107. kuroguro ◴[] No.25607353{4}[source]
Alcohol 120% has entered the chat. /s

I can see why Apple chooses the family friendly route and rebranding probably is the best option in this case as fighting it would most likely be futile.

I don't think they went overboard with the name in general tho. It makes sense for the app as much as the other coffee/coca branded ones do.

They explicitly chose "amphetamine" over "meth" which is a medical term and has valid uses.

108. hombre_fatal ◴[] No.25607358{7}[source]
HOA does have what feel like arbitrary busybody restrictions, but they are also the authority that makes people remove the broken washing machine from their front yard and they are the only recourse in my region (when I lived briefly in a suburban house) for someone who refuses to do anything about their dog that barks 24/7 or flings trash into your neighboring yard. HOA fixed it for me on both occasions. The police certainly don’t care.

So people aren’t going to like the HOA. But they also offer essential recourse and order.

109. pixelatedindex ◴[] No.25607359{7}[source]
Most people I know who have been pro-HOA are the ones who have a say in it and are on the board, or have strong opinions on how their neighbors should outfit their own house.

The ones that hates the HOA are the ones that have paid a ton of money (I’m in the Bay Area) and can’t do as they please. Who wants to pay close to a million and have others chime in and start giving you directions on what to do to your own property.

I rent, but the principe of the HOA is a big enough leech in my mind that I’d hold out for a single home, whenever that is (if at all).

110. sbarre ◴[] No.25607418{5}[source]
In their environment that they clearly indicate is their environment from the outset? Yes..

They are not telling the author they can't call his app whatever they want. They are saying they will not sell it in their app store under that name.

And that's the bargain you enter into when you sell in a walled garden ecosystem.

replies(2): >>25608077 #>>25608616 #
111. 0xEFF ◴[] No.25607433[source]
Do you expect to see a box on a shelf of any retail store labeled, “Amphetamine” with a colorful picture of drugs?

It’s entirely reasonable for the retail store to tell the vendor to rename the product or else it will be removed from the shelf.

replies(17): >>25607531 #>>25607630 #>>25607666 #>>25607713 #>>25607969 #>>25608052 #>>25608173 #>>25608176 #>>25608590 #>>25609479 #>>25609486 #>>25609661 #>>25609709 #>>25610235 #>>25611672 #>>25612531 #>>25615946 #
112. sbarre ◴[] No.25607436{7}[source]
Buying the property came with the HOA strings.

If you didn't want those strings, then go buy a property somewhere that doesn't have an HOA.

Same with this case, I sympathize with the author and I personally think this is a stupid thing for Apple to do, but the author (hopefully) understood the bargain they were entering into when they chose to enter the walled garden.

replies(1): >>25608920 #
113. megablast ◴[] No.25607446[source]
A great way to justify not doing anything.
replies(1): >>25607937 #
114. mcpherrinm ◴[] No.25607455{6}[source]
Ooops, edited my original comment. Blame tab completion for never making me type the end of the name! Thanks for the correction.
115. 0xEFF ◴[] No.25607457{4}[source]
The caffeinate command is built into macos.

Edit: This keeps the computer awake until 6 PM each day.

  caffeinate -u -i -s -t $(($(date -j -f "%a %b %d %T %Z %Y" "$(date +"%a %b %d 18:00:00 %Z %Y")" "+%s") - $(date +%s)))
replies(2): >>25608983 #>>25610159 #
116. CydeWeys ◴[] No.25607468{5}[source]
Doubt it, seeing as how caffeine isn't a controlled substance.
117. sbarre ◴[] No.25607477{7}[source]
This feels like a case where the market will dictate what works and what doesn't.

It sounds shitty/shady to you (or at least that's how you're framing it here - apologies if I misunderstood) but if people are still buying those homes, then they must think it's an acceptable contract to enter into.

replies(2): >>25607600 #>>25609771 #
118. panta ◴[] No.25607485[source]
Apple doesn’t give a scheise about developers anymore. IMHO this is going to devalue the platform in the long term, but they seem to think differently.
replies(2): >>25607794 #>>25608287 #
119. Yetanfou ◴[] No.25607494{5}[source]
Yes, I really do believe there is no fighting a $2 billion (and counting) behemoth, other than by shunning it. If enough developers and users - in any order - leave their platform they will reconsider their stance. That is, after all, what it means to have (at least the semblance of) a free market where people make choices based on things like this. The same goes for the other digital empires, whether those be Facebook, Twitter, Google or any of the others. Absent regulation - and is regulation really where we want to go? - I do not see any other way than to "choose with (my) wallet".

This is also why I do not use any of these platforms, instead having spent the time to rig up my own alternatives: Google-free AOSP-derived Android on mobiles and tablets, Linux on laptops and servers, Searx for search, Nextcloud for "cloudy things", NC Talk and Jitsi Meet for videoconferencing, Exim and Dovecot for mail, Peertube for video, Airsonic and MPD for media streaming, etc. I've been doing this since the late 90's of the last century (minus the mobile stuff since that simply did not exist back then...) so I can state with certainty that this is not just hollow rhetoric, it is a viable alternative to submitting to the whims of companies like Apple (et al).

replies(1): >>25612419 #
120. gambiting ◴[] No.25607531{3}[source]
No, because at a retail store the expectation is that if I see a box labeled "amphetamine" it better contain actual amphetamine. Obviously that's not acceptable, so it's not going to happen.

When I buy software, I certainly don't expect to get drugs. When I buy a game called "Surgeon Simulator" I don't expect to receive actual surgeon training any more than I expect to get amphetamine after getting an app called amphetamine.

replies(3): >>25608010 #>>25608320 #>>25611702 #
121. gnopgnip ◴[] No.25607541{5}[source]
The congressional approval rating has been between 10 and 30% for the last 8 years, and over this same time the re-election rates of incumbent congressional reps is 89% or higher. People are largely happy with their own congress members, and vote to reelect them and their own HOA, and they will choose to purchase homes with an HOA, and not disband them.
replies(1): >>25607718 #
122. 67868018 ◴[] No.25607574{4}[source]
Better app that's open source: https://keepingyouawake.app/
replies(1): >>25618101 #
123. eknkc ◴[] No.25607582{3}[source]
That is not an idea though. It is a fact.

Why try to hide a fact?

124. tonyedgecombe ◴[] No.25607585{4}[source]
Apple’s own command line tool which does the same is called caffeinate.
125. smnrchrds ◴[] No.25607600{8}[source]
The fact that people grudgingly sign a contract does not mean all the terms of the contract are fair. People sign away their right to sue or join a class action lawsuit as a prerequisite to buying goods or services from companies all the time, but I still believe it is unfair. People grudgingly sign work contracts with strong non-compete, non-disclosure, and IP assignment clauses, but I think those clauses are unfair.
126. canjobear ◴[] No.25607618{4}[source]
For their own app store, of course.
replies(2): >>25607890 #>>25608124 #
127. pfortuny ◴[] No.25607630{3}[source]
Grand Theft Auto comes to mind...

Plague Inc...

Drink extreme...

Trivia Crack Adventura...

Drug Mafia...

All of those are ios GAMES.

replies(3): >>25607687 #>>25607959 #>>25611751 #
128. owenmarshall ◴[] No.25607639{7}[source]
I’m assuming that the long term contract also carries with it a warranty? So if your furnace fails while in the contract it is repaired/replaced free or at a pro rated price?

If so, I could see people liking it as it serves the same function as an HOA: a hedge against bad things happening.

Water heater died? Plumber comes out, no charge. Neighbor starting a junkyard on his front lawn? HOA sends a letter, no confrontation.

Some people will decline an HOA for the same reasons they decline extended warranties: they’d rather deal with situations themselves, as they arise. Others don’t want to be bothered and let someone else handle it. I think there is space for both.

replies(1): >>25607743 #
129. randallsquared ◴[] No.25607645{6}[source]
Haha. It's just a convenience, not a need. There's nothing stopping you from going to screensaver settings and energy settings, manually setting it to "never", then going back after you've completed the download, screenshare, or whatever, and changing your settings back. Alternatively, you could use Apple's built-in CLI tool, `caffeinate`, as others have mentioned.
130. cmorgan31 ◴[] No.25607666{3}[source]
The best argument against Apple is the inconsistency in application of rules. If what you say is reasonable why would they also promote iOS apps whose explicit purpose is the simulation of cartel wars or marijuana dispensaries? My hot take is one doesn’t make much money for Apple while the others provide a clear incentive to act willfully ignorant given their in app revenue streams.
replies(1): >>25608089 #
131. irateswami ◴[] No.25607675{3}[source]
This whole thing is why I'm so glad someone finally sued Apple over their control of the app store, it's just more fuel for the fire.
132. mbreese ◴[] No.25607678{3}[source]
You could argue that this is also why we now have system services instead of daemons.
replies(3): >>25608063 #>>25608460 #>>25608676 #
133. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.25607681{5}[source]
> Freedom of speech means the government won't/can't prosecute you for what you say

The First Amendment says this. Freedom of speech is “a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or a community to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of retaliation, censorship, or legal sanction” [1]. It is broader than the First Amendment, and gave rise to it, though the First Amendment is its most successful codification in the modern world.

A society that shuns those who say “bad” things, even without state action, may not hold true to the values of freedom of speech.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

replies(1): >>25607911 #
134. yoz-y ◴[] No.25607687{4}[source]
Yes this. The hypocrisy of the gatekeepers is infuriating. Let’s not forget that almost all popular games are mass murder simulators. One of the most popular kids games is a dog fighting game.

Now, I’m not advocating to remove those. I like games, but let’s not pretend that somehow calling an app after a molecule is worse.

replies(3): >>25607702 #>>25608736 #>>25610491 #
135. _jal ◴[] No.25607701{3}[source]
It is less that the rules are vague than that the rules are whatever Apple says they are today, for you.

Apple was promoting Amphetamine not that long ago:

https://apps.apple.com/us/story/id1470456860

replies(2): >>25607818 #>>25607836 #
136. pfortuny ◴[] No.25607702{5}[source]
Can you even call something “Arsenic”?
replies(1): >>25607885 #
137. kortex ◴[] No.25607713{3}[source]
Tell that to Cocaine Energy Drink.

https://www.caffeineinformer.com/cocaine-energy-drink-is-bac...

replies(1): >>25610712 #
138. berryjerry ◴[] No.25607718{6}[source]
No, everyone thinks they could do a better job but no one actually wants those jobs.
139. smnrchrds ◴[] No.25607743{8}[source]
> I’m assuming that the long term contract also carries with it a warranty?

I believe so. But the price is so unreasonably high that you could replace the furnace literally 3 to 5 times and you would still be ahead compared to renting the furnace. How many people would purchase an extended warranty that is priced at multiples of the price of the object they are buying? More than none, but a very small number. New rentals are signed overwhelmingly by builders and not homeowners.

replies(1): >>25607803 #
140. glitchc ◴[] No.25607787[source]
I concur with OP. Rebrand ASAP. Apple is looking for an excuse to shut your app down so that they can replace it with an in-house version. This is on purpose, they want you to feel outraged. If you take the bait and start a legal battle, you’ll play right into their hands. They will drag it out for years or until your money runs out.

Far better to keep the money you have earned, recognizing that even the rebrand won’t save your app in the long run. It’s done.

replies(1): >>25607826 #
141. andai ◴[] No.25607794{3}[source]
Consumers don't give a scheise about developers either.
replies(1): >>25608253 #
142. throwaway201103 ◴[] No.25607803{9}[source]
That's the way warranties work. Warranty providers are not offering them at a loss.

If you buy a home warranty, or an extended warranty for your car, you are (on average) going to be out of pocket more than you would be without it. You are buying it for the peace of mind that comes from not having to deal with an unlikely but major repair expense.

replies(2): >>25607861 #>>25607910 #
143. timsneath ◴[] No.25607818{4}[source]
Yeah. Clearly one team at Apple feels (or felt) that the name was no impediment to them marketing it. Like all corporations, Apple is just a congregation of human beings, rather than a synchronized hive mind. But it's problematic if app authors can't trust in consistency as a result.

FWIW, it's a net downside for me that my professional workstation has an app named "Amphetamine", so I'm quietly in favor of a rename. But it's obviously the author's prerogative to choose its branding, so long as it falls within (consistently) applied policies of those who they rely on to distribute it.

replies(1): >>25608379 #
144. tomasf ◴[] No.25607821{4}[source]
[Caffeine's original developer here]

I removed Caffeine from the App Store when Apple started complaining that a click on a menu bar icon for an app without a dock icon must always show a menu (offering a Quit option). I wanted it to toggle the active state instead and show the menu on right-click/cmd-click.

replies(4): >>25608365 #>>25610107 #>>25610816 #>>25612410 #
145. zackkitzmiller ◴[] No.25607826[source]
Amphetamine is and has always been free.

You can always just disable the screensaver on your Mac if you'd like. Amphetamine really helps when you have MDM installed or something that requires your computer to sleep every so often.

146. Tsiklon ◴[] No.25607836{4}[source]
This, I think is perhaps the biggest item in the developer's favour. That Apple themselves found the name palatable enough to promote the app on the front page of their App Store with the existing name.
147. smnrchrds ◴[] No.25607861{10}[source]
> That's the way warranties work

Not at this price. Usually the warranty is a percentage of the price of the goods. So for example, I expect a $1000 gadget to have extended warranty priced at $100 or so. I have never seen the warranty of a $1000 gadget to be priced at $3000 to $5000 dollars. And that is for stuff that break down more frequently, e.g. phones and laptops and cars. The odds of a furnace breaking down are even lower.

replies(1): >>25608126 #
148. JKCalhoun ◴[] No.25607868{6}[source]
HOA for thee, not for me. That's my take.

If I want to practice drums in my garage the neighbors can go pound sand.

But when a neighbor decides to park their truck in their yard I'm all for HOAs.

replies(1): >>25608272 #
149. Grustaf ◴[] No.25607873{4}[source]
It’s named after a drug that inhibits sleep, and it inhibits sleep. The connection is pretty clear...
replies(1): >>25622244 #
150. danaliv ◴[] No.25607884{4}[source]
I’m told the military has switched to modafinil. No amphetamines anymore.
151. technick ◴[] No.25607885{6}[source]
I'm calling dibs on the dating app named chloroform, chloroform-e, and chloroforme.

Rohypnol is another possible name for a social app or something you use for late night shopping.

152. izacus ◴[] No.25607890{5}[source]
Even when their AppStore is mandaded to all your hardware by DRM with you not having any choice of opting out? You want all your possible business speech, products and content you consume dictated by a corporate decree with no accountability?
153. Grustaf ◴[] No.25607899{4}[source]
Their puritans. Remember when Janet Jackson showed her nipple during superbowl or something? The whole country went bananas.
replies(1): >>25612130 #
154. owenmarshall ◴[] No.25607910{10}[source]
The question is, are people buying these products for that peace of mind, or are they buying it because they are not a savvy consumer?

Or worse, because they are over leveraged and unable to fund a replacement without an installment plan – so they have no better option?

I’m not sure. I can see a consumer protection argument to be made.

155. jethro_tell ◴[] No.25607911{6}[source]
No, you have the right to hold and express any view you want.

You don't get to choose peoples reaction or the way they view you after you say something. That would be infringing on their right to hold or express opinions about your views.

What's complicated about that?

replies(1): >>25608310 #
156. sangnoir ◴[] No.25607915[source]
Ah, I remember this infamous Apple ad:

Here’s to the lazy ones, the mundane, the conformers, the rule-followers, the square pegs in the square holes… the ones who don't see things differently — they’re fond of rules… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, you can also safely ignore them because they dare not change things… they keep the human race stagnant, and while some may see them as the lazy ones, we see order, because the ones who are lazy enough to know that they can't change the world, are the ones who won't try

replies(4): >>25607938 #>>25608407 #>>25621012 #>>25621495 #
157. DoofusOfDeath ◴[] No.25607937{3}[source]
> A great way to justify not doing anything.

People are good at rationalizing. I'm sure my earlier comment, and many others, would be sufficient justification for someone inclined to do nothing.

158. sebmellen ◴[] No.25607938[source]
This is brilliant. I can't wait until we see an actual Apple ad with this script. Maybe 2021 will deliver!
159. AshWolfy ◴[] No.25607951{4}[source]
Amphetamine sounds clinical to me, I used to take prescribed, 24 million people in the US, including me in the past, are prescribed amphetamines.

I generally dont like obnoxious marketing either, but unless it is inappropriate for the setting i dont think it should be banned, and this is far more tame than other apps on the app store

160. warent ◴[] No.25607959{4}[source]
This is really great point I hadn't considered. They're applying their rules selectively and inconsistently.
161. alpaca128 ◴[] No.25607969{3}[source]
You also won't find many products being labeled with things like "magic", except maybe for some of Apple's input devices, and drugs called magic mushrooms.

Censoring language is a bad idea even for the richest corporation, partially because there's practically no way to do it without looking like a hypocrite or also doing massive collateral damage. Like in this case, where Apple argues calling an app "Amphetamine" is bad but calling one "Drug Mafia" or "Drink extreme" is supposedly okay.

162. endgame ◴[] No.25608000[source]
“He who is not angry, whereas he has cause to be, sins. For unreasonable patience is the hotbed of many vices, it fosters negligence, and incites not only the wicked but the good to do wrong.”
163. MauranKilom ◴[] No.25608010{4}[source]
> When I buy a game called "Surgeon Simulator" I don't expect to receive actual surgeon training

Fun fact: There are serious surgery training apps in the app stores. Surgeons, too, like to practice in a simulation rather than on real patients.

replies(2): >>25608343 #>>25611085 #
164. type0 ◴[] No.25608011[source]
> My advice is to immediately rebrand as gracefully and effectively as possible and use all that activist energy to effect the transition.

They should be brave and rebrand it to Soma, nothing flies in the new world of apples and bananas.

165. javajosh ◴[] No.25608017[source]
This is one of those assertions that has the unusual property of being true if you believe it, and false if you don't. Like "I think this bank is going to fail!"

Apple doesn't "hold all the cards" unless we believe it is so. The longer that belief is popular we will lose the option to fight when the stakes get higher.

166. anigbrowl ◴[] No.25608027[source]
They don't (the claim is the app promotes drug use, which it doesn't)

It certainly references it. Definitions are fuzzy, and very much in the eye of the beholder.

167. factorialboy ◴[] No.25608052{3}[source]
It is unreasonable when the store is the only store in town, and the town (Apple ecosystem) ensures monopoly of that single store.
replies(1): >>25608929 #
168. flurdy ◴[] No.25608055[source]
Insomnia might already be another app but seems appropriate name.
169. tsm_sf ◴[] No.25608063{4}[source]
There are a surprising number of Christians in CS, but they're generally of the more contemplative kind. I definitely remember people being uncomfortable with that but big enough to not make much of a fuss about it.

I'm guessing it's been slowly changed by people big enough to realize the name doesn't matter.

170. user-the-name ◴[] No.25608066{5}[source]
To most of the world, that word does not mean farts. That is only the case where you happen to live.

To most people, it refers in this context to the noise an elephant makes.

171. TeMPOraL ◴[] No.25608069{6}[source]
> The housing market continues to show a preference towards communities with HOAs.

I wouldn't read too much from that. The market preferring something doesn't mean most people dealing with it like it, it means that it makes money for the people with most say in the matter.

In this case, I think the sufficient explanation for the phenomenon is that HOAs are good at protecting property values. In my experience, most of the silly / annoying rules can be explained by either protecting property value, or by most people being too busy to attend meetings, allowing a small group of bored people to take control.

replies(1): >>25608415 #
172. factorialboy ◴[] No.25608073[source]
> but they hold all the cards..

It's a free app. There is no business to sustain. The indie dev can walk away, and app can die and Apple users will suffer.

173. webmobdev ◴[] No.25608077{6}[source]
> They are saying they will not sell it in their app store under that name.

But they were indeed selling it under that name for 6 years!

How would you like it if you spend a lot of money to advertise your company or product and create a brand value to it, to one day Apple telling you that they would like you to change the name or they will not distribute it on their store?

Yes, the app store is a closed environment where they can dictate some terms. But don't forget that the developers PAY THEM to use it, and as such their terms cannot trump the consumer laws that exist to protect against such abuse. (By the way, "my shop, my terms" have already faced legal scrutiny some of which were found to be illegal - popular ones include refusing to serve people of colour or gays.)

174. ben0x539 ◴[] No.25608089{4}[source]
I think this is the weakest argument? Selective enforcement of rules is a time-honored tradition and seems to be explicitly reserved as the right of the rules-enforcer everywhere. It might be a good argument in a hypothetical debate about the fairness and compassion displayed by Apple, but I don't think you'd get far with it convincing either Apple itself or even a court if one somehow was interested.
replies(1): >>25608179 #
175. larusso ◴[] No.25608092{3}[source]
Funny you mentioning „caffeine“ [1]as this is also an app for macOS which solves the same purpose as the one posted. But this one is not in the App Store. I just had a look and next to amphetamine we have taurine, theine and caffeinated and a few more that use some form of coffee / a substance that keeps one awake. The „Prevent Sleep“ app is the only one which clearly states what it is for :) [1] https://intelliscapesolutions.com/apps/caffeine
176. filetmignon ◴[] No.25608099[source]
This is absolutely horrid, imagine if Amazon could blacklist certain products they compete with
177. webmobdev ◴[] No.25608124{5}[source]
The app store is a closed environment where they can dictate some terms. But don't forget that the developers PAY THEM to use it, and as such their terms cannot trump the consumer laws that exist to protect against abuse.

(By the way, "my shop, my terms" have already faced legal scrutiny, some of which were found to be illegal - popular judgements include that shops cannot refuse to serve people of colour or gays.)

replies(1): >>25616173 #
178. owenmarshall ◴[] No.25608126{11}[source]
I think the “party line” response to this would be that the warranties you get include preventative maintenance as well, making it a different proposition - you’re not just buying a warranty, but a full service plan after all. But I’ve never been convinced by that argument.

I just went through buying a furnace and had a few prospective installers. The first tried to sell the extended coverage: twice annual “checks and maintenance” and a 30% discount on all parts.

The second said he’d let me source the parts myself if I so desired and if I would be responsible for changing the air filter on schedule and hosing down the outside fan every summer I’d be better off putting the annual fee into a sinking fund. Or, I could pay him $200 a year to hold a hose, money he’d happily take. He got the job. ;-)

179. vel0city ◴[] No.25608134{7}[source]
I grew up in a large neighborhood with an HOA. There were a few times where my family butted heads with the HOA (replacing fences with a non-standard style, a play swing/slide thing being a bit tall) but for the most part the HOA was nice. They managed a park and pool for the neighborhood's exclusive use. They decorated the entrance signs to the neighborhood for the holidays. They put on some holiday events like an easter egg hunt/picnic, a fourth of july bike parade, Christmas light judging/awards. People didn't have tons of clutter in their front yards, the streets weren't super crowded with cars.
180. jchw ◴[] No.25608152[source]
I couldn’t disagree with this mentality more.
181. saagarjha ◴[] No.25608166[source]
No, they should not do this. They have six years of strong brand value, and they have a fairly solid case. And they have the world (well, part of the world at least) watching. Apple can and does change if you have those things, if you do it right. We did it with iSH (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25028252). If anything, this is their best opportunity to effect change, and I would very much hope they take it while they still have it.
182. loceng ◴[] No.25608170[source]
Literalism - if we follow Apple's logic then they're not giving us an apple when buying their products.
183. blackearl ◴[] No.25608173{3}[source]
You've never seen the energy drink shelf? "Cocaine" gained notoriety specifically for this.

Go to any gas station to see similarly edgy boner pills, designer drugs like bath salts, things that are genuinely more dangerous.

The dev makes a good point that there are much more explicit iOS games and it's odd for Apple to single him out.

replies(1): >>25610762 #
184. tengbretson ◴[] No.25608176{3}[source]
My grocery store sells an energy drink called liquid death.
replies(2): >>25608306 #>>25608494 #
185. saagarjha ◴[] No.25608179{5}[source]
It’s a weak argument because Tim Cook has personally testified in from of Congress that the rules are not selectively enforced.
replies(2): >>25608589 #>>25613292 #
186. wayanon ◴[] No.25608206[source]
I agree with this response 100%. Don’t use valuable mental calories on this. Just adapt. Use the saved energy on something more deserving of your time.
187. webmobdev ◴[] No.25608253{4}[source]
It's more due to ignorance though. All other things being equal, many would prefer to buy directly from the creator if they realize that they can save money, and the creator gets more profit. Apple is right now a corrupt middle-man bureaucrat between them, demanding a bribe from both to make a trade, but the consumers just aren't aware of that.
188. danlugo92 ◴[] No.25608255[source]
The first mistake he made was making an app for the apple app store.

We can blame the users all we want but, as devs we also contribute to the problem when we publish (independently of course, not as employees).

replies(1): >>25608341 #
189. smolder ◴[] No.25608272{7}[source]
These are probably just examples but I'm firmly in the no-HOA crowd. If my home owning neighbor with a yard wants to park a truck in their yard I really don't care, and I abhor any organization that punishes someone for that. They could have a perfectly good reason to park it there. I've had former neighbors yell at me for fixing my car in my own driveway which makes no sense whatsoever except perhaps to privileged elitists with no DIY skills.
replies(1): >>25608674 #
190. nerdponx ◴[] No.25608287{3}[source]
Value is relative. I don't see a comparable platform anywhere or coming any time soon.
191. chaboud ◴[] No.25608306{4}[source]
I’m pretty sure that Liquid Death is just water.
replies(1): >>25608987 #
192. strken ◴[] No.25608310{7}[source]
The complicated part is that freedom of speech is both a legal right in the US and an ethical principle globally, and your legal rights are less broad than the ethical principle. Something that is legal can still be in violation of the ethical principle.

You say "[we] don't get to choose [people's reactions]", but this is not at all relevant. We're not asking whether their actions are legal or whether we can legally dictate what they think, we're asking whether they're acting ethically.

193. webmobdev ◴[] No.25608320{4}[source]
Good point. And the App Store is not a retail store - developers PAY THEM to distribute their wares. They are Apple's customers too!
replies(3): >>25608380 #>>25608500 #>>25608723 #
194. webmobdev ◴[] No.25608341{3}[source]
Yes, this is the other crust of the issue that we developers need to understand - We are the ones that ADD VALUE to a platform like ios or macOS or Android. It is incredibly short-sighted to then PAY to develop and distibute apps on it!
195. LeoNatan25 ◴[] No.25608343{5}[source]
The point is that the game should not be removed for violating some silly guideline because its title contains “simulator”.
replies(1): >>25609487 #
196. vestrigi ◴[] No.25608365{5}[source]
Did you just not feel like arguing with the app store review team or was it a clear decision between changing it or leaving the app store? The author of amphetamine told that there was a similar problem but apparently he could settle this.

> Amphetamine updates have been rejected by Apple on numerous occasions. One time, Apple’s App Review Team did not like my “Preview” screen shots. Another time, Apple objected to the default behavior when clicking Amphetamine’s menu bar icon, saying it must open the menu by default and not start a session.

replies(1): >>25610105 #
197. twitch-chat ◴[] No.25608379{5}[source]
How is it a net downside? The entire purpose of the App Store being locked down is that it's reliable. There is no way any HR department will launch an investigation because you downloaded an app called Amphetamine. Worst case scenario they go look it up and realize there's nothing more to the situation.

I'd have to see a documented event of this happening rather than a hypothetical scenario to believe a downside actually exists.

replies(1): >>25609002 #
198. ◴[] No.25608380{5}[source]
199. LeoNatan25 ◴[] No.25608407[source]
The Tim Cook era of Apple. This describes well Apple’s fanboy drones, but also the company engineering, product and design.
200. ufmace ◴[] No.25608415{7}[source]
> In this case, I think the sufficient explanation for the phenomenon is that HOAs are good at protecting property values.

Uh yeah, that's their defined purpose that everybody knows about and agrees upon. I've lived in several properties under HOAs, haven't had any trouble, and don't know anyone personally who's had any trouble either.

IMO, HOA problems are of those things that's extremely rare in practice, but makes for outrage-inducing stories on the internet that get upvoted heavily and widely viewed. Since this is well known and plenty of people will do anything for internet upvotes, I'd bet a significant number of the stories are either made up entirely or are highly exaggerated and misleading.

If HOAs were really that bad, you'd see a market for homes advertising the lack of them. We don't though. The better analogy is internet free speech. In theory, everybody likes free speech. But if you create a new forum specifically for the purpose of not censoring anything, it tends to get filled with the worst assholes of the internet. Similarly, you can guess who'd be itching to move in if you advertised your housing development as not having a HOA.

201. PrefixKitten ◴[] No.25608438{4}[source]
He could literally just call it "benzedrex" instead as that is the name of a nearly identically acting but otc stimulant you can grab off the shelf at any walmart lol...
202. saagarjha ◴[] No.25608460{4}[source]
/Library/LaunchDaemons disagrees ;)
203. webmobdev ◴[] No.25608464{4}[source]
It is indeed tricky with anger as it is easy to be consumed and overwhelmed by it.
204. ◴[] No.25608494{4}[source]
205. supernova87a ◴[] No.25608500{5}[source]
You may not know this, but plenty of physical retail stores charge manufacturers of goods to display their wares / offer shelf space for sale.
replies(1): >>25608908 #
206. ufmace ◴[] No.25608548{4}[source]
Uhhh I'm not particularly a fan of Bitcoin, but implying that this is anything like violence is absurd. I gotta go against the trend of anything you don't like that could conceivably lead to somebody being harmed somehow is the same thing as actual violence.
replies(1): >>25609182 #
207. oauea ◴[] No.25608589{6}[source]
Also known as lying. It is blatantly obvious that Apple selectively enforces their policies. Anyone who has ever published multiple apps on the app store knows this.
replies(1): >>25610021 #
208. AsyncAwait ◴[] No.25608590{3}[source]
Apple themselves have featured this app[1], which feels like they endorsed it before.

1 - https://apps.apple.com/us/story/id1470456860

209. oauea ◴[] No.25608616{6}[source]
They are also doing everything they can to block people from distributing apps outside of their walled garden.

So they are in fact telling the author that he can't call his app whatever he wants. Because if he does, they will do everything they can to prevent anyone else from ever using that app.

replies(2): >>25608977 #>>25608994 #
210. JKCalhoun ◴[] No.25608674{8}[source]
I think I'm with you as well.
211. yongjik ◴[] No.25608676{4}[source]
Twenty-something years ago, I've seen some Christians legit freaking out on Netscape's Book of Mozilla[1] easter egg.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Mozilla

212. throw0101a ◴[] No.25608723{5}[source]
> developers PAY THEM to distribute their wares. They are Apple's customers too!

See stocking fees in physical retail stores:

* https://financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/loblaw-follo...

* https://www.canadiangrocer.com/top-stories/headlines/loblaw-...

replies(1): >>25608901 #
213. oauea ◴[] No.25608771[source]
Your advice pretty much equates to "just bend over and take it", which is a horrible thing to tell people.
214. rleigh ◴[] No.25608860{5}[source]
I'm going to say yes.

This isn't unique to Apple. Debian and other Linux distributions have also had similar discussions when considering the distribution of packages with obscene, morally repugnant or inappropriate names, as well as the package contents themselves.

Whether it's a commercial entity or a volunteer organisation, there are considerations regarding image and reputation. People can and will push the boundaries of what is acceptable, and somewhere you're going to have to draw a line.

replies(1): >>25609009 #
215. m463 ◴[] No.25608889[source]
Maybe you should name it "caffeinate"...

Probably won't sell well in Utah.

The name might also collide with apple's program "caffeinate" too.

216. webmobdev ◴[] No.25608901{6}[source]
I do know about stocking fees and display fees. And also that it is not the norm, even if some would like it to be. (And phyaical retail outlets can justify it to some extent because space is actually limited in many stores and obviously they would prefer to give the most space to products that sells fast and / or are more profitable.)

Apple has no real justification here, especially when it forcefully denies both the creators and the consumers a choice in the matter on many of its platforms.

217. webmobdev ◴[] No.25608908{6}[source]
Yes, but it is not the norm. And physical retail stores can justify it to some extent because storage / display space is actually limited and obviously they would like to give the most space to products that sells fast and / or are more profitable. (This is why FMCG - fast moving consumer goods - are so heavily advertised. Brand awareness helps their sales, and thus shops are more ready to stock it.)

Apple has no real justification here, especially when it forcefully denies both the creators and the consumers a choice in the matter on many of its platforms.

replies(1): >>25610475 #
218. pixelatedindex ◴[] No.25608920{8}[source]
> If you didn't want those strings, then go buy a property somewhere that doesn't have an HOA.

The HOA is becoming more and more like your American ISP. When more and more properties demand an HOA, there’s only so many choices for you.

Though I don’t like the answer of “go do it somewhere else” because the real problem is not analyzed and/or solved, I do agree on the Apple front.

219. badwolf ◴[] No.25608929{4}[source]
You can download Mac apps outside of the Mac App Store.
replies(1): >>25609525 #
220. freehunter ◴[] No.25608950{5}[source]
I use it on my work computer and it's not a word I'm comfortable showing to clients. You never know who may have had (or still does have) an addiction, and I also don't want them seeing it and thinking I have an addiction since that could be bad for business.
replies(2): >>25609159 #>>25609678 #
221. freehunter ◴[] No.25608977{7}[source]
>They are also doing everything they can to block people from distributing apps outside of their walled garden.

People keep saying that but nothing on my Mac has ever stopped me from installing whatever software I want. I wish people would stop repeating this lie.

replies(1): >>25609006 #
222. freehunter ◴[] No.25608983{5}[source]
That command makes me really glad Amphetamine exists.
223. colejohnson66 ◴[] No.25608987{5}[source]
Well, your body needs water to survive, so water could be called an energy drink for when you’re dehydrated /s
replies(1): >>25611739 #
224. drKarl ◴[] No.25608994{7}[source]
They probably want their users to use their proprietary store, but I got a new MacBook Pro for work in September and I installed everything I needed and wanted using Hombrew and brew cask, so I didn't use the Apple Store at all. You can also Download .dmf files and install Apps that way. What is it that you say they do to prevent people installing Apps outside the Apple Store?
replies(1): >>25609030 #
225. colejohnson66 ◴[] No.25609002{6}[source]
Just because your HR would be ok with it doesn’t mean all would be
replies(2): >>25609556 #>>25609731 #
226. oauea ◴[] No.25609006{8}[source]
You already forgot about the Epic games debacle where Apple did exactly that?
replies(1): >>25609417 #
227. webmobdev ◴[] No.25609009{6}[source]
The difference is that Debian or others still give both the users and the developers a CHOICE to distribute / acquire the app through other means. Apple cripples (and even outright denies this) on some of its platforms.
228. colejohnson66 ◴[] No.25609026{7}[source]
> Since you bought the property and it’s yours, why do others get to have a say in it?

Because you signed on a line that said you agree to being governed by the HOA when you bought the house. It’s that simple. The sad reality though is that if you don’t like it, you have to find somewhere else (which doesn’t work well if your whole city is under the HOA)

229. oauea ◴[] No.25609030{8}[source]
Apple requires software to be "notarized" (signed by apple) be able to run on newer Macs. Apple also blocks developers they do not like from notarizing apps. See Apple vs Epic.

You might be able to bypass the notarization requirement as an end-user, if you have enough technical know-how, but good luck explaining that to your customers. Especially when all the dialogs are calling your software malicious, untrustworthy, etc.

replies(1): >>25609481 #
230. sillysaurusx ◴[] No.25609159{6}[source]
That's surprisingly reasonable. Thanks for the thoughtful answer.
231. asddubs ◴[] No.25609182{5}[source]
It's not really that absurd, it's just not the most conventional definition. But I've heard it used that way before, especially in the context of philosophy
replies(1): >>25609409 #
232. ufmace ◴[] No.25609409{6}[source]
It's absurd in the sense that, if you accept that definition, then anything at all - taking any action or even taking no action at all - could be called violent, which makes the word meaningless. It points to an Orwellian level of thought control. If anything at all can be called violent by any level of tortured logic, then it's very good to be the person who decrees what actions will be considered to be violent and what will not.
replies(2): >>25616166 #>>25617622 #
233. freehunter ◴[] No.25609417{9}[source]
I must have forgotten it because I can open the Epic store and play Fortnite on my Mac right now without any warnings. I actually just downloaded the installer right from epicgames.com and it installed just fine. Apple doesn't even try to stop me.

I remember Apple revoking Epic's access to Apple's developer tools because of a disagreement over their developer program TOS, but that only stops Epic from using Apple's tools. It does not prevent me from installing any software.

I have a ton of software on my Mac that's not part of the Apple developer program and the developers have never asked Apple's permission nor given Apple any money for the software and Apple has never once tried to block those developers from creating that software or me from installing and running it.

replies(1): >>25609582 #
234. nelsonenzo ◴[] No.25609479{3}[source]
No, on retail shelves I expect to see an assault rifle with the logo of an enraged militant heading into battle where he will kill other human beings and/or be killed themselves.

Also, all the local stores in my town sell some sort of colorful box with drug capsules depicted on them. Many advertising that they give energy to stay awake.

Or I expect to see booze, depicted as booze, one of the most addictive and destructive drugs on the planet.

Or I expect to see.....any number of things which can be abused when used incorrectly.

No offense, but I think this argument is weak.

235. freehunter ◴[] No.25609481{9}[source]
>Apple requires software to be "notarized"

This is not exactly true and you know it. For example:

>if you have enough technical know-how

You right click the app and then click open.

>Especially when all the dialogs are calling your software malicious, untrustworthy, etc.

Another lie. The dialog says "this is from an unidentified developer" and does not say anything about being malicious or untrustworthy. What is your beef with Apple that you're so willing to say so many outright lies on a forum filled with people who know better and can call you out on it?

Windows does this with UAC. Many Linux distros require executables to be explicitly set with the +x flag. macOS is not unique in this, and like with the other OSes it's a security feature.

Check out the warning and "bypass" for yourself: https://www.macworld.com/article/3140183/how-to-install-an-a...

replies(2): >>25609596 #>>25611760 #
236. michaelmrose ◴[] No.25609486{3}[source]
It's less reasonable when the store is the only one people are legally allowed to buy a product category at.
237. michaelmrose ◴[] No.25609525{5}[source]
You mean after you spend at least $700 on a mac mini. Install developer tools. Learn enough about version control to clone the source and pay $100 annually.

Can we just admit that most people actually can't reasonably be expected to do so?

replies(1): >>25610001 #
238. Brian_K_White ◴[] No.25609556{7}[source]
Just because you imagine it's a problem doesn't mean it is.

Like they said, doc or it didn't happen.

239. CRConrad ◴[] No.25609581{3}[source]
The App Store is already a walled garden, so complaining that it's not the open web is hardly a relevant objection. The maker of “Amphetamine” was gappy enough to get that half-million downloads on the App Store, so now that the other side of the coin rolls around he gets to accept that too.
240. oauea ◴[] No.25609582{10}[source]
Yes, there were lawsuits and the courts forced Apple to stop their ridiculous behavior. That is why you can do this right now. Not because of Apple's goodwill, quite the contrary.
replies(1): >>25610327 #
241. oauea ◴[] No.25609596{10}[source]
https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/notarizing_m...

> Beginning in macOS 10.14.5, software signed with a new Developer ID certificate and all new or updated kernel extensions must be notarized to run. Beginning in macOS 10.15, all software built after June 1, 2019, and distributed with Developer ID must be notarized

replies(1): >>25610036 #
242. neya ◴[] No.25609661{3}[source]
But this isn't a retail store, this is a software store. That's the difference.
243. Brian_K_White ◴[] No.25609678{6}[source]
I prefer to reject the process of turning a technical neutral term into some kind of bad word.

If a thing isn't bad, then it isn't, and if someone is ignorant and makes associations and assumptions that are wrong or unsupported, then I'd rather add my tiny influence against that rather than help it.

Or do you yourself do the same thing to your clients? What features of your clients do you use to prejudge them and make unfounded assumptions about them? Should your clients worry what clothes they wear in case you think it means they are gay, which maybe you associate with having Aids... Personally I woukd think things like that are none of my business but apparently you don't think like that.

Please don't smooth the way for the wrong things. I can't demand, obviously, that's why it's a request with the word please.

It seems to be a small thing but big things are made out of small things, and you and I can only do small things. All we have is the choice of which kinds of small things we do.

244. macjohnmcc ◴[] No.25609709{3}[source]
I knew somebody who got national attention for making an energy drink named Cocaine. It did not last long on the market due to the name.
245. michaelmrose ◴[] No.25609731{7}[source]
Who is dumb enough to think people get drugs by installing an app called Amphetamine, monitors user software installs anally AND also lets users install their own software locally in the first place?

Most corporate PCs are windows. On a fraction of the macs users are allowed to install their own software, on a tiny fraction of those amphetamine is installed, on a tiny fraction of a fraction of those maybe someone exists who has a problem with HR.

I'm not sure the last subset actually exists in the real world nor that we ought to support censorship to help imaginary people deal with imaginary morons.

246. Brian_K_White ◴[] No.25609771{8}[source]
It sounds like exactly the opposite, where the market created or allowed a situation where the majority of people get something they don't want at all.

It's ridiculous to even try to say that a home owner will not weigh 50 different factors, and have to tolerate 10 things they do NOT want because they come packaged with 40 other things they either want or absolutely need.

Why does anyone even try to pretend like they don't recognize this unless they are themselves one of the few people actually benefitting from one of these consumer-hostile deals?

replies(1): >>25613436 #
247. pseudalopex ◴[] No.25610001{6}[source]
That's iOS.
248. alsetmusic ◴[] No.25610021{7}[source]
Those at the top often allow themselves to believe that their company is virtuous by being disconnected from the day-to-day. I think that Tim Cook genuinely believes Apple acts honorably and is sincere. This decision is still bullshit.
249. pseudalopex ◴[] No.25610036{11}[source]
That just says signed apps and kernel extensions must be notarized. Unsigned apps still work.
250. pseudalopex ◴[] No.25610105{6}[source]
Amphetamine changed the default.
251. shawnz ◴[] No.25610107{5}[source]
In my opinion they made the right choice here -- that is a much different behaviour than any other kind of menu bar icon has and it would be inconsistent with every other app and the OS itself.

It's a neat idea but that is just not the use case the menu bar was designed around and I don't think it makes sense for individual apps to go against the current in that way

252. blacksmith_tb ◴[] No.25610159{5}[source]
Handy, but not exactly easy on the eyes. I usually just us the -t flag to pass it seconds, like 'caffeinate -t 3600' to prevent sleep for the next hour.
253. kyriakos ◴[] No.25610235{3}[source]
No but in software it's normal to have metaphorical names. I don't expect to be able to make a salad with cucumber js or have tea time with chai

https://github.com/cucumber/cucumber-js

https://www.chaijs.com/

254. fjdjsmsm ◴[] No.25610327{11}[source]
The lawsuits were for iOS not MacOS.
replies(1): >>25611746 #
255. miked85 ◴[] No.25610475{7}[source]
> Yes, but it is not the norm.

It very much is the norm [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slotting_fee

replies(1): >>25610691 #
256. methodsignature ◴[] No.25610491{5}[source]
I posit that it is capriciousness, not hypocrisy.
257. webmobdev ◴[] No.25610691{8}[source]
Just because something is a popular business practice in the US doesn't make it a norm around the world too. And just because it found acceptance in one geography or some industry doesn't mean we have to accept the same it in another. A physical retail outlet is not the same as an online one, especially one that only sells digital products (software).
258. mypalmike ◴[] No.25610712{4}[source]
Or Sweetwater 420, which is neither sweet, water, nor 420.
259. asddubs ◴[] No.25610762{4}[source]
to be fair, gas stations are basically the bottom of the barrel when it comes to retail venues.
260. webmobdev ◴[] No.25610816{5}[source]
> I removed Caffeine from the App Store when Apple started complaining

Good for you! That is exactly what everyone needs do when Apple starts being pointlessly petty. Yes, operating systems have UI guidelines. But they are guidelines - sometimes a developer may come up with something better, especially for power users, and no such developer should have to waste time trying to communicate and convince some committee of this, and worse, wait for an approval from them to launch the product.

261. webmobdev ◴[] No.25610851{7}[source]
> I know I don’t give two hoots about what the neighbor does to their own home.

You don't give a damn till you need to sell off your property. Once it is in the market, you don't want your neighbours attitude turning of potential buyers, or worse, bringing down the value of your property. (I hate HOA's too, but a decently run one does help increase property value).

262. refulgentis ◴[] No.25611085{5}[source]
No, there isn't - certainly not for iOS, and not for Mac either, the App Store is barely hanging on by a thread
replies(1): >>25615400 #
263. devwastaken ◴[] No.25611672{3}[source]
Subscribing to the offended is advocating against yourself. The only reason why you don't generally see that kind of advertising is because it offends people.

The amount offended is far less than when Ronald reagan began his war on drugs - meaning that offense changes with time, and that offense changes based off of what other people believe to be acceptable. By allowing that kind of advertising you reduce negative reaction to it.

Also retail stores sell plenty of products that give all manner of nice names. Like death coffee. Or "personal massager" vibrators. Don't forget apple also hates the idea of sex, and that's plenty acceptable to market.

replies(1): >>25618164 #
264. frombody ◴[] No.25611702{4}[source]
You're creating a strawman argument.

Imagine it were called heroin, and the app logo used a picture of a syringe.. is it still okay to you because there is no heroin in the app?

replies(2): >>25611942 #>>25622395 #
265. saagarjha ◴[] No.25611739{6}[source]
It's got what plants crave.
266. saagarjha ◴[] No.25611746{12}[source]
Apple's developer program is the same for both.
267. frombody ◴[] No.25611751{4}[source]
Drug mafia sounds like something that should fall under this category.. but I don't see how Trivia Crack would unless they are showcasing drugs on their logo like Amphetamine.

I also don't remember plague inc showcasing any substance abuse, but I could be wrong.

268. saagarjha ◴[] No.25611760{10}[source]
There's no need to be confrontational. Apple themselves say that software must be notarized going forward in Catalina, as GateKeeper will check all apps that are quarantined, which is essentially all apps that you download from the internet. Apple would very much like you to notarize your applications and the workaround you provided is not intended to be a general-purpose solution.

GateKeeper will also flag your app as malicious and having the potential to damage your Mac if Apple revokes your certificate, which they have done in the past by mistake.

269. gambiting ◴[] No.25611942{5}[source]
Of course it is. I'd be interested in hearing your argument as to why it isn't?

Speaking of a straw man argument - heroin isn't a legal drug anywhere in the United states. Like the author pointed out, millions of Americans take legal amphetamines every year, I'd wager a bet that legal users of amphetamines outnumber the illegal users 10,000 to 1 or ever more. But all of that is irrelevant - the app doesn't promote the use of amphetamines any more than GTA promotes committing grand theft auto.

replies(1): >>25620585 #
270. Grustaf ◴[] No.25612130{5}[source]
*They're
271. bromonkey ◴[] No.25612410{5}[source]
This behavior design choice is exactly why I use caffeine :)
272. Hnrobert42 ◴[] No.25612419{6}[source]
I appreciate that this is your genuine belief. For the record, I upvoted your response.
273. op00to ◴[] No.25612531{3}[source]
I bought Microsoft Windows. It has no actual glass windows in it. Is it reasonable to demand the OS not be sold so to avoid confusion and false advertising?
274. Wowfunhappy ◴[] No.25613292{6}[source]
He said companies don’t get special deals, but then I don’t know what else to call the deal they made with Amazon, where Amazon can bypass Apple’s payment system for some users.
275. xiphias2 ◴[] No.25613306{6}[source]
Actually not at all: the elegant design of the difficulty adjustment means that even if the price of electricity went up or down by 10x, the rate of new Bitcoin issuance would change only temporarily.

I haven't met any Bitcoiner who wouldn't want CO2 emissions to be heavily taxed.

The problem with proof of stake that it decreases the security of the system. There are many ways to trade security of Bitcoin for convenience and extra features (Ethereum is a great example), but so far it seems that the market chooses security.

276. sbarre ◴[] No.25613436{9}[source]
> It's ridiculous to even try to say that a home owner will not weigh 50 different factors, and have to tolerate 10 things they do NOT want because they come packaged with 40 other things they either want or absolutely need.

You make it sound like there's a lack of options for homeowners when you say this. Where I live (Toronto) that is not the case.

Of course there is no perfect deal, there will always be things that aren't ideal but I don't know anyone (and I'm old enough to know lots of home owners) who has ever bought a house that had some kind of feature or clause they absolutely hated or didn't want.

If it's that bad, you don't buy that house, and you find one that better suits your needs.

Otherwise, you're understanding and accepting the terms, and you're willing to live with them.

I hate the argument that "people" are too stupid/naive/stuck to understand or avoid the terms of an agreement they're entering into.. except for the narrator who sees themselves as the smart person who is yelling about it from the mountaintop.

277. _qulr ◴[] No.25614737[source]
"Just got off a call with @Apple. Appeal accepted and Amphetamine will remain on the @AppStore."

https://twitter.com/x74353/status/1345421211677949957

replies(1): >>25615068 #
278. Solstinox ◴[] No.25615068[source]
Contrary to the original comment above yours, squeaky wheel gets the grease.
replies(1): >>25616777 #
279. dekhn ◴[] No.25615210[source]
On the contrary: https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/2/22210295/apple-developer-a...

In this case, the complainer had several important details on their side: Apple had previously featured the app, the rule that they said was violated wasn't violated, and they tolerate other apps which violate those rules. It seems likely Apple realized in this case that it would be easier to keep the app since it's not like the app was ruining their family friendly image (although many people, especially in the US, picture the negative effects of methamphetamine additiction when they hear "amphetamine", amphetamine is actually an approved drug used by many in the US).

280. MauranKilom ◴[] No.25615400{6}[source]
What about this? https://apps.apple.com/us/app/gastro-ex/id1202398609

(Full disclosure: I work at a sister company of Level Ex.)

281. regulation_d ◴[] No.25615946{3}[source]
This totally misses the main point: Apple could absolutely have brought this up within a reasonable amount of time. The issue here is reliance.

Granting app store approval to an app encourages the company to build around the app and around the brand. And Apple gave that approval for many years. And then, after all that time, decided that the brand is projecting an ethos that they don't approve of?

Apple's process doesn't just involve tacit approval. It's very active. They had so many opportunities to not give approval, to not hit the button, but they did and for quite a long time.

replies(1): >>25666844 #
282. eecc ◴[] No.25616166{7}[source]
Well, no. This reaction is what people refer to when they say "loss of privilege" causes reactionary behavior.

If you think of it, even when you're not at the top of the food chain in your social order, being part of a dominant group makes your actions still causal to some sort of undesired or painful (and therefore violent) consequence to a member of the out-group. Nobody gets to decide what's good or bad, you just need to follow the chain of opportunity cost, determine who foots the bill and who reaps the interest.

It's indeed pretty hard to swallow...

283. colejohnson66 ◴[] No.25616173{6}[source]
Those “popular judgements” were because the laws on discrimination say so. There’s no law saying a store has to sell what they don’t want to. If Target (for example) decides to stop selling Pampers because they don’t like the name (for whatever reason), that’s their choice.
284. _qulr ◴[] No.25616777{3}[source]
And my comment got downvoted of course. Because HN can't let pesky facts get in the way of good argument.

This site, sigh.

285. asddubs ◴[] No.25617622{7}[source]
I don't know, I think it's less absurd than your usage of the words "orwellian thought control" in the context of a different opinion on the definition of a word.

If I'm standing right next to the fuse box, and I see someone in the process of being electrocuted, isn't it violent to not flip the switch to save the person?

286. washadjeffmad ◴[] No.25618043[source]
https://www.macrumors.com/2021/01/02/amphetamine-app-store-r...

Apple has reversed their position after the developer appealed. They did not lose anything or have to rebrand.

Given this outcome and the minor expense in time it took to achieve, do you still stand by your advice that people should immediately support and enable a unilateral decision because there is a power difference between the parties?

How has this updated your beliefs about the likelihood of amenable redress with the App Store appeals process?

replies(1): >>25618780 #
287. sjs382 ◴[] No.25618101{5}[source]
Amphetamine does a lot more, so it's not a 1:1 replacement, but I prefer KeepingYouAwake, too.
288. paulryanrogers ◴[] No.25618164{4}[source]
> Don't forget apple also hates the idea of sex, and that's plenty acceptable to market.

Not so sure that's true in the USA. Though it could be payment processors and prudish culture are the drivers of this phenomenon.

289. kryogen1c ◴[] No.25618780[source]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
290. xadhominemx ◴[] No.25619793[source]
they named the app after a harmful drug that does the same thing the app purports to do. it is not a stretch at all to view the app as promoting drug use.
291. manigandham ◴[] No.25620475{5}[source]
That is the First Amendment, not freedom of speech.

One is law, the other is a principle.

292. sebmellen ◴[] No.25620562[source]
Thank God he didn't listen to you. Don't give up! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25618245.
293. rdiddly ◴[] No.25620585{6}[source]
I dunno, before I try a drug I usually scan the app store to see whether it's okay! heavy sarcasm
294. raverbashing ◴[] No.25621012[source]
If there was HN Gold, I would have given you some

Sounds like the Ray Ozzie motto

295. sneak ◴[] No.25621495[source]
When I walk into the latest iteration of the Apple stores, the ones with those giant LED jumbotrons, I wonder whose job it is these days to throw the sledgehammer at the giant propaganda screen.

This, too, shall pass.

296. moistbar ◴[] No.25622395{5}[source]
Do you truly believe that someone is going to see the word "heroin" next to a syringe and say "you know what, I should go shoot up some black tar?"
297. webmobdev ◴[] No.25666844{4}[source]
Yes, this is the real issue - when you distribute your app on Apple's App store, you are giving up control on a crucial part of your business and trusting Apple (a third party and a potential competitor) to not screw you in the future.