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243 points rcarmo | 24 comments | | HN request time: 0.002s | source | bottom
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purpleblue ◴[] No.41909618[source]
The sheer unadulterated racism from the past is horrifying and sickening. Sure, we still have work to do, but I'm glad we've come so far in the last few decades.
replies(3): >>41911077 #>>41911200 #>>41914318 #
1. Spooky23 ◴[] No.41911077[source]
It’s still here. We dress it up as voter ID or something similar.
replies(6): >>41911460 #>>41911500 #>>41911651 #>>41912445 #>>41914877 #>>41914967 #
2. anonfordays ◴[] No.41911460[source]
Voter ID is not racist.
replies(6): >>41911488 #>>41911544 #>>41911673 #>>41911776 #>>41913112 #>>41913748 #
3. defrost ◴[] No.41911488[source]
Like many such policies it's not explicitly racist .. as a procedure it simply disenfranchises some demographics more than others; lower income brackets, people that have had difficult housing and record keepng pasts, indigenous voters on reservation lands lacking mailbox addresses, etc.

It's a mystery how that appears to proportionally exclude along racial and ethnic lines but it's assuredly not that by delibrate intent.

Just a happy accident really?

replies(2): >>41915662 #>>41915956 #
4. onionisafruit ◴[] No.41911500[source]
Voter id is so far from this. You might have to jump through hoops to get an ID, but with literacy tests it was almost impossible for blacks to register.
replies(1): >>41915227 #
5. KingMob ◴[] No.41911544[source]
It certainly is, because the laws are passed with the intent that they won't be applied equally.

Incidentally, this is one of the things critical race theory actually talked about: how laws can be non-discriminatory on the surface, but deliberately created and applied in a discriminatory manner.

To trot out Wilhoit's Law again: "Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect."

replies(1): >>41915684 #
6. MandieD ◴[] No.41911673[source]
In Texas, there used to be DPS offices in most mid-sized towns and everyone just had to wait in line to get their driver’s license (principal ID for most Texans) or non-driver ID card.

Now, they’ve concentrated them into a few larger service centers that are often miles away from the cities they serve and require appointments, sometimes not available for several weeks… but with a few that spontaneously crop up at short notice.

Guess what does not work for people reliant on the meager public transportation infrastructure or getting rides from also time-strapped friends and family?

Germany, by contrast, requires every resident to register in the city or town they live in for an ID, whether they intend to vote or not, but even small towns have such an office, and as someone else pointed out, every citizen receives a letter 30 days before each election telling them exactly who/what is being voted on, where they are to go on Election Day (always a Sunday), and how to vote absentee if they’re not going to be in town that day.

replies(2): >>41911751 #>>41914922 #
7. ◴[] No.41911751{3}[source]
8. throwaway4736 ◴[] No.41911776[source]
It absolutely is. Go look at the racial demographics of the neighborhoods where DMVs are being opened and closed. And then ask yourself which racial groups, at large, are more likely to have time in their day to sit at an inconveniently located DMV and what party they most often vote for.
replies(1): >>41915767 #
9. refurb ◴[] No.41912445[source]
The biggest thing we need to work is the subtle racism of low expectations.
replies(1): >>41914120 #
10. Spooky23 ◴[] No.41913112[source]
Fair. It disenfranchises the poor across racial boundaries.
replies(2): >>41914093 #>>41916256 #
11. consteval ◴[] No.41914076[source]
From a statistical standpoint, there are proportionally less black people with ID than other racial groups.

It's not a matter of capability, it's purely a factual matter. It's not up for debate black Americans would be disproportionality affected, and as such you can easily argue the policy has racist intentions. What some black Americans say, and what some politicians say, does not matter.

12. llamaimperative ◴[] No.41914086[source]
Assuming that you’re sharing this in good faith, the claim “it’s difficult for black folks to get identification” is a compressed way of saying “ease and necessity of accessing civil services like DMVs is not evenly distributed across the country e.g. very GOOD accessible civil services in Harlem, Manhattan and NOT very accessible civil services in rural Appalachia, and the unevenness tends to correlate with other forms of inequality in our society such as along rich/poor and white/black lines, meaning some types of voter ID laws create systematic bias in who is able to exercise their constitutional right to vote, and given that it is effectively impossible to make any impact in any election via voter fraud even without voter ID laws, the mass disenfranchisement of a non-random sampling of Americans is not worth the upside.”

Hope that helps!

replies(1): >>41915400 #
13. consteval ◴[] No.41914093{3}[source]
Poverty is not equal across racial boundaries and geography is also not equal across racial boundaries. Where you put the DPS matters, and the South is still very much segregated to some degree today. Naturally, the state government knows this and takes full advantage of it.

See also: Gerrymandering. Same concept.

replies(1): >>41914203 #
14. consteval ◴[] No.41914120[source]
The implication that acknowledging statistical reality that certain income groups and racial groups have less ID is in it of itself racist is, well, racist. Because then you can use this adject dismissal of reality to apply racist laws and claim they're not racist.

In the naivest, most shallow analysis Voter ID is not racist because black Americans are just as capable of receiving ID. The logic is fine, but purposefully ignorant.

The barrier to ID IS NOT just "do you have the physical/mental ability to get ID". The barriers are economic and geographic. When you don't put DMVs in black areas that becomes a barrier. When IDs cost money that becomes a barrier. When a motor vehicle is required that becomes a barrier.

15. Spooky23 ◴[] No.41914203{4}[source]
Totally. I’m being sarcastic. :)

I’ve worked in the ID space and know how the parts work together. When I found myself widowed and having to get a passport for my son, the process of getting a replacement social security card for him was incredibly onerous. 3 different visits! Mind you this was to get a replacement cardboard card - getting survivors benefits is a simple phone call.

Multiple visits is a barrier for folks without paid time off. Physical documents is a barrier for folks without unstable housing or noncustodial parents.

It’s interesting that all of this bullshit is required to exercise your right to vote. But we have the minimal possible controls on the right to bear arms in those states.

replies(1): >>41915864 #
16. Cthulhu_ ◴[] No.41914877[source]
Or racist police profiling and felony convictions for things white people would walk for (felony conviction = you lose the right to vote, effectively stripping someone of their citizenship. I don't know if it's for life, is it?)
17. boohoo123 ◴[] No.41914967[source]
It's racist to think blacks are incapable of getting an ID.
18. tbyehl ◴[] No.41915084[source]
Weird how young-ish people in a particularly dense urban setting with plentiful public transit and many DMV offices to choose from — TIL: several exclusively for AAA members — may have a different lived experience than, say, older people in a rural county roughly half the size of Rhode Island with no public transit and a single DMV office.

Tho the county I refer to barely has any black residents so there couldn't possibly be any racial motivations. Just like the nearby restaurant plastered with a bunch of "rules" in giant lettering on the exterior, such as "No sagging pants", isn't owned by a racist. /s

Ruby Bridges is still alive and younger than our last president.

19. Lord-Jobo ◴[] No.41915227[source]
One disproportionately effects black voters, with an (arbitrary guess) 80% effectiveness rate.

One disproportionately effects black voters with a (https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/impa...) ~10% effectiveness

Just because one is working better then the other doesn't mean they are any different in their purpose

20. giraffe_lady ◴[] No.41915662{3}[source]
A fun fact is that this is specifically the question the academic framework of critical race theory was formed to address. How can systems that are not explicitly racist, that may actually have racial equity as explicit goals, still create racially disparate outcomes. It's an interesting area of study! No wonder people hate it.
21. anonfordays ◴[] No.41915767{3}[source]
>It absolutely is.

It absolutely isn't.

>Go look at the racial demographics of the neighborhoods where DMVs are being opened and closed.

In Texas (which happens to be the state people are concentration on ITT), it's rural areas and smaller towns, which are mostly White.

>And then ask yourself which racial groups, at large, are more likely to have time in their day to sit at an inconveniently located DMV and what party they most often vote for.

Texas is all appointment driven, you can schedule weeks out so you don't have to wait, and can plan accordingly like everyone else on your day off. Soft bigotry of low expectations.

22. kmeisthax ◴[] No.41915864{5}[source]
Trust me, 2A will be thrown in the trash the moment poor people or minorities start arming themselves again.
23. anonfordays ◴[] No.41916256{3}[source]
Voter IDs are free, they do not disenfranchise the poor.
24. fzeroracer ◴[] No.41916276{4}[source]
“You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,” Ehrlichman said. “We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

John Ehrlichman, White House counsel and assistant to Richard Nixon