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693 points macawfish | 65 comments | | HN request time: 2.122s | source | bottom
1. stego-tech ◴[] No.44545563[source]
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2. KumaBear ◴[] No.44545616[source]
[flagged]
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3. CamperBob2 ◴[] No.44545682[source]
These people will never actually ban pornography,

That's what I used to say about Roe v. Wade. "They'll never give up that wedge issue."

replies(1): >>44545883 #
4. raincole ◴[] No.44545710[source]
> These people will never actually ban pornography

Not sure how one can say that with a straight face when there are US states that literally block pornhub, but okay.

> If this was actually about porn on the internet, they'd be demanding Playboy get shut down, or PornHub. They're not

...

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5. heavyset_go ◴[] No.44545759[source]
You have it backwards, Pornhub preemptively blocked access based on geolocation before the bills even passed.
replies(1): >>44545788 #
6. ◴[] No.44545766[source]
7. flatline ◴[] No.44545772[source]
Note that pornography is not banned here in Texas at least. You just have to provide age verification, and PH elected not to participate in that process. It doesn’t seem like that wild a thing at face value.
8. afavour ◴[] No.44545773[source]
I think your comment would be well served by adding some reasons why.
replies(4): >>44545835 #>>44545850 #>>44545853 #>>44545885 #
9. viraptor ◴[] No.44545776[source]
It happened a few times https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65794363
10. raincole ◴[] No.44545788{3}[source]
So Pornhub hates money and traffic?

Of course not. Pornhub blocked these IP because they knew it was going to be (and is now) illegal in those states, at least at its current form. I see it no different from said states banning Pornhub.

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11. frogperson ◴[] No.44545791[source]
[flagged]
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12. khazhoux ◴[] No.44545797[source]
You’re right that they consume porn, but plenty of them still want to ban it, and not just because of LGBTQ. It’s all about moralistic virtue signaling by immoral people.
replies(1): >>44545920 #
13. anotherevan ◴[] No.44545799[source]
The Great Bible Battle

https://archive.md/60QZV

14. khazhoux ◴[] No.44545812[source]
This is not the gotcha people think it is. Bible thumpers only pay attention to a few sections of the new testament anyways.
replies(1): >>44545934 #
15. heavyset_go ◴[] No.44545817{4}[source]
Pornhub did it in protest[1], hope this helps.

[1] https://www.abc4.com/news/tech-social-media/pornhub-blocks-a...

replies(1): >>44545866 #
16. anon84873628 ◴[] No.44545819[source]
[flagged]
17. raspasov ◴[] No.44545831[source]
Breaking news: VPN stocks skyrocket.
18. beejiu ◴[] No.44545835{3}[source]
Because youths don't have developed critical thinking skills and HRT is an invasive medical treatment!?
replies(2): >>44545849 #>>44545994 #
19. makeitdouble ◴[] No.44545845[source]
In agreement, just to nitpick a single point:

> These people will never actually ban pornography, because they consume pornography.

Banning porn won't affect them: mainstream porn will find a way (dealing with rulings will just be a cost of business).

And more than anything, making it technically illegal allows for selective enforcement, which means a lot more power for them to decide who wins and who loses.

20. dymk ◴[] No.44545849{4}[source]
Zero kids are getting HRT without their parents consent, don’t spread transphobic FUD
replies(1): >>44545910 #
21. xienze ◴[] No.44545853{3}[source]
Because kids are highly impressionable and have limited ability to make sound judgements?
22. afavour ◴[] No.44545857{4}[source]
It appears you and I have different definitions of “sharing HRT tips”.
23. stego-tech ◴[] No.44545863[source]
I can guess which, and I implore you to do some reading from actual medical professionals and groups on this.

And if you’re still opposed to it, the solution is regulation - not criminalization.

replies(1): >>44546593 #
24. omarspira ◴[] No.44545866{5}[source]
The bills still passed so what's your point? The protest failed.
replies(1): >>44545902 #
25. stego-tech ◴[] No.44545883[source]
They never banned abortions for themselves, just made it more difficult to get if you’re not getting an “acceptable” one (i.e. have the money to go where it’s legal or have a private family doctor who can make Bastard Fetus go bye-bye).
replies(1): >>44546172 #
26. lelanthran ◴[] No.44545885{3}[source]
Because kids are impressionable and easily manipulated.

It's why there is an age of consent that no kid can waive.

It's why kids aren't allowed to do lots of things, like vote, drive, drink etc.

There needs to be a compelling reason to make an exception for one politically charged thing that comes with irreversible physical changes.

There also needs to be a compelling reason why that decision cannot be deferred until age of majority.

replies(1): >>44545964 #
27. heavyset_go ◴[] No.44545902{6}[source]
That you have it backwards, because you do. Pornhub preemptively blocked states that were considering implementing ID rules, and states are not actively blocking Pornhub.
replies(1): >>44546075 #
28. beejiu ◴[] No.44545910{5}[source]
It's not about the kids of their parents, it's about other parties that are promoting or encouraging HRT to other people's kids.
29. heavyset_go ◴[] No.44545920[source]
The irony of course are stats like these.

From "Data Finds Republicans are Obsessed with Searching for Transgender Porn"[1]:

> So far in 2022, more than 300 anti-LGBT bills have been proposed across 36 states – at least one third of which are directed at trans youth. This surge, especially in anti-trans legislation from Republicans, stands in stark contrast to a startling fact.

> Republicans love transgender porn, a lot.

> With more than 4.7 Million transgender porn related Google searches each month (per Ahrefs.com), do Republicans represent those searching most? The answer seems to be a clear yes.

[1] https://lawsuit.org/general-law/republicans-have-an-obsessio...

30. RajT88 ◴[] No.44545934{3}[source]
[flagged]
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31. giingyui ◴[] No.44545952{3}[source]
I always wonder if these arguments are ever made in good faith. Comparing a treatment for diabetes to HRT. But there are people who really are off the deep end. So who knows.
replies(1): >>44546014 #
32. beejiu ◴[] No.44545963{3}[source]
Yes, it should apply to all medical treatments targeted at children, since children don't have developed critical thinking skills.

Do you think it's appropriate for random people to tell a 10 year old how to take their insulin? I don't.

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33. felixgallo ◴[] No.44545964{4}[source]
the child can't consent to medical procedures without a parent, today, and if the parent says no, the decision is deferred until the age of majority.
replies(1): >>44546092 #
34. NikolaNovak ◴[] No.44545973[source]
Thank you for that, I've been looking for a decent pre-AI/Non-wikipedia summary like that. Unsurprisingly but depressingly, at least 13 out of 14 points are a perfect match.
replies(1): >>44547079 #
35. kennywinker ◴[] No.44545993{4}[source]
Given how many trans kids commit suicide when prevented from transitioning, i’d say both save lives. And that’s why i’m ok with it. Because going on puberty blockers until you’re 18 seems like a very non-invasive way to thread the needle of patient care for minors
replies(1): >>44546032 #
36. NPC82 ◴[] No.44545994{4}[source]
Putting aside that MDs trained in medical ethics should be the ones to decide the end-all debate of HRT for those under 18y/o (or maybe 24 by your standard) -- I would imagine "tips" here is mostly about logistics of navigating the US health system and filling in health-effect anecdotes where science has yet to affirm/study (which encompasses more areas of health than you might think). Also, "Invasive" and "non-invasive" are usually reserved for surgical contexts so I'm not sure I would apply that here.
37. tialaramex ◴[] No.44545998[source]
Tenets.

A tenant is somebody who has a lease, for example to an apartment or one of those big metal sheds for a supermarket, and by analogy, customers of something like Microsoft's "Entra ID" (what was "Azure Active Directory" at least the new name is less confusing)

A tenet is a belief or principle that you believe in absolutely, I think we'd say that this "protects but does not bind / binds but does not protect" idea isn't a tenet of Fascism but instead an observable trait.

replies(1): >>44546179 #
38. kennywinker ◴[] No.44546014{4}[source]
Made in good faith. And HRT is very rarely given to minors. The standard of care is puberty blockers until their 18.

Question about your good faith:

Do you have a problem with puberty blockers when given to non-trans kids? I.e. for precocious puberty

39. kennywinker ◴[] No.44546023{4}[source]
I mean at least you’re consistent - even if you want to ban diabetics from chatting about their care online.
40. beejiu ◴[] No.44546032{5}[source]
The recent UK Cass Review concluded "It has been suggested that hormone treatment reduces the elevated risk of death by suicide in this population, but the evidence found did not support this conclusion."

Do you have any counter-evidence?

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41. Kinrany ◴[] No.44546043{4}[source]
I agree, but it can go too far as well. It's not healthy for children to be limited to knowing only their parents' and the government's opinions on serious topics. There has to be a balance between avoiding indoctrination and being aware of brain development schedule.
replies(1): >>44546072 #
42. kennywinker ◴[] No.44546044{6}[source]
Yes: the cass review is very badly done and misinterprets the data available.
replies(1): >>44546083 #
43. beejiu ◴[] No.44546072{5}[source]
I somewhat agree, but exposure to global online content is hardly natural in terms of brain development.
44. omarspira ◴[] No.44546075{7}[source]
You don't seem to grasp the argument.

From above:

> These people will never actually ban pornography

> Not sure how one can say that with a straight face when there are US states that literally block pornhub, but okay

You then say, well actually they weren't blocked by the states, they were blocked by the sites themselves to protest a bill that passed.

The issue is this clarification is totally irrelevant given the context of the above comment.

The root comment claims in this domain, the right wing is targeting "anything other than heterosexuality". Not sure what their evidence of that claim is. I would think anyone with even a basic familiarity re the right-wing American culture warrior would know this isn't the case. They are simply following the standard far right modus operandi, which is to start their cultural attack on the most vulnerable at the margins where it is easiest.

Similarly, passing age verification is essentially a strategy to enact an effective ban, because it is a demand that cannot be met and is easier to pass than an outright ban. So the comment suggesting it's not serious to suggest this is simply or _only_ about "anything other than heterosexuality" is correct, or at least, not impeached by your conclusion they have it backwards by essentially hyperfocusing on some rather irrelevant pornsite protest tactic which entirely misses the point. If anything, the fact they passed the bills after the self initiated “bans” simply bolsters the rejoinder to the root comment.

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45. beejiu ◴[] No.44546083{7}[source]
So you have no counter evidence?
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46. tialaramex ◴[] No.44546085{5}[source]
Nope. Phyllis Schlafly's son Andrew (Phyllis is the woman who more or less single handedly ensured the ERA didn't pass, persuading American women that somehow they didn't even want equality) ran (still runs maybe?) a web site where among other things he "re-translates" the Bible so that e.g. Jesus's preaching is "Properly" translated to mean whatever it is suits his worldview.

Religion is about believing things you have no evidence for, that's its whole thing.

replies(1): >>44548107 #
47. lelanthran ◴[] No.44546092{5}[source]
> he child can't consent to medical procedures without a parent, today, and if the parent says no, the decision is deferred until the age of majority.

What does the parent's opinion have to do with it? Their opinion is equally ignored when it comes to statutory rape, no?

This is not a "this is a private matter between the child and the parent" scenario. Some things are, but a clear majority of people do not feel that this should be one of those things.

48. heavyset_go ◴[] No.44546147{8}[source]
Here's the OP I'm responding to:

> Not sure how one can say that with a straight face when there are US states that literally block pornhub, but okay.

Note the word "literally" in the statement that US state are literally blocking Pornhub.

That is not the case. Pornhub blocked the states preemptively, not the other way around.

Hope this helps.

replies(1): >>44546194 #
49. raincole ◴[] No.44546148{8}[source]
Thanks. Can't put it as eloquently myself.
50. mandmandam ◴[] No.44546153{8}[source]
If you actually wanted counter evidence I'm sure you could find it yourself. There's enough of it out there.

So, what is it that you're actually looking for?

51. tialaramex ◴[] No.44546172{3}[source]
You can see how this model worked in Ireland for example.

Historically Abortion was literally prohibited constitutionally in the Republic. That changed†, one of my friends lived there at the time and she's got a picture somebody made (painted? sketched?) on her wall of the group watching the results come in. But for most of my life, abortion was absolutely illegal in the Republic of Ireland.

So, if you were poor, too bad no abortions, they're illegal. But if you're wealthy you just decide to "go on holiday", maybe a long weekend somewhere nice - and miraculously while abroad you stop being pregnant. No problem

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty-sixth_Amendment_of_the_...

52. ◴[] No.44546179{3}[source]
53. omarspira ◴[] No.44546194{9}[source]
I get it and yes, you are technically correct that they are not "literally blocking" it. I just hope you can also see where I'm coming from. In context of the larger comment thread your reply felt like a nitpick that missed the point, and focused on that nitpick to the detriment of the larger point of that OP, which imo has some merit. Or at least some merit you didn't address. But I understand you are correct on this particular point. As a suggestion, maybe next time you could reply more as providing context rather than seeming to suggest their entire take was "backwards". Thanks for replying.
54. Hikikomori ◴[] No.44546354{4}[source]
And if doctors develop treatment plans for trans children its ok?
55. protocolture ◴[] No.44546442{4}[source]
>One treatment saves lives, other “treatment” essentially shortens your lifespan, and most likely causing you to never have kids again.

The older I get, the more I understand people who prefer quality of life, over longevity.

56. globnomulous ◴[] No.44546515[source]
> much to the chagrin of people whose power comes from harming LGBTQ+ persons/treating them as scapegoats.

To their "chagrin?" Huh? The meaning of the word is the opposite of whatever you're trying to communicate, I think.

57. margalabargala ◴[] No.44546593{3}[source]
> I implore you to do some reading from actual medical professionals and groups on this.

Reading their comment charitably, one might want the trans youth to also get their information from actual medical professionals and groups rather than random internet strangers.

Analogously, sharing information about DIY at-home abortions with people on the internet is also dangerous as hell and will hurt people. In the world we currently live in it may be better than the alternative, but in a better world both of those are not pieces of information that anyone should need to find online.

58. uv-depression ◴[] No.44546854{6}[source]
Not the person you were replying to, but the Cass review was quite clearly bunk. Its main thrust is essentially: "there are no double blind studies on the effects of affirming care for minors, so we should stop prescribing it immediately". Aside from the fact that the conclusion does not follow from the premise, how exactly could one do a double blind study on puberty blockers? So the report throws out essentially the entire body of research for failing to meet an impossible to meet standard.

Here's more information: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12874-025-02581-7

replies(1): >>44552079 #
59. yoyohello13 ◴[] No.44547079{3}[source]
Well, jury is still out on #14…
replies(1): >>44547677 #
60. mystraline ◴[] No.44547677{4}[source]
Gerry and Mander told me to say hi.

(Seriously, gerrymandering, redistricting weaponization, bribery/campaign contributions, and the like are all forms of election corruption.)

61. scns ◴[] No.44548107{6}[source]
> Phyllis is the woman who more or less single handedly ensured the ERA didn't pass, persuading American women that somehow they didn't even want equality

There is a series on Disney+ about this, "Mrs America". Worth watching.

62. jmb99 ◴[] No.44548409{4}[source]
> since children don't have developed critical thinking skills.

So should everyone under the age of 25 (roughly when your brain becomes fully developed) be prohibited from talking about any kind of medical treatment?

Also, how do you expect people to develop critical thinking skills if they’re never presented with challenging concepts or, you know, required to think critically about things?

63. bobalob ◴[] No.44552079{7}[source]
> So the report throws out essentially the entire body of research for failing to meet an impossible to meet standard.

This is disinformation that is easily shown to be false if you read the final report.

In fact this lie was so widely disseminated that the authors felt they had to address it in the FAQs on the Review website: https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-r...

> Did the Review reject studies that were not double blind randomised control trials in its systematic review of evidence for puberty blockers and masculinising / feminising hormones?

> No. There were no randomised control studies identified in the systematic reviews, but other types of studies were included if they were well designed and conducted.

replies(1): >>44557215 #
64. kennywinker ◴[] No.44557215{8}[source]
https://osf.io/preprints/osf/uhndk_v1

CRITICALLY APPRAISING THE CASS REPORT: METHODOLOGICAL FLAWS AND UNSUPPORTED CLAIMS

65. kennywinker ◴[] No.44557243{8}[source]
Let me google that for you:

https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-health-and-wellness/horm...

And on the subject of the (methodologically trash) cass report:

https://osf.io/preprints/osf/uhndk_v1

CRITICALLY APPRAISING THE CASS REPORT: METHODOLOGICAL FLAWS AND UNSUPPORTED CLAIMS