I will say, though, disposable vapes with microcontrollers inside (and even full games and screens from recent reporting) are an egregious source of e-waste. Many layers of stupid are present here.
But the one in the FTA comes with a full fat microcontroller and USB-C connector! I'm not clear if these connectors are accessible outside or if you need to break open the packaging before being able to get to it.
Like you said: "Many layers of stupid are present here"
All that hardware must surely be worth more than half the value of the actual product!
This feels like a whole new category of straw man.
obsessively woke people
https://baheyeldin.com/literature/arabic-and-islamic-themes-...
its true that the concept of a _holy war_ isnt unique to the muslim faith though. I never claimed that either however.
It's slightly surprising to me how few people seem to be aware of that in HN. Was expecting the general readership here to be a little less obsessively righteous and uninformed on a topic like this, but ymmv I guess
You mean like add the cost of a MRI to the price of a pack of cigarettes?
whether it can be repurposed is worth little in being wasteful if >99% go to the landfill.
> I think we'd see that (a) might end up being less wasteful.
Monetarily? sure. Environmentally? unlikely
Islam is in fact the largest religion (by worshippers) in the world today, so Frank Herbert's assumption that a culture derived from it would be dominant in a future society is just extrapolation.
Fyi,
> Dune is a 1965 epic science fiction novel by American author Frank Herber
The distinction you're making wrt Jihad is also super modern and did not apply back then
The point is that, most likely, the controller existed before this vape. Buying an off the shelf part can be cheaper than trying to bring up some custom part, both in cost and possibly in overall resources.
One reason is that the number of Christians in Sub-Saharan Africa is growing. But extrapolating the trends, yes Islam will probably become the largest religion in the coming decades.
Or at least maybe - looking at birth rates, it seems as second generation muslim immigrants to Western countries have even lower birth rates than the native population. That might happen also in regions say like Pakistan and Indonesia and other fast growing regions, depending on economical or other changes.
It's the exact opposite. Tobacco is so heavily regulated and taxed that these become profitable. If cigarettes were 3-4$ a pack (which they would be without sin taxes and regulatory overhead), the vape market would come down as well and there's no way these could be profitable. As it is, they retail around $20 and contain the same nicotine as multiple $10 packs of cigarettes.
> Dick writes of the IoT being a source of vast-artificial-living-systems functioning on collective compute.
In other words, it's a huge challenge, but 6502 is closer, in complexity, to the pen than to the, say, AMD Ryzen.
But the primary idea behind Collapse OS isn't to run from 6502 built from the ground up (although it partly is), but to run from frankenstein cobbled up machines made from scavenged parts.
If you go look at modern smoke detectors, many-to-most, now have a non-replaceable battery for exactly that reason.
TL;DR: while Dune has many references to various concepts coming from Islamic societies throughout, the Fremen are the obvious stand-in for Arabs specifically, and so get the most attention. And, in the context of the first book at least, Fremen are the "good guys" in many ways - if you reframe it in modern terms, they are the natives fighting against a colonial empire that subjugates them in order to extract a valuable resource from their lands, and then on top of that there's also the more subtle ecological angle.
With a 6502 or other such CPU, the machines you scavenge them from are much more repairable and adaptable. You can use those components like lego blocks. It breaks? either repair it or strip the working parts to use in another frankenstein computer.
I did the same thing, and the first four results were Kidde and First Alert Smoke Alarms with non-replaceable 10-year lifespan batteries.
It is likely because you recently purchased one, and Amazon has targeted your results based on your purchase history.
If you have some old Samsung Galaxy Gio from 2011, it'll provide far more value by recycling it back to raw materials than it would if you'd somehow try to keep it usable in 2025.
The problem here is planned obsolescence in a product's design. That is what needs to be made illegal.
I'm constantly struck at how bread (a pastry, say) in a plastic tray, wrapped in plastic, is so crazy to me. The effort and technology that went, and goes, into oil extraction and such - only to throw the packaging away immediately that I get home ... it's just so unsustainable.
I wonder when in the West we'll start mining rubbish dumps ('refuse sites' where household waste is buried)? Maybe we already have? I know in developing countries people spend their days manually picking over such places.
Plus, many smoke alarms these days use a photoelectric sensor which don't wear out but are prone to false alarms from dust, etc. Smoke alarms SHOULD be cleaned at least once a year, by blasting them with compressed air. Dust buildup is a very common reason that smoke alarms stop working as well after any number of years. They require regular cleaning, just like everything else in the house.
Non-replaceable battery smoke alarms are popular because they are much more convenient to own. And you should NOT throw them away, the batteries in these contain lithium and must be recycled.
And we're all gonna die, why would we have laws at all?
When we say "disposable vape", it's not to say "it will eventually stop working". It's more to say "you use it, you throw it away".
> E-waste recycling is a profitable
I don't doubt it's profitable, but it's most certainly not a good thing for the planet. Recycling is generally not a solution to waste.
> The problem here is planned obsolescence in a product's design. That is what needs to be made illegal.
Seriously? We're talking about DISPOSABLE VAPES. They are built to last as short a time as possible. At this point I am not sure if you think you disagree with me, are just nitpicking for the fun of it, or something else?
When we talk about "disposable vapes", we don't talk about something that lasts 10 years, do we?
Or do you think that the very word "disposable" should not exist, because after all, nothing will last longer than the sun?
Laws are not here to make money, they are here to decide what kind of society we want. If electronics is too cheap and it creates wastes, I'm of the opinion that we should make it illegal, period.
I'm still surprised to see the fancier LCDs used which range from 2x4cm - slim 1.5x3cm (Digiflower, Raz is super popular.) Most LCD vapes which range from $20-25 are starting to fall by the wayside for $13-15 vapes with simple SMD LED displays with color overlays, (Kadobar, Geek Bar, Cookies, North) easy to make 7-segments for battery/juice status. Some are elaborate with wraparound displays that I've mistaken for flexible OLED and are deceptively cheap.
The only environment-friendly solution is to forbid this product to exist in the first place.
Never, because we have virtually unlimited space for landfills, and landfill tech has quietly been improving over the last few centuries, to the point that landfills are cheap, non-polluting, and entirely carbon neutral. Countries with less land mass (Europe et al) prefer incineration (mainly to save space, despite it being significantly worse for the environment and much more expensive (although with the newer energy reclamation efforts this is getting better)).
IMO it's not worth worrying about landfills too much. Household waste makes up about 3% of total landfill waste (when you add commercial/industrial/agricultural) in North America. You and your bun wrapper are truly irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
The landlord special on older construction (maybe >10 years old, can't remember when the hardwire code went into effect) will usually be the 9v. Because they don't care about you having to get on a ladder to change the battery every year. They get to save $5-10 per smoke detector. Practically any homeowner is going to choose the 10 year option as the batteries don't have to be swapped.
- humans are expensive.
- If you want a custom part, you will need specialized equipment to build that part.
- If you want a custom part, you will maybe need to transport that part all around the world, while the off-the-shelf components might already be available close to your assembly plant.
5% is 50mg/1ml. A cigarette pack has about 25mg. A geek bar has 16ml of juice = 800mg of nicotine = 32 packs of cigarettes.
https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/disposable-vape-ban-loo...
I believe that we as a society don't want e-waste (at least I don't). And when the society does not want something profitable to be done, it sets regulations.
If it wasn't illegal to steal your neighbour's car and sell it, then it would be profitable. But we as a society don't want it to happen.
The actual problem here is how the product is intentionally designed to only be used once, when that's absolutely unnecessary. We both agree on that. That falls within the issue of planned obsolescence, and that's what regulation needs to target.
We want people to vape rather than smoke tobacco, obviously, it's not a zero-sum issue.
Though I don't believe that when someone talks about a "disposable" product, they mean that "this is a product that you will dispose of before you die". Usually "disposable" means that it's meant to have a short lifetime.
A laptop or a smartphone are not "disposable" in that sense, even though we don't keep them for our lifetime.
But a disposable vape is very clearly on the side of "should not exist, period".
I think you are misinterpreting the issue. I'll explain why.
There are attention-seekers which were given access to platforms with unprecedented reach. Some of these types tap into outrage culture as their engagement mechanism. This creates a vicious cycle of outrage which feeds on outputting outrageous claims and taking the resulting outrage as input to further double down on outputting outrageous claims. You then end up with opposing outrage camps of whatever subject you can think of which exist to generate a larger volume of outrage than the opposing camp.
The problem is that the terminally-online types confuse this sort of discourse with reality, and the outrageous claims as representative of what happens in real life. That's how you end up with people outraged with outrageous claims that are so outrageous to the point they are unthinkable.
Lots of people especially those generally "up north" undermine risks and therefore costs of food poisoning, but it's real. Haven't those people seen things growing molds?
Resource extraction eventually fills all niches, for better or for worse.
We rewarded the government that brought this plan in by replacing them with Doug Ford, the brother of the infamous late Toronto mayor Rob Ford who was a literal crack-smoking drunk.
Sure, the grand majority is going to be food waste, but if you threw it all into an incinerator and melted down the ashes there is probably a decent blend of valuable material mixed in with the waste.
From wikipedia:
> Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property, and equality before the law.[1][2] Liberals espouse various and sometimes conflicting views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion.[3] Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history
From a quick glance, it looks like BogdanTheGeek's Forth is written in C, which means that it's not self-hosted. If all you have is that disposable vape with this Forth in it, you lack the tools to deploy it on another machine or to improve it in place.
One could also port Collapse OS to ARM. I guess it wouldn't be a very big effort.
There are many possible ways to slice the economical cake.
I really hope you are starting to understand the difficulty in regulating products like this. A lot of people don’t want to do the right thing.
it's because politicians bend to pressure from lobbyists and outcry, such that the very idea that a resuable vape means that children can vape pina colada flavored liquids.
There was a federal push during Trump v1 to only allow iqos devices in any stores. The two vape brands (maybe 3) allowed in general in my state are manufactured by... if you guessed RJR and PMI, you are correct. The big tobacco farmers and cig manufacturers.
Reusable vapes with custom or pre-mixed flavors were attacked hard. I still have a couple liters of 100mg/ml nicotine in my freezer, for making custom flavors at home. I don't even know if you can still order nicotine in that ratio anymore in the US.
1) They don't sell for $3-4 a pack, yet your post seems to imply that the system has failed for cigarettes.
2) For externalities beyond the input cost of a product, the default [natural] condition is for those costs not to be included - one needn't enforce anything. Rather, it requires that someone with power put their thumb on the scale to enforce the inclusion of those costs during a sale[1].
I am very strongly pro-vape more generally but disposable ones should absolutely be illegal. They only serve to a) make them more attractive to casual users (instead of people switching from tobacco) and b) generate waste. Zero benefit to society.
There was a time when people could argue "the upfront cost of a proper vape is a problem that could keep people from switching from cigarettes". That's no longer true, there are incredibly cheap and compact refillable vapes now. (Well, there kinda always were, but they used to be crap. No longer).
The solution here isn't reuse it's just to stop production of them completely.
And they all just go into a landfill without ever being recharged once. It really should be criminal.
They were also hindered by the public's perception of their performance in the matters of Ornge and Hydro One.
It seems strange to me to frame the results of that election as being a reward for re-internalizing the waste management costs of consumer products.
Some places do, some don't.
I go through those rechargeable ones in a week. That's pretty common I think for how addictive they are. https://www.reddit.com/r/Vaping/comments/1i9mva3/how_long_do...
Before the disposables were a thing most juices were either 0.3% or 0.6%
This is 100% big tobacco trying to get people hooked
That's where the vapes started, and they still sell them.
I have a battery holder that's really just some control circuitry and a spot to shove an 18650. On that goes the tank which holds liquid and is refillable. Inside of that goes the "coil" which is the wick and heating element.
Daily I add a bit more fluid. Every 2-4 weeks I replace the coil. Every 1-2 years I replace the battery holder and tank. The 18650s I swap between to power it are 6-8 years old and still going.
(I'd replace the battery holder and tank less frequently, but I just can't find any that will last much longer than that banging around in my pocket and suffering the occasional drop or fall. All-in-all though, I've minimized the waste about as much as I reasonably can without quitting entirely.)
Somewhere in between and closer to what people are buying as "disposable" you can get refillable pods like my wife has. The "base" has a built-in battery and the circuitry. The tank and coil are a single unit. You add fluid and keep refilling until the wick/coil are gummed up, then toss the entire tank and coil... but keep the same battery/electronics.
Really, it's almost the exact same thing as these disposable units just with _very minimal_ changes to make them reusable.
Which is why I think these disposable units are extra heinous. There's just no reason for them to exist at all.
[woke @ wikipedia]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke
A hammer, a gentle swing, and some clippers are pretty much all you need to get the batteries out of these disposable vapes.
[1] see the overlap between the economic policies of Reagan and Bill Clinton
No. Poorly separated wastes in landfill cause non-trivial methane emissions and other VOCs [0]. While leachate _may_ be captured, most of the time methane is definitely not.
[0] - https://www.epa.gov/lmop/basic-information-about-landfill-ga...
I'm about to blow your mind. It was and is one of the most common food poisoning types, especially B. Cereus and everyone's favorite religion-creator, C. purpurea / ergot.
Gross image warning (not sure why it's the first thing on the page but...)
Technically the disposables need FDA approval I think, many just don't have it. Manufacturers, importers, and retailers just don't care. There's a buck to be made and the spice must flow.
> If cigarettes were 3-4$ a pack (which they would be without sin taxes and regulatory overhead),
Trying to show that 3-4$ a pack is not a more "natural" price for cigarettes than the current one, that it is a matter of perspective, and that if one wanted to construct such a natural price all externalities would have to be taken into account.
It seems like voters will reject any attempt to fight climate change if there is cost or inconvenience involved.
Bioplastics are increasingly popular, research is making it better and easier to produce, etc.
I don’t fret over a plastic wrap. For one, if it’s bread in a supermarket, I want it wrapped, I don’t want someone’s sneeze on it.
Plastic for fruits and veggies that you rinse, that’s absurd.
I completely agree with you that we should, in general, phase out plastic as much as we can, but we have to be realistic about the benefits and drawbacks. I don't think it's anything that couldn't be replaced with oiled paper, but plastic is used for some good and bad reasons.