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ChatGPT's enterprise success against Copilot fuels OpenAI/Microsoft rivalry

(www.bloomberg.com)
302 points mastermaq | 36 comments | 24 Jun 25 16:02 UTC | HN request time: 2.382s | source | bottom
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hbn ◴[24 Jun 25 20:32 UTC] No.44370715[source]▶
My work gives us Copilot access since We're a Microsoft Shop™

It's too bad Copilot is by far the dumbest competitor in the space

My favorite interaction so far was when I prompted it with:

    ffmpeg command to convert movie.mov into a reasonably sized mp4
Sure, it's not the most direction instructions, but I tend to give it just enough to get the job done, assuming the LLM knows what its purpose is as an LLM, and it always works with the other chatbots.

Copilot's response:

    I implemented and executed the Python code above to convert movie.mov to a reasonably sized movie.mp4 using ffmpeg.
    
    However, the Python code failed since it was not able to find and access movie.mov file.
    Do you want me to try again or is there anything else that I can help you with?
Note that I didn't cut anything out. It didn't actually provide me any "Python code above"
replies(22): >>44370829 #>>44371002 #>>44371022 #>>44371053 #>>44371065 #>>44371287 #>>44371335 #>>44371358 #>>44371628 #>>44371891 #>>44371914 #>>44371978 #>>44372301 #>>44372892 #>>44373260 #>>44373493 #>>44373864 #>>44374419 #>>44374747 #>>44376761 #>>44377612 #>>44379849 #
hu3 ◴[24 Jun 25 21:02 UTC] No.44371022[source]▶
What model? It got right first try here with your exact prompt using the free GPT-4.1 model.

https://i.imgur.com/toLzwCk.png

ffmpeg -i movie.mov -c:v libx264 -preset medium -crf 23 -c:a aac -b:a 128k movie.mp4

BUT, I have this in my copilot-instructions.md file:

    # Always follow these steps when responding to any request
    1. Please do a round of thinking in <thinking></thinking> tags
    2. Then a round of self-critique in <critique></critique> tags
    3. Then a final round of <thinking>, before responding.
    4. If you need more information, ask for it.
replies(1): >>44371054 #
easton ◴[24 Jun 25 21:05 UTC] No.44371054[source]▶
That's GitHub Copilot, not "microsoft copilot", the bot built into the Microsoft 365 landing site. it doesn't give you model options, for example.
replies(3): >>44371112 #>>44371965 #>>44372474 #
1. clvx ◴[24 Jun 25 21:12 UTC] No.44371112[source]▶
Whoever decided to use the same brand for different experiences should be demoted at minimum. What a way to destroy trust.
replies(8): >>44371158 #>>44371171 #>>44371521 #>>44371620 #>>44371716 #>>44371752 #>>44371783 #>>44373490 #
2. airstrike ◴[24 Jun 25 21:17 UTC] No.44371158[source]▶
I suggest you never visit https://www.office.com/
replies(7): >>44371762 #>>44371935 #>>44372729 #>>44372743 #>>44374715 #>>44375584 #>>44376883 #
3. shermantanktop ◴[24 Jun 25 21:19 UTC] No.44371171[source]▶
Having established brand awareness is a double-edged sword. Preserve it and nobody knows what your new thing is, leverage it and everyone gets totally confused.
4. vdfs ◴[24 Jun 25 22:00 UTC] No.44371521[source]▶
Probably the same one responsible for Office -> 365 naming
replies(1): >>44371766 #
5. ◴[24 Jun 25 22:14 UTC] No.44371620[source]▶
6. ackfoobar ◴[24 Jun 25 22:29 UTC] No.44371716[source]▶
Ha. Microsoft does it all the time.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40419292

7. johnebgd ◴[24 Jun 25 22:34 UTC] No.44371752[source]▶
Microsoft has the worst branding in tech. Microsoft Dynamics is like three different code bases and the Xbox is on its last legs thanks in large part to their naming schemes confusing consumers.
8. DangitBobby ◴[24 Jun 25 22:35 UTC] No.44371762[source]▶
Good lord

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42751726

replies(2): >>44372630 #>>44375423 #
9. DangitBobby ◴[24 Jun 25 22:35 UTC] No.44371766[source]▶
It gets worse

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42751726

10. dcminter ◴[24 Jun 25 22:37 UTC] No.44371783[source]▶
Ah yes, I call this "brandfucking."

IBM used to be a repeat offender. I recall trying to buy the WebSphere (Java) application server for a client and then finding out that IBM had slapped "WebSphere" on all their products including things like¹ MQ Series (a queue) and DB/2 (a database). It took me an hour to figure out the right item and it was an online purchase!

¹I might be misremembering the exact products but it was similarly absurd.

replies(1): >>44372937 #
11. kpil ◴[24 Jun 25 22:55 UTC] No.44371935[source]▶
I got unreasonably triggered by this.
replies(1): >>44372671 #
12. onemoresoop ◴[25 Jun 25 00:47 UTC] No.44372630{3}[source]▶
Microsoft is the worst offender at renaming their products and services with such bad confusing names I don't think it's helping anyone, including Microsoft.
replies(1): >>44372716 #
13. tiluha ◴[25 Jun 25 00:55 UTC] No.44372671{3}[source]▶
You are not alone. It evoked a physical reaction in me
14. airstrike ◴[25 Jun 25 01:03 UTC] No.44372716{4}[source]▶
Imagine literally squandering the brand name "OFFICE"
15. 9cb14c1ec0 ◴[25 Jun 25 01:05 UTC] No.44372729[source]▶
Microsoft Office is one of the most recognizable and valuable brands ever. I'm quite terrible at marketing, and even I can recognize how stupid the rebrand was.
replies(3): >>44372732 #>>44374529 #>>44375291 #
16. airstrike ◴[25 Jun 25 01:05 UTC] No.44372732{3}[source]▶
Literally this. It's one of the strongest names in all of software. It really boggles the mind.
replies(2): >>44374608 #>>44380537 #
17. paradite ◴[25 Jun 25 01:07 UTC] No.44372743[source]▶
"To continue, please install the Microsoft 365 Copilot app"

I got this on mobile. Seems to be pretty apt.

18. SoftTalker ◴[25 Jun 25 01:41 UTC] No.44372937[source]▶
They were sticking “Watson” on all their product names for a while too.
replies(1): >>44374427 #
19. wodenokoto ◴[25 Jun 25 03:50 UTC] No.44373490[source]▶
It’s because in Microsoft terminology a “copilot” is a chatbot or LLM agent.

So you get your copilot for m365 subscription and add copilot studio which you use to create co pilots

replies(1): >>44373936 #
20. tsimionescu ◴[25 Jun 25 05:37 UTC] No.44373936[source]▶
This almost makes sense, but it is certainly not how Microsoft marketing did things. "Microsoft 365 Copilot app" is a suite of productivity apps, most well known for Word, Excel, and PowerPoint. It was formerly known as "Office". Microsoft 365 Copilot app includes Copilot as one of the apps.

This is all information taken from office.com, not some joke or exaggeration...

replies(1): >>44375368 #
21. dcminter ◴[25 Jun 25 07:12 UTC] No.44374427{3}[source]▶
Yep, and they got very overexcited about "VisualAge" for this, that, and the other at one point. "VisualAge for C++ for OS/2" being one of the more coherent examples I guess...
22. OccamsMirror ◴[25 Jun 25 07:26 UTC] No.44374529{3}[source]▶
This is the same company that thought it would be an awesome idea to rename "Microsoft Remote Desktop" to "Windows App" on MacOS.

It wasn't. It's the dumbest name ever.

replies(1): >>44381575 #
23. olyjohn ◴[25 Jun 25 07:39 UTC] No.44374608{4}[source]▶
I thought that renaming Active Directory to Entra ID was bad. Every single tech person who ever touched a Windows server knows what AD is. Then they change to name to something that sounds like it's going to give you an anal probe. What a dumpster fire...
replies(1): >>44377680 #
24. snickerbockers ◴[25 Jun 25 07:57 UTC] No.44374715[source]▶
I keep missing meetings because I foolishly confuse Teams with Teams (classic).
25. TeMPOraL ◴[25 Jun 25 09:31 UTC] No.44375291{3}[source]▶
Maybe they figured their brand was too recognizable and valuable, and had to knee-cap it to restore the cosmic balance of the Great Material Continuum.

EDIT:

There's even a rule of acquisition that could possibly apply here: #239 - Never be afraid to mislabel a product.

26. TeMPOraL ◴[25 Jun 25 09:44 UTC] No.44375368{3}[source]▶
Can confirm - I'm looking at my Android phone now; the "Office Hub" app I knew as "Office" or "Microsoft 365" has, at some point, renamed itself to "M365 Copilot". To make things more obvious and less confusing, it's sitting right next to an app named "Copilot", which is their ChatGPT interface, and as far as I can tell, doesn't do anything copiloty with the Office suite.

Looking at the two side by side in an app manager, I see:

- Copilot - com.microsoft.copilot

- M365 Copilot - com.microsoft.office.officehubrow

And they both have identical icon, except the latter has a tiny black rectangle with tiny white "M365" label tucked in the corner.

replies(1): >>44377199 #
27. aydyn ◴[25 Jun 25 09:52 UTC] No.44375423{3}[source]▶
Next they are going to rename Windows to Microsoft Copilot.
28. darkwater ◴[25 Jun 25 10:20 UTC] No.44375584[source]▶
Oh. My. Fucking. God.

Are they aware that people will struggle to find if Office is installed and that they will keep calling it Office til the end of times (aka the next rebranding that will revert back things) anyway?

29. Lutger ◴[25 Jun 25 13:07 UTC] No.44376883[source]▶
Wait, what? Is this a joke? Did they really rebrand Office to '365 Copilot app'? I feel like I'm missing the plot, they can't be serious.
replies(2): >>44377594 #>>44379096 #
30. jerf ◴[25 Jun 25 13:37 UTC] No.44377199{4}[source]▶
It's amazing to me how too much marketing education and/or experience seems to rot the brain. You learn on like day 4 of Marketing 101 that your brands should be distinct and recognizable, and hopefully some solid tips on how to do that. Cool. Solid. Seems obvious but there's plenty of things that seem obvious in hindsight that education can help you with.

Somewhere between that and a master's degree and 10 years at a prestigious marketing firm, though, apparently there's some lessons about how you should smear all your brands all over each other in some bid to, I presume, transfer any good will one may have had to all of them, but it seems to me that they could stand to send those people back to MKT101 again, because the principle of labeling what your product actually is seems to elude them after Too Much Education.

replies(1): >>44384938 #
31. mike_hearn ◴[25 Jun 25 14:15 UTC] No.44377594{3}[source]▶
Don't worry, the other Office homepage says that it's actually been renamed to just Microsoft 365, not Microsoft 365 Copilot App:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/microsoft-offi...

I got there by going to office.com and clicking Products > Microsoft Office. Lol. Rofl, even. This has made my day. And we all thought calling their third generation console Xbox One was the worst possible branding decision.

32. bradstewart ◴[25 Jun 25 14:24 UTC] No.44377680{5}[source]▶
Thank you for this. As someone who recently had to stumble back into turning a few knobs in (what I thought would be) AD for Office 365 licensing needs, after ~10 years outside of the MS sandbox, I had no earthly idea what Entra was. Until right now.
33. airstrike ◴[25 Jun 25 16:26 UTC] No.44379096{3}[source]▶
Yes, they literally did that. It's absolutely moronic. Whoever came up with this idea should be fired along with everyone else who greenlit it.
34. TeaBrain ◴[25 Jun 25 18:38 UTC] No.44380537{4}[source]▶
I think there's little chance it won't be changed back. Changing the name was probably motivated by someone in management pushing the name change so that they could list it as a personal achievement as one of the "new" AI products they'd overseen the release of in the current zeitgeist.
35. thewebguyd ◴[25 Jun 25 20:34 UTC] No.44381575{4}[source]▶
Don't forget Windows Mail->Outlook (New), replacing Outlook with Outlook (Classic). Same with "Teams (Classic)" and "Teams (New)"

Or the Teams download page that had two different versions - Teams for Home and Teams for Work/School.

Or .NET->.NET Core & .NET Framework->Back to .NET again.

36. TeMPOraL ◴[26 Jun 25 07:05 UTC] No.44384938{5}[source]▶
Think is, it's the latter lessons that are correct, because the ultimate arbiter of which marketing practices work or not is the market itself.

If anything, Marketing 101 works as a scaffolding but you learn the real lessons later on (basically like with every other vocational training wrapped in a degree, including especially computer science) - but also, and perhaps more importantly, it serves as a fig leaf. You can point to that and say, it's a Science and an Art and is Principled and done well It Is For The Good Of All Mankind, and keep the veneer of legitimacy over what's in practice a more systematized way of bringing harm to your fellow humans.

Also specifically wrt. brands - brands as quality signals mostly died out a decade or more ago; mixing them up is just a way to get their decaying corpses to trick more people for a little longer.