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113 points 1vuio0pswjnm7 | 95 comments | | HN request time: 1.022s | source | bottom
1. asim ◴[] No.45788244[source]
Tens of billions spent on AI data centers. But people still starve across the planet. Amazing.
replies(14): >>45788266 #>>45788321 #>>45788351 #>>45788376 #>>45788378 #>>45788389 #>>45788428 #>>45788457 #>>45788889 #>>45795181 #>>45795426 #>>45795997 #>>45796537 #>>45796623 #
2. kcaseg ◴[] No.45788266[source]
Last time I commented something very similar thinking it was the least controversial no brainer thing and multiple people reacted as if it was some Leninist ragebait lol
replies(1): >>45788293 #
3. t0lo ◴[] No.45788293[source]
Conditioning- America is a capitalist social experiment and I mean that literally
replies(3): >>45788381 #>>45792126 #>>45794961 #
4. ivape ◴[] No.45788321[source]
Technological innovation veils our failed morality. I don’t ever see this resolving without God literally showing up to Earth.
5. CamperBob2 ◴[] No.45788351[source]
And there you are with your fancy computer! Sell it and feed the poor.
replies(2): >>45788382 #>>45788716 #
6. anon291 ◴[] No.45788376[source]
People in other countries starve because the people in charge of them are evil not because the people with resources lack benevolence. If you've ever tried to do charity in a foreign country with a foreign culture and language you would be aware of the issues. No amount of outside money in the world could fix these problems. In fact they will make it worse. People need to grow up.

In the United States, starvation doesn't exist so we've expanded the definition to include more people because we really care to feed people. If you've been to countries where actual starvation is a possibility, you'd understand. So tired of this self hating unaware self flagellation.

replies(1): >>45788392 #
7. chii ◴[] No.45788378[source]
i think a good counter to this sort of argument is :

https://launiusr.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/why-explore-space-...

replies(1): >>45790054 #
8. edm0nd ◴[] No.45788381{3}[source]
Seems pretty successful then no for being such a young country. America is literally where all the major tech and internet companies are.
replies(5): >>45788440 #>>45788475 #>>45788652 #>>45793174 #>>45796169 #
9. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.45788382[source]
Their fancy computer's value is a mote compared to the billions of dollars being poured into AI software and infrastructure. It's a dead horse that shouldn't be beaten anymore. Individual choices are so insignificant as to be effectively meaningless in contexts like this.
replies(1): >>45792235 #
10. wewewedxfgdf ◴[] No.45788389[source]
No doubt you have a nice bike or computer or you spend money on something often like movies or board games or something.

Do you argue that money should all go to feeding the hungry?

replies(4): >>45788429 #>>45788435 #>>45788702 #>>45795536 #
11. bombcar ◴[] No.45788392[source]
This is seen in that starvation is effectively solved in the USa (and now runs the other direction; the poor in the US often tend toward obesity instead of starvation).

The “solution” to countries with starvation today is likely massive full-scale invasion and domination; something the modern world doesn’t have an appetite for.

replies(3): >>45788418 #>>45788488 #>>45796214 #
12. anon291 ◴[] No.45788418{3}[source]
Yeah America has no ability to colonize other countries. We are not unified enough as a culture to do that. Look at the debacle of Afghanistan.

Like right now there is starvation in Nigeria because Islamofascists from the north are hunting Christians in the south. Exactly how will any amount of American money convince religious zealots to stop being zealots? If anything, a large influx of money from infidels will just make the clerics claim that their victims are foreign operatives. There is nothing we can do other than pray or stage a full scale military invasion. At that point we can either choose to fully administer the place (unsustainable) or we would have to destroy the apparatus that made the situation possible, which is going to look a helluva lot like a genocide. An impossible situation and only one of many across the globe.

replies(1): >>45796248 #
13. krona ◴[] No.45788428[source]
Capital misallocation do be like that, but I don't think that capital would be feeding children in the Congo if it wasn't for Facebook's latest folly.
replies(2): >>45788474 #>>45788487 #
14. consp ◴[] No.45788429[source]
Poor argumentation. If I spend 25 billion on movies and still have enough money to never care you should ask me again.
15. molteanu ◴[] No.45788440{4}[source]
Where I'm pretty sure that the definition of "successful" that you have in mind is one given by America itself.
replies(1): >>45789341 #
16. loeg ◴[] No.45788457[source]
Michigan has plenty of water. But California still has droughts sometimes. Amazing (if you're 14).
17. loeg ◴[] No.45788474[source]
The issue is mostly the corrupt elites that control these impoverished counties, not foreign aid or lack thereof.
replies(5): >>45788535 #>>45789584 #>>45790062 #>>45790294 #>>45799265 #
18. gherkinnn ◴[] No.45788475{4}[source]
"Hub for all the major tech companies" isn't the only metric that matters, not in the face of its current administration. It so is not.
19. gherkinnn ◴[] No.45788488{3}[source]
Sure. As if the massive full-scale invasion and domination of Iraq and Afghanistan worked so well. And throwing in more firepower and loosening the rules of engagement won't fix it either.

It boggles the mind how anybody over the age of 20 can think this way.

replies(1): >>45788571 #
20. ◴[] No.45788535{3}[source]
21. phil21 ◴[] No.45788571{4}[source]
The primary reason the invasion of Afghanistan failed was because the US tried to pretend it wasn’t an invasion or domination. Telling the local warlords and factions beforehand they just had to outlast things was a plan doomed to failure before it even began.

If the government had sold “we are making this place the 51st state and it will take 100 years to make that happen” there would be an entirely different outcome.

I’m not saying that’s what should have happened. I actually feel nothing should have happened. But if you are going to take extensive lethal action like that, at least man up and be honest over what it will take to be successful.

The US populace is bizarrely afraid of admitting they live the amazing lives they do due to empire. It’s politically untenable to actually state the reality of what it takes to subjugate a population, no matter if the death numbers are similar for abject pointless failure versus eventual success.

replies(2): >>45788839 #>>45791198 #
22. GolfPopper ◴[] No.45788652{4}[source]
Like TSMC and ASML?
replies(1): >>45794130 #
23. asim ◴[] No.45788702[source]
I donate part of my wealth to the poor every year and whatever more I feel is adequate based on a code of law e.g religion. I am just an individual. If I was a multi billion dollar conglomerate that incentive would be much higher. To bring the world out of poverty is to enrich all of humanity and my work would benefit from that as more people would benefit from the technology I built. But if the incentive is to spend everything and borrow more to build data centers to fuel addictive services and exploit people then this is quite a disservice to mankind.
replies(1): >>45788913 #
24. asim ◴[] No.45788716[source]
What if what I donate every year is 100x the value of a laptop I've owned for 5 years? Your logic is illogical.
replies(1): >>45792112 #
25. dns_snek ◴[] No.45788745{3}[source]
Christian capitalist is an oxymoron.
26. bombcar ◴[] No.45788839{5}[source]
Exactly. There's no country on the Earth today with the empire dreams and ability of the British colonial period. And nobody is willing to bring it back (and perhaps for very good reasons, mind you).

What we did in Iraq and Afghanistan is an embarrassment and black stain; had we been openly evil and empirical (?) we'd have killed less with a better result.

replies(2): >>45791138 #>>45796224 #
27. SR2Z ◴[] No.45788849{3}[source]
Unless you're gonna no-true-Scotsman this, plenty of wealthy Christians are deeply unpleasant and selfish people. Going to church does not make people good.
replies(1): >>45796631 #
28. esseph ◴[] No.45788871{3}[source]
You cannot be both a good Christian and a good Capitalist. It is an "or", not an "and".
29. ponector ◴[] No.45788889[source]
Gambling market in US has $100bn+ revenue. Tobacco sales in US is $70bn+

People starve and (almost) no one cares.

replies(1): >>45788932 #
30. ponector ◴[] No.45788913{3}[source]
Humanity is enormously rich. Compare to the state of humanity 200y ago. Pretty much everyone was struggling to survive, to get food and some heat.

Nowadays even the poorest countries are not starving, unless there is a war going on.

replies(2): >>45789505 #>>45798719 #
31. asim ◴[] No.45788932[source]
Yes also huge problems and many other industries to speak of. Unfortunately as technology dominates and the most valuable company in the world is producing GPUs we know where it's all headed. I think while gambling and narcotics are very addictive and terrible we have overlooked technology and it's crept up on us in a bad way. Screens are horribly addictive. Maybe even worse than those things mentioned because you can be indoctrinated from birth. Because the cost is almost zero and continuous and the advancements are only trying to drive further addiction e.g Meta's heavy investment in AR and VR. AR/VR plus AI is basically the recipe for virtual worlds which people will prefer over real life. So we'll become even more disillusioned to the worlds problems because we'll prefer to escape to some virtual reality where all our desires are serviced.
32. t0lo ◴[] No.45789341{5}[source]
Yep- this is my point- it's becoming far more obvious how the game is being run now everything is going to shit and they're pulling the plug.
33. baubino ◴[] No.45789505{4}[source]
You’re demonstrating the problem of averages. While what you are saying might be true on average, it doesn’t negate the point being made, which is that millions of people continue to struggle to survive and live without adequate food, heat, water, healthcare, etc.

Also, there are multiple wars going on across the world that are making the problem even worse.

replies(1): >>45789712 #
34. spwa4 ◴[] No.45789584{3}[source]
The real issue is far more controversial than that. The issue is not even necessarily the corrupt elites but the culture. And specifically that any new elites that might displace the existing one would just do the same.

Think of Afghanistan as an example, where the US really did create a modern tolerant state ... for a while. Locals didn't want to keep it going, or at least, not enough. Because the idea that there aren't very wealthy Afghans is just wrong. There's entire neighborhoods in Kabul full of luxury villas with people going into fancy restaurants constantly. That's effectively what the Taliban are fighting for.

replies(3): >>45790212 #>>45797093 #>>45797263 #
35. eastbound ◴[] No.45789712{5}[source]
No, really, there are fewer famines. The UN, who defined poverty in terms of basic necessities, had to review their definition because how do you make UN survive if there weren’t enough poor populations in scope.
replies(1): >>45790361 #
36. frm88 ◴[] No.45790054[source]
Wow! This has aged really, really badly. 50 years and many billions of dollars later and we're neither on the Moon or Mars or have significantly enhanced the distribution of food to those in need, let alone international cooperation.

Higher food production through survey and assessment from orbit, and better food distribution through improved international relations, are only two examples of how profoundly the space program will impact life on Earth.

As good counters go, this underperforms.

replies(2): >>45790366 #>>45801051 #
37. Eddy_Viscosity2 ◴[] No.45790062{3}[source]
I wonder if there is any difference between the corrupt elites that control impoverished countries and the corrupt elites that control the biggest corporations. If the CEOs had full control over government (which seems to be their aim, and they are succeeding), what would they do with that power I wonder?
replies(2): >>45792419 #>>45794097 #
38. tim333 ◴[] No.45790212{4}[source]
Maintaining a modern tolerant state is probably harder than it looks. Like in the UK we take it for granted but it's the end result of centuries of sometimes bloody trial and error fixes. People think it's silly we still have a king but look what happened to Russia, France, Germany etc after they got rid of theirs.

Afghanistan might have worked out if the US took a king like role sitting in a fort somewhere and saying ok, you're prime minister to some Afgan after each election. The king role may seem like nothing but if a UK prime minister says sod this I'm ruler for life then the king doesn't endorse them and the king is the head of the armed forces which makes it difficult to do such stuff.

replies(2): >>45791084 #>>45793458 #
39. tim333 ◴[] No.45790294{3}[source]
There may hope for some AI assisted governance software to improve things? Kind of like how Uber type apps have made if harder for cabbies to rip you off.
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40. Tarsul ◴[] No.45790361{6}[source]
yeah but what's it worth if our riches in 2025 are lent from the future with no way to pay back? That's climate change.
replies(1): >>45792967 #
41. tim333 ◴[] No.45790366{3}[source]
I agree the space program was a bit of a flop but food distribution and poverty stuff has improved

Extreme poverty from 45% to less than 10% https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty-in-brief

Famine deaths about 1/3 https://ourworldindata.org/famines

42. foogazi ◴[] No.45791084{5}[source]
> and the king is the head of the armed forces which makes it difficult to do such stuff.

How did that work out for Russia, France or Germany ?

replies(1): >>45792150 #
43. anon291 ◴[] No.45791138{6}[source]
Imperial is the word you are looking for.
44. foogazi ◴[] No.45791198{5}[source]
> If the government had sold “we are making this place the 51st state and it will take 100 years to make that happen” there would be an entirely different outcome.

Such hubris - nobody would have signed up for that

replies(1): >>45793861 #
45. bathtub365 ◴[] No.45791863{4}[source]
Which corrupt leaders are going to give over their control to a machine?
replies(1): >>45792162 #
46. CamperBob2 ◴[] No.45792112{3}[source]
Well, you know, we're all doing what we can.
47. CamperBob2 ◴[] No.45792126{3}[source]
One great thing about America is that we won't shoot you at the border for trying to leave.
48. tim333 ◴[] No.45792150{6}[source]
Stalin, Napoleon and Hitler but they got over it eventually apart from Russia.
49. tim333 ◴[] No.45792162{5}[source]
You'd have to get rid of them first, but it might help the new lot stay straight?
50. CamperBob2 ◴[] No.45792235{3}[source]
Their fancy computer is the tip of a trillion-dollar spear, forged by our precursors who were trying to invent new and innovative ways to blow up half the world while keeping that half from blowing our half up.

There are no clean hands here. Any attempt to claim the moral high ground by dictating how other people should spend their money (or their machine cycles) will meet with the usual degree of success.

51. loeg ◴[] No.45792419{4}[source]
"Corrupt" doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.
52. eastbound ◴[] No.45792967{7}[source]
Shifting the goal. The goal was commiseration for poverty, and you want a stable future.

It’s difficult to reconcile the desires of 8bn people. Some don’t care about climate change, some would like to see their granddaughter, some will live through flooding or an earthquake, some would like better health. Most of misery in the world does not come from the lack of money. If anything, disagreements between people are the cause of the lack of money, not the result.

53. no_wizard ◴[] No.45793174{4}[source]
A young country that inherited old values, cultural norms, traditions and ethos.

It’s not like the US rose in a vacuum. It sees impressive on its face and to some extent I believe it is, but it has more to do with being a resource rich nation (lots of plentiful raw material within our borders) and the fact the last time we had a foreign invasion was during the war of 1812.

We aren’t some near unbelievable anomaly of history, we built on our British roots

54. spwa4 ◴[] No.45793458{5}[source]
Maybe, in Afghanistan Soviet communists invaded and destroyed Afghanistan's state structures and started a massacre that would last years. That's why the Taliban attacked ... and probably why they won, with overwhelming support by the population of Afghanistan, and even US support.

But the details of the story expose a great many painpoints for many ideologies and parties so people don't like to talk about it. First it exposes that the US (and Europe, and many others, but of course not the UN or Russia) supported the Taliban ... because they were better than communists. My favorite stats is that the Taliban, as bad as they are, in 2.5 wars and ... still haven't killed as many people as the communists massacres killed in Afghanistan.

So "capitalist" or more accurately US and UK support for the Taliban did indeed exist (was a lot less than reported though), but yes, that included supporting and training a certain Osama Bin Laden ... Of course what's never mentioned when this is brought up is why people supported the Taliban. It wasn't to destroy socialism ... or at least that wasn't the only reason.

On the other side of the aisle it exposes that there was a time that socialism tried to eradicate religions ... using genocide (not just in Afghanistan). WITH the support of socialists in the west, the same socialist parties that still exist, were violently against immigration and protested against western states saving even one of those muslim men, women and children.

Both ideologies, left, center and right, want to believe they're constant, rational, and right. So an extremely large change in policy ... especially leftist parties who supported Soviet/communist genocides against a decent chunk of their current electorate.

Including famous current politicians like Antonio Guterrez, secretary general of the United Nations, who organised and personally physically attacked and hurt people for trying to give muslims sanctuary 40 years ago (he probably didn't even hate muslims, he just supported communism, including Soviet and Chinese genocides)

So everybody denies it but that's how Afghanistan got where it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Afghanistan

replies(2): >>45797769 #>>45798689 #
55. anon291 ◴[] No.45793861{6}[source]
Exactly the point he was making. Americans have no will to colonize or empire build
56. drivingmenuts ◴[] No.45794097{4}[source]
Well, we in the US saw what happened when Elon Musk was handed a ridiculous amount of control and it wasn't good.
57. yugioh3 ◴[] No.45794130{5}[source]
Both of those were funded by and built off of American technology and investment. TSMC as an outsourcing of American made chips and ASML as a direct result of DoD research.
replies(1): >>45797275 #
58. senordevnyc ◴[] No.45794961{3}[source]
It's also one of the countries with the highest percentage of people who give to charity and volunteer, fwiw.
replies(1): >>45797253 #
59. loeg ◴[] No.45795022{4}[source]
Only if you think AI will be god.
60. fvgvkujdfbllo ◴[] No.45795181[source]
There is no shortage of food anymore. Unless genocide, no one is starving.
61. kylehotchkiss ◴[] No.45795294{4}[source]
Zero. Why do you think AI will overcome human nature in impoverished nations? Smartphone and cheap internet already happened in many, it hasn’t made a huge dent in outcomes.
62. kylehotchkiss ◴[] No.45795304{3}[source]
The “richest country in the world” is already supposedly “Christian”. Interestingly enough, Christian nonprofits in international aid space are reporting historically low contributions (heard on a recent Russell Moore show). It turns out when secular leadership wants to become insular, many of the religious follow suit.
63. ehnto ◴[] No.45795426[source]
In their own country, even.

Even just to save face, I would have expected one of the billionaires to have started a foundation tackling the problem in some way.

64. windexh8er ◴[] No.45795536[source]
Quite the stretch when you compare a bike to trillions wasted on products that 1) don't generally benefit humanity 2) could actually be used for real research instead of preserving an ad racket.

But, yeah. Keep comparing the egregious billionaires looking to lock out competition and hold on to their billions with all their might! Clearly it has to be the bike or board games the normies own, though. FFS.

replies(1): >>45797203 #
65. nozzlegear ◴[] No.45795690{4}[source]
My favorite (fiction) book on this topic is Ray Nayler's Where The Axe Is Buried. The premise is that most western democracies have voted to "rationalize", which means installing an AI Prime Minister tuned specifically for their country's culture and economic interests.
66. dolphinscorpion ◴[] No.45795997[source]
And many spent hundreds of dollars on a dinner when they could feed x poor people. Slipery slope
replies(1): >>45796028 #
67. all_factz ◴[] No.45796028[source]
We need dinners, we don’t need AI
68. mmooss ◴[] No.45796169{4}[source]
That is partly attributed to being by far the largest single market for much of the 20th century - European countries have at most ~30% of the population - and being the only major economy not destroyed by the end of WWII, which resulted in the US producing half of world GDP at the time.

US businesses have had a much larger market to sell to, and that attracts investment and talent.

69. mmooss ◴[] No.45796214{3}[source]
Can you give an example of that working? The fact is that the 'modern world' - at least before recent phenomena - created by far the greatest expansion of freedom and prosperity, and greatest reduction in poverty, in human history. Way, way beyond anything else, including colonial eras.

Also, when ideas like yours are tried, it turns out that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, and powers - including the US - serve their own interests. How could you imagine otherwise at this point?

And without democracy, they can't help it - self-determination provides better outcomes because the people who are subject to the 'help' have a seat at the table and they have power. The issues that others dismiss or make secondary (or tertiary) are the ones the self-determined people can insist on in a democracy.

> modern world doesn’t have an appetite for

It's not a lack of appetite, it's counter to our goals of freedom and self-determination, and all experience of prosperity.

70. mmooss ◴[] No.45796224{6}[source]
> There's no country on the Earth today with the empire dreams and ability of the British colonial period.

The colonial Brits weren't trying to feed the world, but aggregate power and wealth. Their former colonies didn't do too well, except wealthy ones like the US, Canada, etc.

After the colonial period ended, many of those countries have utterly transformed economically. Look at Brazil, China, India, South Korea, Taiwan, .... all prospered after embracing democracy (or at least moving in that direction, in China's case).

71. mmooss ◴[] No.45796248{4}[source]
> there is starvation in Nigeria because Islamofascists from the north are hunting Christians in the south

Can you provide some evidence that that's a cause of hunger problems in Nigeria? It's such a politicized claim onw, it's

> There is nothing we can do other than pray or stage a full scale military invasion.

Warfare doesn't solve any problems, as anyone who knows its history or experiences it will express. It's the worst problem for humanity.

Are you really claiming that problems aren't otherwise solved? It's absurd. Your plan is almost never done and the correlation, between peace (and the outlawing of war) the growth of freedom and prosperity - including in West Africa - is the opposite.

72. lenkite ◴[] No.45796537[source]
Birth rates are >4 in most of those starving regions. Family planning needed first.
replies(1): >>45799043 #
73. pfannkuchen ◴[] No.45796623[source]
Population numbers in all areas where this is widespread exploded after the introduction of efficient agriculture from outside. Like if lack of food was the root problem, we would expect population in these places to be decreasing, not increasing, right? Something other than food scarcity is at play here.
replies(1): >>45797033 #
74. pfannkuchen ◴[] No.45796631{4}[source]
They aren’t good Christians then, and if Christian social shame was still the dominant flavor of social shame we may not see such egregious behavior (not arguing there would be perfection, of course).
replies(2): >>45797016 #>>45798997 #
75. SR2Z ◴[] No.45797016{5}[source]
So, hypothetically, how many people do you think call themselves good Christians and then turn around a say that homosexuality sends people to hell? What does the Bible have to say about abortion, really?

You say Christian social shame, those are the very first things that come to mind.

replies(1): >>45801395 #
76. sigmoid10 ◴[] No.45797033[source]
That's a logical fallacy. Population growth can outgrow food supply thanks to high fertility and access to better hygiene and medical treatment from outside combined with a lack of birth control. So you would still see population growth, but a growing fraction of this population could be malnourished.

That being said, the most common reason is simply war. If you look at the famine in Sudan right now, it is a direct consequence of the civil war (which also happens to be the biggest and bloodiest war by far in the world right now). Lost crops from weather or diseases can also restrict local food production, but it only ever really turns into a problem when armed groups prevent outside food supplies from moving to affected areas like the military in Sudan does right now.

77. Frieren ◴[] No.45797093{4}[source]
> Think of Afghanistan as an example,

A country that has been destabilized by foreign invasions again and again. The last one from the USA.

It is not about culture, it is about been ruled by outside powers that do not allow for internal development. Except for a few tax havens, former colonized countries struggle with violence, inequality, and corruption. That was the system that was setup for them and it will take decades to fix if they are left alone, it will never be fixed if other countries intervene to keep the status quo to profit from it.

replies(1): >>45797822 #
78. leovingi ◴[] No.45797203{3}[source]
It's always so easy to argue about spending someone else's money, especially if you can present it as a moral crusade, isn't it?
79. piva00 ◴[] No.45797253{4}[source]
People in the USA have to volunteer to provide social services not provided by the government though, stuff like food banks which many other developed countries have services in place to take care of their citizens.

Charitable donations follow a similar pattern, the USA is a different system so not really comparable to some other developed countries which have public systems in place to cover these cases.

80. hulitu ◴[] No.45797263{4}[source]
> Think of Afghanistan as an example, where the US really did create a modern tolerant state

Citation needed.

81. piva00 ◴[] No.45797275{6}[source]
ASML is responsible for all the engineering side of the research from EUV LLC, painting it as "direct result from DoD research" as to minimise the achievement is way backhanded. Without ASML the whole EUV LLC research would be dead in the water, it's a symbiotic relationship, and the amount of engineering R&D that ASML had to do to actually deploy the technology shouldn't be understated like that.

I don't think ASML was "funded" by American technology, it's actually ASML who has to pay for licencing...

82. tim333 ◴[] No.45797769{6}[source]
History is messy I guess. I see the Brits did some Afgan invading in the nineteenth century.
83. spwa4 ◴[] No.45797822{5}[source]
Why blame outside powers again? There are very large differences where you have very limited differences in outside power rule, a big example being India vs Pakistan. And this is very far from the only example.

There have always been and always will be outside powers. Hell, the very first stories we have, from the Epic of Gilgamesj, the oldest stories in the Bible and Greek Legends are all about outside powers intervening, and here we are, over 4000 years later, and there's (checks wikipedia) 32 current wars (and none are "the west" doing that at the moment, China is currently the worst offender, there's of course Russia and Ukraine/Europe) where outside powers are trying to dominate someone else. At some point you have to accept outside powers trying to fuck things up as a basic part of life. So other countries will keep intervening, probably for another 4000+ years.

replies(1): >>45798584 #
84. cess11 ◴[] No.45798584{6}[source]
What do you mean by "war", exactly? The US bombing Somalia, Colombia and Venezuela clearly does not count, and neither does the SOF:s in Syria and Iraq, or the proxy wars in Ukraine, Yemen, Palestine and Lebanon. I suppose the trade wars don't count either.
85. cess11 ◴[] No.45798689{6}[source]
The Taliban was formed in 1994 and had very little to do with the Soviets. They became popular on a kind of 'tough on crime, say no to drugs' platform, because the US had invested heavily in local war lord drug barons and made a lot of money from drowning the world in the cheap heroin they provided.

If you squint a bit there's a suspicious cadence in the Taliban taking over and eradicating most of the heroin production and the US invading soon after and restarting it.

The Taliban also did messaging along the lines that it's not a good idea to use foreign investment for mining infrastructure and the like when kids are starving to death.

86. cess11 ◴[] No.45798719{4}[source]
Even in the supposedly richest countries a lot of people are starving, homeless or otherwise immiserated.
87. wussboy ◴[] No.45798997{5}[source]
No True Scotsman it is.
replies(1): >>45799735 #
88. wussboy ◴[] No.45799043[source]
That is the cart before the horse. Families, and women specifically, need stability and reasonable guarantees that fewer babies will be more likely to survive before they will stop having 4.
replies(1): >>45800786 #
89. _menelaus ◴[] No.45799265{3}[source]
Are we feeding any impoverished Congo families? The problem isn't just 'the elites', its us.
replies(1): >>45801486 #
90. pfannkuchen ◴[] No.45799735{6}[source]
Well I’m an atheist, but it’s undeniable that Christianity used to be the dominant moral police in the west and it no longer is. If you stop enforcing morality with shame then people don’t follow it as much. Which part of that is wrong?
91. lenkite ◴[] No.45800786{3}[source]
No, it is definitely the cart after the horse - kindly check basic facts. The babies are surviving thanks to declining child mortality - population of regions such as Sub-Saharan Africa has grown from 434 million to ~1.3 billion in the last few decades.

Basically your assertion that "reasonable guarantees that fewer babies will be more likely to survive" is completely and utterly wrong. Desperate family planning is needed, but religion stands in the way. No amount of international aid will fix this fundamental problem.

replies(1): >>45801388 #
92. JuniperMesos ◴[] No.45801051{3}[source]
It didn't age badly at all. This prediction was dead-on accurate. The widespread use of satellite monitoring of the Earth's surface has paid huge dividends for humanity in all sorts of ways including better and cheaper food production. Also the GPS system alone has been hugely important for every human system that involves navigating from one place on the Earth to another, which of course includes food transport as well as many many other things relevant to people's lives and health.
93. solumunus ◴[] No.45801388{4}[source]
Climate change will sort that out.
94. pfannkuchen ◴[] No.45801395{6}[source]
Well, morality isn’t universal. It’s basically a distributed operating system for large human groups. Different operating systems exist.

The modern western morality is different from Christianity in a lot of ways. So, yes, a person executing classical Christian morality would shame for those things and consider them wrong. I’m an atheist so I don’t have to agree with them, and I didn’t make their rules, that’s just what they are.

I’m also not claiming that Christianity enforcing a morality would make better “people”. It would just make better (i.e. more consistent and less hypocritical) “Christians”.

95. loeg ◴[] No.45801486{4}[source]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Agency_for_Inter...

$940 million to the Congo.