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Please stop the coding challenges

(blackentropy.bearblog.dev)
261 points CrazyEmi | 25 comments | | HN request time: 1.428s | source | bottom
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simonw ◴[] No.42148072[source]
> This is like asking a Ruby developer to debug PHP as a test of flexibility.

Sounds like an OK test to me. Great (senior) developers should be able to do that kind of thing. Categorizing yourself exclusively as "a Ruby developer" is a career trap.

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makk ◴[] No.42148141[source]
> Categorizing yourself exclusively as "a Ruby developer" is a career trap.

And a lucrative one at that.

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1. bluedevilzn ◴[] No.42148201[source]
It’s lucrative if your bar is 6 figures.

No engineer that makes 7 figures calls themselves a ruby developer with the exception of DHH.

replies(5): >>42148244 #>>42148247 #>>42148262 #>>42148272 #>>42150249 #
2. qwertygnu ◴[] No.42148244[source]
There's no need to be shooting for 7 figures. Get a life
replies(1): >>42148552 #
3. Xelynega ◴[] No.42148247[source]
Isn't the average for software developers in the US ~100k(before taxes)?

Assuming that high earners are offsetting that to the higher end, most people aren't making 6 figures, and the bar isn't which language they're programming in.

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4. sundaeofshock ◴[] No.42148262[source]
How many developers are out there making $1,000,000/year? Not in the hopes of hitting it big someday off of equity, but actual annual payoff?

How many companies are out there paying $1,000,000/year for devs?

How many devs who can command that kind salary are going to put up with bullshit coding challenges?

replies(1): >>42148563 #
5. marcellus23 ◴[] No.42148272[source]
Nominated for most HN comment of the week.
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6. duped ◴[] No.42148366[source]
100k is on the lower end of junior salary
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7. Jtsummers ◴[] No.42148446{3}[source]
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...

Junior salaries go down much lower than $100k.

replies(1): >>42149454 #
8. kstrauser ◴[] No.42148476{3}[source]
...in tech hubs. That's a pretty great living in most other places.
replies(1): >>42149444 #
9. ryandrake ◴[] No.42148510[source]
Come on! Everyone posting on HN makes $500K a year, has a vacation home in Tahoe and drives a brand new Ferrari. They think "L6 at Google in the Bay Area" is the median job level for the entire software industry.
replies(1): >>42148604 #
10. dmvdoug ◴[] No.42148513[source]
Where’s n-gate.com when you need them, eh? :)
replies(1): >>42148695 #
11. bluedevilzn ◴[] No.42148552[source]
Working 40 hours and making 7 figures, gives you plenty of time to have a life.

The key here is not to categorize as a “language developer”.

replies(1): >>42148951 #
12. bluedevilzn ◴[] No.42148563[source]
Many thousands of Sr. Staff engineers+ and Sr. managers+ across FAANG.

Google alone has 4000 directors all making a million at minimum.

I have only worked at FAANG across my nearly decade long career. So, it’s a biased but very large sample.

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13. ForHackernews ◴[] No.42148604{3}[source]
If this article and the comments here are to be believed, all you need to do to make L6 is grind on leetcode.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

14. marcellus23 ◴[] No.42148695{3}[source]
Man I miss n-gate. Sometimes I go back and read the archives just for fun.
15. alexawarrior4 ◴[] No.42148755[source]
One of the few areas of reliable statistics about US software developer pay come from the US Government Bureau of Labor Statistics. The median wage as of May 2023:

$132,270

This means half of all full time employed devs are higher, and half are lower. The mean is more skewed by higher earners but is similar:

$138,110

It also varies quite widely by geographic location, from a mean high of $173,780 in California to only $125,890 in Texas, from $199,800 in San Jose to $132,500 in Austin to $98,960 in rural Kansas (where I have actually developed software before!)

The short of it is, the vast majority of software developers do not make the top salaries. Even L6 is rare within the top tier of tech. There is a lot of delusion in this field around pay, so it's important to be well informed. As a field we are still very well paid compared to most other jobs especially considering our safe working conditions and lack of needed credentials and education. Compared to most of the work on this planet, it's still a goldmine.

Source: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm

16. margalabargala ◴[] No.42148774{3}[source]
Okay, and let's say there's another 4000 Sr Staff+ engineers at Google making that much. That's 4% of the company.

That's not unheard of, but it's certainly rare. $1 million+ is not a "typical salary", even at Google.

17. alexawarrior4 ◴[] No.42148777{3}[source]
If you sample only from the 10,000 or so current Olympic athletes, you will draw similarly incorrect conclusions about the 8 billion planetary general population's athletic ability.
18. NoMoreNicksLeft ◴[] No.42148951{3}[source]
Is 7 figures even realistic? I was under the impression that even a senior FAANG job was still just under $300k typically. Does anyone outside of a CTO/CIO make $1mil+?
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19. inerte ◴[] No.42149045{4}[source]
I know half a dozen of Senior Staff at FAANGs and they make I would say around 600k - 700k, more of course if stocks appreciate but that's hard to control.

Consistent total compensation offers of $1mil+ is probably reserved for roles above these, sometimes called Principal or Distinguished. I would say the rate of having one of these in an org are like 1 for ~150 engineers.

20. botanical76 ◴[] No.42149173{3}[source]
Is this some coveted attempt to push tech salaries higher?
21. duped ◴[] No.42149444{4}[source]
Most places don't have qualified tech workers in spades.
22. duped ◴[] No.42149454{4}[source]
That doesn't match my experience on both ends of the hiring table. And forgive me if forwarding the BLS statistics to candidates doesn't get them to accept offers, because I know it wouldn't help me when I can get paid a lot more elsewhere.
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23. Jtsummers ◴[] No.42149521{5}[source]
> That doesn't match my experience on both ends of the hiring table.

Congratulations, your experience is limited. The BLS stats represent the actual US salary data, not just your limited experience. If you want to make a claim about salaries in the US then look at data across the US and not just whatever is true within your limited bubble.

> And forgive me if forwarding the BLS statistics to candidates doesn't get them to accept offers

Did I ever even suggest such a thing?

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24. duped ◴[] No.42149881{6}[source]
I take the BLS numbers with a huge grain of salt, they are useful for identifying trends and not absolute facts on the ground.

> Did I ever even suggest such a thing?

My point is that the BLS doesn't set market rates or report on them.

25. bigstrat2003 ◴[] No.42150249[source]
Bro this comment is so out of touch it's ridiculous. A 6 figure salary is lucrative. 7 figures is a crazy pipe dream that basically nobody will ever experience.