Most active commenters
  • AlexandrB(4)
  • LastTrain(4)
  • bobalob(4)
  • skyyler(3)
  • jl6(3)
  • djohnston(3)

←back to thread

1009 points n1b0m | 35 comments | | HN request time: 4.383s | source | bottom
1. AlexandrB ◴[] No.43411128[source]
Extremist positions on trans issues. To quote Sam Harris: "Congratulations, Democrats. You have found the most annoying thing in the fucking galaxy and hung it around your necks."[1]

[1] https://samharris.substack.com/p/the-reckoning

replies(3): >>43411159 #>>43411231 #>>43411239 #
2. Trasmatta ◴[] No.43411159[source]
Harris said almost nothing about trans issues during the election. You're attempting to rewrite history if you're claiming it was somehow a core tenant of her campaign. That was entirely propaganda by the opposing party.
replies(3): >>43411242 #>>43411265 #>>43411678 #
3. pjc50 ◴[] No.43411231[source]
I don't think that leaving trans people alone is extremist.
replies(2): >>43411275 #>>43411295 #
4. LastTrain ◴[] No.43411239[source]
And that impacts you on a daily basis exactly how? Think long and hard about why that would even begin to bother you. Not to mention is was barely a passing side issue for Harris
replies(1): >>43412783 #
5. blindriver ◴[] No.43411242[source]
Are voters only supposed to limit their votes about things candidates say during the election? If so does that mean voting against Trump for Jan 6 insurrection was wrong? Or can voters vote against Harris because of policies she has endorsed before the election?
replies(1): >>43411290 #
6. AlexandrB ◴[] No.43411265[source]
In various outlets she said she would change little from Biden's administration. And of course there's the classic: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harris-gender-surgeries-ja...

Are you suggesting that Harris would have reeled in some of the most outrageous policies on this issue? She said no such thing so the reasonable assumption anyone would make is that it would be business as usual. Not talking about it is the problem.

replies(1): >>43414115 #
7. skyyler ◴[] No.43411290{3}[source]
>If so does that mean voting against Trump for Jan 6 insurrection was wrong?

Well, no, because he campaigned on that. Including pardons for people that participated.

replies(1): >>43414951 #
8. AlexandrB ◴[] No.43411295[source]
Allowing bad actors to claim they have a female gender identity so they can get transferred to women's prisons is not "leaving trans people alone". There are clearly people abusing these policies to bad ends and the refusal to grapple with the idea that not every person who claims they're trans is a pure and honest snowflake is going to do tons of damage to the cause of "leaving trans people alone".
replies(1): >>43411374 #
9. sjsdaiuasgdia ◴[] No.43411340{3}[source]
Exactly how have trans people affected your life, directly?
replies(1): >>43412374 #
10. pjc50 ◴[] No.43411374{3}[source]
Ah yes, the bad behavior of one person justifies mistreatment of an entire group.
replies(1): >>43411536 #
11. AlexandrB ◴[] No.43411536{4}[source]
Could you please engage with the issue instead of making emotional appeals. You're saying this isn't a problem at all? What about the rights of the women affected by the bad actor(s)? Do you have some proposed solution for identifying the "one person" doing bad behavior?

The Democratic Party refused to grapple with these questions either and their electoral loss is going to do far more harm to trans rights than some reasonable policies (for example some gatekeeping of "self-ID") would have.

replies(1): >>43413086 #
12. jl6 ◴[] No.43411678[source]
She was loudly accused of having extreme positions on a hot button issue. Saying nothing was tantamount to admitting the accusation was true. That's how the court of public opinion works.
replies(1): >>43412042 #
13. eagleislandsong ◴[] No.43412042{3}[source]
> She was loudly accused of having extreme positions on a hot button issue.

She was accused of many things in bad faith, e.g. not being Black, being a Marxist, being a communist, and more. Spending time and effort to address every single one of these would have been tantamount to allowing her opponent to dictate her campaign.

replies(1): >>43413350 #
14. gadders ◴[] No.43412374{4}[source]
I have worked with (born male) non-binary people who alternate between wearing male and female clothes. I have seen them enter the female toilets, and win awards for women.

But tbh, this is a daft question. It's like saying you can't have a policy position on gun control unless someone has shot at you.

replies(2): >>43412945 #>>43413270 #
15. djohnston ◴[] No.43412783[source]
Are you implying that people should only vote on things which they encounter in their day-to-day lived experience? That's silly and not how the world works. Why are you mad about Gaza? You aren't getting JDAMs dropped on your roof, are you? How does Gaza impact you on a daily basis?

Harris failed to distance herself from positions that are deeply unpopular with the majority of Americans (e.g. sex changes for illegal immigrants). That's all there is to it.

If you want to step away from this particular issue, she failed to distance herself from the Biden administration's policies. There's a pretty famous clip of her failing to answer a question to that point, definitely on the youtubes.

replies(1): >>43418160 #
16. hobs ◴[] No.43412945{5}[source]
Dang you saw a trans person? How many trans people are the equivalent of a loaded weapon? Because that's the completely bonkers question that somehow is being equivocated here - that someone wearing different clothes or identifying differently is a potential harm just waiting to get you... how exactly?

Did you deserve the woman only award? Would you assume that identity to get that award? Are you saying that people dishonestly assume trans identities because its an easy way to assume power in our society? Are you a serious person?

replies(2): >>43413666 #>>43414703 #
17. contagiousflow ◴[] No.43413086{5}[source]
What actual policies prevent bad behavior?
replies(1): >>43414059 #
18. sjsdaiuasgdia ◴[] No.43413270{5}[source]
> who alternate between wearing male and female clothes

Does a woman in a t-shirt and jeans also cause you great emotional distress? Does it become more if she wore a dress the day before?

I'm going to agree with the other person who replied. You're not a serious person.

replies(1): >>43413688 #
19. jl6 ◴[] No.43413350{4}[source]
None of those things had attack ads with this kind of impact:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamala_is_for_they/them

It was and is an important issue to a lot of voters and by ignoring it she let her opponent explain her position for her.

20. gadders ◴[] No.43413688{6}[source]
No emotional distress, but obviously it does for women who have to share toilets and changing rooms with them. That has been well documented and isn't a controversial position, apart from amongst male to female trans people.
21. bobalob ◴[] No.43414059{6}[source]
In the case of prison policy, keeping prisoners strictly separated by sex, with no transfers of male prisoners into women's prisons allowed, under any circumstances.

Prisons should of course have safeguarding policy for further separation of vulnerable inmates within the prison.

Interestingly this is exactly what male prisoners with a transgender identity were requesting, according to https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/10/19/chase-strangio...:

> He teamed up with Lorena Borjas, the unofficial den mother to transgender Latinx women in New York City, to start the bail fund for transgender immigrants, and he joined a working group of lawyers who were drafting recommendations for President Obama's Department of Justice on the incarceration of trans people. "We asked people in prison what they needed, and they all said that they wanted a trans unit," Strangio said. But the lawyers in the working group, including Strangio, believed that L.G.B.T. units were stigmatizing, and only served to perpetuate the prison system.

However they were ignored, and instead of this, a policy of transferring males to women's prisons was introduced.

replies(1): >>43414794 #
22. skyyler ◴[] No.43414115{3}[source]
What exactly is the issue with prisoners getting medical care?
23. bobalob ◴[] No.43414703{6}[source]
This article is a good read, it explains why it's problematic to bestow upon men awards that were intended for women: https://www.filia.org.uk/latest-news/2018/9/21/does-the-appa...
replies(1): >>43416877 #
24. contagiousflow ◴[] No.43414794{7}[source]
Do you think the status quo of American prisons is good for anyone? I agree that this issue could be handled better, but as a non-American I've been horrified by many more things in the American prison system than this.
replies(2): >>43415405 #>>43423060 #
25. loeg ◴[] No.43414951{4}[source]
It is reasonable for voters to consider politicians' behavior before the most recent election cycle and ridiculous to say voters should have ignored Harris' earlier statements. (And I say that as someone who voted for Harris.)
replies(1): >>43415188 #
26. skyyler ◴[] No.43415188{5}[source]
Oh, no, I definitely agree with you on that, was just pointing out that specific premise is factually incorrect.
27. jl6 ◴[] No.43415405{8}[source]
Having a vulnerable inmates unit sounds like a great first step towards fixing some of the other abuses you might be thinking of.
28. hobs ◴[] No.43416877{7}[source]
Apologies, but I really do not care about sports awards or whatever - we're basically at the point in the USA that we're trying (or succeeding) to force de-transitioning because of bullshit like "He took her awards!"

When there's an impact that individual bad actors have, that's why we have individual punishments - we don't punish all men or all women for one bad actor, its nonsensical to treat trans folks as some homogeneous group when they literally embody the opposite :]

replies(1): >>43417212 #
29. bobalob ◴[] No.43417212{8}[source]
Understood, but I would still recommend reading that article, as it addresses some of your points and you may find it an interesting perspective.
30. LastTrain ◴[] No.43418160{3}[source]
I tend to care about policies that don't impact me personally when they harm other people. I'm a natural born citizen, I'm not going to get deported with out process, but I still care about that. I'm not in grade school, so I'm not going to be a victim of a school shooting, but I still care about that. If it is a policy that doesn't impact me personally, but benefits someone else, yeah I tend to not give a shit. Why would I be against a position that has no impact on me whatsoever when it only meant to help someone else as in the case with civil rights?
replies(1): >>43418940 #
31. djohnston ◴[] No.43418940{4}[source]
> If it is a policy that doesn't impact me personally, but benefits someone else, yeah I tend to not give a shit.

You're excluding a key point - the policy often benefits one party at the cost of another. You mentioned immigration and that's a great example of this sort of pathological empathy that has infected the left.

There's a cheap and fleeting sense of virtue attained when you champion illegal immigration and decry deportations. You post photos of mothers and their children crying at the border because the human trafficking organisations are having a hard time getting them across nowadays. But it's important to remember the negative pressure illegal immigrants place on wages and why there's a gross cabal of large corporations, lobbies, and affiliated NGOs, who virtue signal immigration as a means to lower their labor costs. It's important to remember the entire pipeline of illegal immigrants is owned and operated by extremely violent cartels - humans are now their most valuable product. Your desperate craving for that high of in-group acceptance is propping this up.

It's not that you're empathetic - you just don't care about the negatively impacted party. Nothing new under the sun.

replies(1): >>43419021 #
32. LastTrain ◴[] No.43419021{5}[source]
Yeah you don’t get to use the claim of “virtue signaling” to shut down conversation any more, we all understand that is a manipulative play to make someone feel a chump for having standards. Your claims on immigrants don’t match stats, they are less violent than the American population at large. And your example wasn’t that, it was about trans rights. Why would you be singularly opposed to recognizing someone’s basic rights to be who they are?
replies(1): >>43419064 #
33. djohnston ◴[] No.43419064{6}[source]
> they are less violent than the American population at large.

I made no assertion about the criminality of the immigrants, but rather the cartels bringing them here.

Regarding "trans rights", which is quite a large umbrella of ideas, negatively impacted parties include:

1. Parents who don't want schools influencing their children's ideas about sexual identity.

2. Women who don't want to compete against biological men in athletics (this is the most bewildering failure of the left's tolerance).

3. Women who feel uncomfortable sharing previously women-only spaces with biological men.

4. Trans people who made life-altering decisions as a minor and now regret it.

These negatively impacted parties are vocal now - they aren't hard to see. You don't care about them, is all.

replies(1): >>43419682 #
34. LastTrain ◴[] No.43419682{7}[source]
Yes I see a general lack of common decency lately. And scapegoating. And fear mongering. Because a lot of people hold a view doesn't make it right.
35. bobalob ◴[] No.43423060{8}[source]
Placing female prisoners at risk of physical violence, sexual assault, rape and impregnation by male prisoners is an obvious wrong to undo, but I agree there are many other horrifying aspects of prison conditions that need to be addressed as well.