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AirPods libreated from Apple's ecosystem

(github.com)
1424 points moonleay | 13 comments | 16 Nov 25 00:01 UTC | HN request time: 0.032s | source | bottom
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moonleay ◴[16 Nov 25 00:02 UTC] No.45941605[source]▶
A cool project, when you want to use AirPods outside of Apples ecosystem. Sadly, you have to use a rooted android device with a small patch due to a bug in the Android Bluetooth implementation. https://issuetracker.google.com/issues/371713238
replies(6): >>45942063 #>>45942373 #>>45942451 #>>45943437 #>>45943943 #>>45944340 #
jmgao ◴[16 Nov 25 03:12 UTC] No.45942451[source]▶
It doesn't seem obvious to me that this is actually a bug in the Android implementation, it seems like this is due to AirPods violating the spec and requiring a special handshake before responding to standard requests. It doesn't seem reasonable to expect Android to work around a device that appears to be intentionally breaking the spec for vendor lock-in purposes: the possibility of them just OTAing an update that breaks in some other way means that you'd have to be entirely bug compatible with iOS's bluetooth implementation.
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helsinkiandrew ◴[16 Nov 25 05:08 UTC] No.45942932[source]▶
Apple have been ‘extending’ the Bluetooth stack for quite awhile. They introduced some BLE features before the spec was finished (I think some 3rd party hearing aids were also compatible).

I haven’t used non apple earphones for awhile but the seamless connectivity performance of AirPods would suggest this was done for performance, not to deliberately lock in devices.

This 2020 paper is great at breaking down some of the extensions: https://www.usenix.org/system/files/woot20-paper-heinze.pdf

replies(1): >>45942970 #
xethos ◴[16 Nov 25 05:18 UTC] No.45942970[source]▶
> They introduced some BLE features before the spec was finished

In their defence, they went with Lightning shortly before the USB-C spec was finalized. Then, to avoid their customers being screwed over by constantly changing the connector, they kind of had to stick with it for a decade.

People will complain if they push features that are ahead of the spec, and they'll complain if they let the spec be finalized before they use it. Being guided by "What's the best we can do for UX, assuming out users are our users in every product category we enter" seems to be their reasonable middle ground.

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1. binkHN ◴[16 Nov 25 06:03 UTC] No.45943116[source]▶
If Apple wasn't forced by the EU, they would try to preserve their walled garden as much as possible. iMessage is the prime example of this.
replies(1): >>45946285 #
2. raw_anon_1111 ◴[16 Nov 25 16:27 UTC] No.45946285[source]▶
Can another company federate with WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger?
replies(1): >>45946590 #
3. littlecranky67 ◴[16 Nov 25 17:07 UTC] No.45946590[source]▶
Yes, because the EU mandated them to. Just no one seems to want to federate.
replies(1): >>45946663 #
4. raw_anon_1111 ◴[16 Nov 25 17:16 UTC] No.45946663{3}[source]▶
And you are perfectly capable of interacting with iMessage users now through SMS/MMS/RCS
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5. monocasa ◴[16 Nov 25 18:32 UTC] No.45947265{4}[source]▶
Their RCS implementation is so incredibly broken, and I can tell as an Android user.

It seems like every other message gets downgraded to SMS.

replies(1): >>45950509 #
6. array_key_first ◴[16 Nov 25 22:14 UTC] No.45948932{4}[source]▶
Yes, except that SMS/MMS sucks major ass, and RCS is really, really bad too. Not as awful as SMS, but close, and missing various barebones features.

That's not Apple's fault per se, but of course, they contribute to it. They should open up the iMessage protocol.

replies(1): >>45949215 #
7. raw_anon_1111 ◴[16 Nov 25 22:55 UTC] No.45949215{5}[source]▶
So what you are saying is that for Apple to create a better experience, they have to add to the industry standard - the same as AirPods.
replies(1): >>45949266 #
8. array_key_first ◴[16 Nov 25 23:05 UTC] No.45949266{6}[source]▶
Yes, that would be mutually beneficial both for Apple customers and people who are not Apple customers.
replies(1): >>45949978 #
9. raw_anon_1111 ◴[17 Nov 25 01:01 UTC] No.45949978{7}[source]▶
Why is that on Apple instead of the hundreds of other manufacturers and Google? If Google wants a better ecosystem, it’s on them since according to them Android was suppose to be the “definition of open”.
replies(1): >>45950523 #
10. xethos ◴[17 Nov 25 03:00 UTC] No.45950509{5}[source]▶
That's because SMS is a horribly broken, hacky standard, and RCS has to inherit and deal with all the horrifying edge-cases of SMS, MMS, and legacy cruft going back prior to the turn of the millenium.

Then it has to accomodate every other intersted party, many of which hate each other. Apple has always been a bit of an odd duck ("Think Different" has been internalized for some time), but Verizon actively hates OTT messaging as they can't charge for it. Samsung would rather run their own RCS implementation to create and advertise "Samsung RCS", and Google can't push too hard without getting EU attention for antitrust (again).

RCS has been stuck in limbo-hell for years for multiple reasons, none of which are easy.

replies(1): >>45956467 #
11. xethos ◴[17 Nov 25 03:03 UTC] No.45950523{8}[source]▶
Because while Android is "open", Google has no carrot (Verizon can't charge for OTT messaging and has no major incentive to push it), and no stick (pushing too hard will draw regulators' attention again)

RCS has been stuck in limbo-hell for several years, and I expect it to stay that way (to your point, I expect it to stay that way even if Apple chips in)

replies(1): >>45951060 #
12. raw_anon_1111 ◴[17 Nov 25 05:31 UTC] No.45951060{9}[source]▶
Google has a big stick - Google Play Services. They use it all of the time to get manufacturers to do what they want.
13. monocasa ◴[17 Nov 25 18:34 UTC] No.45956467{6}[source]▶
The specific issue I'm talking about is how Apple for some reason ties the presence of RCS persistently to a contact that requires the user to manually go in and adjust, otherwise the conversation switches back and forth between SMS and RCS as each participant texts back and forth.

This is a problem no other vendors have, and is solely caused by Apple.

https://www.androidauthority.com/android-iphone-rcs-messagin...