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1704 points ardit33 | 58 comments | | HN request time: 0.019s | source | bottom
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andreasley ◴[] No.24148645[source]
Epic Games has filed a lawsuit [1] and published a Fortnite-themed parody of Apple's "1984" [2] to get some publicity for it.

[1] https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-complaint-734589783.pdf

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euiSHuaw6Q4

replies(8): >>24148908 #>>24149547 #>>24149588 #>>24150052 #>>24150240 #>>24152704 #>>24152926 #>>24155057 #
1. ulfw ◴[] No.24152926[source]
A PR stunt from Epic and everyone's falling for it.
replies(4): >>24152953 #>>24152955 #>>24153018 #>>24153321 #
2. tommymachine ◴[] No.24152953[source]
Just thought this and came here to say the same. Well done then Epic.
3. dmix ◴[] No.24152955[source]
My favourite is trying to spin two billion dollar companies fighting over percentages as some “big brother” battle. I don’t remember this part of 1984.
replies(5): >>24153028 #>>24153170 #>>24153195 #>>24154452 #>>24154635 #
4. 0xy ◴[] No.24153018[source]
A PR stunt that consumers and small businesses could benefit from. 30% decimates indie studios and makes some apps fiscally nonviable.
replies(4): >>24153051 #>>24153052 #>>24155232 #>>24155702 #
5. eckza ◴[] No.24153028[source]
We've always been fighting against Eastasia.
6. tommymachine ◴[] No.24153051[source]
You’re kidding right? You think this is going to make a difference in the cut?

The word you’re looking for by the way is “financially”. Fiscally is to do with taxes.

replies(3): >>24153075 #>>24153082 #>>24153117 #
7. briandear ◴[] No.24153052[source]
Has it decimated an indie studio? Just curious as to what studios have been decimated.
replies(2): >>24153068 #>>24153120 #
8. tommymachine ◴[] No.24153068{3}[source]
Technically they’ve been triple-decimating everyone, since to decimate is to kill one tenth of
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9. 0xy ◴[] No.24153075{3}[source]
The word usage was correct. [1]

[1] https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fiscally

replies(1): >>24153109 #
10. julianlam ◴[] No.24153082{3}[source]
https://www.lexico.com/definition/fiscal

The OED establishes a North American usage of this term as "relating to financial matters", and is not exclusive to taxes.

replies(1): >>24153256 #
11. tommymachine ◴[] No.24153109{4}[source]
It literally says “public” treasuries or revenues there, public meaning government. It’s a common misconception apparently!
replies(1): >>24153168 #
12. surround ◴[] No.24153117{3}[source]
> You think this is going to make a difference in the cut?

I’m confused. Is that not the purpose of the lawsuit?

replies(1): >>24153235 #
13. oneoff1777711 ◴[] No.24153120{3}[source]
I’ve got an app in the works which would operate on such slim margins that a 30% cut may very well make it non-viable.
14. smelendez ◴[] No.24153168{5}[source]
The second definition says financial matters generally
replies(1): >>24153802 #
15. algorithmsRcool ◴[] No.24153170[source]
Epic might not be the little guy, but Apple is worth almost $2 Trillion. That is a pretty big brother.
replies(1): >>24156231 #
16. searchableguy ◴[] No.24153195[source]
I feel like epic has more to show off soon. Apple rejected facebook, microsoft and google in the last 2 weeks when they were trying to get their game centres approved.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/6/21357771/apple-cloud-gamin...

https://twitter.com/FacebookGaming/status/129170874980819763...

replies(2): >>24153267 #>>24154459 #
17. mdonahoe ◴[] No.24153205{4}[source]
Thanks, I learned something today!
18. tommymachine ◴[] No.24153235{4}[source]
It seems likely the purpose was to cause more people to think about the game Fortnite by virtue of the publicity from this.

It seem like something their lawyers pitched to them as “hey if it works, great, you save millions a year on the App Store percentage, and if it doesn’t, hey, at least you’ll get a whole lot of publicity, which should drive your sales up enough to more than compensate for the losses of being off the stores for a bit.”

replies(1): >>24154359 #
19. asveikau ◴[] No.24153256{4}[source]
I like how this was challenged and not "decimate".
replies(1): >>24153307 #
20. ccktlmazeltov ◴[] No.24153267{3}[source]
wow, how is that not unfair competition?
replies(2): >>24154065 #>>24155561 #
21. staunch ◴[] No.24153274{4}[source]
You've got two "aCkShuAlly" comments in this thread and they're both wrong.

1. The historical origin of "decimate" does not define the English word. Many words have historical origins that differ with their current definitions.

2. The word "fiscal" does not refer only to "taxes" but also to financial matters in general.

replies(1): >>24153760 #
22. ascorbic ◴[] No.24153290{4}[source]
In Latin, sure, but not in English. It's meant "kill or destroy a large proportion" for centuries. Wait til you hear about "December"
replies(2): >>24153326 #>>24153358 #
23. ◴[] No.24153307{5}[source]
24. 5cott0 ◴[] No.24153321[source]
Everyone fell for the Hey! stunt too what do you expect?
replies(1): >>24162437 #
25. staunch ◴[] No.24153326{5}[source]
Soon we will be told that a century cannot refer to a 100 year period but only a unit of Roman soldiers. The list of words that no longer mean what they once did is very long and it's lame (and wrong) to "correct" people like this.
replies(1): >>24153425 #
26. tommymachine ◴[] No.24153358{5}[source]
December is actually the tenth month. Jan & Feb were added later. It’s the tenth month that was added, though not the tenth month since the start of the year. The array of calendar months was shifted to make room for two additional months at the beginning of the year.

If I have a son, in December, then I have another son the next year in January, which one is my first son?

replies(2): >>24153417 #>>24153911 #
27. ascorbic ◴[] No.24153417{6}[source]
> Jan & Feb were added later.

At which point it was no longer the tenth month.

replies(1): >>24153863 #
28. tommymachine ◴[] No.24153425{6}[source]
A century can only refer to 100 miles ridden by bicycle
29. tommymachine ◴[] No.24153760{5}[source]
I find it odd that in your first point, you seem to argue that only the most popular, most used dictionary definitions shall count as being “correct” and in your second, you seem to argue just the opposite!

By the way, I never the said the guy was wrong to say fiscally. It was sort of a sloppy usage of the word—in my opinion of course. Which I hope its obvious that this is, seeing as its a comment in a forum!

And I’m certainly not wrong to say that fiscally is to do with taxes. I might have been wrong assuming that he or she was looking for a less ambiguous word. I do tend to assume the best in people, and am often wrong.

replies(1): >>24153875 #
30. tommymachine ◴[] No.24153802{6}[source]
A common enough misconception to be have been included in a dictionary!
31. tommymachine ◴[] No.24153863{7}[source]
My tenth son will always be my tenth son. Though his birthday falls 10 months after that of my twelfth son (whose birthday came in the second month of the calendar year in which he was born), my tenth son will always have come out of the womb tenth!
replies(1): >>24155854 #
32. staunch ◴[] No.24153875{6}[source]
> "...only the most popular, most used dictionary definitions shall count..."

No, I just understand that words can have multiple definitions and any of them is perfectly valid to use. You were simply wrong to "correct" them in both cases.

Here's what you did:

> "...a comment in a forum"

I think you meant "a comment on a web site" because a forum means an ancient Roman marketplace...see how stupid this game is?

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33. ◴[] No.24153911{6}[source]
34. tommymachine ◴[] No.24154017{7}[source]
I never corrected anyone, nor called anyone stupid— like you have.

Both comments were tongue in cheek.

Apparently since more explanation is clearly warranted, I’ll provide it.

In the comment about fiscally, I thought it odd that the person appeared to be concerned with whether indie developers, of which I am one, were going to be contributing to government revenues, since I’ve only ever heard fiscally used in a tax context by professionals. And certainly when I approach my financial strategy, taxes are always a consequence of the goal, and not the goal itself.

In the other comment, I was making a joke, which seems to have gone a bit over your head.

By the way, a “web site” is simply the location where an arachnid...

replies(1): >>24154105 #
35. dmix ◴[] No.24154065{4}[source]
Is Apple really directly competing with Nvidia’s GeForce Now, Microsoft's xCloud, or Google's Stadia?

All of Apple Arcade's games are just mobile games already available in the App store and reviewed individually. The above options are quite a different proposition and Apple's only grievance is they can't review the PC-style game content they are distributing.

It's probably more like Netflix than Apple Arcade, since they are streaming arbitrary content with subscriptions. But games have always been treated different, so again they are not being uniquely targeted.

(Not that I agree with blocking them)

36. staunch ◴[] No.24154105{8}[source]
Nah, I didn't call you stupid. I just meant that those kinds of "technically..." comments are lame and so often wrong. And they create boring threads like the one we're in here :-)

Anyway, I think you get my point and hopefully I wasn't too harsh but sorry if I was. Have a good day/night!

37. jjeaff ◴[] No.24154359{5}[source]
Seems like a very expensive stunt if they don't get concessions from apple. That app is literally making millions a week on iOS alone.
replies(1): >>24154975 #
38. aero-glide ◴[] No.24154452[source]
Simply because Epic has the money to fight for what I believe. The lawsuit isn't just about Epic, its about the bigger ramifications.
replies(1): >>24154912 #
39. aero-glide ◴[] No.24154459{3}[source]
What a disgrace. I hope consumers realize how bad this is. Imagine if something like that happened in the Desktop space.
40. ◴[] No.24154635[source]
41. pferde ◴[] No.24154912{3}[source]
No, Epic has the money to fight for what they believe, which, like all other modern corporations is getting money, more money, all the money. That's what corporations do. That's all they do.

Some of them are just better at bamboozling schmucks^Wmore naive consumers into becoming their loyal fans and projecting some nobler characteristics onto these corporations, and even identifying with their brand, and becoming an unpaid extension of the corporation's PR department by arguing for them ferociously on online forums.

There is nothing ideological about why Epic is doing this. The merely did their calculations and determined (or at worst made a safe bet) that the money invested in this will cause them to get more money in the long run, regardless of the outcome.

42. tommymachine ◴[] No.24154975{6}[source]
Ah it makes sense now.

Epic is the maker of unreal engine, which collects a 5% royalty on licensee game sales over $1M.

So they would stand to profit somewhat more than just from lower fees on Fortnite.

43. imtringued ◴[] No.24155232[source]
Apple must charge some fees so even with a 15% cut there is almost no difference in how much return you get from your app unless you have a high enough sales volume. Indies don't care about the cut because they don't get enough sales in the first place. Indies mostly focus on surviving, not about how to optimize their margin.
44. Razengan ◴[] No.24155561{4}[source]
Does Microsoft allow other stores on the Xbox?

What about Sony and Nintendo?

Does Epic allow people to buy stuff for Fortnite from outside of Fortnite and other companies?

replies(2): >>24156771 #>>24156977 #
45. yvdriess ◴[] No.24155702[source]
Regarding the 30% cut.

It's the large scale clients that are hurt the most by the 30% cut. Old timer indie devs who used to have to manage payment and distribution themselves, like Jeff Vogel, will tell you that Steam's cut is absolutely fair given the value it brings. On PC there are different platforms competing for Steam, which might be a reason why Valve introduced discount tiers for more successful titles. If an outcome of the PR stunt is that Apple decreases its cut, it will likely be a similar arrangement which does not benefit the small businesses.

The issue with the App Store is not the cut, but that it is the only gate to the iOS walled garden.

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46. dwaite ◴[] No.24155854{8}[source]
> My tenth son will always be my tenth son.

Unless you find you had two other sons you didn't know about.

replies(1): >>24158671 #
47. bananaface ◴[] No.24156117{3}[source]
I don't think Steam's cut is fair. Epic's cut is 12% and provide the damn game engine.
replies(1): >>24163051 #
48. saagarjha ◴[] No.24156231{3}[source]
Epic is not a little guy but they certainly are the little guy in this fight.
replies(1): >>24162427 #
49. whywhywhywhy ◴[] No.24156550{3}[source]
With Steam you're welcome to sell on steam and get the benefits with the cut and also sell on your own website.

It's not the same.

50. TheHypnotist ◴[] No.24156771{5}[source]
I don’t see how that would work per se, but, they do let you process payments for their in game currency via Xbox, Sony, whatever platform.
replies(1): >>24156815 #
51. Razengan ◴[] No.24156815{6}[source]
> I don’t see how that would work per se

Same way as the Steam Workshop and other mod-able games.

52. donkeyd ◴[] No.24156977{5}[source]
I would say no. However, you can still buy a game on disk and play that. A big argument on the anti-apple side is that there's no way around the app store, which isn't true for most consoles. It will be soon though, with more consoles losing disk drives.
53. tommymachine ◴[] No.24158671{9}[source]
In that case, he would have never been my tenth son, I would have only thought he was. No matter how hard we try, birth order is one of those things that can’t be changed, even with a revelation. Our mental model of it can be corrected, but the order itself is immutable.
54. m11a ◴[] No.24162427{4}[source]
They're not, really. Both companies have enough money to pay for the best lawyers and keep the case going for as long as it takes. There may be a big valuation difference, but it's a fair fight for that reason. Besides, Epic Games is owned by Tencent, which is worth considerably more than Apple, in terms of market cap.
replies(1): >>24164029 #
55. m11a ◴[] No.24162437[source]
I think the difference there is that Basecamp really is a small player compared to Apple, and it's bootstrapped. DHH's parade was a little tiring but he at least had a reasonable 'moral leg' to stand on. Epic Games doesn't even come close to that.
56. yvdriess ◴[] No.24163051{4}[source]
Steam provides loads of functionality and APIs to developers that is simply not on Epic's storefront: the best controller API out there, networking/server API infrastructure, achievements, friends-list, group chat/voice, a storefront to help people find games, an extensive patching and versioning system, everything is cross-platform and most windows games automatically work on windows thanks to Proton.

It's good that Steam has competition! And I wish Epic's was competing on features, but at the moment their platform only competes by having a lower cut and payed exclusives only. The only benefit to users has been that Epic funded certain games that would otherwise might not have happened.

replies(1): >>24163835 #
57. bananaface ◴[] No.24163835{5}[source]
I don't buy that, because most developers would roll each of those features on their own if it meant they could reduce the cut.

I get what you're saying, but I think companies monopolising eyeballs then charging you an entry fee is... Kinda bull. Skimming is fine, but I want their margins to be tiny.

58. saagarjha ◴[] No.24164029{5}[source]
> Tencent, which is worth considerably more than Apple, in terms of market cap

Sorry? Apple's is hovering around $2 trillion right now, Tencent's is less than trillion is it not? And they only own a minority stake in Epic…