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556 points greenie_beans | 23 comments | | HN request time: 1.036s | source | bottom
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timoth3y ◴[] No.42466636[source]
The entire history of the music business is one of attorneys developing ever more inventive ways of screwing over musicians.

The sad thing (for artists) is that it seems like most Spotify listeners don't care.

Most of our music consumption today seems to be as a kind of background vibe rather than an appreciation of the music itself.

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1. amelius ◴[] No.42466733[source]
It's a good demonstration of how the simple and seemingly solid foundations of our free market can still lead to extreme unfairness.
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2. equestria ◴[] No.42466811[source]
If a customer wants endless elevator music, then I don't think that Spotify is wrong to generate endless elevator music for them. The problem is deception. If you want to listen to human performances, then Spotify should give you choice instead of hoping you don't notice.

Free market means you can vote with your wallet. If you don't, then it says less about markets and more about our stated vs revealed preferences. Maybe we just don't care if real artists go away.

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3. text0404 ◴[] No.42466967[source]
"we" care - the businesses that have inserted themselves as middlemen to extract profit have found that it's cheaper to deceive consumers, drag the quality of art down, and eliminate artists from art completely (or at least what a business executive thinks art is). _those_ are the people who don't care if artists go away. we as human beings are worse off for it.
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4. harry8 ◴[] No.42466989[source]
Having trouble generating much ripoff sympathy for someone who wants to listen to elevator music and feels ripped off because they can't tell the difference between human and algorithm. They've lost what that wasn't already long gone for them? That I have sympathy for, how could we not?
5. equestria ◴[] No.42467091{3}[source]
Well, then again: maybe Spotify was hoping you wouldn't notice, but by now, the problem has been exposed publicly a number of times. This article is one of many.

How many of us are canceling their Spotify subscriptions over this? It wouldn't be some huge sacrifice, it's about the least we could do. Most of us won't. The "caring" is just lip service.

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6. akira2501 ◴[] No.42467275[source]
The music industry relies on government supported copyrights. Music is often unsaleable unless you have an existing exclusive contract with the label. Royalty rates are set by the government.

We're pretty far away from any actual "free market" here.

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7. the_af ◴[] No.42467354[source]
> If a customer wants endless elevator music, then I don't think that Spotify is wrong to generate endless elevator music for them.

Do people really want low effort things, or are they addicted to them in a loop that businesses are only too happy to reinforce?

I think public tastes are at least partially trained (or "learned"), they are very prone to addictive feedback loops, and they are not entirely shaped by something intrinsic but heavily influenced by what's on offer. And if what's on offer is intentionally cheap garbage...

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8. equestria ◴[] No.42467498{3}[source]
Oh, come on. Not everything is addiction. I can accept that algorithmic doom-scrolling is somewhat habit-forming, but even there, we have agency. But background music? Yeah, I like it, but I don't get restless or frustrated when it's not playing.
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9. bee_rider ◴[] No.42468839{3}[source]
Depends on the situation. While working, I think lots of us listen to music where the main merit is being non-distracting. In this case, effort is not so important.

If I’m actually listening to the music, I’ll want it to be good.

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10. amelius ◴[] No.42469435[source]
> The music industry relies on government supported copyrights.

The government protects intellectual property rights and they protect physical property rights. In a completely free market, you'd have to own an army to protect your company building. The people with the biggest army would own everything.

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11. akira2501 ◴[] No.42469971{3}[source]
> The government protects intellectual property rights and they protect physical property rights.

Intellectual property laws are in the constitution and are structured to allow the government to preemptively act on potential violations. For example seizing shipments that would violate patents or trademarks before any actual sale occurs. They can also create registration offices to certify claims publicly for the holders.

At the same time you were, and often still are, expected to physically protect your own property and the government largely can not preemptively act on potential issues. You must be a victim to receive service. To a large extent most property dispute /resolutions/ are handled through the civil courts. A criminal prosecution for theft may or may not be perused by a district attourney or certified by a grand jury, and even if it is, it does not make your injury whole.

You would still need a civil judgement to reclaim your property or it's claimed and adjudicated value. Once you have this judgement you are again personally responsible for enforcing it. You can file paperwork with the sheriff to audit their property and sell it or garnish their wages but you take all responsibility for this. Including finding their property or identifying their employer. None of this will happen on it's own simply because you were a victim of an actual property crime.

12. the_af ◴[] No.42470331{4}[source]
Maybe addicting wasn't the right word, but more about reward vs effort.

Regardless, I think it's not the full picture to say businesses simply give people what they want; businesses actually shape people's wants. That's what advertising is about...

13. amelius ◴[] No.42470496{4}[source]
You cannot blame consumers for the literal failure of the free market. Consumer psychology is what it is, you cannot change it, and actors in the free market will gladly abuse it where they can.
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14. occz ◴[] No.42470667{3}[source]
There's a crucial difference between intellectual property and physical property - in the case of physical property, someone else having it necessitates that you cannot have it.

Intellectual property is infinitely reproducible and someone else having it does not mean you cannot have it.

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15. imajoredinecon ◴[] No.42471040{4}[source]
You should try working in a compiled language. I need good music to listen to while I wait for gcc to do its thing
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16. 09thn34v ◴[] No.42471524[source]
i agree with you, but i also think that there are some things that are more important, and deserve to be protected outside of the dynamics of the free market. i'd argue that art is one of those things, along with housing, health care, social services, etc.
17. bee_rider ◴[] No.42472125{5}[source]
Put the compilation in another terminal, not need to wait for it to complete.
18. troupo ◴[] No.42472995{3}[source]
You mean the business that lets you listen to your favorite music on nearly any device in existence with seamless switching between them is actually a good business, and the actual middle men are these (quote from the article):

--- start quote ---

In reality, Spotify was subject to the outsized influence of the major-label oligopoly of Sony, Universal, and Warner, which together owned a 17 percent stake in the company when it launched. The companies, which controlled roughly 70 percent of the market for recorded music, held considerable negotiating power from the start.

... Ek’s company was paying labels and publishers a lot of money—some 70 percent of its revenue

--- end quote ---

?

19. achenet ◴[] No.42473953{5}[source]
how is Spotify generating a bunch of of royalty free music in a way that kinda screws over the actual musicians making that music, which, for the musicians, isn't much worse than getting screwed over by record labels and may even be better in some ways [0], in order to meet the market's desire for "Chill Lo-fi Hip-hop background music"/"Music to Relax and Study"/"Gentle Relaxing Yoga Music" a 'literal failure of the free market'?

People want comforting background noise, the market gives it to them. They never asked for ethically sourced, organic, gluten-free comforting background noise, although if they do, I'm sure the market will be more than happy to provide them with that, and we can look forwards to "Chill Study Music Made by Adorable Orphan Children in Kenya Using Only Recycled Materials And Biodegradable Recording Equipment" or whatever :)

[0] https://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-problem-with-music

20. achenet ◴[] No.42474000{5}[source]
If you're working with C, your developer environment should include, in addition a good text editor and debugger, a fully furnished recording studio so you can record an album while waiting for your program to build.

If you'd like to increase your income, you can try making formulaic smooth jazz for Spotify playlists instead of pretentious concept albums about your childhood trauma that no one will actually listen to ;)

21. amelius ◴[] No.42474224{4}[source]
How does that make a difference here?

Besides, physical property law is also just an abstract concept. If _you_ own a swimming pool, who says I cannot use it also?

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22. occz ◴[] No.42478615{5}[source]
One person using a swimming pool means that another person cannot use that particular fraction of the same swimming pool at the same time.

Again, this does not apply to intellectual property, which is infinitely reproducible.

23. pxoe ◴[] No.42478735{3}[source]
believe it or not, there are different kinds of music for different kinds of moods and levels of listening to it, levels of attention, engagement, and so on. some songs will be just a bit too engaging to listen to for some things, and some more low key songs might be a better fit.

people settle for "mediocrity" all the time. be it just what you deem "mediocre" (out of cluelessness and/or disrespect), if it's not a "generic idea of a song with lyrics and all" and just some mild electronica, or if it is really just kind of mediocre, which is a good fit in some situations nonetheless, and does actually have wider appeal due to its mediocrity.

"low effort" may overlap, in perception or in how things are actually made, with some simpler, subtler, not overproduced music. it really isn't a bad thing at all, so it's bizarre to see it get shaded so much.