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307 points MBCook | 95 comments | | HN request time: 1.271s | source | bottom
1. legitster ◴[] No.42150811[source]
In a big picture, this makes sense. You can load the cars with safety features, but it doesn't change the fact that these cars are very heavy, very fast, and loaded with features that reward distracted driving. In the US at least, the top killer of drivers are trees on the side of the road.
replies(9): >>42150846 #>>42151064 #>>42151101 #>>42151122 #>>42151123 #>>42151373 #>>42151792 #>>42152029 #>>42153004 #
2. ToucanLoucan ◴[] No.42150846[source]
In a bigger picture, cars are a bad solution to the problem of transportation at scale, and really always have been. As safety features go up, complacency goes up, and to be blunt that's combining with the fact that drivers are getting consistently worse overall at the skill anyway.

Between EV's that are much, much heavier than ICE cars and SUVs/Trucks that are much larger than they need to be, vehicles themselves, despite having more safety features than ever, are also better at killing that they've been at a long time too.

We really need to get serious about improving our transportation infrastructure.

replies(4): >>42150907 #>>42150969 #>>42151095 #>>42155357 #
3. randomdata ◴[] No.42150907[source]
> We really need to get serious about improving our transportation infrastructure.

Better yet, we really need to consider urbanization. That way everything you need is right there by your own two feet. No need for any extra special transportation at all.

It seems people have a burning desire to live the rural lifestyle, though, even in so-called cities. I'm not sure we can actually overcome that pressure.

replies(4): >>42150975 #>>42150980 #>>42151034 #>>42151039 #
4. heywire ◴[] No.42150969[source]
I would wager that most people don’t want to use public transit regularly. I know I certainly don’t.
replies(3): >>42150992 #>>42151056 #>>42151110 #
5. ar_lan ◴[] No.42150975{3}[source]
> It seems people have a burning desire to live the rural lifestyle, though, even in so-called cities.

I just want like... to not be stacked like a sardine for $3500/mo. I would gladly take a rural lifestyle if I could find a job that would support it.

replies(2): >>42151059 #>>42151306 #
6. ghaff ◴[] No.42150980{3}[source]
Many of us simply don't want to live in expensive urbanized environments (especially in more desirable ones)--at least at many points in our lives, so yeah no.
replies(2): >>42151112 #>>42151380 #
7. ToucanLoucan ◴[] No.42150992{3}[source]
Your desire to not be inconvenienced is not as important as the lives of other people who are being killed unnecessarily for it.

That being said, to be clear, I don't think we need to make driving illegal or whatever. I think a TON of people would happily not be saddled with the expense of owning a car or the task of driving if there were reasonable alternatives on offer, which in the few pockets of the US that actually have decent mass transit, is broadly the case.

replies(1): >>42151168 #
8. Gibbon1 ◴[] No.42151034{3}[source]
Suburbia is this thing like commuting in a car that's great as long as everyone isn't also trying to do it.
9. p_j_w ◴[] No.42151039{3}[source]
Even with heavy urbanization you'll need some form of transit on top of walking. Have you ever visited any really big cities (eg. Tokyo)? Every time I'm in one, I get the impression they would grind to a standstill without their mass transit systems.
replies(2): >>42151086 #>>42151132 #
10. gorbachev ◴[] No.42151056{3}[source]
That's because most Americans haven't seen a public transport service that works well.

Visit or live in a major European city for a while and you are likely change your tune.

11. randomdata ◴[] No.42151059{4}[source]
Stacked like a sardine for $3,500/mo, yet still have to travel long distances to do anything. The curse of the wannabe rural city. But, as people want to (or at least want to pretend to) live in a rural area, change is unlikely.
12. littlestymaar ◴[] No.42151064[source]
> You can load the cars with safety features, but it doesn't change the fact that these cars are very heavy

Being heavy is actually a safety feature of sort (but just for the people inside the car, it increases overall fatality).

replies(3): >>42151124 #>>42151336 #>>42151650 #
13. randomdata ◴[] No.42151086{4}[source]
> Have you ever visited any really big cities (eg. Tokyo)

Yes, these are the rural areas of which we speak. Everything gets spread out and then you're stuck travelling long distances to do anything, just like those who live in actual rural areas. There is no question that transportation is necessary in a rural area.

A proper urban environment, however, puts everything right there in a short distance. No need to ever travel beyond where your feet can take you. That's the whole reason for living so close to other people.

But it's clear that people want to live in (or pretend to live in) rural areas. It seems to be in our nature. As such, there is a lot of pressure to maintain the way things are. Hence the ill-conceived cries for better transportation to maintain the rural way of life instead of actually embracing urbanity.

replies(1): >>42151193 #
14. toast0 ◴[] No.42151095[source]
> In a bigger picture, cars are a bad solution to the problem of transportation at scale

They're not a great solution to transportation at scale, but they're pretty good at small volume point to point traffic.

There's not enough people going my way on most of my trips to make transportation at scale worthwhile. Ferries work well for part of many of my trips, but I can take a car on the ferry to deal with the lack of scale on either side.

I could sometimes take a bus to the ferry, walk to light rail and take light rail to the airport. But the bus only runs during commute times, so that impacts viable flight times, and the walk to the light rail got pretty sketchy in the past several years and light rail itself can be sketchy too.

Most of my cars run fine any time of day, although peak traffic is annoying, and I'm dealing with lighting issues on one so I can't take it out unless I know I'll be home before dusk.

15. dpats ◴[] No.42151101[source]
> In the US at least, the top killer of drivers are trees on the side of the road.

Do you have a source on that?

replies(1): >>42151618 #
16. afavour ◴[] No.42151110{3}[source]
I think a lot of people would be happy to use it if it was convenient and reliable. I live in NYC and haven’t had to drive to/from work in over a decade. I consider the subway ride a vast, vast improvement over driving… but only when the subway works right.
replies(2): >>42151220 #>>42151242 #
17. ToucanLoucan ◴[] No.42151112{4}[source]
I mean the problem isn't those who don't want to live in cities nor is it those who want to live in cities: the problem is the suburbs, which is where those two meet. People who aren't in and do not desire an actual rural lifestyle where one has a standalone home on a large plot of land in the middle of nowhere, but also don't want a condo. They want their own little plot of land, with a small yard, and a standalone home.

And like, same. That's also me.

But the problem is the actual costs of that style of home are incredibly, heavily subsidized by the cities they surround and indeed even the rural areas they border, because suburbs are just... a bad goddamn way to house people. They're incredibly inefficient, basically require your own personal car, require the most infrastructure build-out for the smallest population, require the largest footprint of services over the largest area to serve the smallest number of people, etc. etc.

And like, I don't think it's unreasonable to say if you want to live this way, that's fine, but then you need to actually pay for it. Your property taxes need to reflect how much it actually costs to serve your property, to build the huge number of roads needed to access it, to maintain those roads, to maintain the electrical grids, to maintain the water and sewage services, to bus kids to schools, etc. etc. etc.

And yeah that's going to make suburbs WAY less appealing because they're going to be fucking expensive but like, the alternative is, again, everyone wanting that, and not paying for it. The dense urban centers they surround absolutely hemorrhage money supporting the suburbs around them.

replies(2): >>42151268 #>>42152998 #
18. kevinqi ◴[] No.42151122[source]
Aside from the distracted driving part, which is real, there are two physical aspects of the model 3 that I find to be safety issues as well-- the two front windshield beams are thick and add a sort of blind spot, and the side mirrors don't give you great field of view.
replies(5): >>42151166 #>>42151563 #>>42151719 #>>42152335 #>>42153221 #
19. akira2501 ◴[] No.42151123[source]
> and loaded with features

"Ludicrous mode."

> the top killer of drivers are trees on the side of the road.

It's actually alcohol and drugs. Which is the reason those drivers find themselves in the trees.

replies(2): >>42151170 #>>42151742 #
20. Gigachad ◴[] No.42151124[source]
Trees are anchored to the ground. Being heavier just reduces your ability to stop.
replies(2): >>42151265 #>>42151374 #
21. CalRobert ◴[] No.42151132{4}[source]
Even a decent town puts most things within a walk or bike ride. San Luis Obispo comes to mind as an example.
replies(1): >>42151251 #
22. nomel ◴[] No.42151166[source]
Same with my older Toyota. They stuffed airbags in them, which is nice, but I've had several times where an adult on a bike is completely obscured, with my passenger having to scream "stop!". After the second time, I now bob my head like a maniac to look around them.

Can't wait for displays on pillars, to make them appear transparent.

replies(2): >>42153301 #>>42153575 #
23. ghaff ◴[] No.42151168{4}[source]
That said, I drove into a nearby city after dark which is increasingly early last night. There are no reasonable alternatives--I will for a 9-5 event but just doesn't work for the evening. There's a decent mass transit system including commuter rail but it it's just not organized around coming in at 5pm. It's chaos with cars/cycles/escooters/pedestrians often randomly crossing streets, poor visibility, etc. I mostly just don't go in any longer.
24. ToucanLoucan ◴[] No.42151193{5}[source]
I would say that's better characterized as an opposition to urbanization that's designed for and presumes the ownership of cars by those who live there, and to that I heartily agree! Gridlock-bound US cities are a nightmare to navigate, but again, that is not the fault of the city, that is also the fault of the car and how inefficient it is as a transport solution.

If cars simply didn't exist, our cities would not, could never have, been designed the way they are, in any way.

replies(1): >>42151253 #
25. mandymoorefan ◴[] No.42151212{3}[source]
North Carolina next question.
26. nomel ◴[] No.42151220{4}[source]
The vast majority of people I talk to, including myself, don't use public transportation for:

1. Time. For example, my commute is 25 minutes, but 2 hours ride and three mile walk by public transport.

2. Safety, intimately tied to the homeless problem.

3. Cleanliness. In my experience, related to #2, and the fact that government institutions are incapable of caring about user experience, because they get funding regardless. Matted, stained fabric seat cushions, and dried whatever caked on the floor.

There's nothing better or remotely alluring about public transportation for the vast majority of people (as shown by gridlock traffic).

replies(3): >>42151293 #>>42151365 #>>42151408 #
27. rich_sasha ◴[] No.42151247{3}[source]
I never understood how in America, a DUI seems to be (from films etc) a relatively minor issue. In the UK you get a prison sentence, even if you didn't cause any harm (eg we're spot-tested).
replies(4): >>42151317 #>>42151330 #>>42151447 #>>42151459 #
28. oblio ◴[] No.42151251{5}[source]
I've never understood the argument about small towns being worse for urbanism.

Back in the day, before cars were widespread, everything had to be close by.

You don't even have to sacrifice the backyard for that, you can have a city layout that puts the houses themselves fairly close to each other, and the yards can radiate outwards. Then you connect each cluster's main street with the other ones, but unlike suburbs, you make each "subdivision" mixed-use and you allow public transit , pedestrians and cyclists to cut across subdivisions for easy access everywhere.

If anything, small towns should be urbanism done right, because they don't (shouldn't?) have the money for sprawl and they don't have all the pressures for increasing density a lot, that big cities have.

replies(2): >>42152426 #>>42155555 #
29. randomdata ◴[] No.42151253{6}[source]
> If cars simply didn't exist, our cities would not, could never have, been designed the way they are, in any way.

Nah. Many cities long predate the car. They absolutely were designed in the same way they are still found now, aside from what are now roads were squares for people to walk in. Return the road back to being a square and nobody would be able to recognize that there was a car era. But, so long as the people want to live a rural lifestyle, good luck…

30. mcculley ◴[] No.42151257{3}[source]
How is California special in that regard? Many states lack the infrastructure or density to allow for proper enjoyment of alcohol.
replies(2): >>42151319 #>>42152692 #
31. rich_sasha ◴[] No.42151265{3}[source]
Maybe that's good when hitting a tree? Slower deceleration, less force.
replies(1): >>42151376 #
32. ghaff ◴[] No.42151268{5}[source]
Around where I live (greater Boston metro) most of the tech jobs are actually out in the suburbs/exurbubs. There were basically no tech jobs in the city ~20 years ago any longer. (It's mostly only changed with the establishment of of satellite offices of some west coast companies.)
replies(1): >>42151310 #
33. afavour ◴[] No.42151293{5}[source]
Like I said, when it works right. A 2 hour ride and three mile walk is very obviously not a viable commute.

As for safety, you’re orders of magnitude more likely to get into a car crash than have anything happen to you on the NYC subway. Yes, incidents happen but they’re dramatically inflated in the public consciousness.

Your objection (and most of the others I see) aren’t objections to the fundamental nature of public transit, rather they’re objections to shit public transit or to urban life in general (whole lotta city car parks that aren’t clean!). Which is entirely understandable. But there are plenty of examples of functional public transit serving millions of people in cities across the world. Those people aren’t all secretly wishing they were in a car.

34. oblio ◴[] No.42151306{4}[source]
This is a colossal failure for humanity, primarily due to home ownership as an investment vehicle, plus regulatory capture pushed by the car companies and oil and gas companies.

There is no technical reason we can't have livable, quiet and spacious apartments, where multiple apartment buildings share a huge, enclosed backyard (almost park-like, even), a setup with tons of small shops, pharmacies, easy access to everything, etc.

Plus you can also have access to large parks, in a suburb you'd never have access to those, just your limited backyard.

But most places will never have that...

replies(1): >>42151637 #
35. ToucanLoucan ◴[] No.42151310{6}[source]
With respect, it doesn't matter. Suburbs cost far more than they bring in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMeKl-Sv0
36. SamoyedFurFluff ◴[] No.42151317{4}[source]
A big problem is that America is huge, and relatively sparse at that. You have to drive just to get to the pub!
37. connicpu ◴[] No.42151319{4}[source]
Unless you're wealthy enough to live in the core of a major metropolitan area, it's all of the states.
38. throwup238 ◴[] No.42151330{4}[source]
For the average American with no criminal record it’s relatively serious. It depends on the state but you’ll usually spend the night or weekend in jail until you can make bail. It can have career repercussions and America’s lenient approach to road accidents goes out the window so if anyone gets hurt except you, there will be a felony charge up to manslaughter.
39. postalrat ◴[] No.42151336[source]
It ain't working then because these heavy cars tend to have more fatalities.
replies(1): >>42151699 #
40. maxerickson ◴[] No.42151365{5}[source]
It's kind of boring to respond to a comment about public transit needing to work well by complaining about how it doesn't. Especially when limiting investment has often been an explicit choice in whatever given area.
replies(1): >>42158983 #
41. akira2501 ◴[] No.42151370{3}[source]
Actually that would be Texas. Texas has more road fatalities than California. This is _not_ per capita, but in total, which is an interesting statistical point in and of itself.

The data is really easy to get. I wish more people would avail themselves of it.

replies(1): >>42151464 #
42. SoftTalker ◴[] No.42151373[source]
What makes sense to me is the top 3 cars:

Tesla - autopilot that really isn't, gets fooled in many situations, driver lulled into not paying attention, can't react quickly enough when the computer bails, and ends up driving into a bridge abutment at 75mph.

Kia - cheap cars built to minimum safety standards driven by young people who aren't very experienced drivers.

Buick - cars driven by geriatrics whose declines in vision and reaction speed probably should have resulted in their licenses being revoked five years ago but who still insist on driving themselves.

replies(2): >>42151874 #>>42209263 #
43. bastloing ◴[] No.42151374{3}[source]
Decreases your tendency to flip over. I'm astonished by all the dashcam videos out there showing collisions, usually the first thing an ice car does is flip over. Not EVs though.
replies(1): >>42151947 #
44. jkaptur ◴[] No.42151376{4}[source]
I think they meant that it's more difficult to stop before beginning to impact the tree.
replies(1): >>42151843 #
45. consteval ◴[] No.42151378{3}[source]
> Well this touched a nerve.

It's just a little funny you think California is unique in this regard. Pretty much all of the US is extremely underdeveloped when it comes to public transportation. Hillbillies in the boonies have to drive a lot too.

replies(1): >>42151455 #
46. HeatrayEnjoyer ◴[] No.42151380{4}[source]
Urbanization decreases costs.
replies(1): >>42152475 #
47. SamoyedFurFluff ◴[] No.42151408{5}[source]
I just think you have shite public transport, mate. I can’t imagine anywhere in nyc you’d have to walk 3 mi to get anywhere??

Sure if I said public transport is strictly superior because I drive a car that breaks down constantly, you’d see the problems not cars, yeah?

48. doctorpangloss ◴[] No.42151447{4}[source]
DUI simply isn't enforced. If it were, the number of arrests would be stratospheric, and people's lives would be completely upended by being unable to drive.
49. ◴[] No.42151455{4}[source]
50. dylan604 ◴[] No.42151459{4}[source]
I mean, from films etc, us Yanks would think everyone in the UK is piss arse drunk 24/7, sounds like a chimney sweep waiting for Mary Poppins, sends their kids to magic schools, and all live in castles wearing period clothing, all while their gov't watches everything they do from CCTV.

However, most of us understand that films etc are made up stories told for entertainment where if we based our expectations of people solely on that information we'd be grossly mistaken.

There are plenty of people that have their lives severely tilted if not turned upside down from a single DUI. There are also people of means that get off with a much less interruption to their day. I'm guessing it is the same on your side of the pond as well.

51. doctorpangloss ◴[] No.42151464{4}[source]
Huh? I agree that there are way too many DUI deaths everywhere. The thing I am mocking is this idea that "MY group DOESN'T have these problems and YOUR group DOES." In one case, the group is Tesla owners; another case, the group was, I guess, trees on roads; another was people who drink and drive - a typical HN reader, I am confident, believes that he does not belong to that group. And yet. Perhaps there is a group that the typical HN reader belongs to that does indeed drink and drive.
replies(1): >>42151685 #
52. GuB-42 ◴[] No.42151563[source]
It is a problem with most modern cars, and it is actually for safety reasons. These beams have to support the entire weight of the car in case it flips over in order to protect the occupants.
replies(2): >>42151660 #>>42153580 #
53. legitster ◴[] No.42151618[source]
> From 2016 to 2018 an average of 19,158 fatalities resulted from roadway departures, which is 51 percent of all traffic fatalities in the United States.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/RwD

replies(1): >>42152961 #
54. nradov ◴[] No.42151637{5}[source]
Even nice apartments are pretty miserable places to live if you have multiple small children, or engage in hobbies or activities that require much equipment. Imagine coming home to your apartment with a muddy mountain bike. Do you haul it up to the 4th floor in the elevator and wash it in your shower? It's possible to make it work but living in a single-family home (or townhouse with attached garage) sure makes regular life a lot easier.
replies(1): >>42171876 #
55. legitster ◴[] No.42151650[source]
In insurance they call it the "law of lugnuts" - bigger cars have better survivability in direct collisions.

However, most traffic fatalities do not come from direct collisions. They come from driver hitting immobile objects.

Smaller, lighter cars take less kinetic energy with them around corners, are easier to steer and avoid obstacles, and are more likely to stay upright when leaving the road.

56. MBCook ◴[] No.42151660{3}[source]
A rule we have due to giant high center of gravity SUVs. Rollovers weren’t as big a problem when everyone had sedans.

A car should survive a rollover. But when you make them big & heavy, those pillars have to be big and thick and you get large blind spots.

57. ggurface ◴[] No.42151685{5}[source]
Your point didn't come across at all.
58. almatabata ◴[] No.42151699{3}[source]
The study seems to contradict this: "When broken out by size, small cars have the highest fatal accident rate while midsize and full-size cars are both below average."

And later in the study, “When two small cars collide the forces are equalized and both vehicles tend to hold up well. But if a compact hatchback and a full-size pickup truck try to occupy the same space at the same time, the smaller car always loses.”

59. legitster ◴[] No.42151719[source]
Also, the instrument cluster is located in the center, outside of the driver's direct view. And most of the important controls for the driver do not have tactile buttons.
replies(1): >>42152082 #
60. legitster ◴[] No.42151742[source]
If you have driven around rural roads in the US, you realize it does not take alcohol to leave the road. A moment of distraction is all it takes to get into a ditch.

https://highways.dot.gov/safety/RwD

replies(1): >>42152157 #
61. jvandonsel ◴[] No.42151792[source]
Simple solution. Cut down all the trees on the side of the road.

You’re welcome.

62. rich_sasha ◴[] No.42151843{5}[source]
Still. If I'm going to hit a tree, I'd rather drive a tank than a motorbike.
replies(1): >>42151950 #
63. vikingerik ◴[] No.42151874[source]
I'd also venture that the profile of Tesla drivers is also a factor along with those other two brands. I'd be pretty sure that Tesla owners collectively drive more aggressively than the average car on the road. Teslas aren't being driven by soccer moms and careful grandmas.
replies(5): >>42152567 #>>42152652 #>>42152995 #>>42153293 #>>42153704 #
64. bena ◴[] No.42151947{4}[source]
That's more a factor of weight distribution rather than weight itself.

EVs carry their weight lower to the ground. SUVs and pickup trucks are more top heavy. Passenger cars have a higher probability to rollover, but not that much greater than an EV.

replies(1): >>42152071 #
65. JasonSage ◴[] No.42151950{6}[source]
Cars have crumple zones which a motorbike does not.

A lighter car requires less work from the crumple zone to decelerate the car into non-fatal territory than a heavy car.

66. Mountain_Skies ◴[] No.42152029[source]
>In the US at least, the top killer of drivers are trees on the side of the road.

A decade or so ago the Georgia Department of Transportation tried to do away with the trees between streets and sidewalks because of so many fatalities coming from collisions with trees. Clearing out an "automative recovery zone" as they called it likely would have saved lives of some people in vehicles but of course it would increase the danger to pedestrians, who might or might not be present at that moment. Lots of trade offs in these types of analysis and not all of them are always immediately obvious.

67. bastloing ◴[] No.42152071{5}[source]
Ice cars have a much higher rollover risk compared to EVs. All the data supports that along with physics. Absolutely weight distribution. Compare the heavy battery in an EV vs the heavy motor that's up a bit higher in an ice car. Pretty much any hit over around 20mph to the front quarter panel of an ice car, truck, or SUV will flip it over.
68. Rygian ◴[] No.42152082{3}[source]
Which are those controls?

I drive a Tesla since 2019 and have never needed a touchscreen control for the driving itself.

69. moralestapia ◴[] No.42152157{3}[source]
>A moment of distraction

Indeed, people really under(over?)estimate how small a loss of attention has to be to become catastrophic.

I once wanted to know the name of a track that was playing while driving on the highway. I looked right to the stereo display and read it, that probably took a tenth of a second, but it happened right at the moment when something came into my lane and I had to veer off not to hit it, I did not hit it but also almost drove the car out of the road.

When you're distracted, even if you're looking straight ahead, coming back to reality, assessing the situation, reacting, ... takes at least a couple seconds and that's a lot of time in these scenarios.

70. BLKNSLVR ◴[] No.42152335[source]
Same with both of my Mitsubishis. There's a roundabout near where I live that, when approaching it from one angle, the "beam" on the right hand side of the windshield totally obscures the whole road leading to the roundabout from another angle.

I have to shift in my seat to crane around to see if there is oncoming traffic I have to give way to.

They're both 10+ year old cars.

71. rufus_foreman ◴[] No.42152426{6}[source]
>> Back in the day, before cars were widespread, everything had to be close by.

My grandparents, and their parents and grandparents before them, all grew up on farms (as did the majority of Americans during that time).

No, everything did not have to be close by.

They certainly did appreciate cars when they became affordable though.

replies(1): >>42171884 #
72. rufus_foreman ◴[] No.42152475{5}[source]
How much does 160 acres of land cost in rural Kansas? Maybe $500,000? How much does 160 acres of land cost in Manhattan? Maybe $800,000,000?

Urbanization decreases some costs and increases others.

73. aziaziazi ◴[] No.42152567{3}[source]
Does the insurance cost vary between two cars almost identical in every relevant points but the brand? Not a rhetorical question.
74. duderific ◴[] No.42152652{3}[source]
Lots of soccer moms driving Teslas in the Bay Area. Know several myself.
75. aziaziazi ◴[] No.42152692{4}[source]
There also clear lack of alcohol enjoyment education. Gather at friends place and stay overnight, carpools and draw a sober Sam, don’t get overdrunk and drink water for the last 90 min of the party, etc…

I do agree infras and density is a better option. But lack of infra doesn’t justify to drive drunk.

replies(1): >>42167449 #
76. gamblor956 ◴[] No.42152961{3}[source]
FTL: "FHWA defines a roadway departure (RwD) crash as a crash which occurs after a vehicle crosses an edge line or a center line, or otherwise leaves the traveled way. Another term our partners often use is lane departure, which is synonymous with RwD, since both include head-on collisions when a vehicle enters an opposing lane of traffic."

Road departure fatalities are high because of head-on collisions, not because there is an epidemic of people crashing into trees along the side of the road. If you follow the links on the cited page, they clearly show that head-on crashes result in more fatalities than tree+utility pole crashes.

77. buffington ◴[] No.42152995{3}[source]
Where I live, I'd estimate that a third of the passenger cars are Teslas. No data to back that up, but that's what I tend to see day to day. The diversity of drivers is significant enough to suggest that "all kinds of people" drive Teslas.
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78. ghaff ◴[] No.42152998{5}[source]
I don't know. My town has a budget. We argue over property taxes at town meetings. We argue over enterprise zones like distribution centers that certainly aren't going in the middle of large cities. We argue over school spending that tends to be lower than in large cities. No one is wiping out highways that connect large cities to other places.
79. gamblor956 ◴[] No.42153004[source]
In the US at least, the top killer of drivers are trees on the side of the road.

This is false. Your cited link (https://highways.dot.gov/safety/RwD) clearly demonstrates that head-on collisions cause more fatalities than tree+utility pole collisions combined.

80. tzs ◴[] No.42153221[source]
I've never been in a Tesla so don't know if this would work, but you might try getting a small convex mirror (often called a "blind spot mirror") like these [1] at Amazon. I linked Amazon for convenience. They should also be easy to find locally at anyplace that has an auto section like Walmart, or auto parts stores like NAPA, O'Reilly, and AutoZone.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/s?k=blind+spot+mirror

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81. LUmBULtERA ◴[] No.42153293{3}[source]
Model Y are driven by tons and tons of “soccer moms” and dads. Probably the most common car now per capita, at least in my area.
82. tzs ◴[] No.42153301{3}[source]
The pillars on my 2006 CR-V haven't been a problem. Did pillars get bigger on newer cars, or did Honda use smaller pillars, or what?

They are wide enough that their horizontal angular width could be larger than the horizontal angular width of a pedestrian more than a couple or so meters away but due to their angle there is plenty of the pedestrian still visible.

I spent a while just sitting in a busy parking lot watching people go by and seeing how their visibility changed and I couldn't find any situation where I'd have trouble seeing a pedestrian unless they were far enough away that there was no chance I'd hit them even if I never saw them.

83. kevinqi ◴[] No.42153557{3}[source]
good tip, thank you!
84. kevinqi ◴[] No.42153575{3}[source]
yeah I've had a similar experience with a bike and do the head bob thing now too. glad to know it's not just me
85. kevinqi ◴[] No.42153580{3}[source]
ah interesting, that makes sense witas an explanation given the heavy Tesla base
86. not_a_bot_4sho ◴[] No.42153704{3}[source]
This runs completely opposite of my observations. Especially with Model Ys, which seem to be driven exclusively by parents. (Call them "soccer moms" if you want.)
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87. SoftTalker ◴[] No.42153843{4}[source]
A third? Wow. Where I am they are not exactly rare but uncommon enough that I still notice them when I see them. I see a few a week I'd guess. Pre-pandemic I knew one person who owned a Tesla. And now... I know two people who own a Tesla, but one of them lives in another country.
88. incognition ◴[] No.42154358{4}[source]
Soccer moms are aggressive man. Don’t know where you are. One wrapped hers around a tree here tho
89. thebruce87m ◴[] No.42155357[source]
> much, much heavier

https://thedriven.io/2024/05/03/are-evs-really-much-heavier-...

> full electric versions are only around 10% to 15% heavier than their direct ICE equivalent

I don’t think “much, much” should be used when we are talking 10-15%. This will mislead people. There are outliers of course.

90. CalRobert ◴[] No.42155555{6}[source]
Indeed, and there are small businesses mixed in with the houses. But the problem is cars (it's always cars). A coffee shop next to your house is fine - a delight even - when 20 people arrive by walking or biking. When it's 20 cars though it's misery.
91. nomel ◴[] No.42158983{6}[source]
Yes, I was just listing specifically how it doesn't work well, for me and most people. I'm not arguing against the concept or something. It's an extreme chicken and egg problem, with almost certainly no solution that would work outside of SF and NY type densities.
92. mcculley ◴[] No.42167449{5}[source]
I’m not justifying drunk driving. I asked how California is different from other states in this regard.
93. oblio ◴[] No.42171876{6}[source]
> Imagine coming home to your apartment with a muddy mountain bike. Do you haul it up to the 4th floor in the elevator and wash it in your shower?

We have the tech for this, we could have literal multi-bike sheds/parking garages and all that's needed is 1 (ONE) water source with a hose inside. As I said, failure on the part of our species :-)

In my city there are actually a few public bike washing stations, so the game plan in this case would be just to bike that way before coming home.

94. oblio ◴[] No.42171884{7}[source]
You're most likely talking about homesteads, which are a minority of rural housing around the world in my experience.

In most of the world villages have at least a cluster of homes nearby, since having other humans close is super handy when shit hits the fan.

95. bsder ◴[] No.42209263[source]
> Buick - cars driven by geriatrics whose declines in vision and reaction speed probably should have resulted in their licenses being revoked five years ago but who still insist on driving themselves.

It takes until 85+ years old to match the accident frequency of the 16-25 years old cohort. Should we ban young adults from driving?

The reality is that the drivers tests should be MUCH more stringent for all cohorts. The reality is also that not having a car in the US is a horrible handicap.

So, we are stuck in a very suboptimal spot until self-driving cars come online.