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US airlines are pushing to remove protections for passengers and add more fees

(www.travelandtourworld.com)
663 points duxup | 44 comments | 24 Sep 25 12:30 UTC | HN request time: 1.437s | source | bottom
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bsimpson ◴[24 Sep 25 13:24 UTC] No.45359986[source]▶
I'd be curious to see how the all-in price of airline tickets has evolved in recent decades. It feels like it's now commonplace to have hundreds of dollars in additional fees for things like legroom. That means a cheap ticket is a midrange ticket and a midrange ticket can end up being quite expensive unless you fall for the "we get to strap you behind the bathroom with only the clothes on your back" Saver ticket.

It also means that you're often still out actual money if you use award miles.

replies(2): >>45360069 #>>45360165 #
1. izacus ◴[24 Sep 25 13:30 UTC] No.45360069[source]▶
Hundreds of dollars for legroom? Are you... sure? For what kind of flights?
replies(7): >>45360143 #>>45360182 #>>45360186 #>>45360202 #>>45360211 #>>45360369 #>>45362657 #
2. ghaff ◴[24 Sep 25 13:35 UTC] No.45360143[source]▶
I'm most familiar with United. Economy Plus (which is mostly about a bit more legroom) does have a modest premium absent sufficient status that gets you it for free. But Premium Economy that gives you somewhat wider seats as well as legroom gets into the hundreds of dollars. International business has lots of benefits including legroom and lie flat seating but that usually gets into the thousands.
replies(2): >>45360376 #>>45361444 #
3. runako ◴[24 Sep 25 13:38 UTC] No.45360182[source]▶
In a search just now, Delta Main r/t from ATL-LAX is $337. Delta Comfort on the same flight is $727. (Yes, it's more than 2x the price.) Obviously Comfort boards earlier, but it's not unreasonable to attribute most of the fare differential to the legroom.

Checked bags are also extra for either seat.

replies(4): >>45360339 #>>45363213 #>>45368670 #>>45377215 #
4. tclancy ◴[24 Sep 25 13:38 UTC] No.45360186[source]▶
US flights (99% of what I have experienced) definitely can get into three figures for anything other than "middle seat, way back". They know there's at least a built-in audience of taller people who will spring for legroom on any flight over an hour. And now that I am old and tall, an aisle seat and legroom are incredibly valuable to me (don't tell 'em, ok?).
replies(1): >>45360356 #
5. mjparrott ◴[24 Sep 25 13:39 UTC] No.45360202[source]▶
One example: Chicago to New York on United, direct flight that is ~2.5 hours. $209 for economy and $381 for Economy Plus. This is a $172 difference.
replies(2): >>45360304 #>>45360536 #
6. joshstrange ◴[24 Sep 25 13:40 UTC] No.45360211[source]▶
Yes, as a 6' 2" person, I can assure you that a single leg of a flight will be less that $100 but round trip and multiple legs moves it to $200+ very easily.
7. hopelite ◴[24 Sep 25 13:46 UTC] No.45360304[source]▶
Maybe karma for short jokes?

Next up, $200 for head-room. You didn't think you could fly keeping your head upright for free, did you?

replies(1): >>45368524 #
8. onionisafruit ◴[24 Sep 25 13:48 UTC] No.45360339[source]▶
Don’t forget they give you all the 10¢ bags of sun chips you can eat.
replies(1): >>45364829 #
9. Y_Y ◴[24 Sep 25 13:49 UTC] No.45360356[source]▶
Oddly there is no such premium for wide people. I understand (somewhat) price discriminating based on the quantity of space required by the passenger (for comfort or from physical necessity), but then why does this apply to one dimension and not the other.

I'm not even talking about pay-by-weight as was famously tried between pacific islands. Nobody wants to have someone spilling over the armrest into their seat, and I'm sure plenty of people who are wider than the seat would like to fit without going first class. I'm not even so unusually sized, but cannot sit in the aisle without being hit by every person and trolley passing by.

replies(2): >>45360699 #>>45362531 #
10. onionisafruit ◴[24 Sep 25 13:50 UTC] No.45360369[source]▶
The point of the comment is it’s hard to be sure because the pricing is anything but clear.
11. makeitdouble ◴[24 Sep 25 13:50 UTC] No.45360376[source]▶
Nothing should be allowed to be called "Premium Economy"
replies(2): >>45360498 #>>45360810 #
12. ghaff ◴[24 Sep 25 13:58 UTC] No.45360498{3}[source]▶
Eh, they already had economy plus. Premium economy is basically traditional domestic business class on widebody international flights that have lie-flat business (Polaris) seating as well. Honestly, putting it in the economy bucket in contrast to Polaris seems pretty honest in the scheme of things.
13. sroussey ◴[24 Sep 25 14:00 UTC] No.45360536[source]▶
And its even more for first class!
replies(1): >>45360934 #
14. jdlshore ◴[24 Sep 25 14:13 UTC] No.45360699{3}[source]▶
Most airlines require very wide people to buy an extra seat. The requirement is that they have to be able to lower the armrest.
replies(1): >>45377322 #
15. whatshisface ◴[24 Sep 25 14:19 UTC] No.45360810{3}[source]▶
Premium doesn't have to mean "elite," it might also refer to a risk premium or any situation where a buyer has to pay extra. ;)
16. showerst ◴[24 Sep 25 14:28 UTC] No.45360934{3}[source]▶
Sure, but everyone agrees that first class is full of perks. “People taller than 6’1 can sit here without being in pain” shouldn’t be a multi-hundred dollar up charge.
replies(2): >>45361326 #>>45361989 #
17. ◴[24 Sep 25 14:58 UTC] No.45361326{4}[source]▶
18. matwood ◴[24 Sep 25 15:07 UTC] No.45361444[source]▶
EP is just economy with slightly more leg room. PE is closer to business than EP. The food is upgraded along with the service. The seats are more recliner like and you generally have more room. Additionally, the PE seats are often the quickest to deplane if that's important. I can also work in PE seat, whereas EP not so much.

The problem with PE is that it's often not that great of a deal. Unless it's a super busy route, you can usually keep shopping for an upgrade and just go all the way to lay flat business. Side note, when going business class, understand that not all plane layouts and seats are the same. Check seat guru.

Source - I fly back and forth to the EU quite a bit.

replies(2): >>45361646 #>>45363576 #
19. ghaff ◴[24 Sep 25 15:22 UTC] No.45361646{3}[source]▶
I agree with all that. The food still isn't great. And the seat still isn't great for a red-eye relative to business. I wouldn't generally work on a plane anyway. I've been in PE--don't remember the circumstances--but as I recall didn't think it was anything special for the cost.
replies(1): >>45362523 #
20. ◴[24 Sep 25 15:46 UTC] No.45361989{4}[source]▶
21. matwood ◴[24 Sep 25 16:20 UTC] No.45362523{4}[source]▶
Your final point is exactly it. PE is better, but the cost difference is generally too high above EP. At that point I tend to just go BC.

To your other points, at the end of the day, it's an airplane. And since I'm usually flying US airlines, even business class isn't that special outside of laying flat. I do fly back and forth to the EU enough though, that being able to work for 4ish hours is pretty useful.

replies(2): >>45363110 #>>45364507 #
22. toast0 ◴[24 Sep 25 16:20 UTC] No.45362531{3}[source]▶
There's rules for passengers and airlines... but enforcement is limited, because who wants to slow down boarding by checking.

And compliance is hard for passengers, because you have to call in to book the special case, and who wants to call in?

But theoretically, a passenger that will encroach on an adjacent seat can pay for the extra seat (I don't know if they need to also pay for seat assignment to get two seats next to each other), and then if the flight doesn't actually sell out, the extra seat fee is refundable. But when you actually board, people will see the 'empty' seat and try to sit in it, even though you paid for it. Etc.

23. mkipper ◴[24 Sep 25 16:29 UTC] No.45362657[source]▶
I'm 6'6" and I basically treat an exit row upgrade as non-negotiable. It's just a fundamental cost of long haul travel for me if I can't swing premium economy or business class.

To get some extra legroom, I paid (round trip, in CAD) $250 for a trip to Dublin this year and $320 for a trip to Hong Kong in 2023. That's a lot of money, but it was <50% of the cost to upgrade to premium economy and <20% of the cost to upgrade to business class.

This used to be much cheaper. I remember paying ~$100 for similar upgrades a decade ago, but airlines got wise to this at some point and jacked the prices way up.

replies(1): >>45364176 #
24. ghaff ◴[24 Sep 25 17:03 UTC] No.45363110{5}[source]▶
>it's an airplane

Yeah. For me, $5K or whatever is still a decent amount and, even if you just put it in the vacation pile, that's a decent amount for meals and other experiences vs. being a bit more comfortable over a 10 hour (or whatever) flight.

replies(1): >>45363892 #
25. OkayPhysicist ◴[24 Sep 25 17:11 UTC] No.45363213[source]▶
I've never understood why boarding early is considered a premium worth paying for (for normal flights with assigned seating). Planes are never as comfortable as whatever I have access to in the airport, whether that's hanging out in the lounge or sipping a drink at a restaurant, or just stretching my legs walking around the airport.
replies(1): >>45364015 #
26. chrisbolt ◴[24 Sep 25 17:40 UTC] No.45363576{3}[source]▶
Seatguru hasn't been updated in ages, use https://www.aerolopa.com instead
replies(2): >>45364697 #>>45370729 #
27. matwood ◴[24 Sep 25 18:06 UTC] No.45363892{6}[source]▶
My trick is that I always just buy the base economy ticket that can still be upgraded. Then I check for upgrades every couple days. What I found is that prices to move classes will vary wildly as they try to sell all the seats. It also makes it easier to upgrade a single leg - an overnight flight is more important to be lay flat than a daytime flight for example.

The other part of my equation is that I put a 'dollar figure x flight time' that I'm willing to pay to be more comfortable. If I see a price that hits my threshold I upgrade, otherwise not.

28. abawany ◴[24 Sep 25 18:15 UTC] No.45364015{3}[source]▶
When I used to have carry-ons, boarding early ensured that I got room in the overhead bins to place the bag. I now use under-seater bags only and pack light so I no longer care when I get to my seat.
replies(2): >>45365379 #>>45366337 #
29. pimlottc ◴[24 Sep 25 18:25 UTC] No.45364176[source]▶
Ah, for the days of old, when you could just ask nicely at the counter for exit row...
replies(1): >>45364354 #
30. mkipper ◴[24 Sep 25 18:39 UTC] No.45364354{3}[source]▶
This isn't totally dead. I missed a flight last year and got bumped to a flight the next morning on some weird ticket class where I didn't get a seat assignment until the gate. The gate agent was able to give me a bulkhead seat with extra legroom at no cost. And this was with United, not some airline with a shining reputation for customer service.

So you can roll the dice and try to get a premium seat at the gate, but that's not a risk I'm usually willing to take.

31. thfuran ◴[24 Sep 25 18:52 UTC] No.45364507{5}[source]▶
> At that point I tend to just go BC

It sounds to me like their pricing is working as intended and getting an even bigger upcharge.

replies(1): >>45370736 #
32. bsimpson ◴[24 Sep 25 19:09 UTC] No.45364697{4}[source]▶
SG has failed me a lot lately. Thanks for the tip!
33. galaxy_gas ◴[24 Sep 25 19:19 UTC] No.45364829{3}[source]▶
Recently I had received a mini packet of crisps that had four in it.

Four

How is that even worth the packaging cost

34. pavel_lishin ◴[24 Sep 25 20:09 UTC] No.45365379{4}[source]▶
Yep. I've taken several flights in the past few months, and _every time_ by the time my boarding group was called, the staff announced that there was no more overhead bin space, and people would have to check bags.
35. asdff ◴[24 Sep 25 21:44 UTC] No.45366337{4}[source]▶
Then they gate check it which is a perk for me honestly. Now I don't have to schlep a bag anymore.
replies(1): >>45377267 #
36. hopelite ◴[25 Sep 25 02:08 UTC] No.45368524{3}[source]▶
I guess people don’t like jokes? Or do people have chips on their shoulders?

Sad state of affairs

37. bombcar ◴[25 Sep 25 02:31 UTC] No.45368670[source]▶
First gets two 70lb bags and that’s often worth more than the price difference on the ticket.
38. matwood ◴[25 Sep 25 09:08 UTC] No.45370729{4}[source]▶
Thank you!
39. matwood ◴[25 Sep 25 09:09 UTC] No.45370736{6}[source]▶
Maybe, but I’ll just fly economy in that case. The BC prices haven’t really changed as far as I can see on my usual routes.
40. brewdad ◴[25 Sep 25 18:53 UTC] No.45377215[source]▶
Comfort will get you one free alcoholic drink. It's an expensive one however.
41. brewdad ◴[25 Sep 25 18:57 UTC] No.45377267{5}[source]▶
Depends on if you packed wisely (not needing to remove medication or batteries before gate checking). Also depends on how quickly you need to be able to get out of the airport when you arrive.

Lastly, there is always the risk of a lost bag once you no longer have it with you. One fight years ago they forgot to load all of the car seats and gate checked bags that were left at the end of the ramp. We were stuck waiting 90 minutes for the next flight from that destination to arrive since we needed the car seat to drive our child home.

replies(1): >>45391055 #
42. brewdad ◴[25 Sep 25 19:01 UTC] No.45377322{4}[source]▶
Delta is famous for selling that second seat out from under passengers who planned ahead. It shouldn't be legal but apparently is. There is a way to get that second seat permanently linked to your primary one but it involves calling and speaking to an agent. Online purchases won't be protected.
replies(1): >>45436195 #
43. asdff ◴[26 Sep 25 21:09 UTC] No.45391055{6}[source]▶
Rule of traveling: never bank on leaving the airport quickly. Flight can always get delayed and your plans screwed.
44. jdlshore ◴[01 Oct 25 10:35 UTC] No.45436195{5}[source]▶
Well, yes, their site says clearly that you need to talk to an agent to arrange this. (It also says they’ll refund it if the plane isn’t sold out.)