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Presumably the form for applying for benefits has a reasonably high bar for identifying the fact that you are in fact legally present in the country? Or how else do you imagine people living at "taxpayer's expense"? Just begging on the streets?
If we wanted we could stop illegal immigration extremely fast – as you say we are an island so it's relatively easy to stop people arriving. We don't need drones. At the moment after the French have given life-jackets to the illegal migrants and their boats have set off into the British channel, the people smugglers will call the British coast guard and ask them to go pick up the migrants they're smuggling into the country. The UK coast guard then picks them up and escorts them safely to shore. From here the police will be waiting, not to arrest them, but to take them to their hotel and give them a hot meal. Shortly after this charities in the UK will give them phones (typically iPhones), clothes and bikes to get around. The government will also give them some spending money to spend in our towns and cities.
We obviously don't have to do any of this and ID cards wouldn't stop any of this. We choose to do this and this is why they come.
However between the various reports of migrant hotel stabbings, thefts, sexual assaults, and rapes of children, it's been discovered that some migrants have been working in the UK – primarily in the gig economy. All of the things I've said to this point are not deemed issues and the government has no intention in changing them, but the fact that a small percentage of the migrants coming here are working has caught the eye of our politicians who have stated very strongly that they would prefer the migrants coming here don't work. The digital ID cards will hypothetically help with this "problem"
It's hard to explain to people outside the UK how strange this place is. Most countries want a controlled immigration system and treat border security as a national security priority, and when they do allow immigrants into the country they almost always want them to work and pay their own way. The UK basically does the inverse of this. The explanation varies between some combination of letting hundreds of thousands of Afghans into the country is the right thing to do, to it's the law so there's nothing we can do about it.
Legal note:
This is not an anti-migration post. I am pro-migration.
The bigger issue is people not contributing to the economy. Let’s not peg laziness as an immigration problem because British people are equally lazy.
> The other complaint I often see is immigrants' failure to assimilate to British norms, language, and culture.
If we forced people to conform to British norms then we wouldn’t enjoy the variety of takeaways that Brits have enjoyed for decades. Which is ironic because a kebab is now considered a British norm for post drinking meals.
Plus it’s not as if British people are particularly good at integrating with other cultures. Most Brits can’t even speak a second language and don’t even attempt to learn the customs and language of any other countries they visit.
> People who complain about these things seem to often run into the UK's limitations on freedom of speech.
I think the opposite is the problem. People have been far too vocal about the mythical problems that immigrants bring and anyone who attempts to present actual facts gets shot down as “woke” or “leftard” etc.
We need to stop blaming other people for our own problems.
I do get your point, as an Indian who migrated to Canada, it’s one of my pet peeves where some of my relatives live in their enclave only, i.e. surround themselves with like minded Indians, but this is pretty ironic when it is coming from Brits.
Why shouldn't France give life jackets and boats to people who want to leave France?
Assuming statista is a legit data source.
British politician could try to strike a deal with the French to stop them helping individual who try to enter the UK illegally, but obviously it would only make sense for them to do that if the British were also trying to stop people entering the country illegally. Like you say, we can't expect the French to defend UK borders.
In regards to leaving the EU this wouldn't change the situation meaningfully, it would just allow for more cooperation in how illegal migrants are distributed across Europe. Like the UK, EU countries are also legally not allowed to deport Afghans. It's not as if the EU doesn't face similar problems.
There's nothing wrong with a culture adapting over time without losing their identity, like your example of Brits deciding to add the kebab. But a small country can't preserve their identity when they are overloaded by so many immigrants coming in at once who FORCE their ways on their new home. Think of it as Push vs Pull, there's a difference.
Every country having a unique culture makes the world more interesting. Imagine how boring it would be if you saved up for a trip to Japan/Kenya/Chile/etc, only to find that almost everyone there was a white English-speaking American living the exact same lifestyle you have at home? Leftists would in that case be empathetic toward the remaining indigenous minority who feel their historic way of life was killed off against their will. Why should it be any different if you swap the country and nationalities in this example to what is happening in the UK?
I am an immigrant myself, and a fairly liberal one at that. But I made the effort to come to my new home legally and assimilate to the best of my ability. I'm not sure why I should hold others to a lower standard.
> Also likely that the immigrants’ culture would differ from that of their native country.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/jun/16/donald-tru...
I hope you're right and we're getting that 1% of moderate Afghans who just believe that homosexuality is wrong, not that it should be punishable by death.
Could you do me a favour and ask yourself if you would take your wife and children on holiday to Afghanistan? Is the answer yes or no? If it's no, please explain why I should therefore be okay with my government allow undocumented Afghan men live in the hotel by my family? At a minimum should we not be vetting these people?
No, this is not supported by any real evidence.
They could create a polite British form of ICE
I can think of few things the UK should do less than ape American attitudes to immigration currently.
No. I’m arguing that people who say “people change their personalities to suit mine” are hypocrites.
> But a small country can't preserve their identity when they are overloaded by so many immigrants coming in at once who FORCE their ways on their new home. Think of it as Push vs Pull, there's a difference.
Citation required — for literally every part of that sentence.
> Every country having a unique culture makes the world more interesting.
Exactly my point as well.
> Leftists would in that case be empathetic toward the remaining indigenous minority who feel their historic way of life was killed off against their will. Why should it be any different if you swap the country and nationalities in this example to what is happening in the UK?
If you think a fraction of a percentage of people coming to the UK is suddenly going to change the identity of the entire country then you need to get out and explore more of the UK yourself.
> I am an immigrant myself, and a fairly liberal one at that. But I made the effort to come to my new home legally and assimilate to the best of my ability. I'm not sure why I should hold others to a lower standard.
The problem isn’t the suggestion. The problem is the entitlement.
I do think it’s courteous for people to make an effort to integrate. But it should also be their decision, not ours.
And that’s the crux of the problem.
Most of the time, the complains about immigration are unfounded scapegoating of people who are different. It’s got fuck all to do with facts. It’s just people who the government have failed, or people who feel entitled, being fearful of other people who are different. It’s literally just an unchecked primal instinct. And we need to grow past that as a species.
You don't really need that - you can stand on the beach and watch.
The issue is more with the laws - we have human rights laws where you can claim asylum and a very slow and expensive legal system where almost no one actually gets send back. What the government should do is change the laws to something that agrees more with common sense.
If I choose not to integrate, and to instead practice particularly illiberal approaches to women, for example, is that still my decision? If my culture uses rape and acid to control women, may I continue?
I'm picking on a particularly onerous difference between Western and MENA peoples that's been a flashpoint in the UK, from what I can see.
If immigration was purely unfounded scapegoating, and we all could simply talk about our heritage and share new foods in these borderless economic zones that used to be countries, why would there be articles like these popping up:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/aug/05/disputed-or-...
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvnnj301l3o
Another debate probably reduced to a single bit of information between participants. Class based analyses on immigration are probably more telling, but there doesn't seem to be much available.
Assimilating doesn't mean changing one's personality. I'm still the same person I was before I came to the USA, but I respect that some things are customary and others are considered offensive. I know I'm expected to tip for services that in other countries would be considered insulting. Yet if enough immigrants refused to tip, it would become a stereotype that would create negative sentiment towards said immigrants because workers rely on that income.
> If you think a fraction of a percentage of people coming to the UK is suddenly going to change the identity of the entire country then you need to get out and explore more of the UK yourself.
I roadtripped across the UK earlier this year actually, spending time in 2 major cities and 4 small towns. The demographic shift over the last decade is immediately noticeable. It is multiple orders of magnitude more than you're making it out to be.
> I do think it’s courteous for people to make an effort to integrate. But it should also be their decision, not ours.
That's a matter of opinion, and perhaps not up to either you or me to decide whether it is right, but up to the % of citizens who will vote against immigration at the next election. Unchecked immigration is the top reason that western populations are shifting rightward. And this trend has evidently scared the Labour Party enough that they're finally preteneding to do something about it.
But let's say it is up to an immigrant to decide whether to integrate. What if their values are incompatible with the country's? If you move to the UK and take great offense over how people dress or their type of humor or their freedom of religion or their pub culture or whatever, why did you even move there? And if you then expect this entire sovereign nation (who is already doing you a favor by allowing you in) to change their ways to accommodate your beliefs, that is a hell of a lot more entitled than the other way around (the country expecting an individual to integrate as part of the terms of being let in).
There is also a recent video of a girl wielding an ax and knife to protect her and her sister in Scotland [3]. She has been charged with brandishing weapons. Interestingly, the BBC has issued an article [4] claiming that it was a "Bulgarian couple" that the girls approached, and to not "spread misinformation." I am a researcher of Slavic languages, so I can tell you from watching the video in [3] that the accents featured in this video are not Bulgarian. I am not willing to stake a claim in what they actually are (someone else is welcome to comment).
Actually, I'm quite alarmed that the BBC is claiming this, as I generally consider the BBC reputable.
1 – https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdd2rld9mj2o
2 – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit...
You’re now conflating culture with crime.
And are you honestly suggesting that other cultures have literally nothing to offer asides violent sexual offences?!
Ridiculous.
> If immigration was purely unfounded scapegoating, and we all could simply talk about our heritage and share new foods in these borderless economic zones that used to be countries, why would there be articles like these popping up
The first article is debunking headline claims about immigration. Ostensibly supporting my claims.
The second article is just a commentary of the government’s plans to deport.
Neither of them defend your position.
There never has been unchecked immigration despite what various hard-right publications might say.
> to change their ways to accommodate your beliefs
Literally no one is advocating that the UK should change its culture to suit any beliefs of immigrants.
Being inclusive doesn’t mean we have to change our own culture. Unless, that is, you consider xenophobia a “cultural” problem. And if you do, then I don’t think changing people’s attitudes there is an unfair ask.
The real reason society is shifting rightwards isn’t directly due to immigration. That’s actually a symptom of the shift, not the cause.
The real reason is poverty and greed. The wealth gap is grown, the rich have gotten more greedy and the working class have gotten poorer. So people want change. The right promises change by scapegoating people who are different. And then the the poor vote for that change, without realising that they’re just voting for the institution that screwed them over to begin with. As evidenced by the fact that the wealthy largely also vote for the right.
You see this cycle over and over again in history throughout the world. Unfortunately it’s usually followed by war.
> Isn't a larger issue the number of immigrants who are NOT contributing to the economy, living at taxpayers' expense
No one has yet mentioned illegal immigrants except you.
In any case it doesn't matter, since GP was specifically replying to:
> In my experience, immigrants have low paying jobs and regularly use cash to avoid paying taxes. Most have no sense whatsoever of cohesion with the country they live in and instead make groups of similar culture that don't really try to fit in.
They were simply giving their own opposite experience on the subject of immigrant wages and taxation, which is equally as valid.
If this thread was actually about illegal immigrants, both comments would be equally off topic. I find it interesting which one you decided to respond to.
Culturally based attitudes to homosexuality have little if anything to do with a people‘s government. As far as I can find polls for it, disagreement and hate towards queer people is incredibly prevalent among their people.