Vitamin C Boosts Epidermal Growth via DNA Demethylation

In cell cultures. So nothing about topical, or digestive pathways. Just, expose cells to vitamin c rich medium.

How would topical application work, and what kind of homeostasis effect, from ingestion.

If you are low on vitamin c in your diet, sure. If not, you may not get much benefit from having more.

Topical vitamin C (L-ascorbic acid) at concentrations of 10-20% with pH <3.5 can penetrate the stratum corneum, though stability and formulation significantly impact bioavailability.

Everybody is low on C in diet. It's thermolabile, and there is glucose competition for GLUT transporters.

IMO, everybody should take at least 2g daily in a couple of doses, particularly smokers.

Maybe plasters with ascorbin acid in it? That would be the first thing that comes to mind. Or maybe plaster spray where it's mixed with the typical protein foam?

This is not true. 2g is the max recommended dose.

Most people can get enough vitamin C each day from food or drink. 3/4 cup of orange juice daily is enough. https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-h...

Taking vitamin C orally decreases muscle mitochondrial biogenesis and harms the health benefits of training, like increased insulin resistance. (well established from multiple studies, easy to google).

There was huge antioxidant craze in late 90's and 00's when taking antioxidant supplements like C was considered the right thing to do. Now we know that just taking more antioxidants does not directly help with oxidization tress, because it messes up metabolism and can even increase it.

For those who don't want to Google:

• https://physoc.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1113/jphy...

• https://www.pnas.org/content/106/21/8665

Cherry picking 2 studies out of zillions and calling it science? Good job

Yeah, you go with orange juice, you seem to know this topic :)

Please do not spread misinformation here. It can be misleading at best, dangerous at worst.

You can just freshly mix cheap vitamin C powder and water to the desired concentration, adjust pH to be less irritating. The solution can last for a few days, if cooled and protected from light. For it to be effective (according to studies), it needs to be applied daily/frequently. However, DIY is so cheap, you can use it all over your body. Wash/wipe off excess (see below).

The problem is commercialization. Vitamin C is very, very reactive, so formulating it for shelf storage and production is challenging. I think you either have to add expensive/exotic antioxidant systems, or rely on ascorbate derivatives which may be less/not effective.

Fair warning: Vitamin C degrades to dehydroascorbic acid: After some delay, vitamin C solution may stain skin and everything in contact yellow. DHA may also further break down into erythrulose, a self-tanning agent browning the skin semi-permanently (likely not very healthy). Vitamin C may also react with other things (eg. skin care products) in unpredictable ways and can actually form radicals under some conditions. Eg. It can react with benzoic acid to form benzene. On the modern skin, with UV exposure, a primordial soup of "actives", complex hydrocarbons and all natural metal catalysts, vitamin C may facilitate genesis…

The science is promising, but the chemistry of vitamin C is hard to control, or even reason about.

> well established from multiple studies, easy to google

That's not all of them. You can find systematic reviews and meta-analyses walking trough them all. Easy to google. 50-100 mg per day is OK and possible has some benefits, if you go to more than 2 grams like you suggested for health person, there is no evidence of benefits, only harms.

> The problem is commercialization. Vitamin C is very, very reactive.

… hence it oxidises easily.

There has recently been a novel development, ethyl ascorbic acid, that is much more stable due to being more inert. It resists the oxidation for a much longer time compared to ascorbyl glucoside and L-ascorbic acid, and it has been successfully commercialised in some skincare products. The products using it command a premium, though.

I now enough that your > 2g is bogs claim.

AFAIK, the derivatives are less researched, so hard to argue about. Often, the concentration isn’t disclosed, too.

I would just go DIY, since commercial products are either very, very expensive, or ineffective. Once you got your measurements down, mixing it freshly takes no time. And you can afford to use it all over the body, not just the face. This way you know, it’s not oxidized, it’s exactly what’s used in some better studies, it is effective. Even DIYing a stabilized formulation with ferulic acid is possible and still much cheaper.

Personally, I have trust issues with vitamin C chemistry tho :D

Yeah, me and Pauling, double time Nobel winner and the only one in history :)

There are literary thousands of papers on C every year, basically all are positive.

Animals make it in grams, all of them on this planet. Yet you claim 50mg is only OK.

Get serious.

Please don't spread fear here, vitamin C is non-toxic and can only help people, and this place represents a hacking oriented culture.

Find me a case report about the danger of vitamin C (not a theoretical one) and we can talk. Otherwise, you are free to behave and believe in whatever you want.

Are you serious? Prolonged high supplementation doses is actually very dangerous. Aside from the warnings about this in various places, I’ve also had a family member who did permanent kidney damage by prolonged usage of supplementation.

I haven't found any evidence that ethyl ascorbic acid is more stable in aqueous solution than ascorbyl glucoside

Yes, I am serious, and I practice that stance more then 2 decades, so its not just talk.

> Prolonged high supplementation doses is actually very dangerous.

Reference please.

Here is one: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15563650.2019.16...

It shows no deaths from vitamins. This is from 2018, but its like that every year. While it doesn't account for damage as its highly uncertain to pinpoint exactly what happened in any human, at least you know there are no deaths, while at the same time, there are deaths for any drug (aspirin for example).

> I’ve also had a family member who did permanent kidney damage by prolonged usage of supplementation.

You mean, you or your doctors suppose it was about supplementation? And what supplementation? You can damage yourself or die with anything, water included, or you come with defective organ from the day 0. All that is not relevant for others.

Bashing on supplements is in any case irresponsible and you spread fear because you are not informed, its similar to anti-vacc movement - it never happens that entire technology domain is invalid - particular instance of drug/supplement/vaccine/herb can be.

If you are asserting that Linus Pauling was the only two-time winner of the Nobel Prize, my doubt in the accuracy of your conclusions has only increased, given that Marie Curie, John Bardeen, and Frederick Sanger have all won two Nobel Prizes.

https://phys.org/news/2022-10-scientists-won-nobel-prizes.ht...

> On the modern skin

?

In skincare, propylene glycol is used as the solvent for ethyl ascorbic acid, not water.

the modern skin, you know, uncovered from the outside world. as opposed to the victorian skin which wise hidden away from dangerous UV light behind many layers of undergarments, hoop dresses, 5 piece suits, monocles, and so on

> It shows no deaths from vitamins

The risk to kidneys is well documented. You seem to be concentrating on whether a person dies or not, but the risk to quality of life is not to be dismissed either. There are innumerable warnings and studies about this over the years.

https://doi.org/10.1001/jamainternmed.2013.2296

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002231662...

(these are just for starters -- it's a huge area of research with many results that encourage caution)

There have also been studies shared by others here in this thread with you that you are casually dismissing as "cherry picking". It's irresponsible.

> IMO, everybody should take at least 2g daily in a couple of doses

I strongly caution against this kind of blanket recommendation. For most people, taking such a high dose without medical guidance is unwise. Unless a healthcare professional has specifically advised it, this level of supplementation goes well beyond established guidelines.

There is substantial research highlighting potential risks, including kidney damage, associated with high-dose vitamin C intake (as referenced elsewhere in this thread).

Anyone considering this should thoroughly research the risks and consult a qualified medical professional before proceeding.

There are a large number of studies on this topic, in part because vitamin C supplements are so widely used and easily accessible. Several people have already shared relevant research in this thread.

Before promoting high-dose supplementation as universally safe or beneficial, I strongly recommend doing more in-depth research. It’s important to understand the potential risks especially since this kind of advice, if followed without medical oversight, can have serious health consequences.

Phrases like "get serious" don’t contribute meaningfully to the discussion. This is a serious topic and deserves a well-informed, balanced perspective.

Recommending that people take over 2 grams of vitamin C daily -- without context or medical guidance —- is irresponsible. I'm sorry, but offering such advice in a public forum without acknowledging potential risks or the need for individual consideration can be genuinely harmful.

I'm starting to think the person you are responding to is trolling everyone here, unfortunately.

Anyone who can afford the equipment to make fresh vitamin c serum could easily afford several years supply of high end commercial products that have been tested to confirm their ingredients and effects.

Unshared.

That’s ridiculous.

You need a mg scale and pH strips as equipment (~ 20€, once); tap water, pure vitamin C and sodium bicarbonate as ingredients (~ 6€, lasts for many, many preparations). Aluminium foil to make any glas container light-tight.

The chemicals are food grade from your next supermarket or drug store. The "recipe" is used in some studies.

Pauling himself wold be the first to suggest that you don't take over 2g orally. He took vitamin C as injections to treat his Bright's disease.

Today he would reject orthomolecular medicine, because he was an intelligent man and believed evidence.

Pauling took 18g every day, for decades. It's in his book. There is little doubt Pauling would do the same today. He would reject LPI though (as apart from his name, they don't follow his footsteps), but not orthomolecular.

i've never taken organic chemistry, so a noob question:

>adjust pH to be less irritating

if vitamin C is ascorbic acid, doesn't "adjusting its pH" make it be no longer ascorbic acid, perhaps turning it into ascorbic salt?