Most active commenters
  • soulofmischief(12)
  • zmgsabst(3)
  • willcipriano(3)

←back to thread

FBI Crime Data Explorer

(cde.ucr.cjis.gov)
54 points animal_spirits | 33 comments | | HN request time: 1.07s | source | bottom
Show context
Bostonian[dead post] ◴[] No.38239738[source]
[flagged]
1. soulofmischief ◴[] No.38239773[source]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_S...

Explanations for racial discrepancies include:

- Discrimination by law enforcement

- Childhood exposure to violence

- Inability to post bail

- Socioeconomic factors

- Housing segregation

- Sociocultural factors

This is pretty well-known stuff. Please educate yourself.

replies(8): >>38239816 #>>38239833 #>>38239843 #>>38239847 #>>38239856 #>>38239861 #>>38240183 #>>38241484 #
2. askin4it ◴[] No.38239816[source]
You forgot something. Also you look foolish telling people to educate themselves on Wikipedia

(

- Discrimination by law enforcement OR - Childhood exposure to violence OR - Inability to post bail OR - Socioeconomic factors OR - Housing segregation OR - Sociocultural factors

)

AND

(bad personal choices)

replies(2): >>38239854 #>>38239924 #
3. zmgsabst ◴[] No.38239847[source]
None of that changes that the disproportionate statistics about arrest and police violence stem from disproportionate criminality.

They’re reasons why that disproportionate criminality happens.

Also, that discrepancies in outcomes are caused by differences in behavior between groups isnt “well known” — and is even lied about in the US media.

replies(1): >>38239901 #
4. soulofmischief ◴[] No.38239854[source]
I look foolish for telling people to begin their research on a common, well-established public encyclopedia?

Do you seriously not understand that each of these issues lead to bad personal choices? Your comment does not seem to be made in good faith, and this is the sort of mentality that we as a society need to eradicate.

replies(1): >>38243476 #
5. carstenhag ◴[] No.38239861[source]
I hope no one is arguing with "a person's skin color influences how much criminal energy they get born with".

With your cited explanations, it seems to be easy to generalise and say "a black person that I meet will be more criminal than the next white person that I meet", just because of the reasons you listed, except for law enforcement & the bail thing. Which also seems wrong to me.

replies(1): >>38239887 #
6. soulofmischief ◴[] No.38239862[source]
Which facts are those?
replies(1): >>38239881 #
7. lakpan ◴[] No.38239881{3}[source]
> White 44% Black 43% Unknown 10%

From the FBI’s website.

replies(1): >>38239890 #
8. soulofmischief ◴[] No.38239887[source]
The best way to interpret the data is to be conscious of the fact that individuals you interact with or cast judgement upon might not be dealing with nearly the same world that you deal with. That they may be more predisposed to certain negative outcomes. It is too easy to take this for granted.

I'm not black but I can list several factors that contribute to my own such predispositions, such as having drug addicted parents who were not present in my life, living with extremely abusive, cultist guardians, being homeless at 16, etc. The fact of life is that we must recognize these probabilities if we have any hope of improving our own conditions, or the conditions of others.

replies(1): >>38239914 #
9. soulofmischief ◴[] No.38239890{4}[source]
Where did I "downplay" this statistic?
replies(1): >>38239922 #
10. soulofmischief ◴[] No.38239901[source]
> None of that changes that the disproportionate statistics about arrest and police violence stem from disproportionate criminality.

> They’re reasons why that disproportionate criminality happens

This is an extremely tautological statement, unless you misspoke.

replies(2): >>38240055 #>>38240187 #
11. jtdev ◴[] No.38239914{3}[source]
“Sorry that you were violently attacked, but please consider the socioeconomic factors.”
replies(1): >>38240082 #
12. lakpan ◴[] No.38239922{5}[source]
You (or others) downvoted the comment and you invited the commenter to “educate themselves”, as to say they just told BS.
13. partitioned ◴[] No.38239924[source]
Libertarian comment that blames every effect on individual agency. A canon event.
14. t-3 ◴[] No.38240055{3}[source]
It's not a tautology, it's a feedback loop. If a group has or is perceived to have a higher rate of criminality, they will be treated in ways which reinforce criminal tendencies and promote more criminal behavior. A "self-fulfilling prophecy", if you will.
15. willcipriano ◴[] No.38240082{4}[source]
"What are you doing about the socioeconomic factors then?"

"Can't afford it, have to send billions to Israel and Ukraine."

replies(1): >>38243923 #
16. trident5000 ◴[] No.38240183[source]
Oh boy, here we go. The endless excuses. Excuses instead of accountability just perpetuates situations like this and actually prevents any change.
replies(1): >>38245438 #
17. zmgsabst ◴[] No.38240187{3}[source]
That’s not a tautology: understanding the root cause of a problem is necessary to implement a beneficial response.

In this particular case, we need to intervene at the cultural, familial, etc levels rather than harassing police for responding to crime as it happens — or blaming them for treating groups disproportionately when those groups act disproportionately.

“De-policing” stems from ignorance (or intentional denial) of that root cause, and thus amounts to blaming the police/courts/etc for doing their job — stopping crime.

replies(1): >>38245445 #
18. YiraldyGuber ◴[] No.38241484[source]
Have you ever stopped to consider how unlikely it would be that tens of thousands of years of divergent evolution, resulting in all manner of visible, tangible and quantifiable differences between the races, could somehow magically have absolutely no effect on anything beyond the superficial? That is an extraordinary claim.

Especially when we have so much data that confirms, rather than dispels, this inevitability.

19. askin4it ◴[] No.38243476{3}[source]
People have agency. Just like now when you used your agency and called for my eradication.

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the future. Of course, I won't be around to enjoy it with you, but this guy seems like great company, so enjoy.

replies(1): >>38245434 #
20. plagiarist ◴[] No.38243923{5}[source]
How disingenuous! The people trying to do something about socioeconomic factors are blocked from doing anything of significance by the same people apoplectic over aid to Ukraine.

More correctly: "sorry, we have to give billions of dollars in handouts to the wealthy instead."

replies(1): >>38244200 #
21. willcipriano ◴[] No.38244200{6}[source]
Twenty plus years of losing foreign wars that were not only unnecessary but they didn't even have a clear objective (that both parties whole heartedly supported). Let me know when you get around to the socioeconomic factors, I've been waiting my entire life.
replies(2): >>38245424 #>>38246019 #
22. soulofmischief ◴[] No.38245424{7}[source]
Friend, America is a warring state. We explicitly, intentionally ignore domestic issues while writing legislation that benefits the wealthy class, and then use foreign crises to distract the population from doing something about it.
23. soulofmischief ◴[] No.38245434{4}[source]
Are you so sheltered that you cannot draw a link between one's environment & upbringing, and impaired agency?
24. soulofmischief ◴[] No.38245438[source]
Please, enlighten me on the solution instead of complaining.
25. soulofmischief ◴[] No.38245445{4}[source]
I never made any comments about de-policing, that is a projection on your part. I have personally witnessed extreme police racism growing up in a small town.

I have personally been illegally harassed by police and an entire corrupt court system, illegally charged with a crime I did not commit, and was refused a chance to appeal because my lawyer was worried the judge would be mad at her for not playing along. I was given the maximum possible jail sentence of 6 months on my first criminal offense for a crime I didn't commit. And this happens every day, disproportionately to particular demographics. You have no idea what you are talking about.

replies(1): >>38245766 #
26. zmgsabst ◴[] No.38245766{5}[source]
I didn’t say you did — I gave an example of how what I said is not a tautology by showing how that concept relates to policy decisions, eg de-policing versus other interventions.

Accusing me of not knowing what I’m talking about, based on your personal trauma and your stereotypes about me, isn’t a good faith reply.

Have a great day!

replies(2): >>38248400 #>>38268054 #
27. plagiarist ◴[] No.38246019{7}[source]
What is your point? Ukraine is a line item in the US budget. We spent, what, 20 times that giving handouts to billionaires in 2020?

Let me know when we are allowed to spend money on socioeconomic factors. Literally the only thing holding us back from it are the disingenuous arguments people choose to believe. The same people lecturing about students paying back loans sure did turn a blind eye to PPP forgiveness. Why is that?

replies(1): >>38246380 #
28. willcipriano ◴[] No.38246380{8}[source]
The people committing violent crimes don't have student loans. Paying them off would be a massive upward wealth transfer to the best off, highly educated professionals living in high cost of living areas.
replies(1): >>38248383 #
29. soulofmischief ◴[] No.38248383{9}[source]
Homie, the middle class is rapidly eroding and soon it will only be the hyper-rich and the impoverished, if we cannot make drastic changes to our socioeconomic policy. "Best off" is hardly a descriptor for the average college graduate that I know; Most everyone is struggling.
30. dang ◴[] No.38268054{6}[source]
If you keep posting flamewar comments and personal attacks, we will ban you. You've been doing it a lot lately, and we've already warned you more than once.

These comments in particular were well over the line at which we ban an account:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38170941

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38170594

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38170565

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38170493

I'm not going to ban you for them a week after the fact, but please make sure not to do this again.

(I realize the other user was also being provocative, but that doesn't make it ok to post abusively.)

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

replies(1): >>38274354 #
31. dang ◴[] No.38268058{7}[source]
Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. That only makes things worse.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

replies(1): >>38268238 #
32. soulofmischief ◴[] No.38268238{8}[source]
Noted, thanks for letting me know.
33. ◴[] No.38274354{7}[source]