The Bible contains literal instructions for genocide, and many Christians bemoan anci nt Israel for not following those instructions to the letter.
[1] Figure 2, "What is your impression of Zionism?", https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-do-americans-feel-abo...
From this behavior, one would think support for Israel was the central pillar of the Christian faith.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christians_in_t...
* neither positive or negative
* don't know, or
* unfamiliar
If you look for surveys that ask about support for Israel directly, you will get significantly different numbers.
My guess is that the global political elite are a small social circle of wealthy powerful people. And that if an action is socially acceptable within that group then it has little cost in the real world. It is not a conspiracy or anything or an evil plot. It is just how people behave.
The real news is how the BBC, Guardian, NYP and all mainstream media repeats and amplifies israeli discourse taking it at face value as objective truth
For some, it is their primary goal. They think the end times are near, and by escalating the conflict they hope to make it happen as soon as possible.
They support Israel because the Bible says that those that bless Israel is blessed. On the other hand, they think only some Christians will survive the end times, so any non-christians (jews included) that are hurt, doesn't really matter. It's just collateral damage in a holy war.
It is one of the reasons why this conflict is so special for many.
This is not a conspiracy, but a minority of evangelical Christians with access to lots of money that pays lobbyists. They don't even try to hide it, and you can read about this from traditional news sources that has covered this for years.
He wasn’t orthodox, didn’t believe God promised anything to anyone, didn’t speak Hebrew, but after the Dreyfuss affair (usual racist fake accusation BS) started to petition Rothschild (he was denied) and then other wealthier Jewish people with more success to start buying sand dunes and swamplands for Jewish families to return to Israel.
Herzl is definitely worth either reading or just studying for HN, the books are short and to the point, they dispel a lot of myths one gets from the media, and starting a country is a fairly ambitious project worth studying for any founder.
It is for dispensationalists. Of course, that heresy only popped up a couple hundred years ago and goes against what Christians have always believed, that the Church is the New Israel, not some modern state.
This forum being basically being the h1b aspirant phpbb I'd expect more pro-israel sentiment from our indian cohorts like on other platforms-- but they overwhelmingly seem to be pro-palestinian here. I suppose the typical rss hindutva pro-israel accounts we see allover the rest of the internet might be lower class indians while ycombinator selects for more california-aligned values and gets more international ones with the precooked contemporary neoliberal value-set?
If I was a politician that advocated Britain is for the British, and that whites should only hire other whites so that minorities have to leave due to economic pressure, how would you view me?
Or is this wrong?
A quick google doesn't support your assertion that he made those comments on "their" (BBC's) social media. And for me "a journalist they've worked with" doesn't equal "one of their correspondents".
But oh well, it's the age of emotions overriding our judgements, the question is, who's doing more of that between the 2 of us.
And your "general thread" is inaccessible since it requires making an account on a Nazi website...
If we want to collectively punish people who voted for (or whose election resulted in the rule of) a bunch of fucking morons, well... I have some bad news for US citizens...
To answer the question anyway: Jewish and British and French and Arabs and Ghanaians and Balinese may want to hire their own, but there’s a certain point where the rubber hits the road and you may find someone outside the group with the skills or contacts you need.
Am I the only one aware of this? Everyone else seems to be blind in one eye...
In all other times, one aide would have completely erased the other side. Yet, here we are, the Palestinians have yet to surrender.
None of the Arab countries that fooled the Palestinians into believing that they will one day be liberated want them.
I've seen comments unironically arguing for collective punishments when it came to the US, and they're at least popular enough that they don't show up as gray/[flagged].
Israeli violence is unprecedented in several objective metrics: in pounds of bumbs dropped, percentage of civilians death, percentage of civilian household destroyed (on par with Dresden now).
I.e. "My family is starving, I have less money than others, so it's ok for me to steal bread" (hat tip to Jean Valjean).
Just curious about your perspective.
> The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) insists at least six of the medics were linked to Hamas - but has so far provided no evidence. It admits they were unarmed when the soldiers opened fire.
They really are pivoting to "these unarmed medics we shot without identifying them deserved it".
But a poor hungry person is a lot more likely to commit a crime of opportunity that feeds them and their family than a well of, well fed person.
Maybe you are actually agreeing with me.
My view, as a neutral observer to the Hamas / IDF debate is they are both wrong and you would ( inclusive you not you specifically ) would probably do the same... Cough Afghanistan etc...
When? You haven't made that point, only discussed that Herzl said Jewish people should hire other Jewish people, which is common among all groups of people, fairly benign and was almost universal in the past.
You mean 'judging people by their own published thoughts'.
> A quick google doesn't support your assertion that he made those comments on "their" (BBC's) social media.
That wasn't the allegation in the comment you are responding to. Rather the allegation was that someone the BBC hired hates Jewish people, as shown on the person's social media.
> making an account on a Nazi website...
I thought really hard about engaging with you after you discussed this conspiracy theory but thought I may as well correct your post in case anyone didn't see what you were doing. This will be my last post in the thread. Seek help.
Yes, but why?
Is this a cabal of Jews trying to hide the truth? (no, it is not).
Or is it that the atrocity isn’t highly relevant to discuss on a hacker news thread, and also hard to have people follow HN Guidelines? (Much more likely explanation)
It's easy to say "both sides" committed immoral actions, but that doesn't really get us anywhere useful, other than perhaps some moral superiority.
If we want to actually solve problems, i.e. prevent those bad things from happening in the future, the practical suggestion is to start with those people who have the most power to effect change.
There is ample footage online of fighting between the two, and Hamas fighters don't wear uniforms. Which fits with Hamas fighting right out of the guerilla warfare playbook.
So it can be reframed as "How do you reconcile Israel killing innocent civilians with the fact the the main way to tell if they are innocent is whether or not they had a gun in their hands when killed?"
But the world did see how Palestinian prisoners were raped in prisons.
[1] https://imgur.com/a/TmKGadc [2] https://imgur.com/a/C6bsMp7 [3] https://imgur.com/a/ADsmgWy
I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that it's ok for the IDF to kill anyone they see because they cannot assess if they're a threat or not? Was it hard to see that this grandmother¹ with her grandson is not a militant trying to attack the IDF?
¹https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/01/25/palestinians-gaz...
https://www.un.org/sexualviolenceinconflict/wp-content/uploa...
The guidelines themselves say posts should be "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity."
No I don't think it's a cabal of Jews, but I've seen posts get flagged for being critical of YC or OpenAI, and just a few days ago PG's essay got flagged seemingly just for vague references to the current political climate. There are clearly people using the flagging system to take down posts they don't like and it's always justified with "the post was off topic" even though there are no objective rules for what is on topic.
In a democracy, propaganda works, because of weak democratic implementation. If democracy is an ideal able to be realized, it would protect against that.
The burden is on the shoulders of the citizens, culture and state. Without education in the sense of critical thinking, intelligence isn't developed enough to establish democratic structures.
- On 23 March, IDF ambushes a convoy of 5 ambulances, a fire truck and a UN vehicle responding to a distress call.
- 15 paramedics and aid workers are massacred. There is 1 survivor.
- Israel buries the bodies in shallow graves along with ambulances and the the fire truck and bulldoze over the site. This is picked up by satellite imagery.
- Israel blocks access to the area and refuses to cooperate with agencies trying to find & recover the bodies.
- The IDF and Israeli foreign minister claims that the vehicles were "advancing suspiciously toward IDF troops without headlights or emergency signals" and it eliminated "a hamas military terrorist ... who took part in the October 7 attack" and "eight other terrorists" from Hamas and PIJ .
- Lone survivor gives own account contradicting Israeli's version of events.
- The mass grave and bodies are uncovered on 30th March. A smartphone with the relevant footage is found among the remains.
- Smartphone footage recovered repudiates all of Israel claims and corroborates the survivor's account. That the emergency vehicles had their emergency lights and headlights on, many of the workers were wearing high-viz jackets. No weapons, or terrorists or IDF in sight.
- None of the names of the victims match the names of the "terrorists" given by Israel. The "hamas October 7 terrorist" is also not among the bodies.Looking at the headlines and articles, I have to say that the BBC and the western media outlets did a better job burying the lede than Israel did, burying the bodies.
We have video footage of IDF raping prisoners[2] and we have footage of one of the rapists being treated like a celebrity and getting standing ovations on Israeli national tv [3][4].
If i had to list all the video footage just from the last 18 months alone, i would be here all day and it would likely ruin your day. If anyone has still not woken up to the reality of what Israel is, its not for lack of video footage.
[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBkNDNj05XA [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2024/aug/08/israeli-... [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UNWxLz6_ME [4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UNWxLz6_ME
Right...
"We shall try to spirit the penniless [Arab] population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country ... The removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." - diaryentry from Herzl's diary 1895
> He wasn’t orthodox, didn’t believe God promised anything to anyone
Back then, most of the Orthodox were anti-zionists.
I dont know why you brought up Herzl anyway, since he died in 1905 and was not as representative of the modern state of Israel as compared to its other founders like David Ben-Gurion, David Ben-Gurion, and Yitzhak Shamir.
Sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm not talking about war crimes like you brought up, I'm talking about general combat between the two sides, like you can see in the gazillions of videos posted (both by Israeli sources and Palestinian sources).
Israel has the intelligence and capability to pin point their targets and deploy high precision targeting, as demonstrated in Lebanon and Iran. After seeing so many war crimes committed by the IDF, I'm convinced that while they can assess and eliminate targets in a precise fashion, thus minimizing civilan casualties, they deliberately _choose_ not to do so.
That's a concept I've believed in since Stan Lee illustrated it so beautifully to me as a child.
I'm not qualified to engage in serious ethics debates, and I'm definitely not qualified to hold an opinion on anything going on in the middle east.
Watching the news and scrolling social media in no way prepares me to understand the deep and complex issues of the region.
I was just curious about your perspective. Thanks for explaining.
I just don't see how that makes it ok to camouflage as civilians. If Hamas cannot take on Israel, then the war is lost and it's better to go to the table and take what you can get rather than let your whole population die while staving off the inevitable.
Japan was in a similar situation in WW2, where they armed the populace (men and women) and gave them basic instruction on how to fight. This was in preparation for a land invasion, and the emperor was ready to sacrifice as many civilians as it took to protect his empire.
But the bombs dropped, they went to the table (knowing they would get bent), and avoided mass death of Japanese civilian "soldiers".
> The United Nations Report on Sexual Violence found that there were reasonable grounds to believe that “sexual violence occurred in Kibbutz Re’im, including rape.” The rape of women happened on Route 232, “outside of a bomb shelter at the entrance of Kibbutz Re’im, which was corroborated by witness testimonies and digital material.