Most active commenters
  • aucisson_masque(4)
  • ben_w(3)

←back to thread

135 points andsoitis | 42 comments | | HN request time: 1.665s | source | bottom
1. aucisson_masque ◴[] No.41853580[source]
> Can we overcome ageing?

75% American are overweight..

Just let it sink a second, they speak about how many baby born after 2000 will reach 100 years old, how we are reaching the absolute limit of human survival.

75% overweight... Everyone know fat people don't live long. I bet all the studies done in the 90's that predicted we would easily be able to reach 100 years old didn't take that into account.

replies(6): >>41853665 #>>41853666 #>>41853689 #>>41854356 #>>41855406 #>>41856184 #
2. Zenzero ◴[] No.41853665[source]
There is probably a distinction to be made between

"here is the theoretical limit given adherence to modern recommendations on cardiovascular health, exercise, etc."

and

"you all didn't listen and got fat instead"

3. Barrin92 ◴[] No.41853666[source]
> Everyone know fat people don't live long.

studies estimate that moderate obesity takes about 2-3 years of life expectancy (defined as having a BMI of 30-35), only people with severe obesity (BMI of 40-45+) lose on average 6-13 years, comparable to smoking.

Given that severe obesity is still uncommon even in the rich world it only has a small impact on life expectancy overall.

replies(1): >>41853676 #
4. bamboozled ◴[] No.41853676[source]
Combined with getting in your car and driving absolutely everywhere (most Americans)?
replies(2): >>41853921 #>>41855423 #
5. scarby2 ◴[] No.41853689[source]
I'm thinking that ozempic and zepbound will have something to say about this. When ozempic becomes available as a generic (2032) it's going to be available for $10 a dose and a huge amount of people will be taking it.
replies(2): >>41853798 #>>41853842 #
6. Muromec ◴[] No.41853798[source]
Wait, doing amphetamines for weight loss is cool again and has no drawbacks of it's own?
replies(3): >>41853996 #>>41854023 #>>41854361 #
7. MichaelZuo ◴[] No.41853842[source]
How do you know they don’t have side effects that would reduce max life expectancy?
replies(4): >>41853873 #>>41854420 #>>41854840 #>>41856017 #
8. generalizations ◴[] No.41853873{3}[source]
Entirely possible they do - but those effects would probably manifest in some fashion earlier than actual death. We'll have at least 7 years to see if we can spot them. But, even if they do exist, they will probably be small (given we haven't found them so far), and the positive effect on life expectancy via weight loss is huge.

i.e. the benefits of the weight loss almost certainly outweigh any side effects that are likely to manifest.

9. asdff ◴[] No.41853921{3}[source]
This is what people also don't realize. When these sorts of people get old they become immobile as they lose what precious little of actual muscle mass they had and unsupported joints start failing left and right. Sure your life expectancy might only be 2-3 years shy. What about your health span? That's what most people are actually interested in extending when they talk about living longer.
replies(1): >>41854021 #
10. llm_trw ◴[] No.41853996{3}[source]
Welcome to the 80s part 2. Hope you enjoy the ride.
replies(1): >>41854467 #
11. bamboozled ◴[] No.41854021{4}[source]
Yeah, this is why I lift everyday and I plan too until I can no longer do it. Lifting is also good for mobility if done correctly. Especially deep squats.

Hunched over old people do not have the muscle mass to help keep them upright, I guess amongst other things.

replies(2): >>41854636 #>>41856093 #
12. NemoNobody ◴[] No.41854023{3}[source]
I don't think ozempic is amphetamines.
13. EasyMark ◴[] No.41854356[source]
That’s a bizarre hill to die on, I see all kinds of larger people survive into their 90s when I was living near and volunteering at a nursing home as a teenager
replies(3): >>41854658 #>>41854786 #>>41854860 #
14. EasyMark ◴[] No.41854361{3}[source]
Ozempic isn’t anywhere near the amphetamine class of weight control prescriptions, where are you getting your misinformation from?
15. positr0n ◴[] No.41854420{3}[source]
People have been taking them for decades for other reasons, so if they had side effects reducing max life expectancy worse than being overweight surely we'd know by now.
replies(1): >>41856134 #
16. llamaimperative ◴[] No.41854467{4}[source]
Ozempic et al are nothing like amphetamines. They definitely have side-effects but we have far, far more evidence that the benefits are outweighed than we did for stimulants in the 80s.
replies(1): >>41855511 #
17. lovethevoid ◴[] No.41854636{5}[source]
Lifting does very little for mobility.
replies(2): >>41855112 #>>41855194 #
18. WillPostForFood ◴[] No.41854658[source]
I see all kinds of larger people survive into their 90s

So dangerous to extrapolate from anecdotal observation like this. If I see old people smoking, doesn't mean smoking is safe. It just means it doesn't kill at 100% effectiveness.

replies(1): >>41855031 #
19. dyauspitr ◴[] No.41854786[source]
I see “plenty” of life long smokers making it to their 80s and 90s too, that doesn’t mean it didn’t take out 90% of them along the way.
20. renewiltord ◴[] No.41854840{3}[source]
We don’t know if MMR doesn’t but we still give kids[0] the vaccine in infancy. The vaccine is too young (<60 y old). So I suppose ask yourself what proof you need and why.

0: most kids, I just got the disease instead and the vax later

replies(2): >>41855479 #>>41856356 #
21. renewiltord ◴[] No.41854860[source]
That’s the funny thing: at homes and nursing homes all around America you will find WW2 veterans. One could conclude that WW2 wasn’t dangerous from that, I suppose.
22. koolba ◴[] No.41855031{3}[source]
> It just means it doesn't kill at 100% effectiveness.

If you wait long enough, everything has a 100% effectiveness.

replies(1): >>41855159 #
23. andsoitis ◴[] No.41855112{6}[source]
> Lifting does very little for mobility.

Weightlifting can improve mobility by:

- strengthening muscles around joints allowing for more controlled movement.

- increasing flexibility: Dynamic movements in weightlifting, like squats, lunges, and overhead presses, can stretch and strengthen muscles simultaneously, improving flexibility over time.

- improving joint health because loading the joints with resistance can increase the production of synovial fluid, which helps lubricate joints and promote better movement.

- promoting balance and coordination because exercises often challenge stability and coordination, which can help improve motor control and range of motion in everyday movements.

24. rKarpinski ◴[] No.41855159{4}[source]
if you wait long enough, obesity actually becomes a protective factor for serious issues; like Falling & Sarcopenia.
25. theshackleford ◴[] No.41855194{6}[source]
My neurosurgeon and my rehabilitation program would both disagree with you.
26. throwaway2037 ◴[] No.41855406[source]
To be clear, it looks like the health stat term "overweight" means anything greater than "normal", which includes obese.

Quick Google search:

    > what percent of australians are overweight?
First hit:

    > Over the last decade, the proportion of adults who were overweight or obese has increased from 62.8% in 2011–12 to 65.8% in 2022.
Source: https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/health/health-conditions-a....

US NIH says: 73.1% are overweight (includes obese). Ref: https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statisti...

Sure, 73.1% > 65.8%, but Australia is still plenty overweight. Both are appalling.

27. throwaway2037 ◴[] No.41855423{3}[source]
Why do people on HN think the US is special about (quantity of) driving? All wealthy non-microstate nations are driving nations. And, they drive a lot. That includes Australia.
replies(1): >>41856040 #
28. izend ◴[] No.41855479{4}[source]
We do know MMRV causes more seizures in kids than MMR and countries (like Canada) still choose to administer the vaccine with riskier outcomes due to costs and the fact parents don’t like to come back for more shots.
29. llm_trw ◴[] No.41855511{5}[source]
Every decade or two I hear this about some wonder drug only for them to turn out just as bad as what they were replacing. The opioid epidemic being the latest one.
replies(1): >>41856917 #
30. aucisson_masque ◴[] No.41856017{3}[source]
A study by researchers from the University of British Columbia (Canada) shows a link between drugs intended for diabetics and severe gastrointestinal diseases: pancreatitis, intestinal obstruction, biliary pathologies and gastroparesis.

Only fools would convince themselves a drug has no sideeffect.

The worst is that these drugs were created for legitimate use but are now being abused by what I would call lazy fat who can't get their finger out of their arse and start eating healthy.

When there is a natural, effective and no side effects alternative, why go the medication way.

replies(1): >>41856225 #
31. aucisson_masque ◴[] No.41856040{4}[source]
Bicycle are pretty common in Europe, infrastructures are designed around it and pedestrian since the middle 90's.

Most people still have a car but you wouldn't think about taking the car to go buy bread for instance.

32. aucisson_masque ◴[] No.41856093{5}[source]
Lifting is universally recommended to keep you healthy as you age, that and 30 min of moderate to intense cardio per day.
33. hackernewds ◴[] No.41856134{4}[source]
have they? why are they only gaining prominence now?
replies(1): >>41856194 #
34. watwut ◴[] No.41856184[source]
Being slightly overweight is associated with longer lifespan. Really look it up, the longest lifespan is slightly overweight and top of normal bmi. Lifespan gets down when you move toward obese, somewhere in the middle of overweight segment.

The worst life expectations are in underweight category.

35. ben_w ◴[] No.41856194{5}[source]
Because they have been made available for weight loss.

Viagra's original purpose was for heart conditions, that purpose didn't make the headlines (or spam folders) either.

replies(1): >>41856868 #
36. ben_w ◴[] No.41856225{4}[source]
When I was at university, I made a game of spending as little as possible on food. 50p/day. Didn't realise until someone here refused to believe me, that my diet then was about 1100 kcal/day during term time. Didn't feel bad at all.

A few years after graduation, for unrelated reasons, I was on antidepressants. I massively over-ate, became obese, gained stretch marks that will likely remain for life.

There was no voice in my head telling me I was even over-eating, there was no awareness of what I was doing to myself even when I felt the weird tingle in my belly that in retrospect was the tearing flesh that has the outward sign of a stretch mark — I ate without thought.

There is no "natural, effective" solution, because our natural instincts are at odds with our unnatural world.

replies(2): >>41856380 #>>41856720 #
37. sph ◴[] No.41856356{4}[source]
A vaccine is very different than a hormone taken daily.
38. sph ◴[] No.41856380{5}[source]
So the solution is to take a hormone so we can still eat all the junk food we massively produce?

Ozempic is exactly the type of drug Unilevel/Nestlé would create if they were tasked with reducing obesity. I wonder if they'll include a free 7 day dose of it with Mars bars.

replies(1): >>41856929 #
39. Elinvynia ◴[] No.41856720{5}[source]
There really is no natural solution if you are taking medication that increases your weight. Kinda disproving your own example there.
40. tuatoru ◴[] No.41856868{6}[source]
Almost. Pulmonary hypertension, high blood pressure in the arteries of the lungs. Pretty close to the heart.
41. ywvcbk ◴[] No.41856917{6}[source]
Do you pay more attention to those and ignore the actual success stories?

The opioids thing is hardly comparable. Everybody clearly knew the risks (for the past 100+ years) and chose to ignore them. This is an almost entirely new type of drugs.

42. ben_w ◴[] No.41856929{6}[source]
It reduces food intake by lowering appetite.

That's pretty much the exact opposite of what you seem to think it does, and is exactly the kind of thing that will hurt Nestlé's junk food line. (Though probably not their bottled tap water line).