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206 points pseudolus | 31 comments | | HN request time: 0.861s | source | bottom
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shswkna ◴[] No.45999858[source]
From the article:

> They can also increase suicidal ideation.

A very close family member committed suicide, after Prozac dosage adjustments made his brain chemistry go haywire.

This happened 30 years ago, and it has been known to us that Prozac can cause this, since then.

The Guardians headline is way, way understating the real situation here.

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carsoon ◴[] No.45999887[source]
The problem with suicidal depression is that if someone has created the thought pattern that death is best, then removing the symptoms of depression (lethargy, lack of energy, no willpower) now gives the person the ability to actually follow through with the act.

Medications almost always target symptoms and never address root causes.

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1. fragrom ◴[] No.46000022[source]
This is what my psychiatrist more or less warned me about when I went on medication; that a lot of people who are suicidal lack the energy and ability to plan their suicide, and medications can sometimes undo those particular symptoms and people manage to end themselves.

I'm not sure what kinds of studies have been done about it, but I've had a few therapists same similar ideas. If it's not a studied phenomenon, then it has folks that believe it exists.

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2. doubled112 ◴[] No.46000247[source]
Sometimes willpower improves before mood.
3. autumnstwilight ◴[] No.46000413[source]
I'd like to make the point that even if this does occur, it doesn't mean, "therefore this medication shouldn't be used/is worse than doing nothing," just that awareness and caution is needed.

I went through a frankly terrible few months on my current meds because they removed the emotional numbness before removing the bad feelings. However, once that was over they effectively gave me my life back after 10+ years of continual exhaustion and brain fog.

replies(1): >>46000655 #
4. ◴[] No.46000655[source]
5. DANmode ◴[] No.46001309[source]
Almost like depression is an acute toxicity caused by physiological variance (or infection related) detox inefficiency!
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6. DANmode ◴[] No.46001321[source]
This gets even more interesting when you realize many SSRIs are antibacterials.
replies(1): >>46008403 #
7. Retric ◴[] No.46008285[source]
Depression is likely to have many possible underlying causes.

It’s a description of a persistent set of symptoms not necessarily any specific biological process.

replies(2): >>46008588 #>>46008658 #
8. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.46008403{3}[source]
It gets less interesting when one notices that social animals are much more prone to depression.

Inflammation and depression are linked. Infection causes inflammation. It doesn’t follow that depression is caused by infection.

replies(2): >>46008581 #>>46009179 #
9. DANmode ◴[] No.46008581{4}[source]
Correct.

It’s caused by inflammation,

one of the causes being: detox inefficiency.

replies(2): >>46008613 #>>46008898 #
10. DANmode ◴[] No.46008588{3}[source]
Correct.

and one of the leading causes is what I described.

replies(1): >>46008654 #
11. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.46008613{5}[source]
> It’s caused by inflammation

No, it’s not. Depression can be influenced by inflammation.

This thread is a good example of the GIGO pitfalls that researching with chatbots entails.

replies(1): >>46009217 #
12. mapontosevenths ◴[] No.46008617[source]
What is "detox inefficiency"?

EDIT - I ask because the only results I get when searching are a Harvard article debunking it. I'd rather hear the opinion of someone that actually believes in it before I read about why it's all malarky. I believe in arguing against the best version of someones argument.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-dubious-p...

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13. SketchySeaBeast ◴[] No.46008654{4}[source]
You really have to unpack "detox inefficiency" because even a google search comes back with nothing.
replies(1): >>46008776 #
14. fsckboy ◴[] No.46008658{3}[source]
>Depression is likely to have many possible underlying causes

including adaptive evolutionary procreative success

15. DANmode ◴[] No.46008758{3}[source]
https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/body/glymphatic-system

PS Thanks for keeping this a good place to be!

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

More for the avid reader:

1.) https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7698404/

2.) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/40012567/

3.) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36498538/

replies(1): >>46008880 #
16. DANmode ◴[] No.46008776{5}[source]
When your normal lymphatic processes (and glymphatic processes) are slowed, or near-halted.
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17. criddell ◴[] No.46008829{6}[source]
It might be worth using those words rather than detox inefficiency because the latter conjures thoughts of woo peddlers.
replies(1): >>46009165 #
18. purple_turtle ◴[] No.46008880{4}[source]
Your first linked page has no word "depression" on it
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19. purple_turtle ◴[] No.46008889{6}[source]
Can you link any evidence supporting this claim?
replies(1): >>46009332 #
20. purple_turtle ◴[] No.46008898{5}[source]
Can you link any evidence supporting this claim? This term sounds like a standard-issue woo.
replies(1): >>46009342 #
21. SketchySeaBeast ◴[] No.46009002{6}[source]
Is there a known correlation between lymphedema and depression?
22. DANmode ◴[] No.46009165{7}[source]
Yes,

it turns out toxins (environmental, die-off and waste of cells from infection, dietary, lifestyle) are important to everyone,

not just vegans in Sandler movies.

23. Modified3019 ◴[] No.46009179{4}[source]
I’m not quite following the previous conversation here, but your comment brings to mind that one theory of a possible “function” of depression, is as a “sickness behavior” to help isolate a sick animal from others to protect the group. A sheep or cow getting sick and going off on its own is a common thing.

I’m not sure if it has a technical name or if it’s been rigorously studied, but it’s a common observation which even I’ve seen (and reported to growers I work for).

A casual mention here: http://www.sheep101.info/201/behavior.html

24. DANmode ◴[] No.46009202{5}[source]
It wasn’t intended to.

It was just the best “every man” link I could provide for understanding how efficacy of toxin-clearing (toxicity) could be related to depression, other struggles with homeostasis.

Did you grasp the connection?

25. DANmode ◴[] No.46009217{6}[source]
Yeah, “linked to” is better than “caused by” here, for sure.

Not often this kind of thing comes up on HN, so I was replying in haste at a stoplight!

I’ll ignore the slight, which you should know better than.

replies(2): >>46009462 #>>46011396 #
26. Modified3019 ◴[] No.46009230{6}[source]
Calling it lymphatic impairment would be more straightforward.
replies(1): >>46009328 #
27. DANmode ◴[] No.46009328{7}[source]
Lymphatic inefficiency, maybe.

Impairment sounds too permanent, when this is often an intermittent, “on average” sort of issue - not a complete freeze.

28. DANmode ◴[] No.46009332{7}[source]
Beyond the links in other comments?
29. DANmode ◴[] No.46009342{6}[source]
Replied to your other request too: see other comments, ask for what’s missing for you.
30. amanaplanacanal ◴[] No.46009462{7}[source]
It seems pretty common for people to read "linked to" and interpret that as "caused by". It feels like media had kind of pushed that for a long time.
31. DANmode ◴[] No.46011396{7}[source]
Stopping back in, because I unironically came across someone's almost-surely AI assisted summary that does a better job than I have summarizing the processes being discussed:

== === Why the Sick Get Sicker Most people think illness progresses because of pathogens, toxins, or genetics — but the deeper truth is that tension, stress, and breathing patterns control the trajectory of health more than anything else.

When the body is stressed, the breath changes.

When the breath changes, the lymph stagnates.

When the lymph stagnates, toxins accumulate.

When toxins accumulate, inflammation accelerates.

And that is how sick becomes sicker.

Here’s the breakdown:

1. Stress Immediately Changes Your Breathing Pattern

When the nervous system senses stress — emotional, physical, mental, or energetic — breathing becomes:

• shallow

• rapid

• high in the chest

• tight in the ribs

• limited in diaphragm expansion

This cuts oxygen supply, raises cortisol, and signals the body to brace.

Bracing = stagnation.

2. Your Breath Controls Your Lymphatic System

The lymphatic system is the body’s drainage system, and it has no pump of its own.

It relies entirely on: • diaphragmatic breathing

• muscle movement

• fascia softness

• a calm nervous system

Shallow breathing = no diaphragm movement.

No diaphragm movement = lymph stagnation.

When lymph stagnates:

• waste can’t drain

• toxins recirculate

• inflammation builds

• swelling increases

• the immune system gets overwhelmed

This is why people in long-term stress decline rapidly.

3. Chronic Tension Physically Constricts Detox Pathways

Tension in the shoulders, neck, jaw, abdomen, and ribs acts like a clamp on the lymphatic system.

Chronic tightness:

• blocks lymph nodes

• stiffens fascia

• shuts down circulation

• compresses nerves

• restricts oxygen

• slows detox

The body becomes a closed loop where waste can’t leave — so it begins leaking into tissues, joints, and organs.

This accelerates aging, pain, brain fog, and inflammation.

4. This Is the Progression From Sick → Sicker

When breath + lymph + fascia are blocked:

Phase 1 — Shallow breathing

Fatigue, anxiety, tight chest, poor digestion.

Phase 2 — Lymph stagnation

Swelling, puffiness, inflammatory symptoms, chronic infections.

Phase 3 — Detox recirculation

Migrating symptoms, rashes, headaches, histamine issues, chemical sensitivity.

Phase 4 — Systemic overload

Autoimmune symptoms, mold sensitivity, debilitating fatigue, hormone disruption.

It appears “mysterious,” but physiologically it is predictable.