Most active commenters

    ←back to thread

    272 points lermontov | 19 comments | | HN request time: 0.413s | source | bottom
    1. busyant ◴[] No.41906084[source]
    It's funny (ironic?), but when I read "an amateur {insert occupation} has"

    I mentally replace "an amateur" with "a talented and passionate"

    For me, amateur just doesn't mean the insult that it meant when I was a youngster.

    replies(5): >>41906111 #>>41906239 #>>41906395 #>>41906511 #>>41907317 #
    2. rahimnathwani ◴[] No.41906111[source]
    The word 'amateur' originates from the Latin word for 'lover'.
    replies(3): >>41906177 #>>41906263 #>>41906375 #
    3. zanellato19 ◴[] No.41906177[source]
    Thank you! I've been using this word in portuguese (amador) and its so _so_ clear in that language, even so, I hadn't realized. Amar -> Amador (the one who loves it). Quite clearly.
    4. cortesoft ◴[] No.41906239[source]
    I have never thought of it as an insult, just meaning they don't do it for money.
    5. bombcar ◴[] No.41906263[source]
    Exactly, and "professional" means they do it for money.
    replies(1): >>41906357 #
    6. otherme123 ◴[] No.41906357{3}[source]
    The point is that "amateur" means literally "lover" in latin. While "professional" means "for money" today, in latin it meant "to profess a vow to do it with high standards".

    For example, you can be a professional, but do things "pro bono" (for free or for public good) or "pro lucro" (for money).

    replies(3): >>41906384 #>>41907275 #>>41910735 #
    7. echelon ◴[] No.41906375[source]
    But amateur has taken on a negative connotation in the common vernacular.

    "Amateurish" or "amateurishly" feel damning and assertions about a certain absence of quality or attention to detail.

    Describing someone as a "total amateur" feels a bit like calling them a hack.

    This needs a separate word or concept.

    replies(3): >>41906387 #>>41906471 #>>41906480 #
    8. retrac ◴[] No.41906384{4}[source]
    "Vocation" has undergone a similar shift; originally it meant a calling, or a summons.
    replies(2): >>41906456 #>>41906592 #
    9. adamc ◴[] No.41906387{3}[source]
    We could try reclaiming the word.
    10. kazinator ◴[] No.41906395[source]
    Yeah but it's often intended as an insult. Especially as the adjective amateurish, or phrases like the work of an amateur.

    Amateur historian could never be an insult, because it's actually better to have a real career in something substantial, and do the history stuff on the side as a hobby.

    11. RandomThoughts3 ◴[] No.41906456{5}[source]
    It still does.
    12. RandomThoughts3 ◴[] No.41906471{3}[source]
    Dilletante already exists to mean someone who doesn’t do something with seriousness and amateur doesn’t carry the same connotation as amateurish anyway so you don’t really need a new word.
    13. idiotlogical ◴[] No.41906480{3}[source]
    The term 'nerd' needs to complete its rehabilitation like 'geek' has the last 20 years. It's the most concise term I can think of when describing someone who is enthusiastic, focused, and knowledgable on a subject. I think it's a badge of honor
    replies(1): >>41906858 #
    14. qingcharles ◴[] No.41906511[source]
    For me, amateur generally just translates as "not paid for his services."
    15. thrwaway1337 ◴[] No.41906592{5}[source]
    Just don't go looking for the etymology of "vanilla"
    16. PsylentKnight ◴[] No.41906858{4}[source]
    There's "aficionado", though that feels a little pretentious
    17. Archelaos ◴[] No.41907275{4}[source]
    "Doing something was a high standard" is still the main meaning of the word "professionell" in German. So someone can make something "unprofessionell" for money or "professionell" without payment.

    Another word of classical origin with a striking difference is the meaning of the word "pathetisch" in German, which means "(exaggeratedly) passionate", which corresponds more or less to the meaning of the Ancient Greek word "pathetikos".

    18. ◴[] No.41907317[source]
    19. thaumasiotes ◴[] No.41910735{4}[source]
    > The point is that "amateur" means literally "lover" in latin.

    It doesn't mean anything in Latin. It means "lover" in French. Possibly a version of French from before "love" changed to "aimer".