Love being interrupted when my monitor asks me to accept user agreements

I am seriously considering creating a dropship company focused exclusively on buying and selling electronic components that are sold for parts and people can assemble them at home, Ikea-style.

I would start with selling 50" and 65" inch "dumb" TVs. Just the panel, a nice enclosure and a board with an IR receiver, TV tuner and HDMI outputs. BYO top box and Soundbar. I wonder how fast it would take to get 10000 orders.

Is it even possible to just buy panels for normal consumers?

Customer here!

Drop me a line if you ever decide to start. Be glad to help.

please do. but it seems it would be more expensive to produce a tv with less features: https://www.tomsguide.com/features/dumb-tvs-heres-why-you-ca...

Look up "large format display". Its basically a TV sans any smart shit. Used in commercial display applications, dynamic menus in restaurants, info panels etc.

They are mad expensive because presumably they are not subsidised by the shitware that "smart" tvs ship with.

I would absolutely love something like that.

I'm sure the ad revenue is part of it, but the commercial ones are also built for 24/7 operation over the course of years. And I expect another part of the added expense is that they know commercial purchasers aren't as price sensitive.

I’ve also thought about this in quite some depth. I think people would be willing to pay a premium for simple, quality electronics.

I also think there could be a good opportunity to expand this to kitchen appliances too. Premium quality but really dumb. I would be a loyal customer

Sign me up

I would love to buy a TV with a great image quality, a bunch of ports, image tweaking and nothing else. No wifi, no cellular, no internet, no speakers.

Honestly? Doesn’t even need a remote provided CEC works fine with my Apple TV.

"Google pays between $12 and $15 per unit to a manufacturer like TCL or Hisense per TV that uses Google TV."

I'd be willing to pay a $15 premium for a TV that is built to do what I want, not what an advertiser wants.

I think you'll find the price at that volume and without subsidy a bit higher than a lot of people want to pay.

It may be cheaper and even easier to just buy and somehow modify Onn/Hisense into dumb displays, though I've never explored the idea myself to know how feasible it even is.

How about BYO tuner while you're at it?

See the LG 48 CX OLED television versus the Gigabyte AORUS FO48U OLED monitor. The LG was a jump in quality and performance (4K 120Hz) and many people bought it to use as a computer monitor. But it's smart (cannot disable advertising itself over Bluetooth while on), cannot be woken up over HDMI (requires using the remote control to turn on each day) and it does not have displayport in.

The Aorus is the same panel but not a TV, functions as a monitor should, and I would have bought that instead had I known.

If a product finder like alternativeto.net existed, where you find non-shittified alternatives to a popular appliance, I would use it every time I shop.

You can search NewEgg or Amazon for "Business TV" or "Commercial TV" and they will almost all be "dumb" TVs. They are readily available.

The entire reason that smart TVs are cheap with ads is because consumers "prefer" that. If (most) people bought expensive TVs with no ads, companies would, you know, sell that.

With kitchen appliances, it's already a thing. For example, there's a "retro" brand that sells microwaves with a timer knob:

https://www.amazon.com/Nostalgia-NRMO7YW6A-Countertop-Microw...

The problem in that segment is that it's basically the same disposable, non-repairable tech that's destined to the dumpster in a couple of years. The company is selling the appearance of having a different design philosophy, and it works because the consumer has no way of telling.

So, if you want to do anything more profound in that space, it's going to be hard to compete.

The Framework folks hit an unexpected snag with a similar idea: turns out the US tax on a laptop assembled in Taiwan is much lower than on a box of parts made in Taiwan that you can assemble into a laptop yourself. (Why? Because.) Thus the strange not-really-DIY “DIY edition”.

Microwaves that are just time and power setting, cooktops that are just four knobs, ovens that are just mode and heat, maybe a simple timer… I’d buy those too.

Readily available at a good premium.

You can sometimes get a great deal on these during liquidation though.

i think somebody is already doing it - you may combine forces. Check this thread, about year ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35484594

also, check this one from yesterday:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41855403

Nope, you're getting the ad-infested TVs for a good discount.

How would you tweak the image via CEC over the Apple TV?

Well, they're at a discount if your privacy has no value.

What is a laptop anyway? Can somebody sell 60 2-in-1 convertible laptops where the top bit comes off and also has an HDMI in port? The computer could be a raspberry pi or something…

I really doubt manufacturer lose money on smart tv sales.

Honestly when you see what a modern TV has inside and how it is assembled you realize that there’s not much “subsidy”.

Potentiometers on the side. (I’m only half joking)

Just don't connect the "smart" Tv to the internet. It's still a "dumb display" if you don't give it internet access. Don't give it wifi access, don't plug in an ethernet cable.

As a journalist once said to me, regarding a different topic (local politics in some city), something like: I wasn't surprised that bribes were happening; I was surprised that the bribes were so small.

Similar applies here: incredulous that, in various aspects of the tech industry, customers/users are often being sold out for such small amounts of money.

(Though manufacturing is easier to understand than a lot of software-only businesses, which aren't about cost engineering.)

Try buying the regular smart ones and disabling the spyware while keeping the rest of the subsidized price. It would be a legal battle about whether you can actually enforce some terms of use that would prohibit it. The rough part is having to cover the warranty when resold which will cost a lot. But probably still cheaper than the dropshipped dumb panels.

You have to decide what's more valuable to you - an extra chunk of money or the privacy which is endangered with the cheaper option.

I think the hdmi standard allows for Ethernet over hdmi. That’s a sneaky way in for your tv

I recently picked up an 85” Sony TV from Costco on clearance for $1399 (this model originally retailed for $2500, its only a step or two down from their top-of-the-line). I connected it to a hardwired ethernet cable, let it do the software updates, then unplugged it. No need for it to be online if I’m just using it with an AppleTV box anyway. I’d suspect an 85” “business TV” would be at least 4-5x the price.

Funny thing was after the software updates, the next day the TV prompted me to install a firmware update on the remote. First time I’ve ever seen that one.

I think you make a good point in general, but the Ikea TILLREDA microwave might be a better example of cheap and simple: https://www.ikea.com/ie/en/p/tillreda-microwave-oven-white-6...

That one you linked has actually quite a lot of features - the 12 presets, auto cooking mode, weight setting, the potentially confusing buttons like "express" and "micro power".

While its allowed by the standard, its not something that is often used. Certainly the AppleTV that I use does not even offer an option to share its network connection over Ethernet. And I’m not aware of any other box that does.

Probably. This is a thing with guns, too. In CA, for example, owning an AR15 with certain features is illegal. But separate the upper from the lower, and you no longer have an AR15; now you have parts, none of which are semiautomatic and center-fire on their own. That’s no longer illegal (though if they can prove intent everything changes, of course).

IANAL, but I always found that kind of loophole fascinating.

> Readily available at a good premium.

You have this backwards. The consumer "smart" units are subsidized by the monetization of the data they hoover up as you use it. This subsidized price has become accepted as normal price, but they clearly are discounted prices.

Yeah yeah, economy of scale on consumer vs prosumer+ units, but if you really believe that is the sole reason you are sorely mistaken

IR receiver is optional IMO. Most people would plug an Android TV box or media PC into it anyhow, which will handle volume control and power via HDMI.

Wouldn’t hold my breath.

The relevant subthread really is this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35487062

Industrial panels make horrible TVs. Even if you use an appropriate panel, there’s more than just designing a sheet metal case.

Based on people suggesting commercial large format displays, apparently some don’t understand this. The market for someone foolish enough to drop $3k on a large screen without Dolby Vision is very small though. People that are absolutely cost conscious will continue to buy the loss leader crap TVs.

It sort of makes sense. Like, I’m very bothered by this spyware-industrial system and put a high value on my privacy. But, objectively, I am extremely boring and seeing what I’m looking at is actually worth much less than $15.

It is actually really weird how popular this business model has become (I guess it is a thing because people don’t read the fine print). Invasion of privacy is, I think, extremely asymmetric, so the business model of spying on people is a huge destroyer of value.

I wanted to find a reputable source to back up this claim but instead I found a link from the atlantic. I did not read it, its behind a paywall and its not peer reviewed. The general concensus is that smart = subsidized by adware

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/01/smart...

No, they're at a discount period. They're sold for less money.

No, the lower is still legally considered a firearm. It can't fire anything, and it's not a gun in practical purposes, but for purposes of regulation it is still a firearm.

The reason it's probably still legal to have in California is that California bans a lot of largely cosmetic or non-functional items. For example, many states ban threaded barrels which by itself doesn't change any characteristics of the barrel other than the fact that it has a thread on the end of it.

It’ll only be a matter of a few years before it has a 5G modem and doesn’t give you a choice to “just” not connect it to the internet.

> I did not read it, its behind a paywall

Browse to the article, click reader mode, click refresh. Might need to be in a private window, in case of cookie shenanigans.

If apple can’t get free data for their cellular devices theres no hope for vizio et al.

Consumers only have a choice among what is already been made available in the marketplace.

I believe California has some laws that specifically apply to semiautomatic firearms, which an AR15 lower is not. The lower is incapable of semiautomatic fire (as in the gas blowback/piston system is in the upper).

They sell single-shot .50 BMG uppers, non-semiautomatic AR15 uppers do exist.

I believe the majority of stuff California regulates attaches to the upper anyways, which isn’t a firearm under federal law (unsure if Cali is weird about that). Bump stocks and responsive triggers are the only things I can think of California might regulate that go on the lower, and last I heard the ATF was tracking those down as an NFA violation.

The bump stock ban was struck down as exceeding statutory authority [*] in June.

https://www.scotusblog.com/2024/06/supreme-court-strikes-dow...

[*] - edited reason after rereading; this wasn’t 2nd amendment, but ATF misinterpretation of the law

Specifically in the case of ar-15 pattern firearms, having the lower be "the firearm" is hilarious. the lower is a low precision, low pressure part. it is actually one of the easiest parts of the firearm to make. and because the lower is the controlled part, every other part, the ones that are hard to make, are readily available.

Problem is: you’d still be stuck with a Hisense TV. They got planned obsolescence built in, most of their TVs power supplies go out after only 4 years or even less.

Amazon set a precedent with Kindle 3G keyboard edition many years ago; it had free worldwide cellular access for buying books and had an experimental web browser good enough for webmail. I never thought it was free from the carriers, I assume the bill went to Amazon.

If Vizio can’t arrange that alone, they could pool together many manufacturers and devices, offer the phone companies a copy of the data, or wait until the cost drops low enough.

The link simply states that they make a lot of money from the malware on TVs, something I'm not disputing. I am disputing that if I would buy a TV burn it without ever turning it on they manufacturer would lose money. In essence: The ads are simply pure profit on top of the TV sale.

The lower is the serialized part, and is regulated in isolation as a firearm in every instance I am aware of (but I am not familiar with California gun laws specifically).

Unless a CA-licensed attorney knowledgeable in California gun laws and ATF regulations specifically told you that a particular CA law applying to "semiautomatic firearms" does not apply to your AR-15 lower in isolation, do not listen to random internet comments about it especially when they begin with "I believe." Regardless of where you fall on the issue politically or ideologically, it's an objective fact that California's government is hostile toward its citizens possessing and bearing firearms, and being fuzzy on what is or is not a felony is a risky proposition.

If you're wrong, best case scenario you will lose all your guns, worst case you will end up in federal prison.

Just order a standard, add infested one, and a basic chinese board for it. Sellers will flash them for your panel and all. It can't any more basic than that.

You mean import tax? Then the solution is simple: assemble a dummy device from the components, pay the lower import duties, and then disassemble it and sell the parts. This is called tariff engineering.

Even the high end $3,000, $4,000+ TVs have ads. Show me a mainstream TV that doesn't.

HDMI CEC v1.3 specification, page 38: "Device Menu Control"

The data required to exfiltrate the telemetry and serve ads is vastly smaller than that used by the average iPhone.

CA regulates magazines and pistol grips (in combination with other parts) which attach to the lower receiver. Not sure you are fully correct in saying the lower is not a semiautomatic firearm. While the lower by itself is clearly not a complete and functional firearm, and not capable of firing without an upper, the sear/disconnector, which determines semi/full auto is part of the lower.

And they are invariably inferior to the latest models of higher end consumer TVs for movies and gaming. Older panels, poorer contrast ratio, if they even support HDR or VRR. For even partial feature parity they will be thousands more in cost. Outdoor and digital signage panels are great for their intended purpose only.

Show me the commercial equivalent to the LG G4.

And even these commercial TVs may be “dumber” but they still have firmware and it can still have some of the same nuisances. Meanwhile you can opt out of most shit on the smart TV and just not leave it connected.

But for now you can still rip the modem and antenna, like what I am forced to do with my car.

If you buy a model that's one or two years old, they aren't actually that much. E.g. My company paid €700 for a 55" Samsung digital signage display.

I'm not sure about using it as a TV (no speakers, matte display), but as a monitor it looks really nice.

The higher cost is because the hardware is designed to run for years 24/7, and the compute hardware is (a little bit) more powerful than regular TVs.

I am certainly not suggesting anyone rely on me for legal advice, to be clear.

But no, my understanding in CA is unlike the Feds, California does not have the concept of constructive possession as it applies to assault weapons. As such, separated parts cannot constitute a CA AW, unless the lower is already registered as such, or said lower is on the list of named CA AWs.

It is technically not an assault weapon in that configuration; however, depending on the DA, they may still come after you under PC 12280(a), stating that you are attempting to possess an assault weapon. The sticking point for them is showing intent, but they have convicted on possession and research of how to assemble an assault weapon.

They certainly could charge someone, and maybe even win; I’m not suggesting anyone rely on this as a defense, but that is what the law states. Short of any other aggravated reasons to charge you, it’s unlikely a DA would have any interest.

Are you claiming that the delta is entirely covered by the fees payed to manufacturers to add apps, ads, etc?

Why did you do the software update at all?

My understanding is Amazon paid an enormous amount for that!

A problem, as I understand it, is that if you let all the customers with high disposable income pay extra to avoid ads, you're left with a group of lower income customers who are less valuable to advertisers.

Manufacturers would rather get $15 for every TV than only $15 for some TVs. If they were to let you pay your way out, you'd have to pay significantly more in order to subsidize the people who won't pay.

Yes, how else would it be covered?

It's particularly stupid when you realize a sufficiently motivated person can in fact just fire an upper. I have no idea where the bolt is going to wind up in this, but it will in fact shoot a bullet out the other end of the barrel

That's the federal ban. The comment is about California law

By increased margins? Common enough when your target market is not consumer.

I didn’t say it wasn’t a firearm.

Simple. Buy TV, never connect to wifi. Plug in Apple TV. Never worry about ads or anything.

Because sometimes it's necessary to make sure basic features work correctly, I remember my LG Oled didn't work with 4K 120Hz sources until LG released a firmware update for it.

Most TV manufacturers still supply firmware updates as a separate download for installing from a USB drive. I just checked Sony's site for a model that sounds like yours, and they do offer this.

I love this idea; it really does seem like us geeks need to come to the rescue here.

Then the equivalent business tvs with no apps wouldn’t be thousands of dollars more.

Nah, that's upside down. Consumers buy what they can afford. Wages are low, but companies still want to sell TVs. Advertising to the rescue! And so, as ever, good ol' capitalism pushes quality down while telling the consumer "you've never had it so good!"

>it's an objective fact that California's government is hostile toward it's citizens possessing and bearing firearms

A state puts restrictions on semi-automatic weapons (one model which has been used to kill hundreds or thousands of people in random shootings) and here it's described as "being hostile to people possessing firearms". For most non-americans (which is my case) this will always sounds so strange

>Show me the commercial equivalent to the LG G4.

I am not an expert, but this[0] looks like a commercial equivalent. And on my searches seems to be less expensive (although both are quite expensive)

[0]https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16889356840

You must have pasted the wrong link, or are yanking my chain.

(SAMSUNG 65-Inch Class OLED 4K S95B Series Quantum HDR TV(QN65S95BAFXZA, 2022 Model)

Nothing about this is aimed towards commercial:

https://www.samsung.com/latin_en/tvs/oled-tv/s95b-65-inch-ol...

That is a 2.5 year old model (out of stock on Newegg), standard high end consumer smart TV, not sure why you think otherwise:

“ Amazon Alexa Compatible / Bixby Compatible / DLNA / Dolby Atmos / FreeSync (AMD Adaptive Sync) / Google Assistant Compatible / High Dynamic Range (HDR) / Mountable / Samsung SmartThings Compatible

SMART TV WITH MULTIPLE VOICE ASSISTANTS: This TV comes with your favorite voice assistants built-in and ready to help. Choose from Bixby, Amazon Alexa, or Google Assistant”

It’s less expensive than a G4 because it’s is generations older than a G4. Samsung is now on the S95D.

Yes, I did paste the wrong link. Sorry about that. I meant to paste this one[0] However, there are other options available with oled, AI upscaling, etc. They are sold as "business displays" or similar, and can be expensive, but is exactly what a lot of people want instead of a "smart" TV.

[0]https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=QB65R

This is backwards, increased margin would allow exactly that without all of it being covered by increased cogs.

Ok, an edge lit LCD with "4000:1" contrast, 350 nit, is nowhere in the ballpark of a QD-OLED display. This isn’t even SotA for LCDs. This has no HDR display capability, no VRR. PQ wise it will be smoked by even some $300 Black Friday specials. It runs the same Tizen OS as the consumer TVs, and will still be annoying, just maybe not in all the same ways. This isn’t even close (and anything running Tizen is arguably not completely "dumb") and is precisely what I’m saying. If there really is something comparable, then why didn't you just link to that?

On the other hand it won’t burn in, just color shift. It’s built for a different purpose (digital signage), neither movies/entertainment or gaming.

I maintain there’s a very small consumer market for those willing to forgo a decade (but even 1 or 2) of flat panel advancements just to not leave WiFi or Ethernet off. But good luck to anyone who tries.

LG used to make a commercial HDR OLED large format in one size (65 inch), it's was $20k, now $10k for new old stock. Still not as bright as newer consumer displays (it's 3 gens behind), therefore not great for HDR, and no VRR. It's just not a market.

What about the data for a 4g watch?

soundbars suck too.

All of them have wireless subwoofers, which require wifi or bluetooth.

Really, why can't they do cables or spdif?

I literally only use my smart tv with external devices. There’s no TV ads I see.

Yeah, let's keep rewarding the companies that are profiting from weaponizing consumer electronics by buying from them, instead of promoting an alternative that offers something that actually is what people want.

Everything sucks where the hardware is a loss leader and just good enough to perform its function and the software is developed as a trojan horse for the actual revenue generating business. Soundbars, "smart" speakers, printers...

It's not really rewarding the company if they are subsidizing the price of the TV by selling people's information through the "smart" part of the TV, when you don't participate in the "smart" part of it. You got a cheaper TV, didn't hand over any of your info, so the company loses money on the "smart" TV.

Pretty sure you need a special cable that carries ethernet, as well as a device at the other end that supplies ethernet to HDMI, so you have to really want to let your "smart" tv to have access to the internet.

It's relative. Think of the US as a collection of small countries, comparable to the EU, and it's a little easier to understand.

I know relatively little about European gun laws, but I imagine that the gun laws in Romania and the Czech Republic are quite different, and that the Czech would argue Romania is "hostile toward it's citizens possessing and bearing firearms."

Texas would argue California is. California would argue the UK is.

The manufacturer is not losing money on the device. Google/Amazon are paying them to get their spyware crap on the device.

> You got a cheaper TV, didn't hand over any of your info...

But you are still enabling Surveillance Capitalism. Even if you think you personal data is safe, the system still exploits the majority of the consumer market.

Nobody is being rewarded when I don't connect the subsidised "smart" TV to the internet.

There are other kinds of very cheap TVs with forced ads and tracking that require an internet connection to function at all, but those are a whole other story entierly, and we aren't talking about those here.

> last I heard the ATF was tracking those down as an NFA violation.

I was responding to this portion of the comment, where they referred to the ATF and NFA - a federal agency and law.

I was updating them that was no longer true as of a few months ago.

The manufacturer is being rewarded. You just bought a TV from them. They are making money anyway. The revenue from the data selling is just extra.

You are assuming that consumer electronic devices are sold at cost and not at whatever markup that the manufactuer thinks they can get away with.

You do not get to decide because privacy concious options are simply not available at the high end. You'd also need to significantly compromise on quality.

Cool bro. How does this relate to the discussion about whether smart TVs are sold below cost though?

Good to know but don't expect this to completely protect you from ads since they could be baked into the new firmware.

Ideally you do not need to tweak the image. All I need is a calibrated display, the rest is handled by my computer producing the input.

Then the TV will just display a generic error telling you to get it serviced and refuse to work.

This really irks me. Even if not connected to the internet, it still has whatever android bloat OS on it. Ageing android (or any other) are just intolerable even when they haven't completely rotted. It will fail. A family member let us borrow their second smart TV, a Samsung, and it would not function, internet or not. It would crash on turning it on, and even if it didn't crash it took six or seven minutes to get from standby to 'actually displaying HDMI 1' if it didn't crash. A quarter of the time crashed so bad on turning it on that the firmware had to be reflashed. I gave it back. Don't get me started on all the weird android alzheimers bullshit like trying to set the time (so the old fashioned EPG would work) would set the time to literally anything but what was input and did so in a totally random and unpredictable pattern meaning it couldn't just be worked around.

I was grateful to find a totally dumb 4K 48" TV that had the same firmware as the decade (at minimum) old 1080i 23" TV it was replacing. Its image quality would offend TV nerds but I will never ever own a smart TV and they don't really make actually dumb TVs any more. You could not pay me to use a decade old android or tv os device, let alone the considerably younger TV we borrowed. Absolutely not.

Which is of course why cahble TV, which consumers chose as an ad-free alternative to over the air TV, does not have ads.

And it's also why premium streaming, which consumers chose as an ad-free alternative over cable TV, does not have ads.

You can't buy your way out of ads because paying just means the advertisers have extra incentive to put shit in front of your eyes.

> > In CA, for example, owning an AR15 with certain features is illegal. But separate the upper from the lower, and ... [it's] no longer illegal.

This is not accurate unless I'm misunderstanding your intent--absolutely possible, which is why I am responding over a day later :)

The lower is the firearm, and if it has CA-illegal features on it, it will remain illegal.

If you're referring to things like a threaded barrel, or a vertical foregrip (no idea if these are actually illegal in CA, just examples), or other things that are attached to the upper, when they're separated those things are no longer attached to a firearm because they're attached to the upper, which is no longer a firearm when it's separated.

This isn't a loophole, this is a natural consequence of the fact that if you take a firearm and separate it into two pieces, at most one of those things can legally be a firearm - you can't turn one firearm into two firearms by breaking it in half.

That's a win-win-win in my book. I get a cheap device, manufacturer sells a device, evil data collection companies don't get my data. The rest of you can connect your tv to the internet and have creeps do stuff with your data, I really don't care what you do. And really, why should anyone be worried that some company knows you watch family feud instead of the price is right.

Do you watch TV through a computer? But also, how does that make the Apple TV able to tweak the image?

Is there an Apple TV app for that? Or do you expect Apple to bake this into tvOS?

I wouldn't. What I was picturing is that the TV has buttons on its frame (like your monitor). You can use those to change sources, tweak the image and any other simple "setting" the tv might have. Those are infrequent enough operations that I don't mind standing up and walking to the TV to do it.

Of course if it did come with a simple remote that'd be fine too. I'm not against a remote.

Thanks for the thoughtful response! Yes, I think a misunderstanding and/or I was unclear.

I never intended to make the claim that separating the upper and lower somehow makes neither a firearm. That was not my intent at all. Of course the lower is still a firearm, still needs to be serialized, legal, etc.

There are also some named firearms in the Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act of 1989 and those would be illegal no matter what, broken apart or not. Obviously naming specific weapons was idiotic and not going to last a very long time, since keeping the list up to date was impossible, so...

In 1999, the act was amended (P.C. 35015), and named specific features that would make a firearm an assault weapon. The amendment states that a semiautomatic, center-fire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine, and any of the features below, is deemed an assault weapon:

* a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon. * a thumbhole stock. * a folding or telescoping stock. * a grenade launcher or flare launcher. * a flash suppressor. * a forward pistol grip.

All of which are pretty clearly target AR and AR-like firearms.

Now, to be specific about what I was trying to say: California does not have the concept of constructive possession, unlike the federal government, as applied to assault weapons. As such, separated parts cannot constitute a CA assault weapon, unless the lower is already registered as such, or said lower is on the list of named CA assault weapons. If it is disassembled, it is considered to be weapon parts, and not the actual weapon itself.

However, depending on the DA, they may still come after you under P.C. 12280(a), stating that you are attempting to possess an assault weapon. The sticking point for them is showing intent, but they have convicted on possession and research of how to assemble an assault weapon in the past.

> The rest of you can connect your TV to the internet and have creeps do stuff with your data,

Your data is still getting collected, just not through the TV.

> I really don't care what you do.

What if you were told that ad companies are still going to be able to target you just by collecting data from others like you?

What if you were told that I've worked for those ad companies, I know all the tricks they use, and I know extremely well how they target me - and I'm still not worried about buying a "smart" TV and using it while not connecting it to the internet.

> I've worked for those ad companies

Well, then I definitely don't trust your moral compass and this whole discussion is pointless.