FreeMDU: Open-source Miele appliance diagnostic tools

I need a new dishwasher. I am considering a German-made Miele.

I’ve read so many horror stories. I don’t think I could consider any other brand.

Miele, Bosch, and Speed Queen do the old-school engineering based on failure analysis and have basically the same reliability as the super-simple machines from the 70s and 80s, so 20 years is a common lifespan with outliers in the 30- and 40-year range. If you adjust for inflation, you find that the super-simple machines from the 70s and 80s cost basically the same as machines from these more expensive brands, so if you care about filling landfills with broken appliances, you should probably consider purchasing them and supporting the business model.

No one would make cost-engineered stuff that fails just outside the warranty if people didn't buy it.

Speed Queen is the ONLY washer dryer brand I would consider. I currently have a Kenmore set from 2001. Works great.

Bosch has been making washing machines where replacing the drum bearings is not supported (the bearings are sealed in a plastic housing) for a while now, not sure if this is the case in all of the models or the cheaper ones only.

Alliance Laundry which makes Speed Queen recently IPOed:

https://ir.alliancelaundry.com/news-events/press-releases/de...

Once a company goes public they tend to focus more on earnings per quarter, causing decision making to be more short-term.

Not great when, as a consumer, you hope to get a product that will last 20+ years.

We had a Samsung dishwasher. Took exactly 5 years for it to spill water to the floor.

Now we have a Miele, as we do have their laundry machine and fridge already. The laundry machine is soon 20 years old, been doing laundry around 5-6 times every week and works still like new. The fridge is supposedly built by Liebherr. It feels really high quality: the door handle feels nice and locks the door properly. There are multiple different temperature areas that hold the temperature quite steady.

The dishwashers have certain tiers. I don't know if it makes sense to pay for the TwinDos detergent system: you can wash dishes without filling detergent. The detergent is proprietary and quite expensive. Sadly if you want to connect the dishwasher to your home assistant, that feature is only in the most expensive models. The door that opens automatically when the program is done is great though. You can do the eco program which is quite slow, but it spends the last hours just the door open, and in the morning you have clean and dry dishes with minimal water and energy use.

Oh no... better buy one now if you have the chance.

You can refill detergent cartridge if you want. There are sds datasheets so it's possible to select something similar

bought a few years pretty much top of the line miele. works great. ability to insert cartridge and just to forget about having to add detergent for a few weeks is amazing

Pass. I replaced an early 00s Whirlpool/Maytag/Kenmore top loader a few years ago and had SQ front loaders at a previous place. The top loader needed a tub that was difficult to find and expensive ($400+).

The SQs were very noisy, not super reliable, and didn't seem to clean that well. The SQs that built their reputation were the old top loaders with minimal electronics. Plenty of really obnoxious problems with the current TR series, dunno if the current TCs are as good as the old ones… and I still couldn't imagine living with one of those in my home.

The Electrolux front loader that I've got now has all the benefits of a front loader and does a good job cleaning. If I hadn't been burned by LG I'd probably consider one of their front loaders that everyone seems to fawn over.

Samsung is bottom tier across the board for white goods. If it uses fire, electricity, and/or water you're best looking elsewhere. There's plenty of room to buy something decent without having to pay the full price of Miele. I do love my "old" Miele stick vac tho.

We’ve had our Miele dishwasher for 5 years. Running on average 1.5 times a day. It’s flawless.

Here in the UK the customer service has been amazing. The company we bought from (AO.com) installed it incorrectly (the water pipe plug wasn’t removed) they told us to get stuffed. We called Miele. They sent someone to us the next day and fixed it free of charge

It's not that much more expensive though. And the quality just feels better. If you love to spend time in kitchen, these small details make you appreciate the time even more.

Yeah premium stuff feels nice, as it should given the price. In this case "not that much more" is somewhere north of a 50% premium over mid-range models from the leading brands. If you're cross shopping Samsung then the premium is much larger since they're constantly on deep discount due to their well earned reputation.

I paid $1,100 for my Bosch 500 series dishwasher a couple years ago. The current generation looks like it's on sale for as low as $800. Yale Appliance shows Miele dishwashers currently starting at $1,400. With that kind of premium it should feel better. And, yes, the Bosch feels super cheap.

Miele washing machines start at $1,600 about twice what an entry level LG would cost. While I would never buy an LG, they are generally well regarded in terms of actual washing performance.

>free of charge

I think you mean "included in price", and for double the price they can sure afford it.

We paid 1000€ for a Miele dishwasher, the cheapest model is 800€. You can get a Bosch for 500€ right now, but these are black Friday deals (the site says the original price is over 1300€, but I doubt they never sell them that expensive). Although they seem to be on sale quite often.

The Miele laundry machine was 700€ back in the days and the fridge 1400€.

So, it is not that much more expensive here in Germany.

List prices are not real when it comes to the kitchen. They exist to be „limited time“-offered.

Cautionary tale from here in UK. We had a Neff (same company as Bosch and Siemens) dishwasher which we used heavily for 10 yrs then it started to leak because they'd used plastic in the base which got warped with heat. So, ditched a perfectly running machine due to a design flaw. Replaced it with a Miele in the hope that'd be better. So got a nice-and-simple base model, about £750 I think (as opposed to £400ish you can pay for another Neff). Turns out its made in Czech, not Germany. Although apparently Germans are cynical about their own factories these days, and it may be same quality. So far, it has a design fault that the drain detector is over sensitive. If bits of food fall on the base it interpets that as its still got water in and perpetually keeps trying to drain unless you pour a jug of water in to disperse food bits. Also depending how you close the door sometimes it seems to not engage, have to open and re-shut to make it work. One of the solenoids somewhere sounds a little rattly / not totally healthy, but that may be nothing. Quality of cleaning, and ease of stacking, appears less good than the Neff was. Suffice to say, I reserve judgement on whether paying extra for a Miele is worth it. They claim they're good for 20 yrs but if you read the small print that's at only 5 runs a week or something , not every day. So it may not actually be much better than the Neff in the end. But the Neffs now look cheaper and tackier than the ones from 10 yrs ago. Not an easy decision. Our best appliance purchase ever was a "Tesco value" microwave, which is Chinese cr*p that's still running fine almost 20 yrs later. ;) Good luck with your purchase ;)

My fridge (AEG/Frigidaire) cost about $600. I miss a couple things about my older fridge, but the current one is significantly more efficient and still maintains (durable, easily repairable) mechanical controls. There's a zero percent chance I'd find $1,000 of value in a luxury refrigerator. And a nearly 100% chance that any out of warranty repairs will be more expensive with the Miele.

Sure, for a few thousand dollars more I could get a dual compressor Bosch. Or I could spend the money on pretty much anything else. Miele is sold as a luxury brand out here and while luxury white goods are nice they command a hefty premium.

I like my Miele old school stick vac, but it was made in China just like everything else these days… and I wince every time I have to buy bags and filters for it.