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420 points solcloud | 42 comments | | HN request time: 0.241s | source | bottom
1. tokai ◴[] No.41924295[source]
Still not open source many hours later after multiple people said to put a license on it. Calling something open source when its not is really not okay, and it is hurting free and open source software.
replies(6): >>41924342 #>>41924429 #>>41924533 #>>41925018 #>>41925263 #>>41942022 #
2. ivanvanderbyl ◴[] No.41924429[source]
What would you call it? Source available?
replies(2): >>41924447 #>>41924558 #
3. croes ◴[] No.41924447[source]
Yes
4. solcloud ◴[] No.41924533[source]
Yeah yeah yeah, I am hurting open source, my apology to open source
replies(2): >>41924557 #>>41924585 #
5. lagniappe ◴[] No.41924557[source]
>Yeah yeah yeah, I am hurting open source, my apology to open source

Not a great response. Do you know where you are right now?

replies(2): >>41924610 #>>41925174 #
6. tokai ◴[] No.41924558[source]
I would personally just called it a video game. Free and Open source a issue of copy right. If there's still full copyright (and there's copy right on everything published nomatter if it is explicitly claimed or not) with no license on a piece of software, it has nothing to do with open source.

But source available would be the term to use if one wants to point out that the source is on github.

replies(2): >>41924592 #>>41925037 #
7. meiraleal ◴[] No.41924592{3}[source]
Open-source game has a literal meaning.
replies(1): >>41924618 #
8. solcloud ◴[] No.41924610{3}[source]
Maybe I am just waiting for somebody to open PR for adding license cause it looks like everybody is lawyer these days
replies(2): >>41924710 #>>41924859 #
9. tokai ◴[] No.41924618{4}[source]
The code is not open source. It is not an open source game. This is not open to interpretation, as there is no license given.
replies(1): >>41924985 #
10. andruby ◴[] No.41924710{4}[source]
What license do you want to share your work under? MIT? GPL? There's a couple of trade-offs in that choice.

Github has an overview of some of your options: https://github.com/readme/guides/open-source-licensing

11. Vinnl ◴[] No.41924859{4}[source]
Ah, well, if that's all: https://github.com/solcloud/Counter-Strike/pull/28

(It's kinda weird, because to make a PR, I had to make a fork, and then I added the licence to my fork, even though I'm not allowed to pick the licence, but )

replies(2): >>41925154 #>>41925340 #
12. shortrounddev2 ◴[] No.41924985{5}[source]
Why isn't it open to interpretation? Who made you king of open source software
replies(1): >>41925046 #
13. segmondy ◴[] No.41925018[source]
It is open source, the source is right there on the repo for anyone to read. It can be open source without being free software, it can be open source without having any license. If the owner has opened their code to the world to read, it's open source.
replies(2): >>41925042 #>>41925366 #
14. segmondy ◴[] No.41925037{3}[source]
semantics, "source available" is for closed software that's willing to make source available to their customers. For instance, Microsoft windows is not open source, but if you're an important enough customer, they will make the source available to you. open means there's no restricting for you to read the code.
15. linsomniac ◴[] No.41925042[source]
It is "source available" not "open source", there's a difference. The term "open source" refers to a particular thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source
replies(1): >>41925203 #
16. franga2000 ◴[] No.41925046{6}[source]
Terms that have an unambiguous and widely-agreed-upon definition are simply not open to interpretation. The term "open source software" is a technical term and is defined by The Open Source Definition [0], which is accepted by the overwhelming majority of experts in software engineering and software licensing.

[0] https://opensource.org/osd

replies(1): >>41925104 #
17. shortrounddev2 ◴[] No.41925104{7}[source]
The Open Source Initiative is a hypocritical organization that tried to trademark the term "Open Source" and was denied because they don't control the term and have no stewardship over it. Your interpretation is not accepted by the overwhelming majority of "experts in software engineering" (whatever that means), and I don't know of any way to quantify your claim either. What you are referring to is most likely FOSS, which is a more rigidly defined thing. Open Source, to most people, is a colloquial term that simply means that the source is available to be viewed.
18. fluoridation ◴[] No.41925154{5}[source]
It makes me want to start several PRs with conflicting licenses.
replies(1): >>41925336 #
19. mihaaly ◴[] No.41925174{3}[source]
Do they know who they dare talking to?! That tone, scandal!! Should know his/her place the unrespectful puny fella!
20. segmondy ◴[] No.41925203{3}[source]
I was around before that wiki page was written and know exactly what open source means. I'm not going to play the double speak game on words. open source means you can read the code. period. it doesn't matter if it's free, or if it has a commercial nature or not.

free software is software you don't have to pay money to use, it doesn't matter if you have access to the code or not.

source available means the source is available on request and with restrictions to keep it private. doesn't matter if the software is free or not.

replies(3): >>41925933 #>>41926619 #>>41957503 #
21. Capricorn2481 ◴[] No.41925245{3}[source]
"Many hours later" is a great way to make it sound like a lot of time passed, but the creator said less than 24 hours ago they were open to adding a license and then several users accused him of essentially kicking puppies to death because it wasn't done yet.

He expressed anxiety and unfamiliarity with adding a license he didn't understand. Not to mention multiple users started arguing over the best license, further highlighting why he shouldn't just trust random internet comments and actually look into it. You're going to harass him for it? Do you own his time for the next week because he made a post on HN? Because that attitude is way more harmful to OSS than what you're up in arms about.

Furthermore, this is colloquially open-source to most people, and you're hung up on semantics. Anybody that needs to care about a license can look and see if one is there. If it's so simple to understand a license and add it to your project in such a short span of time, surely it's simple to check for the existence of one in the first place.

replies(1): >>41925462 #
22. unethical_ban ◴[] No.41925263[source]
"Hey creator, it's important for open software to be properly licensed, otherwise there can be legal issues. <Insert link to open source license references>"
23. solcloud ◴[] No.41925336{6}[source]
bring it :D now I thinks about suing anybody forking repo with licence change :D no seriously it is merged now so world is safe again :)
24. Capricorn2481 ◴[] No.41925340{5}[source]
They went with a more open license. Try to do better next time with your license choices. GNU is not nearly as open as the "DO WHAT THE FUCK YOU WANT TO PUBLIC LICENSE."

https://github.com/solcloud/Counter-Strike/pull/27/files

replies(1): >>41925607 #
25. solcloud ◴[] No.41925366[source]
that is exactly my meaning of open source but as you can see so many people disagree, but now I merged random license so it is 0K now I guess :)
replies(2): >>41925531 #>>41926545 #
26. solcloud ◴[] No.41925462{4}[source]
nicely written, thank you for kind words
27. IdSayThatllDoIt ◴[] No.41925531{3}[source]
You picked the best license, not a random one!
replies(1): >>41929416 #
28. Vinnl ◴[] No.41925607{6}[source]
Glad they did, because now my fork illegally adding a licence is legal again. Phew!
replies(2): >>41925704 #>>41928019 #
29. solcloud ◴[] No.41925704{7}[source]
this is awesome :D
30. duckmysick ◴[] No.41925933{4}[source]
This is what the Jargon File says:

> [common; also adj. open-source] Term coined in March 1998 following the Mozilla release to describe software distributed in source under licenses guaranteeing anybody rights to freely use, modify, and redistribute, the code. The intent was to be able to sell the hackers' ways of doing software to industry and the mainstream by avoiding the negative connotations (to suits) of the term “free software”.

http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/O/open-source.html

I looks like open source means more that just ability to read the code.

replies(1): >>41926325 #
31. jmcqk6 ◴[] No.41926325{5}[source]
There is no platonic definition for words that make it wrong to use them in a different way.

Dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive.

If someone uses a term like "open source" in a way that is clearly different from how you understand the word, that doesn't make them wrong. All it does it highlight a different perspective.

You can attempt to tell them that they are wrong to use the term that way. It's changing the topic and distracts from the point, so if that's your goal, go for it. Most people don't react well to it. You can think that they should be okay with it, but people don't tend to react well to that either.

it's your choice.

replies(1): >>41929100 #
32. bbeonx ◴[] No.41926377{3}[source]
chill, be nice
33. DrammBA ◴[] No.41926545{3}[source]
I'm glad to see you're not bothered by these weird hn folk, I've said this before but people like to think hn is better than reddit when in reality we have our own brand of toxic here
34. linsomniac ◴[] No.41926619{4}[source]
>I was around before that wiki page was written

Ditto (first tech job was in '87).

So I guess you are saying that you're aware that "open source" means a specific thing to many people in this field, but are going to use it in a confusing (to many) way rather than using the unloaded "source available"? You do you, but don't expect everyone to agree to switch from this fairly common usage. Makes it look like you're just searching for an argument.

35. thtmnisamnstr ◴[] No.41926840{3}[source]
You could have solved this issue. Your coding fingers turned into complaining fingers. If you really had a problem, you should have opened a PR with a license instead of demanding that OP do it on your timeline.
36. fluoridation ◴[] No.41928019{7}[source]
Just FWI, it's not illegal to add an incorrect license to a repository you don't have the rights to. It's simply a lie. The copyright notice is just a statement from the author, it doesn't per se define the terms under which the project is distributed. What defines them is the fact that it's the author who put the file there.
replies(1): >>41928227 #
37. Vinnl ◴[] No.41928227{8}[source]
Heh, fair enough I suppose, though it's definitely not very nice to make people believe that I can give them permission to do things, when I don't.
38. duckmysick ◴[] No.41929100{6}[source]
I don't think it's wrong. I think it's confusing and creates unnecessary friction. Especially if the term is well-established in the profession or the community.
replies(1): >>41930078 #
39. solcloud ◴[] No.41929416{4}[source]
I hope so, but game will be now on categorized as pegi18 just because of license using strong language :D
40. jmcqk6 ◴[] No.41930078{7}[source]
Does it really? I find I have a pretty common process, where I will hear something and it doesn't make sense to me, and then I pause for a moment to think, and I realize the speaker is using some word or phrase differently than I was expecting. I then understand what was trying to be said and continue the conversation.

This is a daily thing in my experience, often internalized to the point I don't notice until reflecting later. It doesn't feel like friction to me. This is the unavoidable nature of trying to connect with someone using language.

41. ajdude ◴[] No.41942022[source]
https://github.com/solcloud/Counter-Strike/blob/master/LICEN...
42. MYEUHD ◴[] No.41957503{4}[source]
> free software is software you don't have to pay money to use, it doesn't matter if you have access to the code or not.

Free software is software that grants the four essential freedoms [0]. It doesn't matter if it's gratis or not.

[0]: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html#four-freedoms