> I don't ever want to have to fight so hard for a
PEP and find that so many people despise my decisions.
Leading a large open source project must be terrible in this age of constant outrage :-(
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Also reminds me of that dev (who I can't seem to search up) who had their email printed as part of a open-source software license in a car manual and would get ridiculous email from people who had car trouble.
> Escalate? Oh how I wish I had someone to escalate to. - rasmus@php.net
> After carefully reviewing this bug report with our board of directors on 4chan, we have come to the conclusion that your "rusty C skills" should be enough to fix the issue. I would therefore like to remind you that rasmus@php.net is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasmus_lerdorf
https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2016/11/14/i-have-toyota-corola/
Yeah, tough. Fix your code
That's the attitude some maintainers need in cutting unreasonable requests.
That, I think, was the most awesome "customer support" experience of my life. I did make a point of being polite about it, however, which I consider a ground rule for dealing with people, especially if I want something from them.
But it was so awesome to post to a random usenet group about a driver problem and have the person who wrote the driver personally approach you for details. You don't get that with Windows, for sure. ;-)
“A word aptly spoken is like apples of gold in settings of silver.” —Proverbs
It goes both ways. All too often people promote their new library on HN and Reddit, wait until a bunch of people are using it as a dependency, and then abandon it without even telling anyone whether or not it’s abandoned.
It escapes me now _why_ I emailed him. I certainly had no idea the gravity of who he was (for those also unaware, he is perhaps most famous for creating the Build engine used in games like Duke Nukem 3D). I believe I was under the false assumption at the time that the Build engine was a raycaster (I hadn't played Duke Nukem), and I probably found a personal page of his about the Build engine while trying to solve my problem.
Either way, young me emailed Ken Silverman like it was nothing. He responded! He corrected me about the Build engine, but also proceeded to help describe how to render floors in a raycasting engine.
It still took me awhile more to get the hang of the math, and I believe a few more emails back and forth with him. I feel bad now, knowing now who he was. But I appreciated his help immensely. I think I wrote 3 or 4 more ray casting and tracing engines back then. Some were rudimentary, one was a raycaster but allowed arbitrary 2D level geometry (and even used some tricks to put "holes" in walls to cheat windows and have multiple heights). One was for a code golf competition. And one was _super_ efficient; the math and levels were set up such that 90% of the logic was just binary math rather then having to do the usual multiplications, divisions, and square roots. They're a lot of fun to make and I learned a lot.
Ken, if you ever stumble on this comment, thank you!
My experience of trying to get help from Microsoft on the other hand is, well let's just say not quite so impressive; they kept me on hold for 45 minutes once and never did solve my problem.
I dont want to know, how much of core infrastructure is resting on the shoulder of overworked and burned out BDFL. This isnt a ego complex in most cases, but the knowledge that without someone with their commitment working at the project it will crumble.
It's a combination of your choice to pick PHP and their choice to fix the languages warts colliding.
It may even have been a reasonable choice for reasons of time to market, hiring, and other business related factors. But the conflict in this thread highlighted that whoever chose PHP in the beginning did not factor in this hidden cost when he made his choice. The results of that lack of information were predictable.
Thank god I don't have access to those emails anymore so I don't have to endure the cringe.
To make myself feel better, I posit that that kind of youthful arrogance is at the origin of many innovations done by youngsters that didn't know better.
Guess they went out of business before they could typecast all these nasty empty strings.
This kind of thing probably doesn't even scale with itself, since there are only so many acrobatics your code can go through before no one can even understand why it's doing something, let alone add new workarounds. So the first K broken programs get special treatment, and the others face a much higher bar to get the same treatment.
But focusing on PHP is rubbish - you can look at any language and find questionable choices. The moment where we need frameworks to make the warts go away - that's worrying. Same thing with JS really
I recently submitted a bug report to a fairly niche OSS package that I use, and within a few hours the author replied (on GitHub) something like "oh wow, yeah that's an edge case but I definitely want to fix it, can you send me the test data you used..." and once I gave him the test data, he had it fixed in two hours and now anybody who grabs the source won't have to deal with that bug.
It was great, and even though I didn't do anything except write up a bug ticket properly (the same way I'd expect anyone on my team at work to do it), the software is a little better now.
I'm really sorry you ran into this issue. To make things better,
I've given you a full refund.Why is what amounts to a clear project management failure the problem of some open source developer who has published their personal pet project?
If dependencies aren't reviewed before being used, how does such organization handle software license compliance (whether OSS or proprietary), for example?
A clear cut case of trying to shift blame for own failings onto an unpaid volunteer that has helped to save the commercial developer time and money, IMO.
Some critical assumptions:
- a more senior dev is available
- has time
- understand the system well enough to judge the impact
- is actually a better developer than the junior (in spite of being older / in the game longer)
> Why is what amounts to a clear project management failure the problem of some open source developer who has published their personal pet project?
It isn't, that was the point.
> If dependencies aren't reviewed before being used, how does such organization handle software license compliance (whether OSS or proprietary), for example?
Some critical assumptions:
- organizations keep a close eye on developers incorporating code under various licenses
- the people keeping an eye on that are qualified to make the calls
- the resources to keep an eye on this are available
> A clear cut case of trying to shift blame for own failings onto an unpaid volunteer that has helped to save the commercial developer time and money, IMO.
Sure. But that doesn't mean these things don't happen just about everywhere, many times per day.
It is rare to find a company where all of the assumptions labelled above are true all the time. And that's where the problem lies.
It's a clear case of there being no difference between theory and practice in theory but in practice there is, and rather a lot of it. Everybody knows in theory how software should be developed, but in practice hardly anybody actually does it that way. They're either out of time, options or qualifications (or all three) and they will do the job anyway.
That doesn't excuse it, but it does help you to understand it.
ahahaha
I think the PHP team changing the return value of a function without putting anything in a changelog is a Very Bad Idea and a dev. should be pretty upset about that. Saying that the main dev. is doing this work as a charitable thing is fairly misleading as well.
Buuuuut, I also think passing an unitialized value like that is already a bug in this context given the type of software being created. I'd rather see, "NULL" found wherever than know that it was magically changed to 0 (like they would prefer). I know the dev. said that this is just a formatting thing, but I'll wager they're using formatted numbers for some sort of calculation (inadvertently or not).
Whatever is going on, I hope there was a huge code review and a massive QA effort ( which I also doubt happened), because this is a textbook example of tech debt and the loan shark has come a-knockin'.
Just a few years later my team had to contact them for a BSOD that kept happening after one of their patches. We were put off for about a week before throwing our hands up on it.
Because they're already the senior. CEO said it shouldn't be that hard, and besides, they only wanted to pay $40K/yr.
But I get where you're coming from. It's even worse on Steam, where developers will actually collect money during the "early access" phase and then walk away once a (closed-source) tech demo is half-complete.
I’m not saying anyone should be obligated to do free work. This issue is that most people don’t feel comfortable publishing a public fork without the blessing of the creator, or at least knowing the creator no longer intends to work on the project in the near future. So you end up with these situations where there are thousands of people running production systems with unmerged security patches because the creator can’t be bothered to spend 30 seconds to write a one sentence reply to an email.
Short of being in a coma, I consider that toxic behavior.
And just to be clear I’m taking about situations where there are lots of open PRs but no signs of life for months or years on end, not situations where the creator just went on vacation for a few weeks.
There's a fundamental quandary in language design: accessibility to novice programmers and suitability for serious work are in opposition. Novices, being novices, are unable to appreciate this problem.
People from Fedora IRC channel helped me live debug the code over irc and we found the bug and were able to get code to compile and my raid controller working. Was an awesome experience.
My advice to mentees is that if installing a package to achieve x saves (a significant amount of) time/money that outweighs the risks to self/company or has value added by means of product maturity or domain expertise, then by all means do not roll your own crypto, web framework, db connector or machine learning library. But if one is going to introduce dependencies on things as trivial as leftpad or someone's Show HN single-pass weekend hackathon proof-of-concept, they will soon learn why we don't bring toys to work.
The sad part is: I lost the email in a transition from one machine/set of floppy disk backups to another.
His email address takes a very short time to find and he's on Facebook. Just a suggestion: why not send a note and thank him for real? You might make his afternoon a little brighter.
(I'm awful about thank you notes and if you knew me you'd be within your rights to call me a hypocrite, but still!)