←back to thread

2024 points randlet | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.216s | source
Show context
bla2 ◴[] No.17515883[source]
> I don't ever want to have to fight so hard for a PEP and find that so many people despise my decisions.

Leading a large open source project must be terrible in this age of constant outrage :-(

replies(9): >>17515955 #>>17515972 #>>17516193 #>>17516427 #>>17516776 #>>17516884 #>>17517282 #>>17517716 #>>17517821 #
sjm-lbm ◴[] No.17515955[source]
It's PHP and not Python, but every time I read something like this from a major open source figure, I always think of this old PHP mailing list thread:

https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=50696

replies(8): >>17516108 #>>17516130 #>>17516216 #>>17516240 #>>17516461 #>>17516708 #>>17516836 #>>17517666 #
Y_Y ◴[] No.17516108[source]
That's a good read. I feel like the "customer is always right" mentality does quite a bit of harm to OSS support.

Also reminds me of that dev (who I can't seem to search up) who had their email printed as part of a open-source software license in a car manual and would get ridiculous email from people who had car trouble.

replies(6): >>17516199 #>>17516206 #>>17516230 #>>17516371 #>>17516964 #>>17517308 #
Alex3917 ◴[] No.17516964[source]
> "customer is always right" mentality does quite a bit of harm to OSS support.

It goes both ways. All too often people promote their new library on HN and Reddit, wait until a bunch of people are using it as a dependency, and then abandon it without even telling anyone whether or not it’s abandoned.

replies(2): >>17517068 #>>17517252 #
jstarfish ◴[] No.17517068[source]
Not using toy libraries for production systems is a lesson every young developer learns early on in their career.
replies(3): >>17517183 #>>17517245 #>>17517678 #
jacquesm ◴[] No.17517183[source]
Fortunately every young developer is also schooled extensively in telling toy libraries apart from serious ones.
replies(3): >>17517708 #>>17517858 #>>17519660 #
1. janoc ◴[] No.17517708[source]
And why isn't the young developer being mentored by someone more senior before introducing a new dependency into a business critical system?

Why is what amounts to a clear project management failure the problem of some open source developer who has published their personal pet project?

If dependencies aren't reviewed before being used, how does such organization handle software license compliance (whether OSS or proprietary), for example?

A clear cut case of trying to shift blame for own failings onto an unpaid volunteer that has helped to save the commercial developer time and money, IMO.

replies(2): >>17517787 #>>17518188 #
2. jacquesm ◴[] No.17517787[source]
> And why isn't the young developer being mentored by someone more senior before introducing a new dependency into a business critical system?

Some critical assumptions:

- a more senior dev is available

- has time

- understand the system well enough to judge the impact

- is actually a better developer than the junior (in spite of being older / in the game longer)

> Why is what amounts to a clear project management failure the problem of some open source developer who has published their personal pet project?

It isn't, that was the point.

> If dependencies aren't reviewed before being used, how does such organization handle software license compliance (whether OSS or proprietary), for example?

Some critical assumptions:

- organizations keep a close eye on developers incorporating code under various licenses

- the people keeping an eye on that are qualified to make the calls

- the resources to keep an eye on this are available

> A clear cut case of trying to shift blame for own failings onto an unpaid volunteer that has helped to save the commercial developer time and money, IMO.

Sure. But that doesn't mean these things don't happen just about everywhere, many times per day.

It is rare to find a company where all of the assumptions labelled above are true all the time. And that's where the problem lies.

It's a clear case of there being no difference between theory and practice in theory but in practice there is, and rather a lot of it. Everybody knows in theory how software should be developed, but in practice hardly anybody actually does it that way. They're either out of time, options or qualifications (or all three) and they will do the job anyway.

That doesn't excuse it, but it does help you to understand it.

3. rhizome ◴[] No.17518188[source]
And why isn't the young developer being mentored by someone more senior before introducing a new dependency into a business critical system?

Because they're already the senior. CEO said it shouldn't be that hard, and besides, they only wanted to pay $40K/yr.