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1210 points jbegley | 12 comments | | HN request time: 7.052s | source | bottom
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mjevans ◴[] No.43656889[source]
I think my country (USA) would be healthier if a common sense viewpoint was selected and held.

Conflicts are always terrible, and the Eurasia / Africa region countries are particularly brutal.

Every citizen of every country has a human right (in a civilized civilization / society) to live a life that does not involve violence. A life where they are not worried about RPGs, bombings, (etc,) or military invasions.

Some sources of conflict involve places which various (different) religions hold as sacred / holy. Those sites should become UN world heritage locations and be managed by the UN in ways that only allow non-military peaceful access for any who want to visit.

With respect to Gaza my personal opinion remains unchanged. Both an innocent civilian people who suffer, and a terrorist government, remain in that region. The civilians should be evacuated. The terrorists who remain after (or whom are caught and found guilty in a trial) should be purged. The country should then be cleaned up, rebuilt, and returned to the innocent people along with a training-wheels UN supported government that brings stability, peace, and prevents a resurgence of hate and terrorism. In a few generations the country can grow more stable and graduate from the guided government structure.

That would be not just a two state solution, but a two states and global peace sites solution.

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1. thot_experiment ◴[] No.43656982[source]
this is grossly misunderstanding the situation in Gaza, a two state solution was never acceptable to Israel, Hamas as it exists today is a result of Netanyahu policy. Israel created the monster to justify their genocide.
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2. mjevans ◴[] No.43657002[source]
That might be the case, but that man cannot live forever. I am thinking long term, but am also just a civilian in the US. If there is good reason to have another policy I would like the experts to articulate that logic to us.
3. HappyPanacea ◴[] No.43657187[source]
> a two state solution was never acceptable to Israel

Wrong, they accepted the 1947 partition plan and agreed to the Oslo accords

replies(2): >>43657681 #>>43661086 #
4. mupuff1234 ◴[] No.43657661[source]
Except Hamas took over Gaza in 2006/7 more or less in it's current form, before Netanyahu came back into power at 2009.

Hamas has always been an extreme organization, they executed a bunch of Fatah members by throwing them off buildings when they took over gaza, not exactly a fun loving bunch.

Sure Netanyahu didn't exactly help to see the least, but saying he is somehow solely responsible for Hamas is pretty biased.

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5. cbzbc ◴[] No.43657681[source]
The Oslo accords were intended - in the words of Rabin - to give the Palestinians 'less than a state', and arguably the division of the West Bank into Areas A, B and C have allowed for the expansion of settlements in the latter.

Whether the 1947 partition was accepted as a final state depends on who you ask, it's fairly clear that prominent figures viewed it as a stop along the way to a more comprehensive settlement. Take Ben Gurion ("After the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine.") or Chaim Weizmann ("partition might be only a temporary arrangement for the next twenty to twenty-five years"). Menachem Begin's Herut continued to use the slogan 'Both banks of the Jordan River", and this language is reflected in Likud's founding charter.

6. tdeck ◴[] No.43658162[source]
> executed a bunch of Fatah members by throwing them off buildings when they took over gaza

Was this before or after Fatah lost an election and then refused to step down, instead staging a violent coup?

replies(1): >>43658263 #
7. mupuff1234 ◴[] No.43658263{3}[source]
Are you actually trying to defend the execution of prisoners?

And that's putting aside whether what you said is right or wrong (which I'm sure you'll get very different answers from each side)

8. basisword ◴[] No.43658664[source]
>> Hamas has always been an extreme organization, they executed a bunch of Fatah members by throwing them off buildings when they took over Gaza, not exactly a fun loving bunch.

Agreed. And Israel have annihilated over 50,000 Gazans. Not exactly a fun loving bunch.

replies(1): >>43659390 #
9. mupuff1234 ◴[] No.43659390{3}[source]
I didn't say I agree with what Israel is doing so I'm not sure what the point of your comment is.

The truth is that there are zealots on both sides.

10. sfx77 ◴[] No.43661086[source]
Not just 1947, Jews have been been in the area continuously and have bought land many times. 27 million dunams, which is equivalent to about 7-8 million acres if I'm not wrong, but were attacked since Jews are somehow an exception for owning land. During the same time period Israel was created, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and I believe 2-3 other Arab Muslim countries were created, yet those countries were not attacked.
11. Adverblessly ◴[] No.43664082[source]
> a two state solution was never acceptable to Israel

Most recently in 2008, Israel made exactly such an offer and was rejected.

"Abbas has since confirmed that he turned down an Israeli offer for a Palestinian state on nearly 95% of the West Bank. In September 2008, Olmert had presented him with a map that delineated the borders of the proposed PA state, for which Israel would annex 6.3 percent of the West Bank and compensate the Palestinians with 5.8 percent (taken from pre-1967 Israel), which Abbas stated he rejected out of hand, insisting instead to demarcate the 4 June 1967 borders of Palestine. He said that Olmert did not give a map of the proposal and that he could not sign without seeing the proposal. Abbas also said that he was not an expert on maps and pointed to Olmert's corruption investigation (he was later convicted).[68][69] Abbas said in October 2011 that he made a counteroffer to let Israel annex 1.9% of the West Bank."

Sadly, English wikipedia has a lot less information on this than the Hebrew wikipedia, but maybe turn your translation software to this: https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%97%D7%95%D7%AA...

12. sfx77 ◴[] No.43664126[source]
saying he is somehow solely responsible for Hamas is more than bias it's propaganda and lies. On the one hand people will defend Hamas and claim Israel is the aggressor and in the same sentence damn them while still blaming Israel. What kind of s#$% is that?