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41 points cwmartin | 59 comments | | HN request time: 2.288s | source | bottom
1. syntaxing ◴[] No.45676438[source]
CarPlay is probably the top of my list of features when I buy a car. I can careless about performance specs after a certain threshold. But not having CarPlay would straight up go into my do not buy list (yes, I wouldn’t buy a Rivian or tesla either.)
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2. zjp ◴[] No.45676449[source]
That's a real dealbreaker. I've never seen an in-house media/nav system better than Apple's, and I don't expect GM's to be any different.
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3. al_borland ◴[] No.45676480[source]
It’s not only that, but your phone already has all your data. Calendar appointments, addresses of contacts, music, podcasts, etc.

Do replicate this, you’d either need to sync all of that to your car, or migrate to Google’s ecosystem… maybe both.

With the track record of automakers and data privacy, I don’t know who would knowingly do that. It also seems like a giant pain when nearly every other car doesn’t ask the buyer to make this kind of choice.

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4. jghn ◴[] No.45676535[source]
I guess GM won’t be my next car purchase
5. jbm ◴[] No.45676545[source]
I used to feel this way, but nowadays I've come to realize that Carplay's UX is inferior to my iPhone's UX on a mount. As long as I have Bluetooth or Aux-in, I'm fine.

(That isn't to say that I think GM will somehow produce anything other than a captured rent extraction tool)

replies(2): >>45676677 #>>45679376 #
6. arthurcolle ◴[] No.45676553{3}[source]
They will 100% reverse this decision. Surprising it made it past engineering strategy & leadership at a company as large as GM and that they would even float this publicly without the details... but this will be walked back.

How large companies can make it so far and still have such insane decision-making (management by instinct?) is so wild to behold.

replies(2): >>45676643 #>>45678291 #
7. HaZeust ◴[] No.45676574[source]
The only active-production GM vehicle I've had my eyes on in recent years is a c8 Corvette, so this news makes it a lot easier to justify a purchase in the previous-year models that still had CarPlay/Auto. What a strange choice.
8. kevvok ◴[] No.45676643{4}[source]
I think that'll only happen when and if the corresponding drop in sales offsets increases in revenue from the subscription services owners will be forced to use. When they announced this originally for EVs it was clear the underlying motivation was to convert owners from a one-time source of income into an ongoing stream by forcing them into a subscription model for features they would get from CarPlay/Android Auto.
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9. dangus ◴[] No.45676677{3}[source]
You might as well be making the “I’m okay with my 2004 Honda accord with a tape adapter” argument.

There is no cost reason to exclude the option. Even if I don’t use it, if I’m buying a $30-50k new vehicle it better have it, even if that’s for the sake of resale or future family members I might pass the car down to. My 2016 has it, why am I tolerating the removing of such a feature?

If you want unscientific evidence you’ll notice that the Honda Prologue (has CarPlay) outsells the Equinox EV it’s based on.

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/06/about-one-third-of-car-...

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10. ianburrell ◴[] No.45676688{3}[source]
Also, doing the communication would require cooperation from Google and Apple. Who have their competing systems, and don't want to cooperate with every car makers who wants to build their own system.
11. arthurcolle ◴[] No.45676703{5}[source]
I don't drive so I just look at the whole industry from afar
12. listenallyall ◴[] No.45676752[source]
I think this may be the dilemma GM and others are in. Given that it's a must-have, how much can Google and Apple charge the manufacturers for a license? $2000 per car? 5000? More? I dont think you can necessarily criticize GM's decision (and making a public announcement that all other car manufacturers will read) without knowing the upstream costs.
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13. tree_enjoyer ◴[] No.45676753{3}[source]
My Pre-Carplay car handles all of this (well, except calendar) just fine. It's all still handled on my device.

Additionally, even if Toyota were to get breached, they would not get my data

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14. ◴[] No.45676787[source]
15. olyjohn ◴[] No.45676855{4}[source]
I think it's hilarious that I can upgrade my 2004 Honda Accord and add CarPlay into it with a myriad of screen sizes and options, features, cameras. There's an entire world of car stereo / infotainment gear out there that is cheaper and better than ever. Meanwhile, everybody with their new cars are just stuck with the terrible built in systems, or can only upgrade with a $1000 worth of audio processing gear and multi-channel amplifiers.
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16. garciasn ◴[] No.45676862{4}[source]
I won’t claim to be a CarPlay expert, but it is my understanding that it just mirrors your device on the infotainment system of the vehicle.
replies(1): >>45676960 #
17. exabrial ◴[] No.45676879[source]
Crikey this will be the last GMC Truck I own. Zero chance I use any car manufacturers infotainment system
18. jbm ◴[] No.45676905{4}[source]
My "real lived experience" with a CarPlay device that I installed into my 2016 Toyota Sienna is that it was slow, annoying, and I actually removed it. You can have it for free if you are in the Calgary area, my email is in my profile.

The UX difference compared to my phone, and the change in speed / etc.. was infuriating. The experience with my phone was ALWAYS better.

An argument based on the desires of fiscally illiterate people with 19.99% APR loans on oversized cars would make more sense if I worked for an auto company, thankfully I don't.

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19. acdha ◴[] No.45676917{3}[source]
Is there any public data on how much those licenses cost?
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20. Jtsummers ◴[] No.45676960{5}[source]
Yes, it's basically just an I/O device. When your phone is disconnected from it, there's no data left in the car except whatever is needed for wireless pairing (if you use wireless pairing) in the future. With wired CarPlay, it retains as much as a dumb touch screen display would.
21. bigstrat2003 ◴[] No.45677001{3}[source]
Yeah exactly. My wife's Volvo runs Android as its entertainment OS, and I still choose to use Android Auto. Because my phone has my music, has the music player I like to use, etc. The car has none of these things. There is no scenario where the car's software is going to be a superior experience to plugging in your smartphone, IMO.
22. seanmcdirmid ◴[] No.45677009[source]
Unless you are Tesla, I just don't think you can do software well enough to forgo Apple or Google's auto stacks. And people will argue that Tesla isn't that great at it either, but it definitely does it better than all of the other auto manufacturers (disclaimer: I've heard, I don't own a Tesla).
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23. AlotOfReading ◴[] No.45677120{3}[source]
There aren't really any licensing fees for Android Auto. Apple charged a few dozen dollars for the right to produce a car with the integration, rather than a license as such. There's integration costs and hardware, so it's not free, but generally it's cheaper than the alternative.

Android automotive, the system GM is discussing here, is more expensive in every way than Android Auto. The reason they're switching is that Android Auto/carplay don't give GM enough additional monetization options for customers.

replies(1): >>45677278 #
24. tehwebguy ◴[] No.45677135{4}[source]
I don’t know but my best guess is in the low hundreds given the Vline sells for $679. Just installed one in a 2008 Lexus with a resistive touch screen and ancient interface, now I’ve got CarPlay.

https://gromaudio.com/store/vline/

25. Casteil ◴[] No.45677191[source]
Yep.

Manufacturers ditching Apple Carplay/Android Auto support will, if not immediately, inevitably pursue rent-seeking behavior in the form of paid subscriptions for services people could otherwise just have for free (and likely better) via phone.

26. listenallyall ◴[] No.45677278{4}[source]
Is it possible Apple/Google initially charged a nominal fee when the technology was brand new, and now that it has widespread acceptance and is mandatory for many car purchasers, they turned the screws and are now charging an exorbitant price?
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27. dangus ◴[] No.45677338{5}[source]
Yeah that’s a Toyota problem, not a typical experience of old wired CarPlay systems at all.

And again I’m not making some kind of pro-consumerism buy a new car right now argument, I’m just saying that in 2025 CarPlay and Android Auto are high demand features that a lot of people insist upon.

I’m not making some kind of profound statement on the state of the car industry or whether infotainment is too deeply integrated into vehicles.

I’m just saying if it was time for me to buy a new car I’m thinking twice about buying something that’s not giving me phone mirroring, just like I want my car to have FM radio even if I rarely or never use it.

28. laweijfmvo ◴[] No.45677344[source]
I have a Tesla. Fancy big screen, but one of the first things I did was stick an ugly phone mount right next to it. My phone has everything I need, which are mainly reliable maps and audio. And I’m certainly not paying for another data plan to use the same apps on my car when they work fine on my phone.
29. dangus ◴[] No.45677370{5}[source]
I think this is a negative recency bias, nobody makes aftermarket stuff for brand new cars because nobody with a brand new car is trying to augment it.

You can find infotainment replacement systems for more recent cars. Example: https://www.caraudiocoho.com/products/mazda-6-car-radio-mult...

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30. troad ◴[] No.45677436{4}[source]
> You might as well be making the “I’m okay with my 2004 Honda accord with a tape adapter” argument.

I love how authoritatively you say this, as though this is meant to be just so patently absurd it doesn't require any further argument. This is an attempted reductio ad absurdum, but the absurdum in question fails to actually be abusrd.

Not everyone wants to drop $50K every few years on some liquid-glass-operated subscription-based monstrosity. Some people much prefer cars operated by knobs and dials, that are easy to repair, and dirt-cheap to replace. It's simply superior tech.

31. realslimjd ◴[] No.45677500{5}[source]
Is it possible? Yes. Is it happening? No.
32. mandeepj ◴[] No.45677520[source]
> CarPlay is probably the top of my list of features when I buy a car.

It's so important and useful to me that I've been thinking of retrofitting my Corvette C6, either by jailbreaking an iPad or simply mounting it.

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33. yellowapple ◴[] No.45677568[source]
> In place of phone projection, GM is working to update its current Android-powered infotainment implementation with a Google Gemini-powered assistant and an assortment of other custom apps, built both in-house and with partners.

I guess I'll add that to the ever-growing list of reasons why I'll never buy a GM vehicle manufactured in the current century.

34. add-sub-mul-div ◴[] No.45677586[source]
My car has no screens and neither will my next one. I can't cut the tech giants out of my life altogether but I'm reducing my reliance on them, not increasing their use cases where I don't need to. I'm not inviting them into my driving, my purchases, my music listening, my reading, or any other part of my life. Good for GM.
35. AlotOfReading ◴[] No.45677610{5}[source]
It's possible, but it wouldn't lead to this kind of action. Automakers already have a way to deal with expensive features that are critical to a large segment of the customer base. They limit it to higher trims or select models, depending on the cost constraints. That's what GM does with ADAS for example.

They're eliminating phone projection entirely here, which means they think the feature is incompatible with their business model.

36. Quitschquat ◴[] No.45677637{3}[source]
Retrofitted my 2010 Tacoma beater because I can’t live without CarPlay
37. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.45677733[source]
> CarPlay is probably the top of my list of features when I buy a car

Do you own a GM vehicle? Were you considering it?

No CarPlay is a dealbreaker for me too. I’m just not convinced there are that many of us.

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38. olyjohn ◴[] No.45677760{6}[source]
Your link proves my exact point. You need some specific one-off gear from some no-name android tablet manufacturer that doesn't fit any other car. LOL@ this thing running Android 12, which was out of support in March of this year... Much aftermarket support wow.

The 2004 Accord has a DIN slot in it. Which has a myriad of options available for it, despite the dwindling aftermarket.

Have you seen how to upgrade a 2023 Honda Accord infotainment system? You can't without major work. You can use the factory head unit, and feed all the amplified signals into a $1000+ sound processor, with a bunch of other modules specifically built for the car, then run the speaker outputs out to some crazy-ass 8 channel amplifier (because more speakers means the stereo is better for some reason), then feed that back to your speakers. And then at that point, all you've upgraded is the audio, not even the head unit itself. And why does it even have a center channel again?

Also, people obviously care about what infotainment is in their cars, as there is a huge amount of people saying they won't buy a car without CarPlay. Sounds like people DO want to augment their infotainment systems. Nobody is trying to do it, because you can't do it. Imagine if you could buy the car you wanted, and install your own accessories in it.

39. teleforce ◴[] No.45677854[source]
+1

For me Android Auto is a must, it's a no brainer as a requirement for a new modern car.

For the Love of God, what the GM, Rivian and Tesla engineers are thinking by not including CarPlay and Android Auto?

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40. pbh101 ◴[] No.45678037{3}[source]
The number I’ve seen is that CarPlay specifically is in the top ~2 prios for 79% of new car shoppers in the US. I think there’s probably enough mass here, and GM doesn’t have the niche EV/SW cachet that Rivian and Tesla have despite lacking CarPlay so I don’t think this will go well for them.
41. AlotOfReading ◴[] No.45678042{3}[source]
It's basically the feature to a huge number of consumers. Various numbers I've seen place not having it as a dealbreaker for somewhere between 15% to 80% of buyers, especially the younger ones. It's more important than virtually any other feature you can name.
replies(1): >>45678108 #
42. FloatArtifact ◴[] No.45678072[source]
Dumb question, but do you think they're trying to monetize the data?
replies(1): >>45678248 #
43. ryandrake ◴[] No.45678108{4}[source]
Wild how different people’s expectations can be. I’ve never even owned a car with any of these systems, yet they’re dealbreakers for others. Not saying they’re good or bad, just remarking on how something one person has never even thought about could be an absolute requirement for someone else!
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44. AlotOfReading ◴[] No.45678168{5}[source]
It's surprisingly common. A lot of standard features (reclining seats, AC, large fuel tanks, back seats, large trunks, fuel efficiency) aren't important to all buyers, but they're important to some buyers. Over time they creep into the standard feature set as manufacturers design new models because the economies of scale from additional customers and a simpler production line outweigh the additional costs.
45. dpark ◴[] No.45678192{5}[source]
It’s definitely about expectations. I suspect that a lot of people, once they’ve used CarPlay or (presumably) android auto, would find it very difficult to go back to the experience that the typical car manufacturer is shipping.

I’ve never used a car that I was impressed with the built-in navigation or anything else that I might otherwise do on the phone. Aside from Google and Apple just shipping more polished products in general than the teams that seem to be building infotainment systems, the specific phone integration also makes a lot of stuff easier. Yes, I can use voice to ask Siri to do something. But I can also just use my phone to type in an address or whatever else. I cannot do that with Chevy’s built-in system. I also frankly don’t want to pay Chevy or any other car manufacturer a subscription fee for up-to-date maps or traffic that my phone has already.

46. throwawayimnew ◴[] No.45678213[source]
Just recently bought a Polestar because: 1) Yes CarPlay, 2) No Elon
47. hnburnsy ◴[] No.45678248[source]
Yes, three ways minimum for GM to monetize this: subscriptions for features, telematics data gathering, ad and app revenue from third parties.
48. bizzletk ◴[] No.45678291{4}[source]
If you have 100% confidence about this, you could make a lot of money on betting platforms like Polymarket.

I'm sure someone would take the other side of your odds, and if you're right, you win.

replies(1): >>45679100 #
49. sixothree ◴[] No.45678351[source]
Imagine how awful these interfaces will stand up to the test of time. I seriously doubt they will be getting meaningful updates in 10 years.
replies(1): >>45679061 #
50. izacus ◴[] No.45678410{5}[source]
No, they did not.
51. tonyedgecombe ◴[] No.45678867[source]
>I can careless about performance specs after a certain threshold.

Don't you mean couldn't?

52. beAbU ◴[] No.45678908{3}[source]
Make it a paid upgrade and let the market sort itself out.
53. dramm ◴[] No.45679032[source]
Carplay is absolutely a requirement for me for any purchase. Mmmm maybe Barra knows something special about typical GM purchasers, or maybe she is just loony tunes nuts.
54. janwl ◴[] No.45679061{3}[source]
What are the chances phones in 10 years won’t be able to connect to the cars with CarPlay or Android auto from today.
replies(1): >>45679088 #
55. rkomorn ◴[] No.45679088{4}[source]
Definitely not zero (unfortunately).
56. nwienert ◴[] No.45679100{5}[source]
Not really, you’d have to pick a time frame and beyond a couple years not many will be willing.
57. pjmlp ◴[] No.45679363{3}[source]
Nothing, this is obviously a management decision.
58. pjmlp ◴[] No.45679376{3}[source]
Same here in regards to Android.

I only care about bluetooth for music and handling phone calls, don't get the point why having the actual car dashboard show phone stuff that relevant.