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Video footage appears to contradict Israeli account of Gaza medic killings

(www.bbc.com)
187 points r721 | 3 comments | 06 Apr 25 08:32 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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Workaccount2 ◴[06 Apr 25 15:26 UTC] No.43602117[source]▶
How do you rectify the simultaneous feelings that arise from knowing that Israel is shooting innocent civilians and knowing that Hamas uses ambulances to carry out missions?

Am I the only one aware of this? Everyone else seems to be blind in one eye...

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khaledh ◴[06 Apr 25 18:38 UTC] No.43603798[source]▶
> Hamas uses ambulances to carry out missions

Not trying to defend Hamas, but is there any actual proof of this? Or is it just based on Israel's statements (which has been found to lie repeatedly)?

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Workaccount2 ◴[06 Apr 25 21:30 UTC] No.43605117[source]▶
Sure, you can reframe it to leave out Israeli news sources.

There is ample footage online of fighting between the two, and Hamas fighters don't wear uniforms. Which fits with Hamas fighting right out of the guerilla warfare playbook.

So it can be reframed as "How do you reconcile Israel killing innocent civilians with the fact the the main way to tell if they are innocent is whether or not they had a gun in their hands when killed?"

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khaledh ◴[06 Apr 25 23:30 UTC] No.43605905[source]▶
> the main way to tell if they are innocent is whether or not they had a gun in their hands when killed?

I'm not sure I understand your point. Are you saying that it's ok for the IDF to kill anyone they see because they cannot assess if they're a threat or not? Was it hard to see that this grandmother¹ with her grandson is not a militant trying to attack the IDF?

¹https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/01/25/palestinians-gaz...

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Workaccount2 ◴[07 Apr 25 13:57 UTC] No.43611560[source]▶
My point is very clear: Hamas purposely doesn't issue uniforms (they are extremely wealthy, so it's not like they cannot afford it) in order to muddy the waters between civilian and combatant. Put another way: Hamas's choice camouflage is "Civilian attire".

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I'm not talking about war crimes like you brought up, I'm talking about general combat between the two sides, like you can see in the gazillions of videos posted (both by Israeli sources and Palestinian sources).

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1. khaledh ◴[07 Apr 25 14:06 UTC] No.43611695{4}[source]▶
Thanks for explaining. I think the answer to your question lies in the fact that Hamas is not a regular army. They're fighting an army that has the most advanced weapons and tech on the planet, and they can't put a target on their back while moving around. This has been the case throughout history when the indigenous resistance fights a mighty colonial army.

Israel has the intelligence and capability to pin point their targets and deploy high precision targeting, as demonstrated in Lebanon and Iran. After seeing so many war crimes committed by the IDF, I'm convinced that while they can assess and eliminate targets in a precise fashion, thus minimizing civilan casualties, they deliberately _choose_ not to do so.

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2. Workaccount2 ◴[07 Apr 25 16:23 UTC] No.43613175[source]▶
>Thanks for explaining. I think the answer to your question lies in the fact that Hamas is not a regular army. They're fighting an army that has the most advanced weapons and tech on the planet, and they can't put a target on their back while moving around. This has been the case throughout history when the indigenous resistance fights a mighty colonial army.

I just don't see how that makes it ok to camouflage as civilians. If Hamas cannot take on Israel, then the war is lost and it's better to go to the table and take what you can get rather than let your whole population die while staving off the inevitable.

Japan was in a similar situation in WW2, where they armed the populace (men and women) and gave them basic instruction on how to fight. This was in preparation for a land invasion, and the emperor was ready to sacrifice as many civilians as it took to protect his empire.

But the bombs dropped, they went to the table (knowing they would get bent), and avoided mass death of Japanese civilian "soldiers".

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3. khaledh ◴[07 Apr 25 20:54 UTC] No.43615830[source]▶
> it's better to go to the table and take what you can get rather than let your whole population die while staving off the inevitable.

They did. Israel broke the ceasefire agreement for no reason.