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    1680 points etbusch | 12 comments | | HN request time: 1.059s | source | bottom
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    nrp ◴[] No.31433602[source]
    I'm happy to answer any questions around this! We've been working on this since update since we launched the product last year, so we're excited to be able to share it today.
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    pimterry ◴[] No.31434972[source]
    What are the constraints that are blocking wider EU availability?

    Right now, in Europe it's only available in a handful of countries (5 of 27). I'm in Spain, and I see I can spec a perfect machine and get it delivered just over the border in France, but I can't get the same thing delivered here just a couple of hours away, which is very surprising! My understanding was the single market & customs union etc should make going from 1 to N EU countries pretty easy.

    Is this due to smoe regulatory issues, or needing to organize shipping differently for every country, or waiting to include an ñ key, or something else?

    Right now, I'm very seriously looking at ordering one, renting a PO box in France and shipping the laptop here myself, which seems a bit ridiculous.

    replies(4): >>31435055 #>>31435400 #>>31435705 #>>31439720 #
    1. loginatnine ◴[] No.31435705[source]
    I'll copy paste a comment I made here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31096793 but I'm also guessing logistics.

    They gave a IMO good overview of the difficulties of selling to a new country in a previous post :

    > With our supply improving, you may be wondering when you can order a laptop if you’re outside of the US and Canada. We selected and are bringing up our worldwide warehousing and fulfillment partner, which is one very key part of the equation, but it takes quite a lot more than that to enable a complete experience in each country. Picking Germany as one example, we need German language keyboards, a Type F power cable, in-box paperwork and labeling in German, localization for the Framework website, support documentation, and checkout flow, support for local payment methods, calculation of Euro prices and taxes, accounting support for German income, creation of legally sound Terms of Sale, Privacy, and Warranty policies for Germany, CE certifications, a local Authorized Representative to back up the certifications, determination of HS codes and tariffs, an Importer of Record to be able to deliver duty paid, German-language in-time-zone customer support, reverse logistics and RMA support for returns and repairs, region-specific sourcing of off the shelf memory and storage, trial builds of German laptops prior to production, and back-end ERP infrastructure to tie all of this together. That sounds like a lot, but it’s actually a drastically simplified summary.

    https://frame.work/ca/en/blog/scaling-up-infrastructure

    replies(2): >>31436607 #>>31441217 #
    2. reaperducer ◴[] No.31436607[source]
    A lot of that sounds like legal and paperwork problems.

    I thought the whole point of the E.U. was to break down those cross-border paint points. Or is it still a work in progress? Can an E.U. person say if this is going to change?

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    3. nicoburns ◴[] No.31436768[source]
    It does help (for example the mentioned CE certification is EU-wide). But it definitely could be better. I'd suggest it's not likely to change significantly any time soon.
    4. TillE ◴[] No.31437467[source]
    The EU means it would be entirely legal and tariff-free for a company in France to ship a product to Spain as-is, with minimal caveats. But that won't be a desirable product for most Spanish customers.

    The vast majority of that list has nothing to do with laws, but with physical requirements (keyboard and power plug), payments (not standardized beyond bank transfers), localization, and logistics.

    replies(2): >>31437612 #>>31438340 #
    5. ◴[] No.31437612{3}[source]
    6. riquito ◴[] No.31438340{3}[source]
    I'd expect a cable C5 to Shucko to work everywhere in Europe (at worst you change the cable for preference to avoid an adapter)
    replies(1): >>31443793 #
    7. oblio ◴[] No.31440497[source]
    It's very much a work in progress, especially since overall progress is happening at the same time.

    27 countries need to coordinate to first agree to grant the EU the power to take over some aspects and then those same 27 countries need to actually do the work, together with the EU, to standardize that aspect. Then the standard needs to be adopted and enforced.

    The EU has less power than a confederation, which is a very weak supra-statal organization. So everything is very, very slow.

    The EU is gradually able to do more and more, but the time frames are decades long.

    8. codethief ◴[] No.31441217[source]
    I'd say they need none of that. Not only is barely anything of that a legal requirement in the EU, it's also a waste of money and resources to set this up in every country when you're mainly addressing pro users and tinkerers.

    I bought & imported a Supernote e-ink tablet from China the other day. The manufacturer offers none of the things mentioned above, heck their support team barely speaks English (but god knows they're trying!). Still everyone on Reddit loves them because they 1) produce a killer product, 2) provide great support when needed (e.g. send you a replacement or fix bugs), and 3) respond to community requests and regularly roll out software updates with fantastic new features.

    replies(2): >>31444683 #>>31444747 #
    9. Arcanum-XIII ◴[] No.31443793{4}[source]
    And would not be acceptable in any other country than Germany legally. Got bitten by that while searching for industrial plug…
    10. jotm ◴[] No.31444683[source]
    It's just dumb, really. Just make an "international" version and ship it from one EU country.

    I can understand not shipping to a "untrustworthy" country like Romania or Poland (lol), but Sweden, Italy, Belgium? Even they register for mail forwarding services in order to buy from Germany (and before, UK).

    It's much easier to buy from AliExpress, the CCP can't believe their luck with us drowning ourselves in redundant regulations while producing there because of lack of them.

    On that note, Russia makes 2/3 of the world's nuclear power plants and they built this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Bridge in THREE YEARS. We can't manage a stupid river bridge for the same budget in a decade.

    11. jotm ◴[] No.31444695[source]
    That's mostly self imposed legal and paper work. They could ship the German version EU wide, but they don't. Because they want to "provide the best experience". You know what would be the best experience? Buying the damn thing without paying extra for mail forwarding.
    12. arc-in-space ◴[] No.31444747[source]
    This. The "complete experience" is nonsense to me. I don't need any of this, aside from a functioning power cable and whatever is required to pass basic legal checks. If you give me documentation that isn't in English it will go in the trash immediately. I definitely do not want your localized keyboard, either.

    Right now you're just forcing people to jump through hoops by not allowing them to directly order from anywhere.