> “That’s the whole point of it, we didn’t want to do sort of boring techno stuff as well, or jungle, so we picked speed garage, it’s funkier than house and garage.”[3]
[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_Bumble
[2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8FQ-N0zb2U)
[3]: https://archive.org/details/64-magazine-15/page/n39/mode/1up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isiVdlz8bDY
It's educational, reference real events and you may have a laugh at the same time ;)
[1] https://potenzadsp.com/plugins/amigo/
[2] https://www.instagram.com/p/C0Pf1bNPgWy/?hl=en
[3] https://www.youtube.com/@TheBizzyBScience
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRMN7GzZ3ic&list=PLE0926B068...
also funny how you can beat the game as a dolphin flying a plane haha
Soul of the Samurai: https://youtu.be/JAyu7o_t_Ys?si=6RvvXtpsLyxXndCu&t=7190
Ace Combat 2: https://youtu.be/_ylkb5td5K0?si=LJw4bf3JsDilDEnf&t=114
Some rough mixes here and there (especially the first one) because it was live from a NYE event. But it suits the style of music, that era was so raw and fresh, the future was being invented right there! Very happy days :)
1) DJ SS - Intro
2) Higher Sense - Cold Fresh Air
3) Deep Blue - The Helicopter Tune
4) Roni Size - Time Stretch (93 Mix)
5) DMS & The Boneman X - Sweet Vibrations
6) Engineers Without Fears - Spiritual Aura
7) Omni Trio - Soul Promenade
8) Codename John - Kindred
9) Brainkillers - Screwface
10) Dubtronix - Fantasy (Remix)
11) M-Beat - Incredible
12) DJ Rap - Your Mind (Gimp/Steve Mix)
13) Asend & Ultravibe - What Kind Of World
14) LTJ Bukem – Horizons
15) Bruck Wild - Silent Dub
For the adventurous Ishkur also has a nice opinionated guide through the history of electronic music with much of its facets: https://music.ishkur.com/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akf4vQs7R9A&list=PLCDB3A4909...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7dQELIwP0U&list=PLD48C6CD40...
https://youtu.be/V_akDC1ztXQ?si=wxMOxlfvaN4IRSnw
and this:
One of the things I noticed with a bunch of the younger producers is that they make really nice tunes but they don't bother with the whole intro/outro thing so there's no buffer on either end of the track to mix the thing unless you go add them yourself before even attempting to get them in with a bunch of older choons meant for mixing. like this is great [1], but 1:34 minutes lmao what? On the other hand people who have been at it since the very early days are still quietly releasing alot, here's some secret dillinja cuts [2]
I didn't expect a jungle setlist while browsing HN — bless
...and as a bonus, have this 'n all...
...and as it's a Wednesday, have this as a freebie:
While the gameplay (brutal flight sim) wasn’t that compelling to child me, it had a full soundtrack made of multiple genres that lives in my brain to this day, especially “Monk’s revenge”. In fact, I think it was setup so that you could put the disk in a CD player and have it play as an audio disk. No idea if any of it counts as “jungle”, but it’s very much 90’s electronic game music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9c6PPlkvBE&list=PLc3TVNLOqs...
I've been told by several Gen-Z that they've never been to a "rave", and I feel sorry for them. In my town, we had quite the underground scene, but then times changed and it is so much smaller now. Now, "kids" just call it all EDM instead of the specific genre that we know and love.
https://gta.fandom.com/wiki/Moving_Shadow
For those interested I can highly recommend the "Moving Shadow Sampler Series" mix anthology [0]
[0] https://www.discogs.com/label/396717-Movingshadow-Sampler-Se...
I had heard some techno and eurodance was popular at the time, but the sounds coming out of the speaker at the store where the demo ran was on another level.
Bought the CD and listen to it every now and then, and Orbital's Petrol track is still up there on my top 100 list.
There was something raw, and edge, that seems lost in so much electronic music these days.
[1]: https://www.discogs.com/release/6385-Various-Wipeout-2097-Th...
There's a night in London called Cartulis (which is usually at Fold), when I go there it feels very much like the early rave scene to me (this is just one example, of course). I think there's a tendency when we get older to not be as exposed to the bubbling undercurrent of music, so it's easy to just say "it's not as good as it used to be", but that would be a mistake imho. It's there if you look for it.
Genuinely glad I got to experience so much of it growing up with a PS1 and the genre's stuck with me. If you want to focus on listening or have some soothing background noise, it's perfect, versatile.
While not all jungle, shouout to PS1 racing games for their killer soundtracks. The glorified mixtape of Gran Turismo 2 (all versions!), Colin Mcrae Rally's acid beats, everything in Ridge Racer. Really feels like vidya soundtracks peaked there.
Does HN have any advice on how to get started with synthesizers, with an eye towards creating a game soundtrack?
Tempest 2000 was probably more acid house influenced, but there was also a lot of early breakbeat hardcore/jungle tunes in there too.
I'm constantly listening to new music, and I've come up with lots of new tracks that will make a helluva set list, one day. Problem I have is only owning 1200s, and none of the gear to let those drive digital files. My discretionary funds for gear has evolved into other things so buying the right equipment gets pushed lower on the priority list
I feel like with each new wave of music technology, people basically search the space for a while until the fruitful sub spaces are identified.
The novelty of the exploration is what is there the first time and not there in the future. You don’t know what’s going to sound good until someone happens to bump into it. You get surprises.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Huelsbeck
Maybe I'm nostalgic, but these tunes were amazing. https://youtu.be/7dJrsmt9BOY
Oh, and if you haven't invested 30 minutes of your remaining lifetime listening to Orbital - The Box (Full Version) you are missing a masterpiece.
Here is Orbital's Paul Hartnoll playing with his gear:
https://soundcloud.com/paullouth/paul-louth-jungle-mix-nye-2...
no, you got your trance in my drum-n-bass.
that new wave of technology meant that anyone with access to warez could create music for $0 instead of the thousands on buying synths and samplers. no more renting a truck to haul that gear to a gig; now it's just a laptop and/or tablet. new choons level achieved
Tundra is a masterpiece:
Mixing and production are worlds better and musicianship has improved compared to where it was for genres where people care about musicianship, but the actual music is mostly either painfully derivative or actively worse because it's trying too hard to be "different."
Modern metal is amazing compared to the stuff from the 90s though.
I don't think there were any available in my hometown (or they were too underground for me to have ever heard about!), and there wasn't much exposure to electronic music at all, so it's not an experience I'd ever considered trying to find out how to have.
Just one person's anecdote, of course, but I wonder what the balance of generation vs. location is!
Thanks for sharing your mix!
> The techno scene originated in Germany, reached the UK, and it was later associated with the Chicago & Detroit EDM scene in America.
Techno was invented in Detroit, house music in Chicago. Germany like techno. In no sense whatsoever did they invent or originate it.
Biggest hit: Rocking steady - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V5xlLs-OQY
I also cannot get this track he made for a 1998 video game out of my head:
Long gone are the days of "shoes in the dryer" mixes where guys were just slamming two DATs together with no pitch control. Sadly, I think we've gotten to the point of those tight mixes being less of the skill of the DJ and the result of software. With everything being done on laptops with cool software, I really wonder how many DJs are even mixing and just performing while a premixed file plays.
But as you say, the production quality has definitely improved. The music is just clean with no quality loss from layering/multi-tracking/bouncing. The concept of the space between notes has never been so distinguished.
I know what you mean but Metallica, Pantera, and Emperor (black metal) are still all-time classic staples in my discography.
(They discovered two step garage earlier in the year, now they've moved on to jungle. I look forward to them discovering UK dubstep from before Skrillex)
Per TFA, most of my exposure music that's now put under the EDM umbrella was through video games (DDR...). Also mix-discs curated from Limewire downloads, keygens, Windows Movie Maker AMVs, and the Newgrounds/Youtube/Bandcamp releases of amateur FruityLoops producers.
I suppose what might make this paradigm interesting to consider is that it means most of this music was a contributing element to some larger project, and not just something to enjoy on its own (though you could make the case that music at a rave is just a means to forging social and emotional connections). As such, there are a lot of songs that people my age will recognize immediately, and absolutely could not tell you who made them (just where they heard it first).
The PS1 was a real zeitgeist moment where gaming came of age.
Fabio and Grooverider are seminal figures to the scene, yes, but they did not originate the sound.
But for example techno and house these days have such a gargantuan amount of variety. And because those genres were digital-ish to begin with, they didn't suffer as much from the evolution of DAWs compared to some other genres.
This would have done well at a 90s rave (especially from 4:45 onward): https://open.spotify.com/track/5v2NmAWURnM260nd2acPLr
I guess for "90s" Metal it strongly varies how much studio backing there was and if it is early or late 90s. Late 90s sounds great: https://open.spotify.com/track/0JBQnLKfLXmlkquabLtAgd?
Three related playlist:
- Very underground 90s Hip-Hop cuts: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1LhtrTYYMKu8G33paRWFIL
- Rave-y Techno: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7ktoUGruqYdoY3vLhDDtaB
- All sorts of Metal with melodic elements: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/1Wec2pdudcDyIHvOu4fL7b
https://learningsynths.ableton.com/
For a more advanced set of lessons there is Syntorial, which has a demo including the first 20 or so lessons and the full set of 200 lessons for $120. Syntorial requires a download, but it's a full synthesizer with lessons built into it, so you can use it in your own music.
Aside from that I'd say youtube is the best source. While you're still a beginner I'd recommend avoiding any videos where they don't show the finished result because it's much harder to tell if the video is BS or not.
For free synthesizers, I'd recommend "TAL U-NO-60" as a good beginner one, it's modeled after the Roland Juno 60. And "Vital" for a more complex / less beginner friendly one. Both of those have paid versions with additional features but those additional features are not necessary at all. You'll also need a DAW software capable of loading VST plugins to use them.
Anyway to avoid app install?
-Can't forget Facing Worlds in Unreal Tournament 1999! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i_0G6WPuss4
-Andy C will be in Los Angeles Nov. 28 (typically plays LA a few times per year)
-Worth checking out: Modern DJs who mix DnB/jungle with "footwork" (musical genre), e.g. Sharelle https://m.soundcloud.com/iamsherelle
-BBC Radio 1, Radio 6, and Rinse FM all have drum n bass shows and are available for free online and through Alexa etc.
-h2k2 had at least one wicked drum n bass set, I wonder if any of you were there :)
EDIT: yup it's in TFA, facepalming myself.
Verse 1: Listen up, listen up, I got a story to tell About a brand new study bible that's straight outta hell It's called "The Rilla Bibla," and it's the real deal Got all the wisdom, all the knowledge, it's the bomb, it's for real
Chorus: The Rilla Bibla, it's the one and only Got all the beats and rhythm, it's the holy holy It's got the flow, it's got the style It's gonna elevate your understanding, mile by mile
etc. etc. Golden.
who remembers Ojuice.net?
https://soundcloud.com/paullouth/paul-louth-jungle-mix-nye-2...
For anyone needing an excellent subwoofer, check out RSL Speedwoofer 10e ($299) or 10s. What a world of difference a good sub makes.
With dB festival gone, do people just hit up showbox or monkey loft shows and try to make friends?
The very best of jungle was "UK Apache with Shy FX - Original Nuttah". It got a bit of re-release for its 25th birthday (5 years ago) with an intro by Idris Elba.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GclYmrvWyuY
Ali G gave jungle a moment to shine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efgIm9YPZvE
And jungle isnt dead its just evolved a bit! Nia Archives - Off Wiv Ya Headz from last year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrnDC94_Tic
Amen brother, Amen!
Never really liked the CD but there are some unique, weird tracks on there.
I know the artist that made the image* used for the inside jacket for the Prodigy says it wasn’t about rave culture, but it’s still one of my favorite counter culture images.
* https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6c/54/ff/6c54ff7df285244d2d56...
Sorry for the Pinterest link. It was the first one to pop up in search
AFD's soundtrack is interesting because it tends to be superficially EDM-ish but still pulls in that jungle influence. Track 2 on that playlist is a perfect example: you have a very standard drum beat front and center, but you also have a heavily-chopped drum beat as texture from the very first moment. The resulting syncopated effect with the piano and synth cords is a nice touch (especially in that bit around the 2 minute mark, which itself is a nice introduction to a broader motif throughout the rest of the soundtrack, particularly the finale Track 24 - which itself is another great example of that "EDM main beat with jungle-like chopping as texture" style).
Occasionally that style flips around, though. Track 15 is a good example, where it's the chopped beat (albeit not severely) that takes front and center, yet again producing neat syncopated effects with the synth chords now in the more rigid role. Similar deal with Tracks 8, 10, and 13, though most of these are less afraid to move the chords into the off-beats.
And then there's my second-favorite track, Track 11, which deemphasizes the chopped drums a bit but instead chops up the synth arpeggios for the same effect of adding that nice bit of texture to the pulsing beat and soaring synths.
My favorite track, Track 7, alternates between a very pure-jungle sound across the board (with the drums and chords being heavily chopped and syncopated, often in support of nice long notes) and brief moments of that EDM-like pulse, to great effect.
And of course there's plenty of great stuff outside of that EDM/jungle hybrid, like Track 23's Harold-Faltermeyer-esque "Top Gun Anthem" knockoff, or the smooth-jazz-ish segues like Track 22.
All in all, a fantastic body of work that defined my childhood.
----
Another game conspicuously missing from the discussion is Buck Bumble and its jungle-to-the-max soundtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lax-KRVVPfo&list=PLeXmIIlkcO...
bump to the boom to the bump to the bass, bump to the boom to the bumble
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhcqYxogdsU
If you were part of the rave scene, you should watch the whole film, it's full of comedy and nostalgia of those hedonistic times. One of my all time favourite films.
Europe is a given but I hear Asia is popping off too. I have friends in Oceania who do some work around the scene. Really it's all over the world, people never stopped partying it just goes a little more underground here and there
Wait, wait, wait! I think I got the wrong USB!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9-p06yiJ6Q (Wheels on the bus)
Add these to the list...
Saint Etienne - The Sea (PFM Mix): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1JrnoEbQDE
Funky Technicians - Airtight (Original) (1996): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwC43QSY94A
As a jungle fan since the 90s, don't spout that offensive nonsense ;)
Seriously, there are marked differences between the two other than BPM that make them sound very distinctive (and D&B typically boring to me as a result) - generally, jungle is heavily syncopated and makes more uses of chopped samples vs D&B which tends to be sequenced fairly straight and makes more use of programmed drums.
For example Pete Cannon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1eA-FGJ8B0
More recent livesets using dual Amigas, from the Amiga Junglism channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHPIxrcjKW4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P6VxIWFl7g
Some mixtapes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NjqNwHidpk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oe3jEA7710s
I still listen to the UT99 soundtrack when I need to concentrate on something.
The game's soundtrack is iconic. Dark Ruins is a favorite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jbNHgmU1TM
This is your own fault for going to EDM/house/trap parties. Go to better parties, then you'll find better music.
P.S. Let's hang out )
Not sure I would class it as jungle though.
I started the first way in the early 80s and did the second and have a life long love of synths ( I don't even know how many I have now but probably around 30-40 hardware synths, samplers and drum machines).
https://soundcloud.com/kmyle/kmyle-empire-bns089?si=0ce480e4...
https://soundcloud.com/kmyle/kmyle-cocoon-original-mix?si=73...
https://soundcloud.com/hate_music/premiere-introversion-sea-...
https://soundcloud.com/regalmusic/regal-undisputed?si=a6bdf3...
https://soundcloud.com/darko-esser/darko-esser-zondag-2008?s...
https://soundcloud.com/hate_music/premiere-wtchcrft-new-frie...
https://soundcloud.com/hate_music/premiere-marco-bailey-trai...
I used to run a Jungle night, and once we booked Paradox to play. He brought his entire Amiga set up and we had to replace the decks with it for his set. He had to load each track from a floppy disk and it took like 2-3 mins whilst the beat of the previous track would play out and the crowd waited for the next track to load. Crazy seeing a whole dancefloor chilling waiting for a floppy disk to load up!
https://inv.nadeko.net/playlist?list=PLF8fxbriplbmwB7zypOxa_oV4fkzTQOEh
A600s, A1200s, maybe others, maybe other versions or variants of protracker, I'm not sure. Anyway, if someone can get through 30s of mix 1 without losing their sh*t, I want to hear about it, I'll keel over.
And, to top it all off, about a week in to these mixes on loop, I ask myself: what is that software? Is that still going? And I discover some fellow called "Olav Sørensen" recently wrote an identical-looking protracker clone:
https://16-bits.org/pt2.php
EDIT: GH link https://github.com/8bitbubsy/pt2-clone
Rock raiders too
I enjoy Berlin minimal techno but it's not exactly popular.
As an oldster who has only recently gotten into edm, I am clue free on where to begin finding anything underground and mainstream venues suck.
You're right, minimal techno is not the most popular form of techno right now. That's not a new thing that happened in this decade though. Techno has been going through trends of being faster and more maximalist vs slower and minimalist since it began. I'm sorry that you're struggling to find minimal techno nights to your liking, I'm sure there are some out there and I'm sure the trend will come back around. But the techno of my generation is not all EDM or trap influenced so I know you're talking out your ass. You may have been to many techno events in your life, but what you're saying here just proves you're out of the loop like many nostalgic oldheads. So maybe just take a step back and consider that you may have lost touch with the underground. You certainly have if you think drumcode is an underground reference these days.
Software route: Get a midi controller with plenty of knobs and buttons that is supported for easy use by whatever DAW you want (digital audio workstation). By easy use, I mean that there is a config available within the DAW that will map the controller's buttons/knobs etc.to functions within the DAW. Examples: Push 3 or Launchkey keyboards for Abelton, Komplete Kontrol, etc.
If you want a lighter synth that is paired with a sequencer, drum machine, and effects all-in-one hardware box, for fun on the go or on your couch, you want a groovebox. I like the Novation Circuit Tracks, which has a serious synth under the hood, accessible by PC or a midi controller (Novation Launch Control XL is plug-n-play friendly if you download an addon from their website).
If I have to go to a club in new york or berlin to hear music it's not culturally relevant. The stuff you linked gets zero play at festivals.
The key word is GOOD. Not that you just go places bro. You're clearly unsatisfied with the music you're hearing at these events. SO FIND BETTER ONES.
Edit: Festivals have never been the beating heart of the techno scene my friend. I'm sorry to break it to you. And again, I've been to good festivals which do play this stuff - you clearly don't know where to go and you're taking it out on my generation when its on YOU.
https://coldstorage.bandcamp.com/album/wipeout-the-zero-grav...
For easy listening jungle/Drum N Bass, excellent for work, search for "atmospheric drum n bass" or "liquid drum n bass". Artists: Photek, LTJ Bukem, DB (some), etc. Best atmospheric mix w vocals ever: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAXnFZ3anlE
For a tour of jungle over time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgK8h9xRFls
For a famous jungle dj/vocalist pairing: AK1200 moonshine over america https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqRNrhQvYEc
Also, you may recognize Goldie, a pioneer of the genre, who turned actor, turned model, and more recently launched a record label
wikipedia has a whole section on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_dance_music#Termino...
I fell down the synthesizer rabbit hole during covid. And the urge to acquire more hardware is real. Resist! Try not to chase synth youtube gear cycles. Remember, synthesizers make sounds, not music. Not that there's anything wrong with enjoying sound design, it is fun. But if your goal is to make music, it can be a trap.
> Does HN have any advice on how to get started with synthesizers.
For me, synthesizers didn't click until I got my first super basic knob-per-function synth. There was just so many things I didn't know, that a VST like Vital had way too many options. Once I figured out most synths are just oscillators -> mixer -> filter -> amp, plus envelopes and LFO's for modulation... I could use pretty much any synth.
Here is Wendy Carlos explaining the above concepts in under 4 minutes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SBDH5uhs4Q
Once you understand those basics, maybe look at videos that show you how to recreate famous sounds. Probably start with simple classic sounds so you get a feel for how the synthesizer controls shape that sound.
Here is Anthony Marinelli showing you the bass sound from Madonna's Holiday in under 8m. He does a good job explaining why you use a certain setting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVedA7H4qpQ
My last piece of advice: the online synth community can be a bit toxic <cough>reddit</cough>. Ignore them and just do what feels fun. It's a hobby after all!
https://www.ami64.com/product-page/gotek-usb-flash-drive-for...
What does this mean? How is software plug-n-play?
I think I'm at the age where I'm more interested in participating as someone actually creating part of the entertainment if I'm going to feel like I'm having the best time though, I think that's probably the best way for anyone to get into it. Lots of volunteer opportunities at festivals and of course paid gigs you can do. If you're a programmer, maybe getting deep into visuals is a way you can have some fun contributing too.
There are raves happening in warzones and even places you think there would be authoritarian crackdowns like China
Using metal as an example; the 80’s and 90’s as an example had several distinct vibrant scenes, Bergen’s Black Metal, Gothenburg’s Melodeath, Tampa Bay’s Death Metal, as examples. All distinct and vibrant with a period of sustained development with a cluster of artists who seemed to circulate and work off each other.
Today it feels easier to connect with others globally with music genres we like, but it’s almost as if this homogenises the art we produce in a sense.
A core collection of 20-40 artists and musicians working and operating in isolation (comparative to now), sharing what they enjoy, spinning it and innovating it to something new.
To genericise it and bring it back to the core of this place - In a sense one relate these scenes in a way to areas with a particularly strong start-up scene, albeit more freeform and wholly artistic in their endeavours.
I did this and know other devs who did this in the early 2000s lol.
I was AFK all night after posting this, but I actually regret not acknowledging international contributions to techno music and culture, which was and is huge.
But I can't agree with this:
> Where it comes from is defined by where you draw a line in the sand.
There was a time before anyone called music 'techno', and a time after. That's the line, and the part of history which crossed that line happened in the Detroit Metro area. There's no disputing this.
Techno parties are all about having a good time and welcoming everyone, no matter who they are or where they're from. The music is absolutely a blend of influences from all over, and Germans took to it (hard!) for a reason. But roots is roots.
Both Chicago house and NYC/NJ Garage house developed in the early to mid 80s, whereas techno (as a term as well as a cohesive sound) didn't become a thing until the late 80s.
To be clear, I'm not trying to downplay the absolutely massive importance of the Belleville Three at all. But I would consider Juan Atkins' early work to be electro, rather than techno. And meanwhile Kevin Saunderson's best songs always felt more house-like than techno to my ear.
Anyway, jungle's most immediate predecessor was UK breakbeat hardcore, which combined breakbeats from funk and hip hop, with synth influences from acid house (Chicago) and new beat (Belgium), among other house-derived genres. I guess I just don't hear much of a techno influence in early jungle. In my view, that doesn't come in until some slightly later drum and bass subgrenres like techstep.
That all said, definitely agree that the timeline described in the article (which gave credit to Germany and the UK) is just plain wrong.
What's interesting is the firmware everyone uses, FlashFloppy[0].
*(Caveat, haven't been to one in the last 5 or 6 years so things may have changed. As always, "it was better next year!")
Figure out who your local promoters are, & follow their socials also.
Go to a youth focused cafe or skate park, look at what event posters are being posted on the walls? Unsure if the kiddies still post bills for small events, honestly everything is on social media these days, and is where you should start once you've identified some names.
In my city, facebook is the most reliable way to discover events - we have very active promoters in the main '$city $genre scene' public fb groups.