“How America took out the Nord Stream pipeline”

I disagree - there is no credible motive here for Russia and, in fact, the outcome was directly opposed to every outcome they are, or were trying, to achieve.

Not only do I, as a US citizen, believe that the US perpetrated this act but further: I believe it is an overtly hostile action against EU citizens and, particularly, Germans, who will suffer the most economically.

EU states are now buying US natural gas like we always wanted them to. How much pain and suffering were we willing to inflict to make that happen ?

Seeing as Russia was already using gas supplies as a political tool, it doesn't seem too far fetched.

In the scenario where America did it, I think there is a strong argument to be made that it was in the long-term interests of EU citizens, despite causing them some short-term discomfort. They never should have started this pipeline project in the first place, buying energy from Russia made the EU weak. Breaking that relationship permanently will make the EU stronger.

You have no idea what's going on.

Also, are you arguing that having less choice in market supply is good better for EU?

Besides, things are going on pretty okay. Electricity prices are stabilizing and Europe will eventually become greener as well. No matter who did it, blowing up the pipeline was a good thing.

To give you one credible motive for Russian involvement: Russia cut off Europe of Gas supplies to get leverage on the Ukraine conflict, but this largely failed as European countries pooled their gas reserves and vowed to move away from Russian gas. As Russia could see that this market was lost the explosions were a last punch to send gas prices higher before the European winter and protect Gazprom from lawsuits. The mild weather killed that first motive, let's see about the other.

Weekly snapshot: Russian fossil fuel exports 16 to 22 January 2023:

* The week of 16 to 22 January 2023, the EU was the largest importer of Russian fossil fuels.

* The EU imported pipeline gas, oil products and LNG, as well as crude oil via pipeline or rail.

* The top five EU importer countries last week were the Netherlands, Slovakia, Germany, Belgium and Italy. [1]

[1] https://energyandcleanair.org/weekly-snapshot-russian-fossil...

In September it was already clear that a weak polar vortex would make for a frosty winter in the northern hemisphere. It was just luck (for Europe) that it hit North America and not Europe. During summer in Germany every week more people were drumming up (literally) demands to open Nord Stream 2.

There was no way of being sure a German government wouldn't flip under pressure once people were freezing and showing up with torches at the Reichstag.

But one September night someone went in and shot the hostages...

Fortunately, EU managed to store up plenty of gas and the winter was mild, so russian blackmail has failed.

Until you can defend yourselves, you are.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Pipe

Putin was still trying to energy blackmail Europe back then. It is hard to see the explosions as anything else but a threat that the Baltic Pipe could also be blown up -- and the Nord Stream pipes weren't very useful to Russia at that point so it wouldn't cost much to lose them.

Coincidentally, the Russian sphere is one of the groups mad about the UN involvement in Bosnia and Serbia

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russian-gas-europe-v...

So Ukraine is "essentially supporting genocide of Ukrainian civilians"?

Hooray for global warming?

Who can invade EU, Russia after their showing in Ukraine? China from half the world away?

EU militaries have multiple times the budget of the RU army.

We don't need 11 carriers to defend ourselves.

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/infographics/eu-gas-suppl...

https://www.bbc.com/news/58888451

They had more air defense than Germany, France, and the UK combined, though the systems were not quite as capable individually.

They had nearly as many active duty military as Germany, France, and the UK combined, and a huge number of reservists with experience fighting in the War in Donbass against Russian military and paramilitary forces with tanks and artillery, as opposed to jihadists with no real heavy weapons of any kind.

Their airforce was mostly comparable in size to any one of the above, though again not as capable qualitatively.

And they had a hell of a lot more artillery and artillery shells than Germany, France, and the UK combined. By a massive margin, although again not quite as capable individually. Nearly all of the NATO-standard artillery ammunition that has been provided to Ukraine has come from US stockpiles, because at the rate Ukraine consumes artillery ammo Germany, France, and the UK would be collectively tapped out in about 10 days. Not to mention HIMARS ammunition.

The Russians were also rather handicapped by the reckless, arrogant stupidity of their plan and extreme secrecy resulting in soldiers selling their fuel rations for alcohol, because until a day or two beforehand they thought was all a bunch of western lies because that's what the government was saying publicly. With the result that a bunch of vehicles ran out of fuel halfway to Kyiv. Had the invasion been done according to doctrine rather than as what they expected to be an immediate victory as the Ukrainians laid down their arms, awed by their superior military power, the story may still have turned out very different.

Anyway, Ukraine had, by a very significant margin, the largest military in Europe excluding Russia, and certainly the most experienced in fighting "real" wars. Take this into consideration when boasting about how easily the rest of Europe would be able to handle a Russian invasion.

There is no scenario in which Russia could successfully invade an appreciable part of the EU, even without taking into account European nukes.

Personally I’d call the groups committing literal genocide the butchers, not the groups taking action to stop it. To each their own opinion.

It's about a documentary which made some waves, accusing the involved politicians of outright lies and exaggerations as justification for military action, which in turn then lead to the things they fabricated.

It was called 'Es begann mit einer Lüge/It started with a lie'

https://programm.ard.de/?sendung=281116097670119

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/umstrittene-ard-dokum...

Now we have to rely on the US and there is nothing worse than relying on the US. Europe just showed once again it failed to learn anything from the Suez crisis. The US should never be trusted. They are not a reliable and only care about themselves.

Europe has been mismanaging its relationship with the BRIC since the end of the Cold War. We are too dependent on NATO. Not that there is much to expect from the EU. Every addition since 1995 has only weakened it.

Honestly Europe would be far more peaceful now without NATO. The US has mostly been a destabilising force for the past three decades.

Also Norway can replace a lot of the Russian gas supplies.

That's expected as there's no longer the pipelines everyone is discussing in this comment section.

Italy has a much more capable armoured force than Ukraine did at the time.

You are comparing T64s, vehicles designed in 1951 to modern vehicles? How do you think they are performing when it comes to firing on the move, engaging at night, accuracy, survivability?

Tanks newer than T64 have been long retired to reserve in Europe. There are many IFVs today capable of putting holes in T64s' in service today.

> The Russians were also rather handicapped by the reckless, arrogant stupidity of their plan

Such disrespect! Russia is an exemplary conservative society with traditional values!

Europe is 27 countries, not 3. Its's half a billion people. Europe combined has more operational vehicles than Russia does. Has a larger standing army than Russia does. A much better air force, and relies on it for air defence, not on ground-based missiles.

I never said 'easilly' but imagining that Russia can occupy half a billion people is downright crazy

I'm sure the Italians are very capable but they've never demonstrated holding off a tank force 8x their size.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/03/31/ukraines-be...

Whether the Russians can occupy successfully isn't the point, they can do a ton of damage in a short amount of time, not to mention the torture and rape.

Recent reports suggest the US and certain European nations sabotaged peace talks between Ukraine and Russia. Are those nations supporting the genocide of Ukrainian civilians?

The only nukes Germany has are those that America charitably allows Germany to borrow. If Germany grew up like UK and France and bought/made their own toys, then maybe Germany would find itself to have more autonomy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

(just kidding :p)

Also, petro states like Norway caused global warming and ultimately history will find them culpable for mass death.

They were like that because of cleaning up after some skirmish. To be identified, and buried.

These pictures were used to present it like that was common. Which wasn't the case.

The military intervention created the circumstances which made that common.

Also, given the climate now, if there was even a shred of evidence or any hint that Putin did this, US media and intelligence officials would be blaring that from every rooftop and every talking head would be "Russia this", and "Russia that". I think the relative silence speaks very clearly.