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Maybe you’re not trying

(usefulfictions.substack.com)
448 points eatitraw | 24 comments | | HN request time: 0.992s | source | bottom
1. lisper ◴[] No.45944544[source]
I think the "maybe you're not actually trying" framing is not very constructive. The author did try, making decisions and taking actions that seemed appropriate for her situation at the time. The problem was that because her attempts to solve the problem failed -- again and again and again -- she stopped trying. Which is a not-entirely-unreasonable thing to do.

I would frame it more like: just because you have tried and failed doesn't mean you can't succeed, even if you have failed again and again and again. Circumstances change. New solutions become available. New resources or new insights present themselves. Sometimes just doing nothing and letting time pass actually produces progress. But the only thing that guarantees failure is to give up altogether.

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2. ChrisMarshallNY ◴[] No.45944581[source]
That’s a great point, and was how I felt about it, after reading the article.

She did ask for help (more accurately, she accepted help from a trusted source). That was what made the difference. Someone came in with a new approach vector.

She sounds like a fairly remarkable person, so failure isn’t necessarily an indication of incompetence. Rather, it can be an issue of approach. We can get fixated on a particular workflow.

Humans are a social animal. We’re not built to “go it alone,” and that’s really our “secret sauce.” The whole can be greater than the sum of the parts.

3. gyomu ◴[] No.45944586[source]
Also see

“It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not weakness, that is life.” Jean-Luc Picard

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4. 8bitbeep ◴[] No.45944637[source]
Also, not everything is a competition that needs to be won.
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5. mannykannot ◴[] No.45944836[source]
It seems that the author balked at a rather specific level of action: getting government agencies involved. I feel there might be more the author could say about this aspect of the event, though she is not, of course, under any obligation to do so.
6. billy99k ◴[] No.45944972{3}[source]
If you want to stay the same and not become better at something, you are correct.

Competition is many times about challening yourself, failing, learning from that failure, and eventually succeeding.

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7. collinmcnulty ◴[] No.45944986[source]
I found this helpful in the context of the author’s other work. “Maybe you can try a different way” feels less useful than “if you really, really wanted to do this, what would you do that you’re not doing right now”? Even though they’re effectively the same thing, I can usually think of an answer to the second question quickly. It reminds me of Mr Krabs having to let go of the dime.
8. jrjeksjd8d ◴[] No.45945004[source]
My therapist calls this "touching the hot stove". When you put a lot of effort into a problem and fail over and over, your mind "gives up" as a protective measure. You can drive yourself crazy trying to push forward and find a solution in a straight line.

It is sometimes useful to get outside input or take a break and wait for new circumstances.

Not going to lie, it is also very possible a husband going to law enforcement gets taken more seriously than a woman reporting stalking.

9. ChrisMarshallNY ◴[] No.45945014{3}[source]
I am not competitive. That's a deliberate stance, and one that I've held for decades.

It does contribute to the fact that I haven't achieved greatness, but I have no regrets, and haven't done badly, despite that. It's not weakness, as some folks have found out, over the years.

When I "win," then someone else "loses." I have a problem with that.

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10. fao_ ◴[] No.45945110{4}[source]
You do not have to compete with yourself, or anyone, to get better.

Getting better comes from collaborating:

- Being attentive to your practice (i.e. recording, going over your work, etc.)

- Asking, and taking the advice of other people in your field (i.e. find places where there are people older than you who have done the same tasks, and consult with them)

- Being exposed to diversity of thought (i.e. teams more diverse in culture, race, and gender, consistently come up with a better array of solutions — this directly benefits you, helps you think along alternative dimensions and perspectives, exposes errors you may have encoded)

- With art, taking on voluntary restrictions to inspire you — art prompts, game jams, etc.

Sure, some of these can be framed as competition — maybe you might frame being attentive to your practice as competing with your past self, and taking voluntary restrictions as competing with the others in the game jam or whatever — but I very, very much prefer to frame them as collaborating — in a solo practice session, you're collaborating with yourself to find the flaws and fix them, in a game jam session, you're collaborating with those around you to produce lots of interesting and good art.

In many cases, you literally cannot improve without depending on the advice of those around you — another perspective, a second pair of eyes, the well-worn advice of the 40yro burned out techies. Framing those as competition will actively just burn you out, in the end (or otherwise people will pick up on it and be less likely to help you, lol).

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11. whism ◴[] No.45945263{4}[source]
If you allow yourself to redefine “achieving greatness” you may be surprised by what is on the other side :)
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12. ChrisMarshallNY ◴[] No.45945272{5}[source]
Great point.
13. brabel ◴[] No.45945422[source]
The other side of that is that sometimes you just can't win, no matter what. You may end up wasting your life trying and trying anyway. Recognizing when to stop trying is just as important, I think.
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14. lisper ◴[] No.45945456[source]
That is an excellent point. Recognizing and accepting things you can't control is a critical life skill. But either way, "Maybe you're not trying" is not a helpful framing.
15. billy99k ◴[] No.45945474{5}[source]
"Being attentive to your practice (i.e. recording, going over your work, etc.)"

If you practice the same thing over and over, you won't get better. If you fail, figure out what you did wrong, and improve, that's competition.

"Asking, and taking the advice of other people in your field"

I will agree with you here.

"teams more diverse in culture, race, and gender,

'diversity of thought' has nothing to do with race, gender, or culture. I've found that many companies will use inferior ideas just to say that they are 'diverse'.

You also have to be careful, because when you take too many ideas from people that lack experience/expertise, you have to tune out the noise.

I do agree you need to get a wide array of ideas, though, regardless of race, culture, or gender.

"in a game jam session, you're collaborating with those around you to produce lots of interesting and good art."

This isn't competition, and there is a place for it..but this isn't really what we are discussing.

"another perspective, a second pair of eyes, the well-worn advice of the 40yro burned out techies"

Most learning like this happens if you get stuck on something and don't want to spend lots of time on it (although failing until you succeed will allow you to learn 5X more).

However, to take what you learned and actually improve, takes competition.

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16. lanyard-textile ◴[] No.45945565{4}[source]
You’ve achieved greatness in your view of the world, and in your empathy for others.
17. BeFlatXIII ◴[] No.45945652[source]
> You may end up wasting your life trying and trying anyway.

It's like the fly who keeps buzzing at the window pane instead of giving up to fall six inches to the open windowsill.

18. kayodelycaon ◴[] No.45945717[source]
My life got infinitely easier when I realized the normal way of doing things will never work for me. Even with medication, my brain is too broken to have discipline. I can’t form new habits by repeatedly doing something. Flat out doesn’t work.

What has worked for me is getting ahead of my brain and setting myself up for success before it gets there.

I’ve also completely given up on the idea of thinking before speaking. My solution for this is anticipating mistakes before I get into a conversation and not making the same mistake twice.

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19. lisper ◴[] No.45945812{3}[source]
> anticipating mistakes before I get into a conversation

How is that not thinking before speaking?

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20. fao_ ◴[] No.45945843{6}[source]
> If you fail, figure out what you did wrong, and improve, that's competition.

I very much disagree, it's a collaboration between yourself now, yourself in the past, and yourself in the future. You aren't competing with your older self, you can only improve by setting up recording and measurements, and doing analysis — all of that requires cooperation and is fundamentally collaborative.

> 'diversity of thought' has nothing to do with race, gender, or culture.

It absolutely does. Each of those represent social and psychological constraints on what solutions you are able to find and broach based on your identification of each. Each of those represent how you are treated differently within society, which limits or defines your experiences, which is a part of shaping how you think, which in turn limits the solutions visible to you. There's nothing wrong with this, and it's perfectly normal, but it is important to get a broader sampling across these points in order to arrive at the best decision. If your circle consists of entirely cis, white men, then you're making the same sampling bias that has led to thousands of small university studies being rejected.

A very real example of this is the way we look at deer. For decades, it was assumed by the men that studied in the field, that deer groups have a leader that decides where they go, because when the "leader" sets off to a new location, they all look towards the leader and follow them. It took a woman entering the field as a scientist and doing more observations to realise that actually that leader was more or less just a deer chosen to tally the vote — they all look in the direction they want to go, but one deer is nominated by the group to tally the votes and acts on the consensus of the group. The hundred-odd men, probably more, that had done studies of deer before that point had been so hierarchically minded that they hadn't considered an alternative explanation, which made them blind to the actual behaviour of the deer.

It's a quaint example, but there are millions of examples just like this one, where taking a statistical sampling of people within one race, gender, or culture ultimately skews the possible result space. And that's important for keeping an open mind and being able to explore the total result space.

> This isn't competition, and there is a place for it..

Many people treat game jams as competitions! Ludum Dare (the OG game jam) was explicitly called a "competition" and had winners, and runner ups, and such; however, by approaching a game jam in that way you lose a lot of what makes them fun and worthwhile experiences — namely, collaboration!

> Most learning like this happens if you get stuck on something and don't want to spend lots of time on it (although failing until you succeed will allow you to learn 5X more).

I disagree with both of these points. Back when I was employed in tech in my mid-20s, I would regularly run ideas I'd had past a group of 30 - 60yro people who were (racially-diverse, gender-diverse) tech leads, programmers, etc. It was a huge, huge boon to my abilities, and allowed me to hone a sense of what was worthwhile to pursue, what was a dead-end, etc. along with honing my skills for being able to look at things from a new angle. That, along with pouring over the c2wiki as a teenager (and thus reading the OG discussions about technologies that are commonplace today, from the people who were major players in the invention and adoption of those technologies) were amazing for expanding and refining my perspective and "approach to problems" toolbox. I cannot recommend this enough, and at no point did it involve competition :)

21. dahart ◴[] No.45946005{4}[source]
> When I “win”, the someone else “loses.”

Why do you say that? What kinds of “greatness” are you thinking about? Does that mean money, or fame? Why does someone have to lose?

I’m also a bit allergic to competition, but I want to respectfully disagree with this idea that greatness is somehow zero-sum. There’s an enormous number of ways you can “win” without someone else losing anything, so much so that non-competitive “wins” are a regular part of speech. WinArmy on YouTube comes to mind as a stupid example. :P “Win” in that case can mean skilled or lucky.

Making a lot of friends is a win, one where everyone wins. Being a great artist or philosopher or anthropologist is a form of greatness that helps everybody and hurts nobody. Discovering the cure for a disease is greatness.

Even making money, if that’s considered greatness, doesn’t necessarily come at the cost of someone else. If you’re the person in a company who helps make a better product, better marketing, more sales, or any decisions that result in more money in the door, you can make more money for yourself and make more money for everyone around you too. It doesn’t need to come at a loss for the customers either, your product can be positive value for them after paying for it, and in some cases can earn them money. Even the economy isn’t zero-sum.

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22. ChrisMarshallNY ◴[] No.45946085{5}[source]
Yeah, I agree.

I guess that I term it in the value system represented by a majority of folks, hereabouts.

In my own universe, I drew the golden ticket.

23. smrtinsert ◴[] No.45948774[source]
Agreed. Its a hair from victim blaming even though the victim is herself.
24. kayodelycaon ◴[] No.45950017{4}[source]
I’ve should’ve been a little more clear. This anticipation can be years before an actual conversation.

It’s mental training done days or weeks before an event, not hours.

During conversations my short-term memory is frequently overloaded to the point I miss words people are saying. There is no room to actively remember what not to say.