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Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

(www.cnn.com)
577 points mooreds | 12 comments | 18 Nov 24 14:31 UTC | HN request time: 0.003s | source | bottom
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leshokunin ◴[18 Nov 24 20:06 UTC] No.42176328[source]▶
The constant Russian interference, combined with the regular escalation from the jets patrolling, and the radar jamming, really needs to be dealt with.

We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation. This feels like constant creep.

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JumpCrisscross ◴[18 Nov 24 21:00 UTC] No.42176978[source]▶
> We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation

If only there were someone applying pressure to Russia we could have fight for us!

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PKop ◴[18 Nov 24 21:12 UTC] No.42177095[source]▶
So sacrifice more Ukrainian men for the meat grinder? What has that accomplished so far?
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1. marssaxman ◴[18 Nov 24 21:21 UTC] No.42177189[source]▶
What business is that of ours? It's up to the Ukrainians what they are willing to do in defense of their country.
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2. PKop ◴[18 Nov 24 21:24 UTC] No.42177221[source]▶
>we could have fight for us

C'mon. Their funding is entirely US dependent. What business is that of ours? We are enabling it. How could you possibly ask the question "what business is that of ours"? Explain yourself, that question is absurd.

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3. JumpCrisscross ◴[18 Nov 24 21:27 UTC] No.42177245[source]▶
> What business is that of ours? We are enabling it.

They clearly want to fight! This is like arguing giving someone chemo is enabling their cancer.

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4. PKop ◴[18 Nov 24 21:30 UTC] No.42177278{3}[source]▶
Who is "they" and what is "clearly"? They are running out of men they can find to fight, and for quite a while the government and military used very aggressive methods to force men into service. There is a huge desertion problem, in the military and the country itself. A whole lot of Ukrainians do not want to fight.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ukraine-running-out-s...

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5. JumpCrisscross ◴[18 Nov 24 21:33 UTC] No.42177314{4}[source]▶
> Who is "they" and what is "clearly"?

Who do you think?

> A whole lot of Ukrainians do not want to fight

Yes, there is not unanimous agreement on a big political question. Shocking. By this measure, nobody should ever fight for everything.

6. aguaviva ◴[18 Nov 24 22:39 UTC] No.42177876{4}[source]▶
A whole lot of Ukrainians do not want to fight.

A whole lot of people don't want to fight in any war.

What matters is the relative portion. Though they my differ in the views as to whether the lost regions can be regained, or on what terms a cease-fire may be acceptable -- by all indications, a very solid majority of the society in non-occupied Ukraine supports the fight.

Who is "they" and what is "clearly"?

About 60-80 percent of the population. "Clearly" as in according to reliable polling data I can pull up later. Or by spending any amount of time talking to Ukrainians.

There is a huge desertion problem,

It is obviously a significant problem, but a better source is needed on the "huge" part. The link you provided does not support that view.

If I hear "desertion is a huge problem", what comes to mind it the situation in Afghanstan after the notorious Trump-Biden pullout. The situation in Ukraine is nothing like that, not even remotely.

7. nobody9999 ◴[19 Nov 24 03:03 UTC] No.42179733[source]▶
>C'mon. Their funding is entirely US dependent.

I believe you're misinformed about that.

   The majority of committed support by country has come from the United States,
   whose total aid commitment is valued at about $75 billion. The U.S. is 
   followed by Germany and the United Kingdom for highest commitments overall. 
   The European Union as a whole has committed approximately $93 billion in aid 
   to Ukraine.[0]
While the US is largest donor by country, the EU as a whole has contributed more than the US.[1] Which is unsurprising, given the circumstances.

So no. Ukraine funding is not entirely dependent on the US. Not even close.

[0] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/these-co...

[1] https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s...

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8. sedan_baklazhan ◴[19 Nov 24 06:59 UTC] No.42180700{3}[source]▶
Exactly because Ukrainians want to fight their borders are closed from the day one. Because the people that want to fight should be kept in their country by force, North Korea style. I’m not sure how it works, but well.
replies(1): >>42182224 #
9. GordonS ◴[19 Nov 24 08:45 UTC] No.42181248{3}[source]▶
Right... but the EU is acting as US' proxy; the EU only threw all that money at the Ukraine (destroying itself economically in the process!) because of US "influence".

Many EU countries are now little more than US vassals.

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10. aguaviva ◴[19 Nov 24 10:55 UTC] No.42182097{4}[source]▶
Many EU countries are now little more than US vassals

They're nothing of the sort. Your perspective is seriously out of touch with reality.

11. Sabinus ◴[19 Nov 24 11:15 UTC] No.42182224{4}[source]▶
This perspective on conscription is odd to me. Countries do conscription during existential wars. The Allies used conscription in WW2. Was that wrong?
12. immibis ◴[20 Nov 24 04:01 UTC] No.42190724{4}[source]▶
I guess you're right. Ukraine should let Russia exterminate the Ukrainians. 3 times as many people will die as died in the German extermination regime, but it's worth it to avoid conscription, right?