Leaked data reveals Israeli govt campaign to remove pro-Palestine posts on Meta

I think my country (USA) would be healthier if a common sense viewpoint was selected and held.

Conflicts are always terrible, and the Eurasia / Africa region countries are particularly brutal.

Every citizen of every country has a human right (in a civilized civilization / society) to live a life that does not involve violence. A life where they are not worried about RPGs, bombings, (etc,) or military invasions.

Some sources of conflict involve places which various (different) religions hold as sacred / holy. Those sites should become UN world heritage locations and be managed by the UN in ways that only allow non-military peaceful access for any who want to visit.

With respect to Gaza my personal opinion remains unchanged. Both an innocent civilian people who suffer, and a terrorist government, remain in that region. The civilians should be evacuated. The terrorists who remain after (or whom are caught and found guilty in a trial) should be purged. The country should then be cleaned up, rebuilt, and returned to the innocent people along with a training-wheels UN supported government that brings stability, peace, and prevents a resurgence of hate and terrorism. In a few generations the country can grow more stable and graduate from the guided government structure.

That would be not just a two state solution, but a two states and global peace sites solution.

I just don't see a way that a two-state solution works. A three-state solution might be feasible (Gaza and West Bank governed separately), but then you have to deal with internal Israeli politics, and I really don't know enough about them to make even an educated guess about how hard it would be to get that through (I would imagine very, but like I said, I know very little about their politics).

this is grossly misunderstanding the situation in Gaza, a two state solution was never acceptable to Israel, Hamas as it exists today is a result of Netanyahu policy. Israel created the monster to justify their genocide.

"The civilians should be evacuated." They don't want to leave and Israel uses these "evacuations" to make sure Palestinians never return, as they did in 1948, 1967, etc[1][2]. This is whitewashing genocide and is an extremely violent view, packaged in reasonable sounding words. Israel has a long documented history of using terrorism to build its state. If you truly oppose terrorism I recommend starting with the books I've sourced.

[1] The ethnic cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappé

[2] The Hundred Years' War on Palestine: A History of Settler Colonialism and Resistance, 1917–2017 by Rashid Kahlidi

That might be the case, but that man cannot live forever. I am thinking long term, but am also just a civilian in the US. If there is good reason to have another policy I would like the experts to articulate that logic to us.

It should be the UN, and with the express intent outlined in my post above. To return them back to their country once the criminals have been removed.

That seems wasteful and excessive. Could you elaborate on the upsides of this proposal? They are not obvious from my perspective.

A two state solution is never possible when one state keeps expanding with impunity, and every time the second state resists it is called a terrorist state. My country resisted colonization in the mid 20th century and the resistance efforts were called terrorism by everyone, nobody calls them terrorists now.

> a two state solution was never acceptable to Israel

Wrong, they accepted the 1947 partition plan and agreed to the Oslo accords

What country are you from? It is entirely possible they are still terrorists you just decided as society to ignore it.

The ICC has never issued any arrest warrants for our elected/appointed government officials if that's what you are asking.

Not sure if I would call it an upside but I guess if you destroy everything worth fighting for then maybe people stop fighting? If you then execute anyone still willing to persist I guess you can claim victory. This is how you win the internet, just come up with one of the most extreme and cynical responses possible.

Except Hamas took over Gaza in 2006/7 more or less in it's current form, before Netanyahu came back into power at 2009.

Hamas has always been an extreme organization, they executed a bunch of Fatah members by throwing them off buildings when they took over gaza, not exactly a fun loving bunch.

Sure Netanyahu didn't exactly help to see the least, but saying he is somehow solely responsible for Hamas is pretty biased.

The Oslo accords were intended - in the words of Rabin - to give the Palestinians 'less than a state', and arguably the division of the West Bank into Areas A, B and C have allowed for the expansion of settlements in the latter.

Whether the 1947 partition was accepted as a final state depends on who you ask, it's fairly clear that prominent figures viewed it as a stop along the way to a more comprehensive settlement. Take Ben Gurion ("After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine.") or Chaim Weizmann ("partition might be only a temporary arrangement for the next twenty to twenty-five years"). Menachem Begin's Herut continued to use the slogan 'Both banks of the Jordan River", and this language is reflected in Likud's founding charter.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar hell. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

It's best we stop here, this conversation will go nowhere.

ICC don't have retroactive jurisdiction from quick google so your point still doesn't make sense.

One of the most difficult things you can do in a discussion like this.

But also, one of the most important.

> Israel basically said "we are going to war and we are not going to worry about who is and isn't a soldier anymore, they all dress the same"

When did Israel worry about this, when it comes to Palestinian civilians? This accusation from Israel supporters makes no sense because Israel has never cared about killing Palestinian civilians.

> executed a bunch of Fatah members by throwing them off buildings when they took over gaza

Was this before or after Fatah lost an election and then refused to step down, instead staging a violent coup?

Are you actually trying to defend the execution of prisoners?

And that's putting aside whether what you said is right or wrong (which I'm sure you'll get very different answers from each side)

The criminals would all line up with the civilians if it came to that, and they'd also still raise all their children to become the next generation of terrorists.

>> Hamas has always been an extreme organization, they executed a bunch of Fatah members by throwing them off buildings when they took over Gaza, not exactly a fun loving bunch.

Agreed. And Israel have annihilated over 50,000 Gazans. Not exactly a fun loving bunch.

And I assume after this evacuation, purging, and installment of a new government Israel will magically change its ways? You need to address both sides to find a solution.

I didn't say I agree with what Israel is doing so I'm not sure what the point of your comment is.

The truth is that there are zealots on both sides.

Assuming any children survive, how many do you think want to have a tea party with Israel these days?

Not just 1947, Jews have been been in the area continuously and have bought land many times. 27 million dunams, which is equivalent to about 7-8 million acres if I'm not wrong, but were attacked since Jews are somehow an exception for owning land. During the same time period Israel was created, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and I believe 2-3 other Arab Muslim countries were created, yet those countries were not attacked.

Israel has not expanded. It has shrunk. It returned Sinai to Egypt. It returned Gaza to the Palestinians. It gave control of west bank cities to the Palestinian Authority after allowing it's bitter enemy leadership (the PLO and Arafat) to return to the West Bank.

I'm reading Ireland between the lines. There is zero similarity.

A two state solution is not possible because most Palestinians do not want that solution. They want Israel erased and Jews "erased" from the middle east. Offers were already on the table and refused and the Oslo peace process was killed by Hamas violence.

> a two state solution was never acceptable to Israel

Most recently in 2008, Israel made exactly such an offer and was rejected.

"Abbas has since confirmed that he turned down an Israeli offer for a Palestinian state on nearly 95% of the West Bank. In September 2008, Olmert had presented him with a map that delineated the borders of the proposed PA state, for which Israel would annex 6.3 percent of the West Bank and compensate the Palestinians with 5.8 percent (taken from pre-1967 Israel), which Abbas stated he rejected out of hand, insisting instead to demarcate the 4 June 1967 borders of Palestine. He said that Olmert did not give a map of the proposal and that he could not sign without seeing the proposal. Abbas also said that he was not an expert on maps and pointed to Olmert's corruption investigation (he was later convicted).[68][69] Abbas said in October 2011 that he made a counteroffer to let Israel annex 1.9% of the West Bank."

Sadly, English wikipedia has a lot less information on this than the Hebrew wikipedia, but maybe turn your translation software to this: https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%97%D7%95%D7%AA...

They've also not targeted your country either like they did Israel. Even Hungary has recognized their strange obsession with Israel recently. The ICC is part of the U.N. and have passed more resolutions against Israel, then the rest of the world combined. It's pure insanity. Especially when comparing a democracy in the Middle East, a place where every other country is either authoritarian, totalitarian, run by terrorists, or dictators. Bashar-Al-Assad has killed over 700,000 people, yet somehow Israel is worse. It's pure insanity.

saying he is somehow solely responsible for Hamas is more than bias it's propaganda and lies. On the one hand people will defend Hamas and claim Israel is the aggressor and in the same sentence damn them while still blaming Israel. What kind of s#$% is that?

Correction a two state solution is never possible when your neighbors are a terrorist organization backed by Iran, who coordinates with other terrorist organization who are also funded by Iran. This word play of calling Israel will not work. Unfortunately not everything is relative and words have actual meanings. When an organizations policy is to kidnap, torture, rape, and murder civilians with impunity, that is a terror organization, unlike the defense force of a democracy.