Chinese originated spam and abuse is so outrageously widespread, I don’t understand why there isn’t a conversation going on about cutting them off from the wider internet. They blocked most of it anyway.
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We are already doing this with trade. The amount of leeway and free lunch China has gotten from the west is insane. I don’t blame China, I blame the west and the rest of the world for not preventing it. Asymmetrical policies are often exploited by capitalism and governments have been caught off guard.
I’m not an Anti-China lunatic. It’s just common sense.
In regards to trade war, HN has discussed this ad-nauseum, I think we should restrict the discussion to internet traffic even though I brought it up as an analogy about asymmetric response from the west in general: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=trade+war
Which might not be a bad thing overall, but it's sure not gonna make any transnational corporation's bottom line happy over the next few quarters, so they'll be waving a lot of money at politicians to make this not happen.
It very much echoes the problems of intellectual property theft in China.
The benefits of gobalization and the spread of democracy (or even just alternative governance models) via exposure to other cultures cannot be understated
Blocking the entire country will do little to hurt the government (who can employ state resources to get whatever information they want) and do quite a bit more to harm the Chinese people by reducing whatever level of information independence they still have.
If there is going to be significant change in China, it will have to come from the Chinese people. Cutting them off from the Internet vindictively does not advance that goal.
There are specific people in China doing specific bad things with specific computing resources. It would be far better for the U.S. government to dedicate more resources to finding and partnering with orgs and projects (like icanhazip or Cloudflare) to find the info they need to apply targeted mitigations.
“China does it, so we should do it too” only makes sense as a strategy if our goal is to become exactly like China is today. I don’t think that should be our goal.
It's not really a problem anyway. If some capitalists in the US and Europe don't get to skim off a slice of profit from another country's manufacturing output, then so what?
I very strongly disagree. An eye for an eye is exactly what needs to be done and should have been done from the beginning. Unfortunately, it is too late. 1989 massacre should have been condemned more solidly and trade restrictions should have been placed in the 90's. The bet that western alliances made is that China would open up in the 2000s leading into 2010s. That has gone horribly wrong.
The west is finally waking up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-Parliamentary_Alliance_o...
As long as the truth doesn't match what the preferred narrative is we'll continue to suffer the consequences, which is true of so many things beyond just attitudes towards China.
Also, I'm generally bothered by comments like this one that stir up the general human tendency toward xenophobia. We should be fighting that tendency within ourselves, not fighting the out group. Whichever group of people we want to demonize, we should remember that they're people just like us. We shouldn't punish the majority of them for what a minority are doing to us.
I agree you don’t want to cut them off, but on the other hand, I don’t want 90% of all global malicious traffic to originate from a specific country.
Is that actually true? I guess I'm inclined to believe that claims like that are more likely to be propaganda from western governments and/or western-owned companies.
If it is true, I wonder why their government isn't stopping it. They must realize that it's giving them a bad reputation in the wider world.
That would be one's own culture, whichever one that is.
This sounds like a couple of people I've met, who have a philosophy of "treating people the way they treat me". And what if the other person/side also "believes in reciprocity", what happens then? This seems to rely on other people being nice first, and then always treating them how they treated you, imitating their behaviour, like Tit-for-tat[0]—except Tit-for-tat begins by being nice. It's not easy to put my finger on what seems fishy about that strategy, but it doesn't at all seem the easy solution to being fair and just (or whatever word you most prefer here) its proponents seem to think it is.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat (See particularly "Problems" and the next section)
Maybe that's an acceptable price to pay for not being the ones to take the next step toward war. If war is a game in which "the only winning move is not to play", then maybe it's also true that when it comes to doing the peaceful thing, the only winning move is to keep on playing, even if it hurts us.
It's not racist in China to say the truth, why is it where you are ? You probably live in an oppressive political regime with a biparty dictating what you can think ? :P
If you run a small-medium sized business in the US blocking all of countries you can't do business with anyway will save a ton of trouble.
That network guy (classic long hair "security" guy) was a lazy asshole for doing it then and the internet needs to have the technology to deal with bad actors beyond AS/geo-level blocking now.
Even if just one port is left open, people will be curious enough to find it and use it. Chinese people are humans too :D
Are you sure you're doing your part of the bilateral exchange? It cant just be China changing, the US must learn too to adapt and accept a larger, more powerful country, with a widely different model.
Living in China, I can tell you the american model is known, and not particularly impressive to them. They care a lot less about freedom of speech, maybe because they never had it, than they care qbout order, unity and crime rate for instance. And what I always hear is that throwing themselves at the communists in revolt to get the same shitty system as the US is not so seductive.
Maybe become a role model and people will beg to ressemble you ? I have a hard time convincing them voting for their government is gonna work better because "if even idiots can vote, look at who they elect" :s
When do we accept the fact that Xi's ambitions extend far beyond the borders of Mainland China and pose a threat to the very idea of human dignity?
Is it when he invades Taiwan? Floods the Uyghur camps with gas? Bombs Japan? Lands an army at the port of Darwin?
If this trust is repeatedly broken, peering networks may be forced to depeer the AS as a result, like what happened to McColo when they were depeered.
I sure hope that "just medicine" extends to Po Chai pills. So welcome for treating diarrhea symptoms (despite my initial skepticism) when loperamide wasn't available while I was traveling in China!
Sigh.
Most Chinese internet users would not miss Western internet for a second, a fact you would be aware of if you actually had any insight into Chinese culture.
This attitude that you cannot give consequences to abuse because THINK OF THE POOR CHINESE is so utterly laughable.
Most countries cooperate internationally in getting bad actors from hackers over pirates to pedos booted off the Internet and into jail.
The exceptions are China and Russia who won't do anything against any bad actor and India which is a big base for phone scams (as is Turkey for the European Union, but even Erdogan's regime is cooperating with EU police in taking down scammers).
I agree, the line between demanding at least some sort of common decency standards and xenophobia is thin in these days, but we have to get everyone on board to protect everyone else from rampant abuse.
My reasoning for these kinds of stats is usually: Of course it makes sense to attack targets in jurisdictions which can't catch you or equally hide in a country which won't extradite you. (But I never looked into it to any depth, so it's baseless reasoning.)
Thanks for the blind assumption. I'm Chinese myself.
It's probably totally an option if you want to work for one of those corporations, too.