Even though I had disabled all 'restore' applications features, macos sometimes decides to 'start' browsers BEFORE logging in after a restart AND those start auto-playing audio from whatever was paused before the reboot (or many days before).
Since then I went rather deep disabling that feature, but I never trusted it.
To clarify, because commenters seem to be misunderstanding my point: I’m not defending the functionality, I think it’s wrong. My sole quarrel is with the characterisation that Apple is selling it as a feature, when they’re not. Let’s not ascribe wrong (or at best unknown) motivations to behaviours, as that makes is less likely they will be fixed.
The only explanation is that you restarted whilst having the "Open All Previous Application" checkbox enabled. And yes it will launch processes after you have logged in but before the Desktop is shown.
Either that you or you have some launch daemon that is opening a browser.
In the long run, they barter this goodwill for "Safari is shit" credit until they and Google force the internet until a browser-turned App-Play-Store war.
Both companies win, and can blame the other company - all while incentivising anti-competition behavior and benefiting from their own organizational, yet altruistic, self-interests happening to coincidentally collude in similar, yet distinctly more complicated cases of creating monopolies spanning multiple domains.
The internet was captured, gamified, commoditized, and vertically integrated into a handful of giga-Corps.
your mobile devices are essentially tracking devices you are addicted to, and the government is too interested in these shiny grandiose things and their use in facilitating government functions without any real consequence, they fail to see the systematic risks that they themselves have allowed to proliferate by not enforcing stricter laws for systematically - exploitable intersections of law, technology, and business.
Seems like a huge security bug. This isn’t being exploited? Wild stuff.
Reminds me of when you could hear a FaceTime call coming through but if you chose not to answer it, no worries! Your iPhone will turn on your camera anyway! And send your video to the calling party!
It's like being literally unable to dog
Opening a laptop, even if the last activity was blaring obnoxious carnival music, should _allow_, not _demand_ the user to resume their last function - which was explicitly to _pause_ the laptop, by closing the lid.
If I close the lid, I am done with the computer and video; it is obvious that I am done right now - the OS/browser would be alerted of LidDown, and I would expect the OS to tell the browser to Pause (via some new javascript media API that I am sure exists), pagefile ram if possible/needed, and dump all console.logs to a temp directory, in case restarting from hibernation goes awry.
If I open the lid, I am attempting to use the computer. The previous quest can be pertinent or moot; but it would be oddly assumptive (against the ethos of general computing) to _automagically_ resume (especially a paused) playback just from first button press - at least give me the option to explore, format, or rename the thing.
I've had Windows do something similar, a media player deciding to unpause when coming up from hibernate (this was before Windows seemingly broke hibernate) and for some reason being at full volume, and it was a fair few seconds before I was able to login, get to that app, and hit pause again. It didn't leak anything sensitive (Hey everyone, this guy watches Stargate!) but it made me “that guy we all hate” on the train… Again it is the app that is responsible for making the sound, but I think at that point the OS shouldn't let it.
<glasses tint="rose">I miss the times when laptops had physical volume sliders…</galsses>
To me this has the feeling of making a mountain out of a molehill, but I don't think there is any denying that the molehill itself exists and to others it might be more than the very minor irritation it could be to me.
> I bet that if you configured the browser to never auto-play, this wouldn’t happen.
I bet that no matter how tightly you try to control that, some advertiser will find a way to override it to make sound play, and sods law says that will happen when you most want your waking laptop to be quiet. Blocking audio while not signed in at the OS level is a safer gate.
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[0] Actually, there is an exception there: if the machine has locked due to input inactivity, I want audio I'm listening to continue and notification pips to come through. There is a distinction between OS restarting (from [re]boot, wake, etc.) and local console not logged in due to input timeout, in how I'd prefer things to behave.
My only quarrel is with the other user implying Apple is selling this as a feature. I have my fair share of criticism of Apple and other tech companies, but let’s please not let blind hate take over and dilute arguments.
I was under the impression that until you provide the password after a reboot, the system should know nothing about you as all user data should be encrypted, so it should not know what apps you had open before reboot let alone start playing sound.
It has never happened before...
That said, there should probably be a checkbox in system settings to disable login “prewarming”.
>"they fail to see the systematic risks"
Or they also fail at providing a solution.
Since it's not "Safari" that's broken (since iPhones cost a lot of money, they cant break), the users will lie blame at the fault of the web developers, since they had gotten cozy within the comfortable, flexible, expected behaviors of Chrome, having enjoyed a hiatus from IE11 EOL pollyfills and jquery.
Apple then made it easier to roll out an app than to grapple with the pitfalls, nuances, foot-guns, and gabbling documentation that Safari has carefully mal-compiled to shepherd both developers and their users into the Walled Garden.
It's just the browser wars, but with higher stakes. And Microsoft already won.
I know some people are tired of all the prompts but I don’t think apps should be able to change those associations without first prompting the user.
yeah, because the only kid bigger, told them to knock it off, as to not hamper their own racket.
If you think a mega-corp won't go AWOL and attempt a Banana Republic/Dutch East India Company again, but with more proxies, lawyers, SAM's, and corrupt officials to "YAS" them into integration, then you really haven't been paying attention to what globalization is really about.
The US had to ask for money back from the oil barons.
Bezos/Musk/Zuck/{untold billionaires} will have much better bargaining chips when they possess the monopoly on surveillance, money, and influence, and have proxy chairs at the U.N.
And I bet those countries would be better run in every way.
Windows 7 with Youtube can figure out - even with hibernation breaking audio/bluetooth on windows - then surely the most expensive company and OS 15 years later has made an inkling of progress (if that was ever their intention)
Corporations do not force you to pay taxes YET. When the corporations get in total control and you cannot even vote just wait to see what a slave you are.
MNCs are like local governments levying property taxes.
e.g. you need a phone much like you have to live somewhere. Your "Tech Government" is determined by a highly constrained choice like your local civil government is determined by your zip code. Maybe you can move at great disruption and cost but it's only to the jurisdiction of another government and some variation of autocratic laws and taxes.
However, you have no vote and there is no pretence at serving your interests. You are not a citizen but cattle to be farmed... just maximal exploitation to please the mighty Mammon.
Is this something you know firsthand or something you think you know because a huge amount of money has gone into spreading that message for political purposes? Anyone who’s worked for or with a multi-national knows that they’re hardly as efficient as the marketing would have you believe, and anyone who’s looked at libertarian media knows that it’s almost entirely funded by rich people seeking tax & regulatory reductions, banking on you confusing their interests with your own.
Bluetooth and wireless radios stay on for a longer while because to keep everything connected if you are moving from room to room at home or at work, also it's made possible because all radios are higher end models with their independent processors.
Having short startup times is bad now? ...because of "instant gratification"? The rest of your rant might make sense in the broader context of what big tech is doing, but bringing it up in this thread and implying that it's part of a conspiracy where "The internet was captured, gamified, commoditized, and vertically integrated into a handful of giga-Corps" is unhinged.
If you're choosing "reboot" rather than "shut down", presumably you intend to continue using the machine, so it's reasonably safe to keep credentials around. AFAIK windows has the same feature.
There's a way to block that entirely for "secure' apps, but iOS could be smarter about this, and cache some stripped down view or expire that cache quicker.
what kind of answer is that exactly?
I would much prefer they fix the issue, yes, the stuff I'm using is provided by Apple and it's been paid off in full, I don't know what made people believe that it's ok if software sucks...
If a train company causes an accident they are considered liable if a software company leaks my data they should be considered liable, it's as simple as that, no need for this anti government stands that frankly make adults look like angry teenagers with a bad bladder
Speaking of competence devoid of context misses the point. They are resembling each other greatly in the sense of misaligned incentives with their "users", which supersedes run-of-the-mill competence in terms of importance in this context. I'm not going to give points to some moron who is swimming competently in the wrong direction.
> MNCs also don't force you to pay taxes or buy their products.
An oddly naive comment given all that has been written about how Amazon operates, to give one example.
I didn't test sleep/wake consciously while I docked my laptops, but I don't remember they start making sounds when they should be silent. Maybe you're seeing PowerNap cycles, but mine is not doing any noise in PowerNap, either.
Need to test with leaving Firefox playing something and see what it does.
...all in all, interesting sentiments. I'm using these things for ~15 years at this point, and while they did funny things in the past, this was not one of them.
So wrong. Every dollar that $FOO_COMPANY shovels to Google and Apple to spend on advertising is a dollar that you, the consumer, end up footing the bill for; a dollar that does not go towards improving the product you receive in any way whatsoever.
The advertising industry itself is a tax on the price of everything.
This is the last thing I would expect. Quite the contrary, when I reboot (rather than log out or sleep), I expect the machine to clear it's memory completely.
No, I would like a competent government intervention. Those happen, even if some would rather believe otherwise.
But apparently it does! shrug
So why tell the user that they need to log in first? If they are the only user account on the system and the OS can access the user's files and apps without logging in, why have the user event set a password in the first place? It seems like a fake login, a false sense of security. And a massive security issue. If the user can just open the lid and that means that code is now running under their own account but they have not authorized a log in, that's just dangerous.
The comment only advances two causes.
> Which is that it could be a launch daemon. It's very common for third party apps to use their imagination and do dumb things on startup.
Yes, that's possible, but unlikely to be an exhaustive list of reasons. Especially since in this case it's about browser tabs playing stuff before logging in, not about any weird third part apps.
> [...] the consumer, end up footing the bill for; a dollar that does not go towards improving the product you receive in any way whatsoever.
Huh? You could make the same argument against providing free coffee for employees. Every dollar the company spends on coffee is one that they didn't spend on anything else..
And, obviously, ads go towards improving the improving the product I receive: without ads, I might have bought a different product or none at all.
Not all ad spend improves my experience, obviously, but neither does all spend on everything else. And I don't have to buy a product, if I don't like the ads.
Any sources for that? From all the studies (and anecdotes) I've seen, MNCs are vastly more competent that most local companies, and the latter are also _usually_ still more competent than government.
How they are financed is up to the operators. Perhaps they want tolls, perhaps local stores want to chip in to improve their business? Perhaps something else that would take someone more than 30 seconds to imagine?
(In any case, roads being provided by local government isn't all that bad. It's relatively easy to change your local government by moving from one town to the next. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity)
I don't live in the US, and don't pay taxes for that. Most of the things you mention aren't even public goods. (See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_good_(economics))
In any case, I grew up in Germany and have adopted Singapore as my home. And in comparison I am very happy that my overall tax rates here are perhaps a third of what they would be in Germany, while the services provided here are at least three times as good. (But the latter is subjective.)
Not incidentally, Singapore is perhaps the most well run city on the globe, and the place most run like an MNC.
> Corporations do not force you to pay taxes YET. When the corporations get in total control and you cannot even vote just wait to see what a slave you are.
Huh? That seems about as relevant as making an analogous argument against current real world governments by pointing out that someone might clone Stalin.
Yes, theoretically possible, but rather far-fetched.
But you are right that more local government has advantages over more centralised government. For example, it's easier to change your local government, if you don't like it: just move to the next town over.
> Corporations as viewed from the inside are wildly incompetent [...]
Corporations have varying levels of efficiency. MNCs are by and large _fairly_ competent.
Of course, if you see them from the inside, there's still enough weird and incompetent stuff going on.
Compare to how western militaries have their fair share of screw ups, but they still wipe the floor with non-western militaries, whenever there's any conflict.
There's plenty of studies comparing the quality of management in local companies versus multinational corporations. See eg https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11f0019m/11f0019m2020008...
You have definitely maimed and killed a non-zero amount of humans indirectly by the stochastic math that tallies the bodies on your Luxury products.
We are bias. Your gas wouldn't be less than $10 a gallon if we didn't drop $10b a year policing the Canals, Gulfs, and ports.
The higher your standard of living, the more dependencies, the more complexities, the more abstractions, and more susceptible to changes/perturbations until the "millionaire if not for taxes" thinks he can go without the "taxation without representation" route.
Don't buy Apple products?
at least until they clear their act...
https://www.npr.org/2015/03/29/395811510/how-singapore-becam...
"Some of the biggest sectors domestically — shipbuilding, electronics, banking, and now they're very involved in private banking — got their start because Lee Kuan Yew and the government specially directed state funds into those areas," Kurlantzick says.
The government also provided social services like housing and health care, in a way liberal economists applauded."
"He understood the politics of this very diverse place, and put together the laws, including the labor laws, that created a stable, peaceful place that multinationals were looking for," Lim says.
And it is good for you, but what about people who are not you?
"People live well, but the per capita GDP conceals a high level of inequality, so that is definitely a major issue in Singapore today and one of the things that the current prime minister has focused on," he says.
With how modern macbooks and many other laptops work nowadays, you are rarely fully turning off the device and simply hibernating it constantly which keeps everything loaded in memory.
I don't deny there are security implications. But it's an Apple design choice. lol
> By and large, governments are still vastly less competent than multinational corporations.
I just agreed with them. Adopring the level of competence of governments, when governments are not competent, doesn't imply an upward movement.
When you close the lid, macOS directly sleeps, shutting down fans in ~10 seconds if you have them, reaching S3 (Suspend to RAM) state. Radios stay alive a little longer to keep any BT/Wireless connections to speed things up if you're just moving places, then they go dark as well.
If you enabled PowerNap on charging, your laptop will wake up briefly after some time (Every hour or so) after you plug it in, check mails if Apple Mail is open, check for any system updates, and sleep if there's none after fetching the mails (It'll download the updates if there are any, IIRC). If you have setup Time Machine, and the drive is available (locally or via network), PowerNap will wake the system and take a backup every 24 hours, making sure that your backups are always up to date.
Per factory settings, PowerNap on battery is off, so it'll sleep without any disturbance up to a month or so, and will hibernate when the battery is low.
So, yes, the laptop sleeps as soon as you close the lid. But wakes up periodically to make sure that everything is fetched and ready (if it's connected to power, by default).
BTW, There's an actual method called Power Nap involving short naps to recharge. It's not an Apple naming gimmick [0].