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    269 points youz | 24 comments | | HN request time: 0.92s | source | bottom
    1. LambdaComplex ◴[] No.45688223[source]
    YouTube shorts baffle me, in a way. "We've spent 20 years developing the perfect user interface for watching videos...now let's throw it all away and remove almost every feature so that it's more like TikTok."
    replies(6): >>45688313 #>>45688319 #>>45688411 #>>45691309 #>>45691442 #>>45692077 #
    2. wvenable ◴[] No.45688313[source]
    Youtube Shorts are apparently very popular; so even if they aren't our cup of tea, you can't argue with success.
    replies(10): >>45688458 #>>45688463 #>>45688498 #>>45688538 #>>45688733 #>>45688748 #>>45691165 #>>45691315 #>>45691763 #>>45696536 #
    3. bdangubic ◴[] No.45688319[source]
    you just described almost ever product ever :) I used Jira when it was first released and it was ridiculously amazing. facebook was fire too… but quarterly earnings are you know, once per quarter… :)
    4. raincole ◴[] No.45688411[source]
    Try this: "we've spent 20 years developing the perfect user interface for watching videos, and our users are abandoning it for TikTok. What to do, Product Manager?"
    replies(3): >>45688483 #>>45692684 #>>45694541 #
    5. gtowey ◴[] No.45688458[source]
    Gambling is also extremely successful but you could argue it's a net loss for society to have it.

    The argument that money == correctness is basically what we've been trained to believe by armies of MBAs, but it's not right. It's sad that the state of philosophical and moral discussions in our society has basically been usurped by a kind of thoughtless reductionism.

    6. moritonal ◴[] No.45688463[source]
    They're addictive, they're "popular" in the way slot machines are popular and require controls around. It's just so easy to watch another, which miiiight be amazing!
    7. AuthAuth ◴[] No.45688483[source]
    I dont think Youtube is losing users to Tiktok. I thnk Tiktok is growing with new potential youtuber users and youtube cant accept that and must throw everything away to capture them.
    8. OneDeuxTriSeiGo ◴[] No.45688498[source]
    It's successful in a really unhealthy kind of way though. I'm in my late 20s and in at least one group chat I'm in I've got 4+ friends who together we try to avoid shorts because they are such a time sink.

    You don't enjoy your time on it but it's engaging and it's hard to get out of once you get sucked in. My friends literally keep track of how long they've been away from shorts and regularly "relapse" into sinking hours into shorts "against their wills" even when they uninstall the app but eventually end up on the mobile website stuck in shorts.

    It's very much intentionally addicting and takes advantage of basically every dark pattern they can to maximize your time spent in the app.

    replies(1): >>45693776 #
    9. Timwi ◴[] No.45688538[source]
    I can absolutely argue about what measure of success to apply. If you're only focused on what makes you money, then you're successful according to this one metric, but you're a psychopath and you're hurting your users. And it's millions of users because you're maximizing for that.

    If you instead make a great product that is liked by a select audience, and that doesn't cause them brainrot, then you have succeeded on a different metric.

    Which metric is more conducive to a successful society?

    10. JoshGG ◴[] No.45688733[source]
    There was a period of time when Crack was also very popular.
    11. al_borland ◴[] No.45688748[source]
    Some of it is artificial. If I’m watching a Short on my TV and I miss a word, I can’t go back to hear the word again. I have to finish watching it and watch the whole thing again. People making the shorts do this on purpose so people re-watch.

    90% of the Shorts in my feed aren’t original content, it’s some random nobody stealing someone else’s content and clipping it up for easy money, usually overlaying some random other content so avoid a copyright strike. They are the drop shippers of the YouTube world. They add very little value, and just milk it for profit while they can.

    Some slight improvements to the main video experience would make most shorts irrelevant. Let me share a clip from a longer video with a start and end time. Then have a way to seep popular clipped content. This would keep the views with the original creator, give the viewer an easy way to keep watching to get the full context, eliminate all these bottom feeder accounts, and unify the experience so YouTube doesn’t feel like two different sites mashed together. This seems like it would be better in every way.

    12. nicman23 ◴[] No.45691165[source]
    i specifically block them because they were too addicting
    13. eviks ◴[] No.45691309[source]
    In what mythical world is YouTube bad interface perfect?
    replies(1): >>45694579 #
    14. eviks ◴[] No.45691315[source]
    You can argue with success because part of that success is bad interface design forcing shorts
    15. 334f905d22bc19 ◴[] No.45691442[source]
    Well, at least they made it incredibly annoying with the auto translated AI voice. At first I didn't even find the setting on youtube shorts to switch to the actual audio track.

    They should keep going though. Maybe someday I will be so annoyed that I finally stop using this website

    replies(1): >>45694822 #
    16. wiseowise ◴[] No.45691763[source]
    So is gambling and crack cocaine.
    17. Nextgrid ◴[] No.45692077[source]
    This could be applied to most of technology nowadays and the continuous decline of software quality. A lot of UI/UX problems were effectively solved 20 years ago.

    The problem is that since then technology shifted from a tool to help the user achieve a certain task to an ad delivery vehicle where success (and profit) directly correlate to the the amount of user time wasted, and it turns out bad UI/UX wastes more time and is preferable in such a scenario.

    18. CuriouslyC ◴[] No.45692684[source]
    This view is myopic and wrong. YouTube doesn't need a different format, it just needs a better algorithm and a better mobile client. Making a new format is ruining what is one of the most amazing sites on the internet.
    19. magicalhippo ◴[] No.45693776{3}[source]
    > My friends literally keep track of how long they've been away from shorts and regularly "relapse" into sinking hours into shorts "against their wills"

    Statements like this makes me feel like I'm a different species entirely.

    I enjoy a lot of YouTube content, I watch it daily. And some shorts are nice. But I've never ever had a anything remotely like a "craving" for either.

    What kind of content is so addictive?

    replies(1): >>45696716 #
    20. pier25 ◴[] No.45694541[source]
    Maybe but why make the experience worse for the actual users who are not abandoning for TikTok?
    21. pier25 ◴[] No.45694579[source]
    It used to be very good maybe 5 years ago.
    22. cholantesh ◴[] No.45694822[source]
    I think auto-translate applies to all types of video, though? I once clicked on a 20+ minute Luisito Comunica video and found him speaking in very weird, stilted English. Can't even remember how I disabled it but it was a surreal experience.
    23. array_key_first ◴[] No.45696536[source]
    You can absolutely argue with success. We argued with the success of Tabacoo and I'm glad we did.
    24. OneDeuxTriSeiGo ◴[] No.45696716{4}[source]
    > What kind of content is so addictive?

    It's not the content. It's the format. At least personally I find 99% of the content to be completely brain dead and un-entertaining however the format locks my brain into a "scroll loop" where I'm constantly subjected to new input rather than having downtime between videos to think "do I want to continue".

    This is worsened by the fact that shorts decides "how much you enjoyed the content" by how long you spend looking at it so if it's not something you want to be actively watching you are incentivised to quickly scroll to the next video to prevent the algorithm from filling your feed with content you don't even want to see, let alone enjoy.

    And a large part of this is that all of us (at least my group of friends who get stuck in shorts hell) have varying degrees of ADHD and while we function well in low-to-mid stimulation environments, the "maximum stimulation" design of shorts just short circuits most of the self control we have.

    Thankfully youtube finally introduced a "timed break reminder" feature which makes breaking out of that scroll loop easier but it makes watching long form content absolutely miserable. Like I set mine to ~5-10 minutes but that means if I'm trying to watch a maths lecture, documentary, etc then rather than focusing on the material I'm getting any flow I have broken every few minutes. It'd be ideal if we could set that to only apply to shorts and not regular youtube but alas.

    Like my ideal would be to disable scroll on shorts (just like I disable autoplay on videos) and disable looping of shorts as well. Shorts can exist but I want to be in control and not subject to a design pattern that just throws content at my face endlessly and mindlessly.

    TLDR: The design pattern of shorts/tiktok/etc is the issue and it's sapped away a lot of time that I would have otherwise put towards watching long form academic content like lectures or documentaries instead towards mindless slop solely because of the interface w/ the occassional sprinkle of content I actually care about.